I also wanted Patterson. I'm still holding out hope that peezy can coach jar jar up. They say the biggest leap in performance ususaly comes in year 3. Still a little early to label him a bust IMO.
Jarvis Jones IS A BUST
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I also wanted Patterson. I'm still holding out hope that peezy can coach jar jar up. They say the biggest leap in performance ususaly comes in year 3. Still a little early to label him a bust IMO.
I hated the Jones pick, dammit. I don't watch tons of college football, but I saw him a bit at Georgia. I paid attention when "experts" started linking him to the Steelers. He just didn't do much in what I saw. But since we have no control over who the Steelers take, I try to get on board with it. Try to remain positive. Like I have said a lot, I don't want to be miserable before I have to be.
I am getting miserable now, though. Jones sucks, and it won't get much better. It frustrates me that my thoughts on the guy were right, and the pros ****** it up. I find myself getting pissed off just watching him. It isn't his fault. He just isn't good enough. It is their fault for taking him where they did. I begin to understand the frustration a guy like TMC or Vader feels.
I am getting miserable now, though. Jones sucks, and it won't get much better. It frustrates me that my thoughts on the guy were right, and the pros ****** it up. I find myself getting pissed off just watching him. It isn't his fault. He just isn't good enough. It is their fault for taking him where they did. I begin to understand the frustration a guy like TMC or Vader feels.
Howard Cosell in da hause!!!!!!!!
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one of these weeks i still hole out hope for greg lloyd jumping over the barrier and going down onto the sidelines, roundhousing that *************, stripping his jersey off and giving him another number. if he threw in a jack lambert "that'll cool you *** off" that would be even better
I don't see why not having the personnel should stop us from the 4-3 it does not seem to have been a detriment to the 3-4
The misery in the forums has increased over the last few days.
Alonzo Jr. lives.
sign Harrison sign Harrison WTF Harrison is washed up, he was declining when he left.
Sometimes players do not shine until their third year.
Jarvis was thrown into the fire, so we will notice the flaws quicker.
None the less. He needs to step up his game.
I threw out that Heyward/Jones incident in camp.
Let us hope Jarvis isn't a classic example of not enough effort or heart.
Not ready to write him off.
But while he is having growing pains. He doesn't have to be in there all the time if his game is lacking.
Rotate your depth in, see what sticks..........
Sometimes players do not shine until their third year.
Jarvis was thrown into the fire, so we will notice the flaws quicker.
None the less. He needs to step up his game.
I threw out that Heyward/Jones incident in camp.
Let us hope Jarvis isn't a classic example of not enough effort or heart.
Not ready to write him off.
But while he is having growing pains. He doesn't have to be in there all the time if his game is lacking.
Rotate your depth in, see what sticks..........
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Heyward wasn't very good his first two seasons. Polamalu sucked as a rookie. I'm not ready to call him a bust. Let's hope he shows something early on.
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I'm still hoping but it's not looking good. He just looks too slow and too weak for what we're used to at that position.
Jones said that he was going to dedicate the offseason to getting stronger, since he learned during his rookie season that his lack of strength meant he had no bull rush and was a limited pass rusher.
Looks like he has quite a bit of lifting yet to go. He does not challenge the tackle, walk him back, or take an inside turn during his pass rush. He just goes wide, every time. The tackle simply guides him a little wider, and the QB feels no pressure.
I was not one who hated the pick from the get-go. I thought he must have some pass rushing skills, given his work at Georgia. Those who watched a lot of film on him and checked his measurables pointed out that he was relatively weak, and definitely slow.
They were right, I was wrong on that issue.
Looks like he has quite a bit of lifting yet to go. He does not challenge the tackle, walk him back, or take an inside turn during his pass rush. He just goes wide, every time. The tackle simply guides him a little wider, and the QB feels no pressure.
I was not one who hated the pick from the get-go. I thought he must have some pass rushing skills, given his work at Georgia. Those who watched a lot of film on him and checked his measurables pointed out that he was relatively weak, and definitely slow.
They were right, I was wrong on that issue.
Yes he is and world's isn't much better.
T
TAS
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I'd respect Tomlin a lot more if he just cut his *** now.
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Bad drafting is killing this team right along with ****** rules of engagement.
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I thought maybe i was being hard on Jarvis so i re-watched and charted his plays. He was worse than i thought. Terrible against the run, made mistakes in reads. His pass rush was almost non-existent.
The eagles often blocked him with a TE or just left him unblocked.
He showed no pass rush moves. He either runs straight into the blocker in an attempt at a bull rush or he tries goes upfield and tries to run around the block. He is not strong enough to bull rush. Even TEs push him back. He is not fast enough to rush upfield.
He's always upright so he has no power. Even on a speed rush attempt, he's upright and this makes him easier to knock off balance.
