Iraq said get out. We need to get out. Otherwise it is an occupation.

[CharlesDavenport]

Love the response to Iran, but do not love the response to Iraq asking us to leave. They are a sovereign nation and if they tell us to get, we need to get.

If we stay after they tell us to leave, that is an occupation IMO. I do not like our position here. Get the **** out.

 

[Sarge]

I would not be hurt in the least by a complete withdrawal from the ME. Been there damn near 20 years straight, lost a lot of good men and women, wasted a ton of money. Bring our troops home and let them go on murdering each other.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I would not be hurt in the least by a complete withdrawal from the ME. Been there damn near 20 years straight, lost a lot of good men and women, wasted a ton of money. Bring our troops home and let them go on murdering each other.

Drill for our own oil wherever it is found and tell the ME to **** off.

 

[Sarge]

Drill for our own oil wherever it is found and tell the ME to **** off.

We can pretty much do that now. However all oil is tied together globally in the market, so unfortunately we take it in the *** on gas prices any time a camel farts over there.

But as far as withdrawing, I mean, it is time. What are we accomplishing, really? Are we really fighting terrorism?

Our equipment is showing the strain of nearly 20 consecutive years at war and so are our Soldiers. It's time for it to end.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

My issue is we were only asked to leave by the Shiite dominated parliament and they tend to favor Iran as well as the fact it was a non binding resolution.

 

[Sarge]

My issue is we were only asked to leave by the Shiite dominated parliament and they tend to favor Iran as well as the fact it was a non binding resolution.

This is true. Still, I can't help but think that there is not much of a mission there to justify a large presence. I know we had been training the Iraqi "Army" but even that program has been suspended indefinitely. So you end up with mission creep, and that is not a good thing.

 

[Djfan]

I don't mind leaving really, but I would only be in favor of it if our national policy on terrorism would be one of very quick, deeply costly pinpoint bombing if they rattle their sabres our way. No more negotiation. No more imposing financial sanctions, etc. Just blow the barbarians up. Then stand back and see what choices they make. Tired of appeasement and anything else that lets these known terrorists thrive.

There are real citizens over there. Like us, most of them just want to be with their families and do life. It's the idealistic thugs that ruin it for them. When they get out of hand, hit them hard. Then say "Are you ready to behave yourselves again?" and give them a chance to.

 

[SteelChip]

I would not be hurt in the least by a complete withdrawal from the ME. Been there damn near 20 years straight, lost a lot of good men and women, wasted a ton of money. Bring our troops home and let them go on murdering each other.

Gettin' out is long overdue imo but there is Trump's objection to consider and it's a valid point to us frugalists. Billions and billions of dollars have been spent on military bases and infrastructure. He wants reimbursed for all that. It's not like the Iraqis can't afford it.

I was thinking at first that there were maybe three or four bases...LOL.....dream on boy! I'm sure most of these bases are long gone but the US military doesn't just slap a couple tents up when they hunker down. There is damn sure a **** ton of "stuff" over there that them terrorist ******** would love to lay claim to and we wouldn't want to spend the time and money to haul away, fortifications not withstanding.

The US military presence in Iraq has fluctuated greatly since the 2003 invasion. At its height, the US had 170,000 troops in Iraq. In 2011, former President Barack Obama withdrew US forces from the country. In 2014, around 5,000 troops were deployed to Iraq at the request of the Iraqi government who sought US assistance in the fight against ISIS. Troop levels have been roughly the same since.

Here's what we had at the peak.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_..._in_Iraq_during_Operation_Iraqi_Freedom_(OIF)

and what we still have now...active

Al-Anbar Governorate. Al Asad Airbase. Camp Habbaniyah.
Baghdad Governorate. Camp Taji. Camp Victory.
Duhok Governorate. Atrush Field.
Erbil Governorate. Bashur near Harir. Erbil International Airport. Harir.

and total with remains..

https://militarybases.com/overseas/iraq/

Let's get out but let's be smart about it.

 

[Vader]

I'm sick of being the world's policeman. Get out of the ME now. They are nothing more than human targets for nutty Muslims to pick off. We have the mightiest Air Force known to man. If we need to get someone we can reach out and touch them. There is no reason to leave our soldiers in harms way now.

