No losing seasons

[ark steel]

geez, ark, all of a sudden you wanna pretend as if it's NOT time to replace coach tomlin??? give me a break

it isn't "all of a sudden". I don't think it is time to replace him.

 

[Steeler Pride]

Losing Ben, complete, he may or may not get replaced by Rudolph or Dobbs. They might bring in a veteran for a year or two. Maybe that veteran wins a bunch of games, too. Maybe he loses a bunch. "Without Ben" can mean many things. What we KNOW without Ben is one thing. You guys want to pretend your conjecture is fact without actual evidence.

you don't have to like Tomlin, but you cannot get around that "Without Ben, Tomlin has a bunch of losing seasons" is pure conjecture (or wishful thinking) based upon no supporting evidence. In fact, the evidence available, suggests it is not true.

So the same conjecture that says if they Steelers fired Tomlin tomorrow, the Steelers would be 1-15 next season. There is no evidence that Tomlin would have had winning seasons without Ben because he has NEVER had a season without Ben. Having a back-up play 1-2 games here and there is not the same as losing your starting QB for the season. There is absolutely no evidence that shows Tomlin would be successful without Ben, but there is plenty of evidence that shows that when we have to rely on Dobbs, Vick, Jones, Leftwich...etc. that we are not going to win more than half of our games at best, and most of those wins came when we had a much better defense than what we have now.

 

[Steeler Pride]

Not only this, but I do realize replacing Ben for a game or two is different than losing him for a season. But the reality is that, replacing him for a game or two with 2nd and 3rd stringers is also different than what you might do if you had to replace him for a whole season, or for the entire future. We don't know what that might look like or what the results would be.

The best option we have at back-up QB is Josh Dobbs...that should tell you all that you need to know about our talent evaluation at QB after Ben. The supposed replacement for Ben is not good enough to upseat Dobbs for the back up spot to earn a hat on game days.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Marty Schottenheimer also had a long streak of non-losing seasons. He was used for years on here as the poster child of mediocrity, but now matchig his record of non-losing seasons is some testament of greatness.

 

[Omar10213245]

it isn't "all of a sudden". I don't think it is time to replace him.

lol, why? you think he's "right on the cusp" of bringing major success to the team??

 

[SteelerFan448]

Looking through to see which games Ben did not play in, I see 17 regular season games since Tomlin took over. Steelers are 9-8 in those games. Unless I missed some, that shows winning games without the HoF QB too.

Somewhere Jeff Fisher is impressed...

BTW, how many of those games were against the Browns?

 

[ark steel]

Marty Schottenheimer also had a long streak of non-losing seasons. He was used for years on here as the poster child of mediocrity, but now matchig his record of non-losing seasons is some testament of greatness.

Yeah, "greatness". Exactly, what has been said.

No one is saying Tomlin is a great coach (Well, some might be). I think he is closer to great than he is to average (i.e. a good coach, overall). Just as importantly, I don't know who we could get that is "better".

That doesn't mean I don't think he has issues or that he is better than the precious Cowher, though.

 

[ark steel]

Somewhere Jeff Fisher is impressed...

BTW, how many of those games were against the Browns?

Two or three, I think. Why does that matter? Do we stop playing them when Ben leaves? Want to move the goal posts a bit more? Would it matter to you that 2 of those losses were in 2007 and 2009 when it was still "Cowher's players"?

 

[slashsteel]

Marty Schottenheimer also had a long streak of non-losing seasons. He was used for years on here as the poster child of mediocrity, but now matchig his record of non-losing seasons is some testament of greatness.

Tomlin reminds me of him.

 

[Drink IRON City]

ALL aside, on those close or "even" win years, how many sub .500 teams did we lose to??? Argument being if a NON-losing season is acceptable then the standard is set in mediocrity. The talent on THESE STEELERS teams have been greater than mediocrity and US fans rightfully can expect more. WHAT are we the ******* browns or something............................. I don't think many fans excepted MARTY as a great coach even though he was a non-losing coach.



