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Reflecting on the Mapletron trade

Litos said:
DJ has been a 3rd down go to guy for sure
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If on those third downs the play wasn't designed to go short to the outside as the first read maybe he wouldn't. I made it to the Raiders game. Pickens was covered by one player. He usually beat that player deep all game. Pickett simply never looks his way. The short dump is the first read and he throws it. At some point the offense has to open up a bit especially when the opposing team are only using one player to cover Pickens....who gets open. Pickett has got to start taking shots down field to him in those one on one situations.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
As juicy as 4 picks in the top 50 would be I'm pretty much with you though we obviously have different values on the player. And to me a pro bowler isn't a one time deal. A pro bowler at receiver should be top 10 at his position and I don't see that. And I don't care who he plays with or what the system is. No top 10 talent gets shut out of the endzone for a whole season. But that aside. I probably keep DJ next season for Kenny's long term development. Then he will either be a Career Steelers player or I would trade him in the final year if he wants a crazy number. He isn't a crazy number talent.
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I understand those points.

DJ's 1st 3 years was the best 1st 3 years from any X WR we ever had, and he was the only one to earn a Pro Bowl as a WR in his 1st 3. Just a great start at the X when most of our other great Xs (Ward, Stallworth, AB) started going in their 4th+ seasons.

I also don't think DJ is the problem for not getting TDs. We only have 4TDs to all of our WRs this season and one of those TDs left when Claypool was traded (and he also threw one of them). GP has the other 3. Gunner, Boykin, DJ, Sims, White all without TDs and currently only have one WR with any TDs.

Can't remember the last time we had a WR leading our team with only 3 receiving TDs in week 18. Hell there is only 11 receiving TDs on the season. That's putrid, so I can't place the blame on any of the WRs here if our QBs are having trouble getting the ball into the EZ to anyone.
 
stillwright said:
If on those third downs the play wasn't designed to go short to the outside as the first read maybe he wouldn't. I made it to the Raiders game. Pickens was covered by one player. He usually beat that player deep all game. Pickett simply never looks his way. The short dump is the first read and he throws it. At some point the offense has to open up a bit especially when the opposing team are only using one player to cover Pickens....who gets open. Pickett has got to start taking shots down field to him in those one on one situations.
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Yeah have never understood. Have had lots of throw away runs. To me if you get a successful play on first of 4 or more and you arebgetting a one on one with not just George but others....you gotta take that shot. A deep incompletion is never a throw away. It keeps the defense from compressing down. They have gotten just slightly better using the middle, but you are still closing windows and playing in a phone booth by not using deep thirds.
 
Stryker said:
And guys, here's your drop leaders in the NFL. https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

I've been saying this all year. Why does DJ get the hate and none for GP when they have the exact same number of drops, but DJ has 35 more catches?
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The reasons DJ draws more scrutiny than Pickens;

1) Paid more
2) Gets more targets
3)) DJ has experience Pickens is a rookie
4) DJ doesn’t get nearly enough TDs for a WR1
5) DJ does that stupid 3 yard retreat after catches giving up 1st down yardage
6) Pickens makes more Wow catches and is better at contested catches, has a larger catch radius
7) Pickens has been open on 90% of his routes, that guy guarding him really doesn’t matter…just throw him the damn ball and watch, he needs no separation to be “open”

Sure there are many more but that’s a good start
 
Stryker said:
I understand those points.

DJ's 1st 3 years was the best 1st 3 years from any X WR we ever had, and he was the only one to earn a Pro Bowl as a WR in his 1st 3. Just a great start at the X when most of our other great Xs (Ward, Stallworth, AB) started going in their 4th+ seasons.

I also don't think DJ is the problem for not getting TDs. We only have 4TDs to all of our WRs this season and one of those TDs left when Claypool was traded (and he also threw one of them). GP has the other 3. Gunner, Boykin, DJ, Sims, White all without TDs and currently only have one WR with any TDs.

