Mueller just dumped on Trump , clear as mud

[oneforthebus]

What's so confusing about 'not exonerated' Indy? It's simply DOJ legalize meaning Mueller found plenty of evidence of wrongdoing, but - per the Constitution - could not bring charges against a sitting US president. His investigation, the Mueller report itself and the underlying evidence are now exhibit A for Congressional impeachment hearings where the case should be decided, per the laws of the land.

"Did not exonerate" means "did not find proof of innocence". He doesn't need to have proof of innocence, he is PRESUMED innocent.

 

[oneforthebus]

Booker, Harris, Liz, Pete, Bernie and Beto have called for impeachment to begin

But Nancy??? Ummmmm, not really



Pelosi: "Many want to impeach Trump, but we need to make a compelling case" "Nothing is off the table" but stressed the need for an "ironclad case."


The pressure on her to impeach is skyrocketing, she cant hold out much longer

She knows they'll lose.

 

[IndySteel]

The real issue is what Barr did, inserting himself - in place of Congress - and making an ill-conceived call to claim there was no basis for obstruction of justice, and otherwise misleading the American people on what the report actually contained. That was simply not his call to make, based on Constitutional law. It was Barr, not Mueller, who acted inapproriately, and should be himself impeached for doing so. s.

Wrong.

Under the regulations that governed his appointment and now guide his final acts, Mueller is to provide a confidential report to one person only: the attorney general. The regulations, which were promulgated during the final months of the Clinton administration, do not contemplate any sort of report sent directly from the special counsel to Congress or the general public. To the contrary, the regulations call upon the attorney general, William Barr, to receive the confidential report and then do two things: First, to notify Congress of the investigation’s completion and, second, to provide an explanation for certain specifically enumerated actions.

 

[oneforthebus]

What's so confusing about the term 'not exonerated' Indy? It's simply DOJ legalize meaning Mueller found plenty of evidence of wrongdoing, but - per the Constitution - could not bring charges against a sitting US president. His investigation, the Mueller report itself and the underlying evidence are now exhibit A for Congressional impeachment hearings where the case should be decided, per the laws of the land.

The real issue is what Barr did, inserting himself - in place of Congress - and making an ill-conceived call to claim there was no basis for obstruction of justice, and otherwise misleading the American people on what the report actually layed bare. That was simply not his call to make, based on Constitutional law.

Why didn't he just say "We find that there would be enough evidence to charge someone with obstruction of justice were he not the president. Since we cannot charge him we recommend Congress initiate impeachment proceedings on the grounds of obstruction of justice." Quite simple. Doesn't say he's guilty, doesn't say he's "not innocent" just says he should be charged and tried.

Since I actually read the report, I'm aware of other legal questions he brought up in it that for whatever reason he didn't feel the need to mention today. Such as the fact that it's difficult (though not impossible) to prosecute someone for obstruction when there is no underlying crime. And the fact Trump wanting to end the investigation for political or policy reasons, rather than an attempt to protect himself from something, would be a proper role of the president and would not be corrupt intent. Therefore would not be obstruction of justice. He cited several complex legal questions that he did not want to address, and for some reason he's only focusing now on the "can't charge a sitting president" one.

 

[Tibs]

"Did not exonerate" means "did not find proof of innocence". He doesn't need to have proof of innocence, he is PRESUMED innocent.

I think it means the opposite. Given the framing of this specific & unique situation - where Mueller knew full well he could not bring charges against a sitting president, regardless of the depth or scope of evidence of wrongdoing, 'did not exonerate' means he found enough evidence that needs to be pursued by the body that has the Constitutional right - and duty - to do so. That being of course, Congress.

 

[oneforthebus]

I think it means the opposite. Given the framing of this specific & unique situation - where Mueller knew full well he could not bring charges against a sitting president, regardless of the depth or scope of evidence of wrongdoing, 'did not exonerate' means he found enough evidence that needs to be pursued by the body that has the Constitutional right - and duty - to do so. That being of course, Congress.

Why the **** didn't he say that then?

 

[deljzc]

I'm fine with whatever the House decides except talking about it ad naseum and investigating AFTER the investigation. They have 450+ pages. If they want to impeach, ******* **** or get off the pot. Quit talking about it like a bunch of babies.

I'm fully confident that if they do impeach they will not get the votes. And I'm 100% confident the Senate will not remove Donald Trump from office.

So who the **** cares at this point other than a bunch of whiny congressmen/women looking to media attention and sound bites? And a media that is looking for clicks and loves to run with another round of "impeachment" stories like it's going to happen next week.

Again, sky-is-falling bullshit from INSIDE the beltway. Ignore it. It doesn't matter. The Constitution is fine. The Country is fine. The branches of government are fine.

If this truly was a "constitutional crisis" partisanship and party wouldn't matter but it's not really a constitutional crisis and everyone here knows it. It's one party slinging mud at the other party the likes of which has been happening inside the beltway for half a century. Maybe a little more ugly than normal. And maybe against a sitting President that is certainly not "normal". But nothing bad is really happening (or has happened).