Salute the nation

 

[ark steel]

lol, why? you think he's "right on the cusp" of bringing major success to the team??

I don't think you, or anyone else cares what I think about Tomlin. You have your opinion and everyone else is just wrong.

I, certainly, don't think we are winning in spite of Tomlin's ****** coaching.

Well, what do you define as "major success". Is it ONLY a SB win?

Is it "deep into the playoffs" whatever that means? What does this mean? You have the Wild Card round, the Divisional Round, then the AFCCG. If you make it to the Divisional Round, is that "deep" or does that only mean to get to the AFCCG?

Are we on the "cusp" of a SB victory this year? Doesn't seem like it. There were mistakes along the line (OAK game being the one that sticks out the most. There are other games in other years) that can be attributed to coaching. There were mistakes along the line that are just **** luck (i.e. Grimble and Connor fumbling away the ball in one game that Ben also throws a critical INT).

Do we make the playoffs this year? I think so. We have very little margin for error.

I don't think the "covering the WR with a LB" scenario is good strategy, but when I look at the SD game and realize that while, we allowed them to score 33 points, 14 of those were direct gifts by the refs. You see games where a team keeps a drive going because of a penalty and eventually score, but, rarely TWO TD's that are direct results of such obvious penalties like that. Honestly, on the missed False start, I think they still score a TD on that drive. At least a FG.

I don't think that many coaches can overcome two gift TD's whether it is something like what happened in SD or two pick 6's.

Then I look at SD's other games where they scored 27+ in 6 other games and more than 24 in three other games and no games where they scored less than 20. I assume those other teams are not employing the same strategy we are and, yet, get similar results. Maybe SD is just that good. My expectation is that, if we had employed a different strategy to cover Allen, then he wouldn't have had such a big night, but it is likely that SD still scores 24+ points. Giving them the other 14 as a gift, we still lose the game.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Two or three, I think. Why does that matter? Do we stop playing them when Ben leaves? Want to move the goal posts a bit more? Would it matter to you that 2 of those losses were in 2007 and 2009 when it was still "Cowher's players"?

It's the Browns. Not a win to hang your hat on, even with a backup quarterback. Very obvious to most people.

 

[ark steel]

It's the Browns. Not a win to hang your hat on, even with a backup quarterback. Very obvious to most people.

you just want to highlight that? Do we take those wins away from other player's or coaches? The real point of the question is "do we stop playing them if Ben leaves?" Of course we don't.

 

[Omar10213245]

I don't think you, or anyone else cares what I think about Tomlin. You have your opinion and everyone else is just wrong.

I, certainly, don't think we are winning in spite of Tomlin's ****** coaching.

Well, what do you define as "major success". Is it ONLY a SB win?

Is it "deep into the playoffs" whatever that means? What does this mean? You have the Wild Card round, the Divisional Round, then the AFCCG. If you make it to the Divisional Round, is that "deep" or does that only mean to get to the AFCCG?

Are we on the "cusp" of a SB victory this year? Doesn't seem like it. There were mistakes along the line (OAK game being the one that sticks out the most. There are other games in other years) that can be attributed to coaching. There were mistakes along the line that are just **** luck (i.e. Grimble and Connor fumbling away the ball in one game that Ben also throws a critical INT).

Do we make the playoffs this year? I think so. We have very little margin for error.

I don't think the "covering the WR with a LB" scenario is good strategy, but when I look at the SD game and realize that while, we allowed them to score 33 points, 14 of those were direct gifts by the refs. You see games where a team keeps a drive going because of a penalty and eventually score, but, rarely TWO TD's that are direct results of such obvious penalties like that. Honestly, on the missed False start, I think they still score a TD on that drive. At least a FG.

I don't think that many coaches can overcome two gift TD's whether it is something like what happened in SD or two pick 6's.