Just ask yourself a question. Do the bad guys want our soldiers there? Yes, they do. That's how they can kill Americans. That's why we've been at war for almost 20 years. It never ends. There is never a "good" time to leave. You just have to do it.

 

[Sarge]

I was thinking at first that there were maybe three or four bases...LOL.....dream on boy! I'm sure most of these bases are long gone but the US military doesn't just slap a couple tents up when they hunker down. There is damn sure a **** ton of "stuff" over there that them terrorist ******** would love to lay claim to and we wouldn't want to spend the time and money to haul away, fortifications not withstanding.

Let's get out but let's be smart about it.

When I was in Afghanistan in 2011-2012, the draw down in Afghanistan was well underway. Basically what we did there was the Army units that were occupying a particular FOB would clear out all the things they were taking home. We would go in with our helicopters and get the personnel out. Then the air force would come along and bomb the living **** out of the place so there was nothing left for the bad guys.

There are two notable exceptions that I am aware of aside from the bases that are still operating.

1) FOB Shank. We constructed a large airfield with a great runway, but the vast majority of the structures were not hardened, meaning nothing made of reinforced concrete. Just wood and tents mostly. We took all of the equipment, left the runway, tents and structures. After it was emptied out of all things American, the local Afghani's went in there stripped the installation of anything made of copper. Wiring, parts of the air conditioners, etc. It would cost so much to get it back up and running that the Army actually constructed a new, smaller FOB just outside of FOB Shank, it is called FOB Dahlke.

2) The other is FOB Salerno. That is where I served in 2011-2012. We turned it over to the ANA in 2013, and to my knowledge they are still operating it to this day. There has been talk of putting American forces back on Salerno, as FOB Chapman (the CIA's main base) is about a mile away, if that. So far, they haven't put Americans back there, but it is still largely intact, to include the trauma center. I think it was spared as a contingency for future operations.

But yeah, anything we don't want and don't want the bad guys to have is destroyed. They don't leave anything of strategic value to the bad guys.

 

[Steelr4evr]

I am all for getting out of the middle east. I would make it very clear if we are ever attacked again that we would wipe everyone out. Done. Over. Even if we actually wouldn't destroy everyone. They at least need to believe it.


They can go back to killing each other like they've done for thousands of years. We don't need to help them with that. Maybe one day they'll step out of the 7th century.


We don't need their oil either. So they can pretty much **** off.

 

[Vader]

I am all for getting out of the middle east. I would make it very clear if we are ever attacked again that we would wipe everyone out. Done. Over. Even if we actually wouldn't destroy everyone. They at least need to believe it.


They can go back to killing each other like they've done for thousands of years. We don't need to help them with that. Maybe one day they'll step out of the 7th century.


We don't need their oil either. So they can pretty much **** off.

I agree. But you don't need to kill or even bluff killing everyone. Tell them if we get hit we'll take out whomever is responsible and as many of them as we feel necessary. The taliban could have been bombed into dust. Then warn them that if they do anything again "bombs away". They are trying to draw us into a war that we can't win.

 

[BLITZ]

I know this isn't the popular thought, but I think we should get out of everywhere. Get all troops home. stop giving aid . focus on us for a few years. Stop giving aid, we could pay off our debt, rebuild our roads/bridges and still have $$ left over.

 

[Steeler]

Yes I'm all for getting out. What we have learned from this mess is that those people just aren't ready to live in a democratic society. They are barbaric corrupt Neanderthals. Harsh but true.
Get out, but if your people **** with our assets, we will hit you hard.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

I’ll say it again S I did in the other threads. Leave. Take our troops, our equipment, and the billions we give them. Let Israel and Saudi’s handle it. O, when it breaches Europe well you got it right? You know, cause you back us so well right now

If it dares come on our door again, light them up from orbit. Space force. No more money no more American lives. Just orbital death.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I know this isn't the popular thought, but I think we should get out of everywhere. Get all troops home. stop giving aid . focus on us for a few years. Stop giving aid, we could pay off our debt, rebuild our roads/bridges and still have $$ left over.