Can't remember the last time we had a WR leading our team with only 3 receiving TDs in week 18. Hell there is only 11 receiving TDs on the season. That's putrid, so I can't place the blame on any of the WRs here if our QBs are having trouble getting the ball into the EZ to anyone.
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Probably need a better WR coach along with a new OC
 
Fiji Mariner said:
The reasons DJ draws more scrutiny than Pickens;

1) Paid more
2) Gets more targets
3)) DJ has experience Pickens is a rookie
4) DJ doesn’t get nearly enough TDs for a WR1
5) DJ does that stupid 3 yard retreat after catches giving up 1st down yardage
6) Pickens makes more Wow catches and is better at contested catches, has a larger catch radius
7) Pickens has been open on 90% of his routes, that guy guarding him really doesn’t matter…just throw him the damn ball and watch, he needs no separation to be “open”

Sure there are many more but that’s a good start
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Great points. I only disagree with #7.
 
Confluence said:
Probably need a better WR coach along with a new OC
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Couldn't hurt, but the WR production will go up when we start using play action and throwing down field. That's on the QBs/ OC this year.
 
The three yard retreat drives me nuts. He needs to work on 2 things in the off-season, catching the ball and running forward.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
Remember how AB had that dog in him. ? DJ is missing that. Hines ward had it too.
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Yep. GP has it. He wants the ball and when it is the air he goes and gets it. I still for the life of me don't understand why we don't have at least 2 deep shots to him a game. Even to just loosen the defense a little.
 
FordFairLane said:
Yep. GP has it. He wants the ball and when it is the air he goes and gets it. I still for the life of me don't understand why we don't have at least 2 deep shots to him a game. Even to just loosen the defense a little.
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Unfortunately he didn't get it in the endzone. Just saying
 
Stryker said:
Not an argument, just a discussion. Ben is the factor that made them both great. Without Ben, they are not as good. Outside of Pit, AB is average at best.
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Stryker said:
DJ mostly with Ben? Rookie and this season had Ben for first 2 games rookie year. Middle 2 years had Ben up till week 10 when his noodle arm kicked in and he couldn't throw deep anymore. Not the same Ben IMHO.

DJ's route running is elite. The film proves it. The Steelers also don't trade Pro Bowlers, unless there are off field/locker room issues, like AB.
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So we can completely discount AB's much better per snap production (despite being a #3 receiver in his early thirties) over DJ's, because of Ben's "noodle arm" in the latter part of two seasons. Even though Ben was, quote unquote, the factor that made DJ great.

Got it. LOL.
 
madinsomniac said:
The issue is finding a guy that cheap worth a damn… do you really want the carcass of Joe flacco or Andy Dalton here?
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I’d rather go get Dobbs than pay Mitch that coin to be the backup. He barely broke 1M this year with Stains. Give him a nice 2 year 3M total deal and spend that money saved in the trenches
 
Stryker said:
Not an argument, just a discussion. Ben is the factor that made them both great. Without Ben, they are not as good. Outside of Pit, AB is average at best.
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Don't kid yourself. AB was a truly great receiver. The difference is he didn't stick around long enough anywhere to generate chemistry. Tom Brady did not stick his neck out for the guy cause he is a average receiver. He knew AB can help you win. The problem is he is not even close to being an "average" human being. He's the definition of douche! Ben makes a lot of people look good but AB could have been good anywhere with a decent QB if he kept himself in check and stuck around.
 
FordFairLane said:
Yep. GP has it. He wants the ball and when it is the air he goes and gets it. I still for the life of me don't understand why we don't have at least 2 deep shots to him a game. Even to just loosen the defense a little.
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Cause our current offense is predicated on being "safe" hopefully they get rid of that mantra soon, dear god please let that happen. Your absolutely right though GP has the makings to be "the guy" not just on this team but in the league.
 
livingthrudying said:
Don't kid yourself. AB was a truly great receiver. The difference is he didn't stick around long enough anywhere to generate chemistry. Tom Brady did not stick his neck out for the guy cause he is a average receiver. He knew AB can help you win. The problem is he is not even close to being an "average" human being. He's the definition of douche! Ben makes a lot of people look good but AB could have been good anywhere with a decent QB if he kept himself in check and stuck around.
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So who gets credit for keeping AB in shape here? Ben or Tomlin?
 
