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Pens Hockey 2021?

topseed said:
So, I guess most of you were right to pack it in following Game 5, after all. The Penguins had the lead 3 separate times in Game 6, and still couldn't hold it. The obvious blame falls on Jarry. It was a true test of his mental toughness after that giveaway in OT, and he failed miserably.

What I find interesting among the reactions here is: While so many people are ready to immediately cut ties with Letang, Malkin, Sullivan, and some others, Crosby always seems to avoid any criticism whatsoever. Why is that? 2 points in 6 playoff games this year. 6 points in his last 14.

When Crosby isn't producing, it's always Guentzel's fault. Or Rust's fault. Or (insert any random winger here)'s fault. Oh, they can't skate with him. Oh, they don't know how to play with a world-class talent. Oh, they can't think the game like Crosby. Oh, they don't protect him. I'm sick of this bullshit. Other than one great (and somewhat lucky) tip in the first game, Crosby didn't do **** this entire series besides turn the puck over on a regular basis.

When does Sid start to be held accountable in any fashion for these ongoing first-round exits?
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I don't know top, I watch Sid a lot when he's on the ice and he's the most consistent and strong on the puck. He may try to do too much at times, but when I think of players that give it their all, Sid rises to the top. I wish he didn't pass as much, but that's the MO of the Pens: pass, pass, pass, lose the puck. Hence, why he is always not on the score sheet, but he does a lot on the ice that can be taken for granted. Was it game 3, where he dove to save a goal with a deflection at the end of the game? Those little things are what is important and overlooked.

The longer they fail in the PO, Sid will be viewed with a microscope, but I think he still has a ton of game left and brings it every game.
 
JMM said:
I agree. I'm more business like when it comes to the players. I really appreciate all the sacrifice and hard work they gave but they were also well compensated. They would have done the same if they were hired by the Ducks, the Caps or the Whale if they still existed. I think that if you can make a deal with your aging stars to keep your team competitive and moving forward you have to do it. Otherwise you'll find yourself in the doldrums for who knows how long.
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I get that the Penguins are not going to part ways with Sid. He's still synonymous with the franchise. It just seems like he is given a pass by most fans, no matter how he performs.
 
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thesteelcity said:
I don't know top, I watch Sid a lot when he's on the ice and he's the most consistent and strong on the puck. He may try to do too much at times, but when I think of players that give it their all, Sid rises to the top. I wish he didn't pass as much, but that's the MO of the Pens: pass, pass, pass, lose the puck. Hence, why he is always not on the score sheet, but he does a lot on the ice that can be taken for granted. Was it game 3, where he dove to save a goal with a deflection at the end of the game? Those little things are what is important and overlooked.

The longer they fail in the PO, Sid will be viewed with a microscope, but I think he still has a ton of game left and brings it every game.
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I watch Sid a lot, too. And he tries to force the puck too often, something for which Malkin gets crucified. I don't question his heart or effort, but that just hasn't been enough lately. What happened to all the work he put in to improve on faceoffs? 42% from your top center is hard to overlook.

Crosby doesn't have a single multi-point game in three postseasons. He hasn't been better than a +1, but he's been a -3 twice. The team is 3-11 in those games -- to me it seems that he has lost the ability to elevate his game (and his team) when it counts the most.
 
topseed said:
I watch Sid a lot, too. And he tries to force the puck too often, something for which Malkin gets crucified. I don't question his heart or effort, but that just hasn't been enough lately. What happened to all the work he put in to improve on faceoffs? 42% from your top center is hard to overlook.

Crosby doesn't have a single multi-point game in three postseasons. He hasn't been better than a +1, but he's been a -3 twice. The team is 3-11 in those games -- to me it seems that he has lost the ability to elevate his game (and his team) when it counts the most.
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What is the trick to winning faceoffs? I assume a lot has to do with lightning fast hand eye coordination. The Pens were pretty much obliterated from that standpoint so there has to be a commonality to it. Might come down to aging reflexes.
 
JMM said:
What is the trick to winning faceoffs? I assume a lot has to do with lightning fast hand eye coordination. The Pens were pretty much obliterated from that standpoint so there has to be a commonality to it. Might come down to aging reflexes.
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Yep
 
topseed said:
I watch Sid a lot, too. And he tries to force the puck too often, something for which Malkin gets crucified. I don't question his heart or effort, but that just hasn't been enough lately. What happened to all the work he put in to improve on faceoffs? 42% from your top center is hard to overlook.

Crosby doesn't have a single multi-point game in three postseasons. He hasn't been better than a +1, but he's been a -3 twice. The team is 3-11 in those games -- to me it seems that he has lost the ability to elevate his game (and his team) when it counts the most.
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I feel Sid offers better coaching as well. Which is why I prefer he stays. Is he at fault? Sure, but when the wingers are taken out, there is only so much he can do
 
Anyone watch the game tonight? Looks like it was close until the 3rd but the Bs rolled the Isles 5-2.
 
