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Rod Woodson says Ben isn't a hall of fame QB

I think Ben Rothlesburger is in. The biggest thing holding him back, would be the fact of so many STEELERS already in. His numbers should be good enough to get him in, if he was on another team. If you think his poor SB play is the kink, Elway, in his era, played poorer. Maybe my B & G is showing, but it is a possibility.


Salute the nation
 
Though very solid, Ben's regular season performance does not even remotely compare to Peyton's.

Peyton has taken multiple subpar defensive teams to the playoffs. Ben has struggled to make the post season with less than elite defenses,

With all the illegal contact and defenseless receiver rules implemented over the the past decade, it is definitely a much different league than it was when the likes of Elway played.

Elway would brutally sodomize today's league.

Other QBs were sodomizing defenses in the 90s but Elway couldn't. Montana was doing it in the 80s but Elway couldn't. Hell Jim Kelly was rocking in the early 90s but Elway wasn't. Warren Moon was racking up numbers in the 80's and 90's.

BTW you realize Moon won ONE more game than he lost in his NFL career? He had a 58.4% Comp. He played 17 years in the NFL and only won more than 9 games twice (10 games once and 11 games once). Yet he is in the HOF. He was never the best QB in the league. He threw for a lot of yards but he was never the best QB. Even if Manning and Brady get hurt and Ben throws for 5000 yards he is not going to be the best in the league. There are lots of QBs and other positions where players weren't the best in the league but they got in.
 
Hell, I wish they'd say Ben should be selling groceries. Any extra motivation...
 
If you flipped the script and Ben was the QB of the Browns and won 2 of 3 Super Bowls would this even be a question?
 
He'll be a 'first ballot' by the time he retires. There can be arguments made either way right now and his off-field issues may taint the process somewhat but barring a abrupt halt to his career and if he continues to play as he is now, he'll more than likely sail right in.
 
Other QBs were sodomizing defenses in the 90s but Elway couldn't. Montana was doing it in the 80s but Elway couldn't. Hell Jim Kelly was rocking in the early 90s but Elway wasn't. Warren Moon was racking up numbers in the 80's and 90's.

BTW you realize Moon won ONE more game than he lost in his NFL career? He had a 58.4% Comp. He played 17 years in the NFL and only won more than 9 games twice (10 games once and 11 games once). Yet he is in the HOF. He was never the best QB in the league. He threw for a lot of yards but he was never the best QB. Even if Manning and Brady get hurt and Ben throws for 5000 yards he is not going to be the best in the league. There are lots of QBs and other positions where players weren't the best in the league but they got in.
Warren moon also played in what was acknowledged to be the toughest division in foot ball and had to play the Steelers twice every year. The bengals and browns were tough in those days as well. I often remember thinking that if the oilers were in the NFC they would have been playing the Steelers in the big game. They were a good team and moon was an excellent QB.

I do not think Ben is a lock for the hall yet. I sure do not think Brady is nor Peyton just because he has failed in so many play off games.Brady is simply a dink and dunk qb and has been the benefit of a cheating scandal and some very questionable calls the tuck rule in the oakland game sure was well timed.

There is nothing that says quarter backs have to be inducted from this class. As it stands now I would not put any of them in.
 
Woodson was a good player early in his career. Later in his career he proved to be a punk. That punk in him has been apparent for years now. Who gives a **** what he says. I never watch his **** on tv. The network would be wise to fire him.
 
He'll be a 'first ballot' by the time he retires. There can be arguments made either way right now and his off-field issues may taint the process somewhat but barring a abrupt halt to his career and if he continues to play as he is now, he'll more than likely sail right in.

Hall of fame, yes. First Ballot? Maybe not.

When they limit the inductees to 5 modern day players from all positions, everything relies upon how good the competition for those spots is. If he falls to number 6, he's out.
That's what's happening to Bettis right now. He was never the best in his playing era, but he was among the best. If other candidates are seen as being higher amongst their peers during their era - then they get the nod first.
 
If Jim Kelly is in the hall of fame, Roethlisberger will get in after this season.

