Johnny Manziel Loves Football...and Coke

[AggieSteel]

I'm so glad I've been able to maintain "football watching" as a stress-relieving hobby in my life, an escape from the realities of life that allow me to sit back, relax, and enjoy some good fun competition on weekends in the fall. I can't imagine being so serious about it that I try to lord over message board posters who aren't as analytical over the intricacies of the games and the players. It would just suck the fun out of being a fan. My mind tells me Archer has an uphill battle. My heart is biased and says he will be the exception. Why? Because he's a Steeler, that's why. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Vader]

It's funny when the Raiders use the #7 pick on a lousy football player just because he is fast. That is in no way similar to us drafting Archer at #97.

It's the rational behind the pick not always where he is picked. It wasn't just DHB that was ragged on. Of course that's the one you want to use because he fits your agenda. However they drafted speed in almost every round. That was criticized as well. It wasn't just one pick... even though I know you wish it were. They've been roundly criticized for YEARS for looking at only 40 times. Now when the Steelers look at only 40 times it's all good.

 

[antdrewjosh]

It's the rational behind the pick not always where he is picked. It wasn't just DHB that was ragged on. Of course that's the one you want to use because he fits your agenda. However they drafted speed in almost every round. That was criticized as well. It wasn't just one pick... even though I know you wish it were. They've been roundly criticized for YEARS for looking at only 40 times. Now when the Steelers look at only 40 times it's all good.

The problem is that only you see this correlation.

 

[Vader]

[/B]

The problem is that only you see this correlation.

If he ran a 4.5 would the STeelers had drafted him? Even with all his other numbers would they draft him 97th overall if he ran a 4.5?

 

[antdrewjosh]

I remember TMC and many on this board arguing over the draft pick. To say it was some kids for a short time is like the IRS saying it was 2 rogue agents in Ohio who did all the illegal activity. It's bullshit. MANY people on here loved the Jones pick. TMC was arguing with long time posters on this not a couple of kids.

Also I never said you didn't watch college football. I know some don't because THEY SAID SO. But I guess you know more than the ones that admit they don't watch it?

Just like many in the Archer thread who said that he would be a good player. It wasn't just "exceptions" to those meanies who thought Archer wouldn't make it. MANY people loved the pick. They talked about how fast he was, his great return ability and his exception vision. But I guess you missed that as well?

Damn you people have a very limited memory. All you can remember is the strawmen you set up and nothing beyond that.

So talking about what he does well is being rah rah??

 

[SteelerAl]

It's the rational behind the pick not always where he is picked. It wasn't just DHB that was ragged on. Of course that's the one you want to use because he fits your agenda. However they drafted speed in almost every round. That was criticized as well. It wasn't just one pick... even though I know you wish it were. They've been roundly criticized for YEARS for looking at only 40 times. Now when the Steelers look at only 40 times it's all good.

Sure, the Steelers ONLY look at 40 times. The intelligent, emotionless fan has spoken!

 

[SteelerAl]

If he ran a 4.5 would the STeelers had drafted him? Even with all his other numbers would they draft him 97th overall if he ran a 4.5?

How ******* dumb is this? If Big Ben was 5 feet tall, would the Steelers had drafted him? Obviously not, because they only look at height!

 

[Vader]

So talking about what he does well is being rah rah??

You aren't very bright are you? Do you not remember your own words?

Most posters you claim are Rah rah over Archer are not. Most took exception to the so called draft experts being all bent out of shape and saying he has no ******* chance of making it in the league

So you say "most posters aren't rah rah" over Archer. Then I point out that they sure acted rah rah over him by saying great things about him. People were comparing him to Austin BEFORE the thread even got hot.

 

[antdrewjosh]

If he ran a 4.5 would the STeelers had drafted him? Even with all his other numbers would they draft him 97th overall if he ran a 4.5?

At his size I doubt it. But that is not his only attribute. It maybe to you. But I see more. Still dont see how it compares to the Raiders and what they've been doing for years. They have drafted players way over their perceived draft value just because of their speed. They have done it for years. The Steelers drafted Archer right around where he was projected to go. How is that the same as the Raiders?