JMM said:
Anyone watch the game tonight? Looks like it was close until the 3rd but the Bs rolled the Isles 5-2.
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Watched the 2nd and 3rd period. B’s seemed to carry play. They also hit Pellech and got net front presence. Something the Pens couldn’t do
 
Trotz runs a system similar to Ottawa 2016-2017.
It’s a defensive system designed to force the opposition into making a play.

a very strong defensive system. It stops speedier/skill teams. Not sure it will hold up against Boston who is willing to finish checks and get in front of the goalie. If Trotz becomes a bit more aggressive offensively. The Isles can be a dangerous team. The dude is a damn good coach.
 
thesteelcity said:
I like Jake, but he can't compete with the heavy game. I actually felt bad for him getting push around like he did. He's speed and finesse. Even if he went in the gym, I don't know if that would help. He doesn't have the PO build.
I'd be hard-pressed to move Rust. He's a hard worker that can kill pentalties and but also can play along with Sid, and on the PP. He's more valuable that Jake is right now, if we are changing the dynamics of the team.
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I cant believe how many people want to trade Jake I really dont get it. He has been one of our best performers in the playoffs. Even this year, people say he was pushed around, but yet he managed more shots on goal than anyone from both teams. If he is able to put pucks to the net then he is doing something right. Of course he did not score much, but some was bad luck and some is no one else going to the net. Jake was a terrible -6, Crosby was a -2 and Rust was a -3, but only 5 Pens not counting Jarry were even or +. Getting rid of one of your best scorers and proven past playoff performer is stupid IMO. The team is too soft in its own zone and you could say part of that is do to Jake's size, but I think the bigger issue is lack of physical Dmen. I think it is much easier to find a physical gritty player than a young skilled scorer like Jake. I think the team balance in general is wrong, but trading away your arguably best / 2nd best player is not going to fix it. They just need to start adding more physical guys vs small speed guys.
 
jitter77 said:
I cant believe how many people want to trade Jake I really dont get it. He has been one of our best performers in the playoffs. Even this year, people say he was pushed around, but yet he managed more shots on goal than anyone from both teams. If he is able to put pucks to the net then he is doing something right. Of course he did not score much, but some was bad luck and some is no one else going to the net. Jake was a terrible -6, Crosby was a -2 and Rust was a -3, but only 5 Pens not counting Jarry were even or +. Getting rid of one of your best scorers and proven past playoff performer is stupid IMO. The team is too soft in its own zone and you could say part of that is do to Jake's size, but I think the bigger issue is lack of physical Dmen. I think it is much easier to find a physical gritty player than a young skilled scorer like Jake. I think the team balance in general is wrong, but trading away your arguably best / 2nd best player is not going to fix it. They just need to start adding more physical guys vs small speed guys.
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I was just answering the previous post of moving Rust or Jake. I highly doubt they will trade him because he does score and Sid likes playing with him.
 
jitter77 said:
I cant believe how many people want to trade Jake I really dont get it. He has been one of our best performers in the playoffs. Even this year, people say he was pushed around, but yet he managed more shots on goal than anyone from both teams. If he is able to put pucks to the net then he is doing something right. Of course he did not score much, but some was bad luck and some is no one else going to the net. Jake was a terrible -6, Crosby was a -2 and Rust was a -3, but only 5 Pens not counting Jarry were even or +. Getting rid of one of your best scorers and proven past playoff performer is stupid IMO. The team is too soft in its own zone and you could say part of that is do to Jake's size, but I think the bigger issue is lack of physical Dmen. I think it is much easier to find a physical gritty player than a young skilled scorer like Jake. I think the team balance in general is wrong, but trading away your arguably best / 2nd best player is not going to fix it. They just need to start adding more physical guys vs small speed guys.
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Want to trade him? We’re just speculating. Jake is skilled, but I would bet the Pens would dangle him or Rust as trade bait before attempting to trade the core group.

The thing is guys like Jake, Rust and Dumoulin provide trade return value IF the Pens go that route.

I would hate to see him gone, but if he is traded. We better get something in return. Perhaps someone like Ristolainen? Maybe Gibson/Delauriers in Anaheim? In all honesty the Pens are only a couple physical blue liners away from competing for a cup again.

This past season was skilled team. They just lacked push
 
MTC said:
Watched the 2nd and 3rd period. B’s seemed to carry play. They also hit Pellech and got net front presence. Something the Pens couldn’t do
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Amazing what you can accomplish when you hit back and have someone in front of the net in Sorokins face....

Pens taking notes?