You don't have to beat a guy clean to beat him with speed. You need to take a corner like a speed skater, at an angle. This allows you to have leverage and slip past a block.
I see no evidence that Jarvis is stronger. I'm wondering if his spinal condition prevents him from adding bulk.
Not fast enough to go around. Not strong enough to go through. That means he needs to have some great moves to get free and so far i don't see any. Maybe he's saving his moves for regular season but i won't hold my breathe.
Here's the breakdown.
First Drive
1 quick pass other side
2 pass. jones twist inside, handled by G
3 run other side, but peters knocked him backwards on initial punch
4 Run. TE blocks Jones alone, jones pushed backwards on run to his side.
5 pass on 2nd and 15. Jones stunned by Peters punch, barely rushes after that.
5.pass 3rd and 15. JOnes twists inside and is stuffed by G
Second Drive
1 read option. Jones unblocked flies in, misses tackle
2 run. Jones lined up very wide on the slot WR ball pitched to McCoy JOnes side, JOnes comes up to play run and is blocked by TE. Shady reverses field for big gain
3. Run. Jones is pancaked by Peters
4 pass. Peters handles jones, no push
5 quick pass to kones side. Peters cuts jones to create throwing lane
6 pass. Jones touches Peters then backs up, not even trying to rush. maybe he had contain for read option.
7 Pass. Peters blocks inside. TE is lined up in backfield and Jones has free run at him, pushed TE back a few steps. Worilds gets sack.
8 Run opposite side. TE blocks jones solo. Jones run after play from behind.
9 pass. Jones twists inside. stuffed by C
10 pass. Jones first move outside. Peters punches and stops him. Jones then tries to run inside but pass away.
11 pass. Jones tries to run upfield, Peters easily stays with him, punches him, knocks him back
12 pass. Jones lined up at ILB, Timmons at OLB. Jones has coverage. Pump fake right, JOnes bites, throw back left to Shady for easy TD as Jones gets cut by the C while trying to chase.
Drive 3
1 pass. Jones punched and stopped dead by Peters
2 run. jones rushes upfield blocked by TE, sees the draw, tries to go inside and is blocked by TE
3 pass. Jones tries to rush upfield, peters cuts him off, jones pretty much stops, not sure Peters even touched him
4 run to jones side. Jones goes upfield. Peters rides him out, Shady runs by
5 run away. broadcast missed beginning of play. Jones not involved
6 run. JOnes crashes down. TE rides him inside. Jones spins out and makes tackle on RB although the RB did get about 5 yards after contact.
7 pass. jones drops in coverage. no receiver in his area
8 pass. jones goes upfield, peters cuts him off, tries to go inside, jumps straight up, Peters shoves him backwards
9 run. jones at ILB. jones runs outside. Sproles gets nice gain through vacated gap
10 run, jones lined up inside. run up the middle, JOnes in on group tackle.
11 pass. Jones is stuffed by Peters. JOnes jumps up and Peters throws him backwards. What's with jumping? Desperation?
12 pass. jones goes upfield, peters cuts him off, tries inside, peters cuts him off
13 pass. jones goes upfield. Peters shoves him about 5 yards past the qb
14 pass. Peters stuffs him at line
15 pass. Jones way offsides. Only way he can beat Peters. Foles completes over Jones.
16 run. 1st and goal from 1. Jones single blocked by TE. TD Eagles up the middle.
4th drive
1 pass, jones tiwsts inside, handled by G
2 pass, drop in coverage. pass to other side INT by troy
5th drive
1 pass. jones runs staright into Peters, no push
2 quick pass. peters punches jones, ball gone
3 run. peters rides jones out of play
6th drive
1 run away from jones. he chases from behind
2 quick pass
3 Run right away from JOnes, but sproles bends it back. Jones is unblocked as the OL slants away from him. JOnes is slow to read the run, hops a few times and that creates the hole for sproles to bend it back. Jones runs after sproles, catches him and sproles breaks the tackle for a big gain
4 pass. jones goes inside, picked up by G
5 quick pass
6 pass. jones has sproles one on one. sproles burns him for an easy TD but the pass is overthrown. tough matchup
7 pass. jones flips to other side. RT cuts him off, jones tries to go around and is pushed wide.
8 pass. runs straight into peters, engulfed
Eagles Starters removed, steelers starters remain
7th drive
1 run, away from Jones
2 run, jarvis shoots inside the pulling LT and LG, misses tackle, big gain around Jarvis's edge
3 pass. jones runs into LT, moves him back slightly, no rush
4 pass. runs into LT, stalemate then jones pushed backwards
5 run away from jones
6 pass. Jones handled by LT
7 run up middle. JOnes blocked by TE. chases rb from behind, assists on tackle downfield
8 pass. LT retreats at snap for some reason. Jones engages 4 yards in backfield gets some push due to momentum but it then stopped and LT pushes Jones back. The RT also gives a ton of ground at the snap. Strange blocking scheme. Worilds gets off his block for the sack.