livingthrudying said:
Don't kid yourself. AB was a truly great receiver. The difference is he didn't stick around long enough anywhere to generate chemistry. Tom Brady did not stick his neck out for the guy cause he is a average receiver. He knew AB can help you win. The problem is he is not even close to being an "average" human being. He's the definition of douche! Ben makes a lot of people look good but AB could have been good anywhere with a decent QB if he kept himself in check and stuck around.
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AB was phenominal, but DJ is already great. You don't have to put words in my mouth to state that I think DJ is better than AB, because I never said that. Just better than AB statistically since we earned his draft pick for that trade.

Historically for Steelers receivers, DJ is #16 in yards and is 5th when you count X receivers (Ward, Brown, Stallworth, Thigpen-43 yds ahead).
DJ is already #6 all time in Steelers history in receptions. Bread and butter for the X, and 4th for all Steeler X WRs (Ward, Brown, Stallworth).

A lot of people have a blind spot for DJs current contributions to this team, and already being #6 all time in receptions after 4 seasons show he's doing something right.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
Remember how AB had that dog in him. ? DJ is missing that. Hines ward had it too.
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Yes… my issue with DJnis almost all of his issues are focus issues… i dont think he has great body control on the sidelines either, but a lot of his drops are him starting to plan the run before finishing the catch… maybe its dislike of contact, but I just think he loses focus… and that is fixable…

Ab was the last man off the practice field every day and routinely practiced sideline catches… DJ is just very Meh at sideline footwork.. I doubt he puts in the time


Stryker is right that DJ is getting open a lot… but you’d like your possession receiver to be a little higher that 62% catch percentage especially when he really has regressed massively in YAC ability… and that isn’t on the qb… he always tries to make a move immediately after catching the ball often when just advancing it with momentum will get more yardage…

now some guys get that catch % up in years 5 or six, so that may happen…and he does still get unfairly **** on for outright drop’s because of that one horrible year.. he still has them, but he is like borderline top 100 in the league in drop percentage by the most reputable stat sites. The problem is that his drops seem to come at ket points so they are more memorable

This guy is top 10 in targets, but he is 15th in catches, 29th in yards and 84th in YAC… he is tied with Jaylen ******* warren in yac and warren has caught like 25 total passes…

Look most of us here underrate DJ by a lot… Stryker overrates him… he is what he is. He hasn’t yet shown that he can be a playmaking possession guy…and because of that he doesn’t open up the field for the rest of the team like AB did.. he isn’t a bad player.. if we traded him we would get a first… he isn’t over or underpaid… he sort of just is …
I don’t believe that Addison is going to be where we are going to draft now… if he was, I’d totally endorse trading DJ for a first round pick and selecting him because at worse he is going to be that same guy who just routinely gets open… at best he shows a playmaking upgrade at the position …
 
Stryker said:
So who gets credit for keeping AB in shape here? Ben or Tomlin?
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Both should

What’s really sad is that he seemed like a normal dude, a bit of a diva like many WRs but a hard worker and great player until that head hunter shot he took vs the Bengals

Seemed like that may have truly knocked him “silly” cuz about a year or so later he starts really spiraling

May be coincidence but I can’t help but think that may be a contributing factor and if so I gotta cut him a little slack
 
Can we put the 1st for DJ to bed. No one is trading a first for DJ and I'm not taking a second if I'm the Steelers. He us just too inconsistent.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
Can we put the 1st for DJ to bed. No one is trading a first for DJ and I'm not taking a second if I'm the Steelers. He us just too inconsistent.
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Hollywood Brown got a first. If someone is desperate enough, they'll give up a first for Johnson.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
You can just take the First Rounder. 50 50 he is as good and you control contract for 4-5 years. Not happening
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The Bears could've just waited and taken the second rounder, they wanted Claypool just like the Cardinals wanted Brown for a first. There are teams out there that want proven talent.
 
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