 

[Vader]

How ******* dumb is this? If Big Ben was 5 feet tall, would the Steelers had drafted him? Obviously not, because they only look at height!

You can't be this obtuse. Do you think the Raiders ONLY looked at speed? No, but you and other had no problem blasting them for taking "speed" only. Bunch of hypocrites.

 

[Vader]

At his size I doubt it. But that is not his only attribute. It maybe to you. But I see more. Still dont see how it compares to the Raiders and what they've been doing for years. They have drafted players way over their perceived draft value just because of their speed. They have done it for years. The Steelers drafted Archer right around where he was projected to go. How is that the same as the Raiders?

It isn't just about where they were thought to be drafted. They were blasted for drafting ONLY speed. Outside of speed what does Archer have that is worth a 3rd round pick? NOTHING. That's my point.

 

[antdrewjosh]

You aren't very bright are you? Do you not remember your own words?



So you say "most posters aren't rah rah" over Archer. Then I point out that they sure acted rah rah over him by saying great things about him. People were comparing him to Austin BEFORE the thread even got hot.

Now im not very bright. Smh. How is saying what a player does well being Rah rah? If TMC and other draftniks had simply said he has an uphill battle because of his size of would of said your right. No they didnt stop there. They proclaimed he has no shot at being productive at anything, will be broken in half, has no chance to return punts, cant catch blah blah.. why all because someone said they see some positives in his game. More then just speed.

 

[SteelerAl]

It isn't just about where they were thought to be drafted. They were blasted for drafting ONLY speed. Outside of speed what does Archer have that is worth a 3rd round pick? NOTHING. That's my point.

The Raiders overvalued speed to the extent that they took a player with the #7 pick that they could have had at #47. It's correct to laugh at that. But, again, that is in no way comparable to the Archer pick.

 

[antdrewjosh]

It isn't just about where they were thought to be drafted. They were blasted for drafting ONLY speed. Outside of speed what does Archer have that is worth a 3rd round pick? NOTHING. That's my point.

Thats the difference between me and you I see more to his game then just speed. And honestly I dont see how you can see just speed when you watch him play.

 

[Vader]

The Raiders overvalued speed to the extent that they took a player with the #7 pick that they could have had at #47. It's correct to laugh at that. But, again, that is in no way comparable to the Archer pick.

Seriously? Now it is "overvalued".. way to change the parameters. Yes, they overvalued speed. The Steelers did the same thing with Archer. It doesn't mean Archer just has straight ahead speed. It means they overvalued the speed aspect of his ability. They allowed his speed to overshadow his size, weight, injury history, fumbling problem and lack of experience at PR.

Thats the difference between me and you I see more to his game then just speed. And honestly I dont see how you can see just speed when you watch him play.

No you really don't. If he ran very well (4.5) you'd probably admit that it wasn't a great pick at 97th. But ONLY because of his speed do you think it was worth it. I've seen his tape NOT just his highlight videos. I've seen him drop easy passes. I've seen him not be able to get into position for a catch. But because of his pure speed all that is over looked.

Now im not very bright. Smh. How is saying what a player does well being Rah rah? If TMC and other draftniks had simply said he has an uphill battle because of his size of would of said your right. No they didnt stop there. They proclaimed he has no shot at being productive at anything, will be broken in half, has no chance to return punts, cant catch blah blah.. why all because someone said they see some positives in his game. More then just speed.

People said a lot more than "I hope he does well". Here are some statements from the Archer thread. Most take taken within the first few pages. This is well before the thread goes nuts:

“Again, the guy has Return Specialist written all over him.

Let's not pretend our return game has been anything close to par since ARE's production fell off.

This is a good pick, barring injury. Now, I can't defend the team not using him properly, but he has Devin Hester-like potential.”

“His measurable's are very similar to Tavon Austin. Except Archer is faster.”

“I think they want to use Dri as a slot receiver. Quick little slant passes. Goodluck trying to catch him after. The Pats ripped us apart and other teams using Welker for those quick passes and slow guys like Foot can't cover or catch them. Guys got speed, acceleration, moves and vision.”