9 run. Jones in unblocked. Fake reverse action holds Jones for a second to allow RB to getr to hole. Jones moves down line and gets in on tackle near goal.
10 Run. Jones blocked by TE, completely turned Jones and drove him back into EZ for an easy TD for the RB.
8th drive - Steelers starters still in game
1 run, jones shoots a gap, gets pushed to the ground in the backfield, Polamalu shoots through for tackle for loss. I guess jarvis disrupted the timing a bit. Good play when you wind up on the ground?
2 pass, jones runs into LT, no push
3 pass, jones flips sides, drops into coverage, pass did not go to his area.
4 pass, jones runs into LT, moves him a step back but no rush on the QB
5 quick pass away from jones
6 run away from jones
7 pass, jones rushes upfield, LT is late, dips his shoulder and gets past him. QB gets rid of ball but first legit rush from jarvis and that slight shoulder dip is the first pass rush move i've seen.
8 run from 1 yard line. jones gets pushed back by like a 4th string TE or RB. Timmons makes a good stop.
9 run up middle for TD. Jarvis pushed back by TE away from play
The eagles often blocked him with a TE or just left him unblocked.
He showed no pass rush moves. He either runs straight into the blocker in an attempt at a bull rush or he tries goes upfield and tries to run around the block. He is not strong enough to bull rush. Even TEs push him back. He is not fast enough to rush upfield.
He's always upright so he has no power. Even on a speed rush attempt, he's upright and this makes him easier to knock off balance.
You don't have to beat a guy clean to beat him with speed. You need to take a corner like a speed skater, at an angle. This allows you to have leverage and slip past a block.
I see no evidence that Jarvis is stronger. I'm wondering if his spinal condition prevents him from adding bulk.
Not fast enough to go around. Not strong enough to go through. That means he needs to have some great moves to get free and so far i don't see any. Maybe he's saving his moves for regular season but i won't hold my breathe.
Here's the breakdown.
First Drive
1 quick pass other side
2 pass. jones twist inside, handled by G
3 run other side, but peters knocked him backwards on initial punch
4 Run. TE blocks Jones alone, jones pushed backwards on run to his side.
5 pass on 2nd and 15. Jones stunned by Peters punch, barely rushes after that.
5.pass 3rd and 15. JOnes twists inside and is stuffed by G
Second Drive
1 read option. Jones unblocked flies in, misses tackle
2 run. Jones lined up very wide on the slot WR ball pitched to McCoy JOnes side, JOnes comes up to play run and is blocked by TE. Shady reverses field for big gain
3. Run. Jones is pancaked by Peters
4 pass. Peters handles jones, no push
5 quick pass to kones side. Peters cuts jones to create throwing lane
6 pass. Jones touches Peters then backs up, not even trying to rush. maybe he had contain for read option.
7 Pass. Peters blocks inside. TE is lined up in backfield and Jones has free run at him, pushed TE back a few steps. Worilds gets sack.
8 Run opposite side. TE blocks jones solo. Jones run after play from behind.
9 pass. Jones twists inside. stuffed by C
10 pass. Jones first move outside. Peters punches and stops him. Jones then tries to run inside but pass away.
11 pass. Jones tries to run upfield, Peters easily stays with him, punches him, knocks him back
12 pass. Jones lined up at ILB, Timmons at OLB. Jones has coverage. Pump fake right, JOnes bites, throw back left to Shady for easy TD as Jones gets cut by the C while trying to chase.
Drive 3
1 pass. Jones punched and stopped dead by Peters
2 run. jones rushes upfield blocked by TE, sees the draw, tries to go inside and is blocked by TE
3 pass. Jones tries to rush upfield, peters cuts him off, jones pretty much stops, not sure Peters even touched him
4 run to jones side. Jones goes upfield. Peters rides him out, Shady runs by
5 run away. broadcast missed beginning of play. Jones not involved
6 run. JOnes crashes down. TE rides him inside. Jones spins out and makes tackle on RB although the RB did get about 5 yards after contact.
7 pass. jones drops in coverage. no receiver in his area
8 pass. jones goes upfield, peters cuts him off, tries to go inside, jumps straight up, Peters shoves him backwards
9 run. jones at ILB. jones runs outside. Sproles gets nice gain through vacated gap
10 run, jones lined up inside. run up the middle, JOnes in on group tackle.
11 pass. Jones is stuffed by Peters. JOnes jumps up and Peters throws him backwards. What's with jumping? Desperation?
