"Najee Harris ain't it". NAJEE 3.0 It's time to go, yo....

[Litos]

It's like some of you don't realize that this is a TEAM sport. I was the first person on this board to pimp out Bell two years before he was drafted. Bell had a unique ability to set and wait for a hole to open but he was able to do that because of the offense that surrounded him. Top 4 QB the best WR in the game not counting Sanders was no slouch either. There was also Heath miller and a decent oline. Bell didn't have to face a nine man box on most of his carries and Bell didn't have to let someone else get those carries when the defense was wearing down in the 4th QTR.

Ben and Brown struck fear in the heart of every defense they played which kept those defenses honest. I loved Bell as a player and was one of the few that even supported him during his contract BS, but what was Bells numbers when he left the Burgh. I'll tell you he averaged 3.2 yards a carry when he left and never broke 800 yards in a season.

Harris has played behind an absolutely ****** oline, absolutely ****** QB play and no receiver that comes close to what Brown was and faced a stacked box most of the time and when the defense started to wear down Warren got the ball. Najee is a better than average running back that if he was surrounded by better supporting cast could be an even better back.

some of you dumb ***** couldn't wait to see James Conner gone. he never broke a thousand yards here but how is he doing in AZ? The last two years he has barely broken 200 carries yet he has gotten over a 1000 yards both seasons and is averaging 4.8 yards a carry. Surrounding cast????

I swear there is just no pleasing some of you. the grass is always greener as far as players go for a **** load of you.

The RB position is a position that truly counts on those around him doing their job well, can anyone honestly say that Najee has been afforded that since he has been here.

I don't disagree, but for 9M a year if so much is dependant on supporting cast as you correctly say, then get a rookie and stay young at the position

 

[stillwright]

I don't disagree, but for 9M a year if so much is dependant on supporting cast as you correctly say, then get a rookie and stay young at the position

Harris' option was for $6.7 mill.

In the NFL today for a player that is basically your offense even $9 mill would be a bargain. We are signing 34 yo defensive players for $10 mill.....and $15 mill.

 

[NorthernBlitz]

Sigh...

???

Not trying to start a fight here.

But I'd be interested in knowing why the response like this?

Apparently, it's not OK to put links to other sites here, but go look at the contextualization that the Depot put together of all of Najee's explosive runs in college. He got big plays when he wasn't touched. On average, first contact was more than 10 yards down the field in these cases.

He's never going to consistently get that kind of blocking in the NFL. Because his college line was all future NFLers. 3x 1st rounders I think. Mostly playing against guys who didn't make practice squads. This massive talent imbalance is why I don't like college football (FWIW).

He's had almost 1100 carries in the NFL. I get that our line hasn't been great. But the argument that he never once got blocking good enough to get a 40 yard run is silly IMO.

Again. He is a good player. And he's had enough burn to understand what he is. A guy who will consistently give you average results. That isn't a bad thing. It's just not a thing that gets you paid. Especially as a RB.

He's Terrell Edmunds as a RB. Always on the field. Does what he's supposed to do. Doesn't make big game changing plays.

 

[NorthernBlitz]

Harris' option was for $6.7 mill.

In the NFL today for a player that is basically your offense even $9 mill would be a bargain. We are signing 34 yo defensive players for $10 mill.....and $15 mill.

His contract is for ~ $5MM with "up to" incentives to get to ~ $9MM.

My guess is that many of those incentives are "unlikely to be earned" incentives so they don't hit the cap this year. Unlikely to be earned incentives have to be things that the player didn't do the year before. Incentives for things the player did the year before are "likely to be earned" incentives. And they hit the cap before they are earned.

I'd bet that Najee will end up earning less than the 5th year option value. But we'll see.

The Chargers clearly don't have a ton of faith here. Since it's a 1 year deal. And almost half of it is incentives.

 

[NorthernBlitz]

Which is why I don't listen to them

Amen to this!

 

[Litos]

Harris' option was for $6.7 mill.

In the NFL today for a player that is basically your offense even $9 mill would be a bargain. We are signing 34 yo defensive players for $10 mill.....and $15 mill.

they missed that boat, was talking about free agency period. And again, those wheels have a lot of wear, rather get a new set for half the price

 

[bigben]

It's like some of you don't realize that this is a TEAM sport. I was the first person on this board to pimp out Bell two years before he was drafted. Bell had a unique ability to set and wait for a hole to open but he was able to do that because of the offense that surrounded him. Top 4 QB the best WR in the game not counting Sanders was no slouch either. There was also Heath miller and a decent oline. Bell didn't have to face a nine man box on most of his carries and Bell didn't have to let someone else get those carries when the defense was wearing down in the 4th QTR.