“I like the Tavon Austin comparison as a slot WR & return weapon, and a "Sproles-type scatback" would be his ceiling as a RB. I don't care one bit how other "midget" players flamed-out in the past - be it Rainey, or anyone else. Archer deserves a chance to show what he can do.”

“Speed is speed...but hes doesnt have "just speed"...hes got Olympic brand (Chris Johnson class) speed. How many guys in the NFL have ran down 4.23 guys ? Prime Time ran a 4.21....Our fastest ever (Mike Wallace) ran 4.28 and Rainey a 4.37.....Im sure the coaching staff is aware this is a risky pick, but its a gamble they believe can pay off somewhere.

He is being compared to Austin, Chris Johnson, Sproles etc... **** he is the next Hester. He's Wes Welker. He's a slot WR. ETC...

 

[antdrewjosh]

Seriously? Now it is "overvalued".. way to change the parameters. Yes, they overvalued speed. The Steelers did the same thing with Archer. It doesn't mean Archer just has straight ahead speed. It means they overvalued the speed aspect of his ability. They allowed his speed to overshadow his size, weight, injury history, fumbling problem and lack of experience at PR.



No you really don't. If he ran very well (4.5) you'd probably admit that it wasn't a great pick at 97th. But ONLY because of his speed do you think it was worth it. I've seen his tape NOT just his highlight videos. I've seen him drop easy passes. I've seen him not be able to get into position for a catch. But because of his pure speed all that is over looked.



People said a lot more than "I hope he does well". Here are some statements from the Archer thread. Most take taken within the first few pages. This is well before the thread goes nuts:



He is being compared to Austin, Chris Johnson, Sproles etc... **** he is the next Hester. He's Wes Welker. He's a slot WR. ETC...

Thanks for telling what I would think. His speed is his most valuable asset. To take it away he is not a 3rd round pick. And once again we are talking 3rd round. Right where he was projected to go.

Youve seen him drop easy passes. Did you see him make any tough catches? Any catches? You seem him not get into position. Did you see him get into position?? Watching more then his highlights and you didnt see more to his game then just the negative you pointed out?

Put some names to those posters most dont post here on the regular. Havent been on since

 

[SteelerAl]

Seriously? Now it is "overvalued".. way to change the parameters. Yes, they overvalued speed. The Steelers did the same thing with Archer. It doesn't mean Archer just has straight ahead speed. It means they overvalued the speed aspect of his ability. They allowed his speed to overshadow his size, weight, injury history, fumbling problem and lack of experience at PR.

I have no idea what "parameters" you are even talking about or how they may or may not have been changed. The Raiders drafted a guy at #7 that they probably could have had at #37. That is a gigantic fuckup. The trade value that the Raiders flushed down the toilet is tremendous. It's absolutely asinine to compare that to selecting Archer at #97 (right around most projections for him)...plenty of punters have been selected right around that spot for God's sake...not to mention that we also got the other player we were seriously considering at that spot.

 

[Vader]

The Raiders overvalued speed to the extent that they took a player with the #7 pick that they could have had at #47. It's correct to laugh at that. But, again, that is in no way comparable to the Archer pick.

Thanks for telling what I would think. His speed is his most valuable asset. To take it away he is not a 3rd round pick. And once again we are talking 3rd round. Right where he was projected to go.

Youve seen him drop easy passes. Did you see him make any tough catches? Any catches? You seem him not get into position. Did you see him get into position?? Watching more then his highlights and you didnt see more to his game then just the negative you pointed out?

Put some names to those posters most dont post here on the regular. Havent been on since

Tibs did the last two. He posted many times comparing him (even did a chart) to Austin. Tim Steelerfan show a highlight video. Steel Not a player did one. Blitzburghv5 was one as well. Again I just picked a few from the first few pages. The entire thread is full of it.

Also to the point of did I see any good things. Yes I did. But YOU didn't see any bad things. That's the difference. I watched it ALL. You only saw highlights.