Kelly started 160 games. Roethlisberger 142.

Kelly was an NFL starter for 11 seasons. Roethlisberger has been a starter for 10 seasons.

Kelly was 101-59 as a starter. Roethlisberger is 95-47.

Kelly made the playoffs 8 of 11 seasons. Roethlisberger has made the playoffs 6 of 10 seasons.

Kelly is 14-11 in playoffs and 0-4 in Super Bowls. Roethlisberger is 10-4 in playoffs and 2-1 in Super Bowls.

Kelly's QB Rating was +11% better than average during his career. Roethlisberger is +12%.

Kelly has "Six Black Inks": Completion % (once), TD's (once), TD% (twice), INT (once), QB Rating (once)

Roethlisberger has "Three Black Inks": TD% (once), INT (once), YPA (once)


So unless you really count Kelly's years in the USFL more than what is likely Roethlisberger's 3-4 additional years in the NFL (which would be plain stupid), there is no way you can convince me Roethlisberger is not a hall-of-famer.

And Kelly was a FIRST BALLOT hall-of-famer.

It's easy to say Roethlisberger isn't a hall-of-famer when compared to Manning and Brady, but those are two of the TOP-5 quarterbacks ever to play. Start comparing Roethlisberger to the #10-#20 quarterback in the hall of fame: Moon, Aikman, Dawson, Griese and Fouts and there is no way he should not be elected in.

You just can't convince me Roethlisberger's career isn't equal or better than Moon, Fouts, Kelly or Griese.
 
Looking at the all time stats I see Ben being in the top 7 in all time yards maybe 5 when he retires. Top 6-7 in TD's. Impressive to me is probably in the 53 place in interceptions. Those are hallf of fame numbers and yes I think the stigma might keep him out for the first few tries unless he keeps improving his image, which he has done a nice job of but the stigma is still out there and he has a bit further to go. But if a guy like Ray Lewis can wipe a murder off the record why can't Ben wipe a few drunk moronic nights.

Oh, and those numbers are him just playing 5 more years. 37 is not a reach but unlike Manning and Brady who get special treatment he won't be able to take the beating he does at 40. So unless they start to give him the Brady treatment he doesn't play as long as those guys. And, yes I took into account Brady, Brees, and Eli still playing with my stats.

Interesting side note. Roethlisberger barring injury should be 15th-16th behind Johnny U depending on what Eli does this year. That's a jump from 24th so there's some good QB's he will be passing. But next year is when he starts passing Hall Of Famers like Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Fouts and maybe even Tarkenton.
 
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Warren moon also played in what was acknowledged to be the toughest division in foot ball and had to play the Steelers twice every year. The bengals and browns were tough in those days as well. I often remember thinking that if the oilers were in the NFC they would have been playing the Steelers in the big game. They were a good team and moon was an excellent QB.

I do not think Ben is a lock for the hall yet. I sure do not think Brady is nor Peyton just because he has failed in so many play off games.Brady is simply a dink and dunk qb and has been the benefit of a cheating scandal and some very questionable calls the tuck rule in the oakland game sure was well timed.

There is nothing that says quarter backs have to be inducted from this class. As it stands now I would not put any of them in.

I think you are off a bit with your dates. Moon didn't even come into the league until the Steelers' dynasty was well over. He came in the league in 1984. The Steelers didn't make the playoffs for years. If the Steelers were in the NFC they'd never met in the SB because the Steelers were just an average to below average team.

Also you are out of your mind if you don't think Brady and Manning are first ballot locks for the HOF. It won't even be a discussion.
 
Moon was the master of the run and shoot. He's in the hall because he was a showman, put on a good act/performance for the league. Ben who combines stats with a solid winning record should clearly be in the Hall if Moon is.
 
This is a story still being written. He's not done winning Super Bowls.
 
Read a good article today on why Ben is already a lock. He may not be 1st ballot but he is a lock.

Many forget he lead the Steelers to 13 victories in a row, a 15-1 record and the AFC Championship game in his rookie season. And, he won Rookie of the Year.