Ben and Brown struck fear in the heart of every defense they played which kept those defenses honest. I loved Bell as a player and was one of the few that even supported him during his contract BS, but what was Bells numbers when he left the Burgh. I'll tell you he averaged 3.2 yards a carry when he left and never broke 800 yards in a season.

Harris has played behind an absolutely ****** oline, absolutely ****** QB play and no receiver that comes close to what Brown was and faced a stacked box most of the time and when the defense started to wear down Warren got the ball. Najee is a better than average running back that if he was surrounded by better supporting cast could be an even better back.

some of you dumb ***** couldn't wait to see James Conner gone. he never broke a thousand yards here but how is he doing in AZ? The last two years he has barely broken 200 carries yet he has gotten over a 1000 yards both seasons and is averaging 4.8 yards a carry. Surrounding cast????

I swear there is just no pleasing some of you. the grass is always greener as far as players go for a **** load of you.

The RB position is a position that truly counts on those around him doing their job well, can anyone honestly say that Najee has been afforded that since he has been here.

1. You forgot to mention Conner had the same supporting cast as Bell.
2. Conner averaged 4.3 ypc in Pittsburgh vs 4.4 in AZ. Yards per touch is identical at 5.0
3. Conner had a better supporting cast in Pitt than AZ, Yet his production and efficiency is nearly identical
4. Najee hasn't had a good supporting cast I'll give you that, but in no world should a 1st Rd pick get outplayed by the UDFA journeyman 3 years straight.

 

[bigben]

I am just tired of 4 or 5 posters bashing a guy that gave 100% to the organization.

Statistics are facts, everything else is just opinion. Comparing statistics is comparing statistics.
It only feels like bashing to you because the facts do not and never have supported you're opinion.
1000 yards a season is a lame argument in a 17 game season when he has had more volume than everyone except Derrick Henry. Henry had 1200 more rush yards in 10 fewer games over the past 4 seasons.

 

[insaniti]

His contract is for ~ $5MM with "up to" incentives to get to ~ $9MM.

My guess is that many of those incentives are "unlikely to be earned" incentives so they don't hit the cap this year. Unlikely to be earned incentives have to be things that the player didn't do the year before. Incentives for things the player did the year before are "likely to be earned" incentives. And they hit the cap before they are earned.

I'd bet that Najee will end up earning less than the 5th year option value. But we'll see.

The Chargers clearly don't have a ton of faith here. Since it's a 1 year deal. And almost half of it is incentives.

That's a lot of assuming, especially when talking about a team that has the third most cap space in the NFL. I really doubt they are worried about 3.5m incentives pushing them over the cap

 

[NorthernBlitz]

That's a lot of assuming, especially when talking about a team that has the third most cap space in the NFL. I really doubt they are worried about 3.5m incentives pushing them over the cap

We'll see when the details come out.

Ultimately cap space should be used wisely. And they were hoping to have three very big contracts to do this season (Watt, Pickens, and a QB). Unfortunately, Pickens and the QBs we had on the roster last year weren't really worth of the big deals we had to prepare for.

I think the Steelers are also holding the line on not giving 5th year options to players that only fall in the playing time category (like Najee and Edmunds...probably Jones too). If you don't get a probowl (not alternate), I don't think we'll give you the option.

My guess is because you have to guarantee money 2 years down the road. And we have a pretty strict policy of not doing that for non-elite players. I guess we don't even know if they'd give an option for a probowl player. The only guys we've given it to under the new rules are Minkah and Watt. Both all pros at the time of the option.

But my guess is that we'd give it to a probowler too.

 

[jitter77]

Statistics are facts, everything else is just opinion. Comparing statistics is comparing statistics.
It only feels like bashing to you because the facts do not and never have supported you're opinion.
1000 yards a season is a lame argument in a 17 game season when he has had more volume than everyone except Derrick Henry. Henry had 1200 more rush yards in 10 fewer games over the past 4 seasons.

Statistics are factual numbers, but they are only a small part of the equation Warren typically doesn't run into 8 man boxes and most of our runs with najee are telegraphed. Under Canada DBs rarely even had to turn their back so you are basically running against an 11 man box. Warren is just not used the same way najee was so you can not really compare ypc

 

[bigben]

Statistics are factual numbers, but they are only a small part of the equation Warren typically doesn't run into 8 man boxes and most of our runs with najee are telegraphed. Under Canada DBs rarely even had to turn their back so you are basically running against an 11 man box. Warren is just not used the same way najee was so you can not really compare ypc

Stats aside. The tape tells the story with these two guys, its obvious to anyone watching and evidently the ones signing the checks.
Its also obvious to the 30 other teams that passed on him at 5 million.
Tape don't lie

 

[stillwright]

they missed that boat, was talking about free agency period. And again, those wheels have a lot of wear, rather get a new set for half the price

What about the aging defensive players we just throw boats of cash to?