Doubt it.
 
jitter77 said:
I cant believe how many people want to trade Jake I really dont get it. He has been one of our best performers in the playoffs. Even this year, people say he was pushed around, but yet he managed more shots on goal than anyone from both teams. If he is able to put pucks to the net then he is doing something right. Of course he did not score much, but some was bad luck and some is no one else going to the net. Jake was a terrible -6, Crosby was a -2 and Rust was a -3, but only 5 Pens not counting Jarry were even or +. Getting rid of one of your best scorers and proven past playoff performer is stupid IMO. The team is too soft in its own zone and you could say part of that is do to Jake's size, but I think the bigger issue is lack of physical Dmen. I think it is much easier to find a physical gritty player than a young skilled scorer like Jake. I think the team balance in general is wrong, but trading away your arguably best / 2nd best player is not going to fix it. They just need to start adding more physical guys vs small speed guys.
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The sad truth to the matter is that you have to give up something in order to get something of value, so I don't want to see Jake playing for someone else but if we want to build this team to at least get past the first round of the playoffs, sacrifices are going to have to be made. Jake might be what it takes to get that defenseman who can keep Wilson from building a dwelling just outside the blue paint and make him think twice about roughing up our guys. Or he might get us that in front of the net presence we desperately need.
 
JMM said:
What is the trick to winning faceoffs? I assume a lot has to do with lightning fast hand eye coordination. The Pens were pretty much obliterated from that standpoint so there has to be a commonality to it. Might come down to aging reflexes.
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I don't know, but at the age of 36, Jeff Carter was able to win 58% of his playoff faceoffs. Along with scoring 4 goals while playing on the third line and second-team power play.
 
MTC said:
I feel Sid offers better coaching as well. Which is why I prefer he stays. Is he at fault? Sure, but when the wingers are taken out, there is only so much he can do
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I mean, it's not like trading Sid is even an option we can ponder; Mario will never let him go. It's kind of (but not exactly) like the Steelers situation with Tomlin...he's not going anywhere until he decides that it's time.
 
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topseed said:
I don't know, but at the age of 36, Jeff Carter was able to win 58% of his playoff faceoffs. Along with scoring 4 goals while playing on the third line and second-team power play.
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It’s more reflex. Having played ice hockey myself. The quicker guy wins.

Not necessarily age related.
I’m a believer in if you take care of yourself via healthy lifestyle you retain those for awhile. For example - Jagr
 
MTC said:
It’s more reflex. Having played ice hockey myself. The quicker guy wins.

Not necessarily age related.
I’m a believer in if you take care of yourself via healthy lifestyle you retain those for awhile. For example - Jagr
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In Sid's defense, sometimes it's matchups. He's generally taking faceoffs against better opponents than Carter would be on the third line. I have no doubt that Crosby works as hard as he possibly can to maintain his body and overall health.
 
topseed said:
In Sid's defense, sometimes it's matchups. He's generally taking faceoffs against better opponents than Carter would be on the third line. I have no doubt that Crosby works as hard as he possibly can to maintain his body and overall health.
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There is a certain technique but for the most part it’s just quicker movement.

Sid excels at other stuff on ice. His creativity is one I wouldn’t look past. My knock on him is his pass first mentality.

Sid has never been the fastest skater, but he does have great puck possession and is hard to knock off the puck. Playing against the isles is one of the few times I’ve seen him get pushed off easily. The guy is usually a work horse with the puck and can take some back checks to create opportunities
 
Anywho. The Pens overall played a great season.
The team did play with some skill. All that’s missing is some front net presence.

Having some physical blue liners would also help imo.
 
jitter77 said:
I cant believe how many people want to trade Jake I really dont get it. He has been one of our best performers in the playoffs. Even this year, people say he was pushed around, but yet he managed more shots on goal than anyone from both teams. If he is able to put pucks to the net then he is doing something right. Of course he did not score much, but some was bad luck and some is no one else going to the net. Jake was a terrible -6, Crosby was a -2 and Rust was a -3, but only 5 Pens not counting Jarry were even or +. Getting rid of one of your best scorers and proven past playoff performer is stupid IMO. The team is too soft in its own zone and you could say part of that is do to Jake's size, but I think the bigger issue is lack of physical Dmen. I think it is much easier to find a physical gritty player than a young skilled scorer like Jake. I think the team balance in general is wrong, but trading away your arguably best / 2nd best player is not going to fix it. They just need to start adding more physical guys vs small speed guys.
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Penguins fans always want to trade their best players. Every season for the past decade plus people have wanted to trade Sid and Geno. It never changes. It'd be the equivalent of wanting to trade guys like Ben, Heyward, Watt, Fitzpatrick every year if trading was more prominent in the NFL. Thankfully it isn't so we don't have to hear it year in and out.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
Penguins fans always want to trade their best players. Every season for the past decade plus people have wanted to trade Sid and Geno. It never changes. It'd be the equivalent of wanting to trade guys like Ben, Heyward, Watt, Fitzpatrick every year if trading was more prominent in the NFL. Thankfully it isn't so we don't have to hear it year in and out.
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Hey we know the players, the Pens financial and cap situation better than the GMs etc, so you and the high horse you rode into town on can go **** yourselves. Now don't tell us our business again ya ******* miserable prick. ;)
 
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