I think Tibs knows he is exaggerating the crime because he refuses to acknowledge that Obama's white house and intelligence community were just as corrupt. And the Republicans wanted to impeach Obama a couple times along the way too but he found that partisan I guess (unlike now, which is legit in his mind). Not to mention the constant investigations into Bengazi (which he complained about) or investigations into the Clinton e-mail scandal (which was criminal no matter what Loretta Lynch and Eric Holder decided) by Republicans.

Sounds the same to me. So **** off with your outrage.

 

[Superman]

two days after Memorial Day and, paraphrasing Dennis Miller ... I don’t think the Democrats have handled Hillary‘s loss as well as they could have

 

[Steelworth]

I'm fine with whatever the House decides except talking about it ad naseum and investigating AFTER the investigation. They have 450+ pages. If they want to impeach, ******* **** or get off the pot. Quit talking about it like a bunch of babies.

I'm fully confident that if they do impeach they will not get the votes. And I'm 100% confident the Senate will not remove Donald Trump from office.

So who the **** cares at this point other than a bunch of whiny congressmen/women looking to media attention and sound bites? And a media that is looking for clicks and loves to run with another round of "impeachment" stories like it's going to happen next week.

Again, sky-is-falling bullshit from INSIDE the beltway. Ignore it. It doesn't matter. The Constitution is fine. The Country is fine. The branches of government are fine.

If this truly was a "constitutional crisis" partisanship and party wouldn't matter but it's not really a constitutional crisis and everyone here knows it. It's one party slinging mud at the other party the likes of which has been happening inside the beltway for half a century. Maybe a little more ugly than normal. And maybe against a sitting President that is certainly not "normal". But nothing bad is really happening (or has happened).

I think Tibs knows he is exaggerating the crime because he refuses to acknowledge that Obama's white house and intelligence community were just as corrupt. And the Republicans wanted to impeach Obama a couple times along the way too but he found that partisan I guess (unlike now, which is legit in his mind). Not to mention the constant investigations into Bengazi (which he complained about) or investigations into the Clinton e-mail scandal (which was criminal no matter what Loretta Lynch and Eric Holder decided) by Republicans.

Sounds the same to me. So **** off with your outrage.

 

[Spike]

She knows they'll lose.

Biden just came out super milquetoast weak on impeaching, hes got his nose stuffed up Nancys skirt! What a wimp!

 

[Steelworth]

I'm fine with whatever the House decides except talking about it ad naseum and investigating AFTER the investigation. They have 450+ pages. If they want to impeach, ******* **** or get off the pot. Quit talking about it like a bunch of babies.

I'm fully confident that if they do impeach they will not get the votes. And I'm 100% confident the Senate will not remove Donald Trump from office.

So who the **** cares at this point other than a bunch of whiny congressmen/women looking to media attention and sound bites? And a media that is looking for clicks and loves to run with another round of "impeachment" stories like it's going to happen next week.

Again, sky-is-falling bullshit from INSIDE the beltway. Ignore it. It doesn't matter. The Constitution is fine. The Country is fine. The branches of government are fine.

If this truly was a "constitutional crisis" partisanship and party wouldn't matter but it's not really a constitutional crisis and everyone here knows it. It's one party slinging mud at the other party the likes of which has been happening inside the beltway for half a century. Maybe a little more ugly than normal. And maybe against a sitting President that is certainly not "normal". But nothing bad is really happening (or has happened).

I think Tibs knows he is exaggerating the crime because he refuses to acknowledge that Obama's white house and intelligence community were just as corrupt. And the Republicans wanted to impeach Obama a couple times along the way too but he found that partisan I guess (unlike now, which is legit in his mind). Not to mention the constant investigations into Bengazi (which he complained about) or investigations into the Clinton e-mail scandal (which was criminal no matter what Loretta Lynch and Eric Holder decided) by Republicans.

Sounds the same to me. So **** off with your outrage.

And just curious, does the report implicate Pence in any way, shape or form? Does the lunatic left realize that if they actually did impeach Trump, they're getting President Pence?

 

[Tibs]

I think Tibs knows he is exaggerating the crime

Nope, I am not at all thinking that, or doing that.

So **** off with your outrage.

Really? Seems to me the only ones outraged in this thread are the ones hellbent on blindly protecting Trump, and are unwilling or unable to participate in an adult conversation.

 

[oneforthebus]

And just curious, does the report implicate Pence in any way, shape or form? Does the lunatic left realize that if they actually did impeach Trump, they're getting President Pence?

Nope.

Nancy's looking at 3 scenarios: Don't impeach, and have the raving loonies screaming that you don't care about the law.
Impeach and lose, waste a ton of time and money in the run up to the election and have Trump once and for all "exonerated".
Impeach and win, run against Pence and the Trump economic record

They all suck, lol.

 

[Smash]

3 years into his presidency and he's had this probe up his ***. Think where our country might be without all this bs. Political timing after a fed holiday for mueller to grandstand, and the dims and their mouthpiece slaves on the evening news to start banging the war drums again. Kabuki for the dumb masses.

Time to rip the band-aid off of all of it. Declassify the fisa and unleash the hounds. Or be a one term president. Clowns in the senate should not be trusted if an impeachment trial gets through the house. They all have simply too much to lose if he and his agenda are permitted to march on.