 

[stillwright]

Stats aside. The tape tells the story with these two guys, its obvious to anyone watching and evidently the ones signing the checks.
Its also obvious to the 30 other teams that passed on him at 5 million.
Tape don't lie

Will Warren even be the featured RB this season? Speculation of the Steelers drafting a guy for that. Doesn't seem they should draft a guy going off of your narritive of Warren.

 

[Litos]

What about the aging defensive players we just throw boats of cash to?

well I'm not the owner, but regarding this free agency:
darius slay played head & shoulders (hello Troy P!) above all our CBs last season, it's just a one year contract and they paid about half of the top CB market, he's actually paid like a top 20-25 CB for this coming year.

 

[insaniti]

Will Warren even be the featured RB this season? Speculation of the Steelers drafting a guy for that. Doesn't seem they should draft a guy going off of your narritive of Warren.

Exactly. All these guys lamenting that Warren is the better back, and should get the volume workload that Najee got are going to be in for a surprise when the Steelers draft Najee's replacement and Warren maintains his role in the offense (a role he is VERY good at, and a role the FO and coaching staff are happy with).

Just look at the RB's that the Steelers have met with either at the senior bowl, combine, pro days, or scheduled visits.

Ashton Jeanty, Ollie Gordon, Jordan James, Kaleb Johnson, DJ Giddens, Quinshon Judkins, Jaydon Blue, TreVeyon Henderson, Omarion Hampton, Dylan Sampson, Kyle Monagnai, Bhayshul Tuten.

The only name on that list that wasn't the workhorse back for their team was Jaydon Blue. Even TreVeyon Henderson is that type of back despite sharing duties with Quinshon Judkins.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Harris' option was for $6.7 mill.

In the NFL today for a player that is basically your offense even $9 mill would be a bargain. We are signing 34 yo defensive players for $10 mill.....and $15 mill.

6.7 or 9 million would indeed be a bargain for an effective player, one could easily argue Najee wasn’t that effective. The dropoff when others carried the rock was minimal at best. RBs are a dime a dozen and I’m fairly certain you could plug around 30-45 different/cheaper backs (maybe more) in that role and get that almost 4 ypc.

One could also argue that a huge part of the reason the offense struggles (aside from the obvious Mike scheme deficiencies and subpar OL play) is that so much of the offense runs through the hands of a mid player.

As far as signing old defensive players are you embellishing or maybe I missed a signing? To my knowledge they’ve only signed 1 player to a significant defensive contract (Slay) and he graded out 7th in the league from the stat I saw on man coverage grade last year. That number would be better than his replacement and on a 1 year deal worth the risk for an upgrade that doesn’t even factor in the comp pick equation. If he doesn’t fall off too much that seems like a great deal to plug a hole.

 

[stillwright]

6.7 or 9 million would indeed be a bargain for an effective player, one could easily argue Najee wasn’t that effective. The dropoff when others carried the rock was minimal at best. RBs are a dime a dozen and I’m fairly certain you could plug around 30-45 different/cheaper backs (maybe more) in that role and get that almost 4 ypc.

One could also argue that a huge part of the reason the offense struggles (aside from the obvious Mike scheme deficiencies and subpar OL play) is that so much of the offense runs through the hands of a mid player.

As far as signing old defensive players are you embellishing or maybe I missed a signing? To my knowledge they’ve only signed 1 player to a significant defensive contract (Slay) and he graded out 7th in the league from the stat I saw on man coverage grade last year. That number would be better than his replacement and on a 1 year deal worth the risk for an upgrade that doesn’t even factor in the comp pick equation. If he doesn’t fall off too much that seems like a great deal to plug a hole.

Harris is what you want from a player on and off the field. I stated my reasons at least a dozen plus times. At even $9 mill a year what they asked of him would be a bargain. Plus add into his locker room presence. Wanting to be a leader. When as a team we sumply don't have one. None. Zero. A new team first culture could have been started.

Defensively I was referring to Slay and Cam from last year getting his 3 year extension at $15 per. Watt will also most likely get $40 mill plus.

 

[stillwright]

Exactly. All these guys lamenting that Warren is the better back, and should get the volume workload that Najee got are going to be in for a surprise when the Steelers draft Najee's replacement and Warren maintains his role in the offense (a role he is VERY good at, and a role the FO and coaching staff are happy with).

Just look at the RB's that the Steelers have met with either at the senior bowl, combine, pro days, or scheduled visits.

Ashton Jeanty, Ollie Gordon, Jordan James, Kaleb Johnson, DJ Giddens, Quinshon Judkins, Jaydon Blue, TreVeyon Henderson, Omarion Hampton, Dylan Sampson, Kyle Monagnai, Bhayshul Tuten.