 

[Vader]

I have no idea what "parameters" you are even talking about or how they may or may not have been changed. The Raiders drafted a guy at #7 that they probably could have had at #37. That is a gigantic fuckup. The trade value that the Raiders flushed down the toilet is tremendous. It's absolutely asinine to compare that to selecting Archer at #97 (right around most projections for him)...plenty of punters have been selected right around that spot for God's sake...not to mention that we also got the other player we were seriously considering at that spot.

So you don't see any difference between "They drafted him ONLY because speed" and "They OVERVALUED his speed". You are the one who said:

How ******* dumb is this? If Big Ben was 5 feet tall, would the Steelers had drafted him? Obviously not, because they only look at height!

 

[antdrewjosh]

Tibs did the last two. He posted many times comparing him (even did a chart) to Austin. Tim Steelerfan show a highlight video. Steel Not a player did one. Blitzburghv5 was one as well. Again I just picked a few from the first few pages. The entire thread is full of it.

Also to the point of did I see any good things. Yes I did. But YOU didn't see any bad things. That's the difference. I watched it ALL. You only saw highlights.

Lmao i did not only see highlights. There were full games on other sites and youtube. I did not only see good. I saw negatives. The difference I see things that can be improved.

 

[Vader]

Lmao i did not only see highlights. There were full games on other sites and youtube. I did not only see good. I saw negatives. The difference I see things that can be improved.

You haven't mentioned one thing that he needs to improve. You've also never said you watched any of his games. I have said several times that he was fast and quick. Did you see anything negative when you watch him? I can't tell because you've never mentioned watching an entire game nor have you mentioned his issues.

 

[SteelerAl]

So you don't see any difference between "They drafted him ONLY because speed" and "They OVERVALUED his speed". You are the one who said:

Honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. You seem to be so desperate to continue arguing about Archer that you can't see obvious sarcasm. To be clear, the Raiders overvalued speed at times when senile Al Davis was making calls on draft day. And it cost them dearly. I don't think the Steelers are guilty of the same because they took Archer about where he was projected to go, and please let us know if there are other examples of the Steelers reaching for someone based on 40 times - it was a pattern with the Raiders.

 

[antdrewjosh]

First and foremost can he block. Can he catch the ball consistenly. Can he get open against NFL corners. Can he return punts because even though I think he can he still has to prove it. He is small. I know that..hopefully he does too and realizes getting down and getting out of bounds when he can is smart. Can he learn to read defenses from the slot. He as lot of things he needs to improve or prove.

All I said about him was besides being exceptionally fast is he also very very quick has great vision and balance. Showed soft relaxed hands when catching the ball. Things that are hard to teach. I got excited about how defenses will choose to defend him and how that will affect matchups for his teammates.

 

[Litos]

Back to JJ, in the previous board all I saw was cautious optimism, no rah rahs that I can remember.
Even if someone mentioned ROY I doubt anyone else could take him seriously

 

[Vader]

Honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. You seem to be so desperate to continue arguing about Archer that you can't see obvious sarcasm. To be clear, the Raiders overvalued speed at times when senile Al Davis was making calls on draft day. And it cost them dearly. I don't think the Steelers are guilty of the same because they took Archer about where he was projected to go, and please let us know if there are other examples of the Steelers reaching for someone based on 40 times - it was a pattern with the Raiders.

So do you have no idea or did you use sarcasm? Can't have it both ways sunshine. You know exactly what I'm talking about but are feigning ignorance. The Raiders were blasted because they "overvalued" speed NOT because they ONLY drafted speed. Of course you don't think the Steelers are guilty of this. You justify everything they do. So no matter what it is it's ok in your eyes. Again if not for Archer's speed he would probably go undrafted. He's small, been injured, fumbles the balls, has ZERO chance of being a starter, isn't a WR, hasn't PR and has no real position on the team. So what exactly did they value with him? Size? Height? Nope... speed. They valued his speed OVER everything else. I don't care if it were a pattern with the Raiders. It doesn't mean the Steelers are so far above reproach that they can't do it as well. And they have with Archer.