 

[Vader]

Pelosi can't impeach and she knows it. And not just for political reasons. Because if a sitting president can be impeached simply by executing presidential powers then every president of both parties will be impeached for eternity. Obama could be impeached for covering up Benghazi. He lied and Clinton lied about it.. She lied to congress. The reason he can't be impeached is because lying to the American people is not a crime. There is no cover up because there is no underlying crime. Same with Trump. He can't be impeached simply because he wanted Mueller fired. He had every right to fire him especially after he found out that Mueller knew over a year ago the Russian collusion myth was a lie.

Nancy maybe forced into impeachment by her fringe left wing nuts but she won't do it willingly. She understands the implications of it.

 

[Spike]

LOL

Two years of waiting for His Lord Highness Mueller to speak....

And he says only Congress can accuse POTUS of wrongdoing, and dont bother to call me for more testimony, im not saying anymore than is already in THE REPORT

Hahahaha, now thats a kick in the nuts to the rabid moonbats in Congress if there ever was


Lolololololol, what u ******* gonna do now? Huh?

Bawk!

 

[Vincent]

Think where our country might be without all this bs.

We would be in a place the dims don't want us to be. Ponder that.

They all have simply too much to lose if he and his agenda are permitted to march on.

That, right there, is the essence of this whole sordid mess. That and that alone. The crimes that have been committed throughout this sick, sad saga, if prosecuted, would leave them all in a pile of stinking goo.

Some guy did something. Some guy OUTSIDE the very few that control $5T annually (ponder that) ran for president and beat them. That was his 'offense'. Nothing more. He beat them at their own game with his experience and superior intellect. And they call HIM the dimwit. Ponder that.

My earnest hope is that justice will be served, that it will damage the current 2 party 'system' to the point that the dims collapse, the repugs move further left to occupy the vacuum left by the dims, and that real people so disgusted by this river of @#$% rise up and take matters in hand. Wouldn't mind that the 'capital' be moved to another location and the swamp be drained and filled with concrete to prevent the filth from ever rising again.

 

[IndySteel]

I just love it. Mad Maxime is all “Peach-mint! Peach-mint! Peach fortify! Peach fortify!” The Left is totally deranged.

 

[Spike]

Pelosi can't impeach and she knows it.

Nancy maybe forced into impeachment by her fringe left wing nuts but she won't do it willingly. She understands the implications of it.

The rabid base doesnt care, they've been seething for two years, they dont care it gets no further than the House, in their eyes the public spectacle of IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS HAVE BEGUN!!!! will alone be worth it

The pressure on her to begin the impeachment proceedings is already skyrocketing, she cant hold out much longer or they lose their base support for sure anyway, if they DONT impeach, apathy will set in for the primaries with just the screeching radical leftists being heard

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I will admit that I could be wrong, not being Tibs and all, but if they choose to impeach to placate the far left, I think they lose. By lose I mean the independent voter, if such a thing exists, will see it as completely political and bias, and will vote that way in 2020.

House, Senate, and WH back in the GOP control. Then watch the meltdown.

 

[Steelworth]

I just love it. Mad Maxime is all “Peach-mint! Peach-mint! Peach fortify! Peach fortify!” The Left is totally deranged.

Lmao. TDS is real and it's a nasty disease.

 

[Steelworth]

Then watch the meltdown.

They'll give Chernobyl a run for its money.

 

[Steelworth]

And I think Spike is dead-on right, Pelosi won't be able to hold out very long with the mob foaming at the mouth right now.

 

[oneforthebus]

Honestly I hope they do. I want to see them try to prove their case once Trump is allowed to present a defense.

I can't wait for the "Well, he didn't actually fire Mueller but HE WANTED TO" arguments. "Well he didn't actually offer pardons but HE HINTED AT IT". "Well yeah there's no proof he knew about the meeting but I SAW HIM WHISPER IN DON JR.'S EAR ONCE".

The entire case is a joke, it will all be exposed and Mueller and the Dems will look like idiots. That's the real reason Pelosi doesn't want to do it.

 

[Tibs]

The Left is totally deranged.

Yeah, staunch leftists like Chris Christie - of all people - who raises valid points on Mueller contradicting William Barr - multiple times now - on the obstruction issue. Wonder why Barr felt compelled to lie to the American people, and to Congress? Wonder why Barr tried to short-circuit Constitutional norms? Once completed, his duty was to pass the report to Congress, let the chamber decide on Presidential wrongdoing. That is the law of the land which would lead to a proper resolution, whichever way it ended up. Obviously, it could lead to no further proceedings. That would be the end of that, and give Trump the closure he so desires. Or, it could lead to full-blown, televised impeachment hearings, which would be excruciating for Trump, to have to live tweet that, week after week. Nonetheless, by having the AG try to shut this down with a 4-page, cursory 'summary' and allowing Barr to be self-appointed judge & jury, they made the situation even more precarious for Trump. Nice try though, to get Barr to shut it down. It seemed to be working for a while.

"This was never going to be a Department of Justice or Special Counsel call...."




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