The only name on that list that wasn't the workhorse back for their team was Jaydon Blue. Even TreVeyon Henderson is that type of back despite sharing duties with Quinshon Judkins.

And these same posters are talking about what Harris' salary would be. Warren is making all but $6 mill this season. I wouldn't be surprised if they extend him for even more $$$$$. And the dude probably won't be the featured RB.

 

[stillwright]

they missed that boat, was talking about free agency period. And again, those wheels have a lot of wear, rather get a new set for half the price

Warren at all but $6 mill eats up a bunch of that savings. Add in the guy we just signed that played for Philly last year....eats a bit more of that big savings. Patterson at $3 mill. He might get cut. Now add in the salary of the rookie. Yep. Multiple players to replace Harris. Savings might be there. Little if any actually.

 

[BLITZ]

Statistics are facts, everything else is just opinion. Comparing statistics is comparing statistics.
It only feels like bashing to you because the facts do not and never have supported you're opinion.
1000 yards a season is a lame argument in a 17 game season when he has had more volume than everyone except Derrick Henry. Henry had 1200 more rush yards in 10 fewer games over the past 4 seasons.

Well that was simple. Following what you said.

Bettis and Harris both had 3.9 yard average. That is a fact.

Everything else is ones opinion

 

[Litos]

Warren at all but $6 mill eats up a bunch of that savings. Add in the guy we just signed that played for Philly last year....eats a bit more of that big savings. Patterson at $3 mill. He might get cut. Now add in the salary of the rookie. Yep. Multiple players to replace Harris. Savings might be there. Little if any actually.

that's short sighted , what does cap savings have to do? Harris is older, more expensive and not an explosive player

Patterson is getting cut, what does he have to do with letting Najee go? Warren was already in the roster, you need at least two RBs capable of starting so he is not replacing Harris, at the end it will be the rookie replacing him and sharing the workload with your other RB.

So you keep Harris for 6M plus incentives, and let Warren go? You still have to draft a RB to be the 1b, but you now have an older RB with lots of wear & tear, that isn't good as a pass blocker nor as a receiver, nor as an explosive plays weapon and that couldn't get to the corner in any toss play.

Edit: when you talked about the eagles guy I was thinking Slay, forgot about Gainwell, that to me is nothing more than a Warren insurance in case he gets injured, he is not a featured back and I doubt he can't be easily cut.

 

[Coryea]

Well that was simple. Following what you said.

Bettis and Harris both had 3.9 yard average. That is a fact.

Everything else is ones opinion

And not one GM would take Harris over Bettis in their primes.

 

[bermudasteel]

???

Not trying to start a fight here.

But I'd be interested in knowing why the response like this?

Apparently, it's not OK to put links to other sites here, but go look at the contextualization that the Depot put together of all of Najee's explosive runs in college. He got big plays when he wasn't touched. On average, first contact was more than 10 yards down the field in these cases.

He's never going to consistently get that kind of blocking in the NFL. Because his college line was all future NFLers. 3x 1st rounders I think. Mostly playing against guys who didn't make practice squads. This massive talent imbalance is why I don't like college football (FWIW).

He's had almost 1100 carries in the NFL. I get that our line hasn't been great. But the argument that he never once got blocking good enough to get a 40 yard run is silly IMO.

Again. He is a good player. And he's had enough burn to understand what he is. A guy who will consistently give you average results. That isn't a bad thing. It's just not a thing that gets you paid. Especially as a RB.

He's Terrell Edmunds as a RB. Always on the field. Does what he's supposed to do. Doesn't make big game changing plays.

I sighed because no matter what 'proof' is presented - some of you think every RB is supposed to be Barry Sanders...comparing Najee to Terrell Edmunds is, well, just asinine; but, it is your opinion.

 

[stillwright]

that's short sighted , what does cap savings have to do? Harris is older, more expensive and not an explosive player

Patterson is getting cut, what does he have to do with letting Najee go? Warren was already in the roster, you need at least two RBs capable of starting so he is not replacing Harris, at the end it will be the rookie replacing him and sharing the workload with your other RB.

So you keep Harris for 6M plus incentives, and let Warren go? You still have to draft a RB to be the 1b, but you now have an older RB with lots of wear & tear, that isn't good as a pass blocker nor as a receiver, nor as an explosive plays weapon and that couldn't get to the corner in any toss play.

Edit: when you talked about the eagles guy I was thinking Slay, forgot about Gainwell, that to me is nothing more than a Warren insurance in case he gets injured, he is not a featured back and I doubt he can't be easily cut.

Warren is under contract for one season. The guy from Philly for one season. Patterson for one more season. If we draft a RB....we have him four 4 years if he is drafted outside the 1st round. We won't have anyone under contract but them after this season. Yeah. I was being short sighted.