I wouldn’t say that’s unpopular. Helped Trump get elected.

 

[BLITZ]

I wouldn’t say that’s unpopular. Helped Trump get elected.

most peeps seem to think us being in the M.E. helps eliminate bad guys. I get the idea behind it. but the bad guys tend to hit people in the M.E. or Europe. 9/11 was horrible and I hope something like that never happens on our soil again, but we are not as naïve as we were on 9/10/2001

Get all our troops home. stop giving billions of $$$ to other countries, even our allies. focus on making us stronger. in just a few years we could eliminate our national debt. fix our infrastructure, make us safer.

The whole Ukraine deal should never have happened. 400 mill aid could have been better used here in he usa

 

[CharlesDavenport]

most peeps seem to think us being in the M.E. helps eliminate bad guys. I get the idea behind it. but the bad guys tend to hit people in the M.E. or Europe. 9/11 was horrible and I hope something like that never happens on our soil again, but we are not as naïve as we were on 9/10/2001

Get all our troops home. stop giving billions of $$$ to other countries, even our allies. focus on making us stronger. in just a few years we could eliminate our national debt. fix our infrastructure, make us safer.

The whole Ukraine deal should never have happened. 400 mill aid could have been better used here in he usa

I think most Trump voters call bullshit on the whole kill them over there or they will come here. Trump just demonstrated that we don't need troops on the ground in the region to take them out. We don't need their oil anymore (yuge). No reason to have soldiers in harms way over there anymore - if there ever was. We don't really need regional ground forces anywhere anymore. There is no ground war I can anticipate where we should engage. Bring em all home and let the ******** do whatever. Spend the money on better long range weapons and space force.

 

[BLITZ]

Agreed with everything you said. But again Ukraine 400 mill deal should never have happened. 3 years in to trump presidency and we still give that amount away. Just should not happen

 

[steel dino]

I am all for getting out of the middle east. I would make it very clear if we are ever attacked again that we would wipe everyone out. Done. Over. Even if we actually wouldn't destroy everyone. They at least need to believe it.


They can go back to killing each other like they've done for thousands of years. We don't need to help them with that. Maybe one day they'll step out of the 7th century.


We don't need their oil either. So they can pretty much **** off.

walk softly but carry a big stick.

 

[Djfan]

One thing seemingly ignored in this discussion so far - These types of military actions are helpful to us to learn new technologies and to keep our military sharp.

Not saying that I like that, but it's an historically proven approach.

 

[deljzc]

I am one of the few people here that still stands by the decision to invade Iraq, I think it was the correct choice but implemented horribly.

Since 2003, the philosophical goals of the war and tactical decisions, from President to President, from General to General has really been the reason for its failures. We can debate that in much more detail if anyone would like.

But the fact also remains that the lasse faire approach that was seen by this country from 1993-2001 under Clinton (where we had very little involvment in the Middle East at all) did not work either. The philophy of "letting the arabs fight among themselves" has not worked because it is proven, based on the terrorist attacks from 1993-2001 up to events of 9-11, that when given time and relative peace, they will plan and execute terrorist attacks on western targets.

One of my main reasons to support the invasion of Iraq and keep LOTS of boots on the ground in the Middle East has long been the concept of giving terrorist extremists a MILITARY target rather than a CIVILIAN target. Yes, troops will die during this era, although hopefully it is few and far between as we learn and understand how to defend ourselves. But by giving extremists in the region closer targets, they will be much less likely (other than rogue lone wolves) to plan massive attacks on western culture.

I just don't support "leaving". Maybe ever. If we can keep 30,000 troops in South Korea and 40,000 in Germany, we can keep 25,000 troops at high-tech, high-end, permanent military bases in Iraq. Unfortunately, we allowed Iraq's government to turn into a proxy Sharia Law, Shiite state supported and propped up by Iran. It's not at the level of Syria and Assad, but it's not as far away from that as it should be. So maybe we can't stay there anymore, despite it's ideal location.