Then I look at SD's other games where they scored 27+ in 6 other games and more than 24 in three other games and no games where they scored less than 20. I assume those other teams are not employing the same strategy we are and, yet, get similar results. Maybe SD is just that good. My expectation is that, if we had employed a different strategy to cover Allen, then he wouldn't have had such a big night, but it is likely that SD still scores 24+ points. Giving them the other 14 as a gift, we still lose the game.

it's called context. when you look at the big picture of what this team has been, and the potential that they've not been able to meet, for the majority of coach tomlin's tenure, it's pretty obvious that it's time to find a new voice for the locker room.

 

[Litos]

we should already be in the playoffs, not needing to win out or pray for others to lose.

Tomlin is average and lives off his star players.

 

[ark steel]

it's called context. when you look at the big picture of what this team has been, and the potential that they've not been able to meet, for the majority of coach tomlin's tenure, it's pretty obvious that it's time to find a new voice for the locker room.

Context is, exactly, it. That is my point regarding the SD game. Perspective and Context.

Part of that context is, indeed, what this team has been. Those players we have on O didn't magically appear. Unless it has now become the board's contention that Tomlin doesn't have anything to do with who is drafted.

The other issue is that I have a hard time believing that someone else is automatically better. The names I have mentioned her, certainly are not (Harbaugh and Ryan to name a couple).

More context. Remember earlier in the year where we were far and away the most penalized team? Now there are 14 teams worse and 5 other teams within 4 penalties of us (about .25 penalties per game). Still not great, but if the mantra then was "Tomlin has this team so undisciplined" we lead the league in penalties. How does that work now when we've gone 6 games with only 22 penalties? (this is called penalties, not accepted, btw). Did he, suddenly learn how to coach players to not commit penalties?

 

[ark steel]

we should already be in the playoffs, not needing to win out or pray for others to lose.

Tomlin is average and lives off his star players.

How did they get here?

 

[slashsteel]

it's called context. when you look at the big picture of what this team has been, and the potential that they've not been able to meet, for the majority of coach tomlin's tenure, it's pretty obvious that it's time to find a new voice for the locker room.

oh,****,that's,a,lot,of,comas,

hi

 

[slashsteel]

How did they get here?

Most by plane some by automobiles.

 

[Litos]

How did they get here?

through him and a whole scout team I guess, he ultimately signs off on them but there must be a lot of people involved. Also he inherited Ben and that's a HoF QB that few coaches get. He has had one through all his tenure as HC.

Regarding the players drafted, half of them have sucked through tomlin and I can't blame him alone either but he definitely is responsible for them after they got drafted. Which player has really overachieved his abilities with Tomlin? Jesse James maybe, Foster, Villanueva (these two I will credit a lot more Munchak)? can't think of one on defense aside from Vince Williams who is not close to be a star either. Shazier was the one that was a home run on that side of the ball.

 

[AggieSteel]

If the team can find it in themselves to play with the same level of intensity against bad teams as it does against good teams, I might re-think my position on him. For now, despite a great win vs NE, he’s still on my **** list


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Ron Burgundy]

How did they get here?

The defense has become steadily worse as Cowher's players retired. The only really good defensive players Shades has drafted are Heyward, Shazier, and Watt.

 

[ark steel]

The defense has become steadily worse as Cowher's players retired. The only really good defensive players Shades has drafted are Heyward, Shazier, and Watt.

While the O got hugely better.

Remember, also, in Cowhers day only one or 2 teams were running a 3-4 type D. It was more likely that a good 3-4 OLB might last.

 

[Litos]

While the O got hugely better.

Remember, also, in Cowhers day only one or 2 teams were running a 3-4 type D. It was more likely that a good 3-4 OLB might last.

half of that is on Ben (or more), without him this offense wouldn't click and we all know it

 

[Stryker]

The best option we have at back-up QB is Josh Dobbs...that should tell you all that you need to know about our talent evaluation at QB after Ben. The supposed replacement for Ben is not good enough to upseat Dobbs for the back up spot to earn a hat on game days.

What is this BS argument about Rudolph? The kid is a rookie, and he and Dobbs were both good enough to replace Landry. The QB no one liked on this roster, and you want to **** on a rookie, who is learning how to play in this league, over a player that has 2 years with our team and beat out our multiyear backup? You're fixated on the wrong personnel moves.