12 pass. jones goes upfield, peters cuts him off, tries inside, peters cuts him off
13 pass. jones goes upfield. Peters shoves him about 5 yards past the qb
14 pass. Peters stuffs him at line
15 pass. Jones way offsides. Only way he can beat Peters. Foles completes over Jones.
16 run. 1st and goal from 1. Jones single blocked by TE. TD Eagles up the middle.
4th drive
1 pass, jones tiwsts inside, handled by G
2 pass, drop in coverage. pass to other side INT by troy
5th drive
1 pass. jones runs staright into Peters, no push
2 quick pass. peters punches jones, ball gone
3 run. peters rides jones out of play
6th drive
1 run away from jones. he chases from behind
2 quick pass
3 Run right away from JOnes, but sproles bends it back. Jones is unblocked as the OL slants away from him. JOnes is slow to read the run, hops a few times and that creates the hole for sproles to bend it back. Jones runs after sproles, catches him and sproles breaks the tackle for a big gain
4 pass. jones goes inside, picked up by G
5 quick pass
6 pass. jones has sproles one on one. sproles burns him for an easy TD but the pass is overthrown. tough matchup
7 pass. jones flips to other side. RT cuts him off, jones tries to go around and is pushed wide.
8 pass. runs straight into peters, engulfed
Eagles Starters removed, steelers starters remain
7th drive
1 run, away from Jones
2 run, jarvis shoots inside the pulling LT and LG, misses tackle, big gain around Jarvis's edge
3 pass. jones runs into LT, moves him back slightly, no rush
4 pass. runs into LT, stalemate then jones pushed backwards
5 run away from jones
6 pass. Jones handled by LT
7 run up middle. JOnes blocked by TE. chases rb from behind, assists on tackle downfield
8 pass. LT retreats at snap for some reason. Jones engages 4 yards in backfield gets some push due to momentum but it then stopped and LT pushes Jones back. The RT also gives a ton of ground at the snap. Strange blocking scheme. Worilds gets off his block for the sack.
9 run. Jones in unblocked. Fake reverse action holds Jones for a second to allow RB to getr to hole. Jones moves down line and gets in on tackle near goal.
10 Run. Jones blocked by TE, completely turned Jones and drove him back into EZ for an easy TD for the RB.
8th drive - Steelers starters still in game
1 run, jones shoots a gap, gets pushed to the ground in the backfield, Polamalu shoots through for tackle for loss. I guess jarvis disrupted the timing a bit. Good play when you wind up on the ground?
2 pass, jones runs into LT, no push
3 pass, jones flips sides, drops into coverage, pass did not go to his area.
4 pass, jones runs into LT, moves him a step back but no rush on the QB
5 quick pass away from jones
6 run away from jones
7 pass, jones rushes upfield, LT is late, dips his shoulder and gets past him. QB gets rid of ball but first legit rush from jarvis and that slight shoulder dip is the first pass rush move i've seen.
8 run from 1 yard line. jones gets pushed back by like a 4th string TE or RB. Timmons makes a good stop.
9 run up middle for TD. Jarvis pushed back by TE away from play
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This is actually pretty funny. I have looked at JJ on certain plays but never for the entire game. I will say playing against Peters you might find most DE's and OLB's struggle but your observations were comical especially when a TE pushes him back. I am not ready to label him a "bust" but the most I am hoping for is a solid starter he can develope into over the season. Never going to be a 12 sack OLB I know that and can live with that. But if he can be a Clark Haggans and get pressure and between 5-8 sacks a season I will be happy.
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He had 1 sack in 14 games so an improvement would be 2. He does not have the physical skills or potential to be an 8 sack guy. Perhaps 2 or 3.
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Haggans was a 5 second forty guy and he developed into a pretty good pass rusher. I know Haggans was like a 5th round pick and JJ was a first but my point is physically they are similar so maybe with some coaching and playing time JJ can turn into that caliber of player. I am trying to stay positive here people!
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Haggans had a lot more talent around him as well. This team is full of players that need better players around them. None of them are dominant on their own. My problem with Jones is that he can't handle a TE one on one. I'm at a loss at what can be done about it.
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One thing I have noticed is Porter and especially Gildon got a lot of free runs at the QB and a ton of mismatches on the TE and RB and those to me were always scheme sacks. The QB didn't know where the blitz was coming from so we'd have a mismatch and bam sack. Lately I have noticed we rarely if ever get those free runs at the QB and the only time a TE seems to get matched on an OLB is if it's a run or quick pass. I think with the new style of QB and the cognitive ability to spot the blitz and change the blocking and play at the line has really taken a toll on Dicks defense. I love LeBeau but part of me is thinking his zone blitz scheme needs to be updated if not completely overhauled.