We should have spent the trillions of dollars creating a true representative, secular government in Iraq. Moved most of our assets out of Turkey and Saudi Arabia (who are not good enough governments to be "true allies") and created a truly central power in Iraq that would get all the economic benefits of being the greatest ally in the region to Western economies (U.S. and European Union). This would have taken decades and trillions of dollars, but could have been achievable with the right leadership and foresight.

It's just too bad we debate leaving and are on the brink of resetting the whole region back to 1990 with the possibility of reliving everything that happened in the last 30 years all...over... again (including the likelyhood of a major catastrophic terrorist attack on western soil claiming thousands of lives).

 

[Vader]

The problem is that between 1993 and 2001 how many people did they kill? Now look at all the people they've killed since plus all the innocent people that have been killed. The idea that plunging the U.S. into endless unwinnable wars is the answer to stop the killing of ~3000 people is misguided. The lesson to be learned from 911 is that you don't let these people into the country. Not "Hey let's go into middle eastern countries so they can kill MORE of us." That's a horrible idea. Iraq was a huge mistake. Not just militarily but in the foreign policy arena as well. The U.S. has been at war for almost 20 years now. Both Iraq and Afghanistan are no more "safe" now than they were when the wars started. The terrorist didn't even come from those areas. They came from Saudi Arabia.

Not only that but Hussein was a hedge against Iran. We were able to fight a proxy war through him. Now it's possible that Iran and Iraq may be on the same side. Who didn't see that coming? I did because I knew the religious, cultural and political makeup of the area. It was a disaster and it was always going to be one. There was no way around it.

 

[deljzc]

The problem is that between 1993 and 2001 how many people did they kill? Now look at all the people they've killed since plus all the innocent people that have been killed. The idea that plunging the U.S. into endless unwinnable wars is the answer to stop the killing of ~3000 people is misguided. The lesson to be learned from 911 is that you don't let these people into the country. Not "Hey let's go into middle eastern countries so they can kill MORE of us." That's a horrible idea. Iraq was a huge mistake. Not just militarily but in the foreign policy arena as well. The U.S. has been at war for almost 20 years now. Both Iraq and Afghanistan are no more "safe" now than they were when the wars started. The terrorist didn't even come from those areas. They came from Saudi Arabia.

Not only that but Hussein was a hedge against Iran. We were able to fight a proxy war through him. Now it's possible that Iran and Iraq may be on the same side. Who didn't see that coming? I did because I knew the religious, cultural and political makeup of the area. It was a disaster and it was always going to be one. There was no way around it.

That's unrealistic. Who are "these people" exactly? All Muslims? 1.8 billion people around the world can't be let into America?

Look, I'm all for stricter immigration rules. I'm all for putting Muslims maybe "further down the list" vs. others seeking visas, temporary residence or immigration status. I'm all for a merit based system instead of one based on blood relation. But if we make a merit based system (and I don't know how a question about religion will pass Constitutional muster), that rewards the ability to speak English, the ability to get a well paying job, requires certain educational requirements, et. al. then many Middle Eastern Arabs will qualify well above Latin X applicants. That's just the truth.

If you think we can just put a wall up around America and terrorism like 9-11 won't happen again, you are living in a fool's world Vader. I'm sorry. I don't buy that for one minute.

The failure of 9-11 wans't "We let those damn Muzzies into the country". The failure of 9-11 was a lassai faire attitude of Clinton and not understanding our enemy even though the writing was on the wall (attacks in New York in 1993 and those around the world prior to 9-11).

What I learned based on the last 20 years is they are stupid. You give them a military target right in their backyard, they kill themselves like lemmings walking off a cliff. You let them "alone", they will plan and take the fight into OUR BACKYARD.

The point of being in the miliary is to protect Americans. I think that sometimes mean being a target rather than the sheep back home.

Don't do it half-assed, we really don't want to be here crap. Announce to the ******* Muslim world we are here and WE'RE NEVER GOING HOME and see what the **** they do.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Deljcz,

What did Iraq have to do with 9/11 and national security exactly?

Vader is right.

Hussein was a dictator, but his government was much more preferable to what we have now in terms of US interests.

It seems like Iraq's democratic government has been largely corrupted by Iran.