He has 2 SB victories and 1 SB loss.

His all time win percentage currently sits at 6th and most of his stats are already easily inside the top 20 of all time. He is currently 17th on the all time win list with 95. He will crack 100 this year and will move into the top 10 all time wins either this year or next. Even without another SB, most of his stats will be top 10 all time. And, most of his career has been played on a team with a run first attitude.

Sounds like HOF material to me.
 
Who cares. The HOF is a popularity contest. It is also for when your career is OVER.
 
Woodson was a good player early in his career. Later in his career he proved to be a punk. That punk in him has been apparent for years now. Who gives a **** what he says. I never watch his **** on tv. The network would be wise to fire him.
Woodson was never a punk.
 
I think you are off a bit with your dates. Moon didn't even come into the league until the Steelers' dynasty was well over. He came in the league in 1984. The Steelers didn't make the playoffs for years. If the Steelers were in the NFC they'd never met in the SB because the Steelers were just an average to below average team.

Also you are out of your mind if you don't think Brady and Manning are first ballot locks for the HOF. It won't even be a discussion.
Did not say steeler dynasty. Moon would have been playing the steelers d which has been very good for decades. Our offense has been luke warm which was one of many reasons our team was not in the playoffs. Still was a defensive division. My thoughts on the big game were of moons predecessor with the oilers in Bradshaw's era though so I was having an error of era's, and sit corrected. As to being out of my mind regarding brady and manning we will have to disagree. Manning does well against lessor opposition but lost in the playoffs a lot and that is the time the games were on the line against better competition. He manning did not seem to be the edge that allowed his team to beat its opponents. Great mastery of the game and very good qb but not a big game winner. Brady a dink and dunk quarterback that benefited from cheating and some very timely penalties and unusual calls. Both of these guys could easily be in the hall of fame because it is not based solely on ability but is a media event. One does not have to be the best to get in, look at some of the ones that are in Sapp anyone. The thing I was putting out was my opinion as Woodson and Sapp were putting out theirs. As it stands now I do not consider Brady or Manning hall of fame material above all other candidates for the reasons I listed, your opinion may differ and that is fine, I also believe that is called a discussion when two people express their own view points on the same topic.
 
Also add bens playoffs numbers are not good.

Wait, what?

14 games, 10-4 record, 61% completion, 3150 yards, 20 TD's, 17 Int., 7.7 YPA, 203 Rushing yards, 3 rushing TD's, 83.7 passer rating.

That is pretty damn good against playoff teams.

And as to the criticism of his play in the Super Bowl against the Seahawks ... the ONLY reason the Steelers are in that game is because of how Ben played in the prior 3 playoff games:

49-72 passing, 68%, 680 yards, 7 TD, 1 interception, 9.4 YPA, 124.8 passer rating.
 
Wait, what?

14 games, 10-4 record, 61% completion, 3150 yards, 20 TD's, 17 Int., 7.7 YPA, 203 Rushing yards, 3 rushing TD's, 83.7 passer rating.

That is pretty damn good against playoff teams.

And as to the criticism of his play in the Super Bowl against the Seahawks ... the ONLY reason the Steelers are in that game is because of how Ben played in the prior 3 playoff games:

49-72 passing, 68%, 680 yards, 7 TD, 1 interception, 9.4 YPA, 124.8 passer rating.

Those are not good playoff numbers and are worse than playoff choker Manning and Brady among others.
 
Wait, what?

14 games, 10-4 record, 61% completion, 3150 yards, 20 TD's, 17 Int., 7.7 YPA, 203 Rushing yards, 3 rushing TD's, 83.7 passer rating.

That is pretty damn good against playoff teams.

And as to the criticism of his play in the Super Bowl against the Seahawks ... the ONLY reason the Steelers are in that game is because of how Ben played in the prior 3 playoff games:

49-72 passing, 68%, 680 yards, 7 TD, 1 interception, 9.4 YPA, 124.8 passer rating.



Those are great HOF numbers, just look at Joe Flacco and his MIRACLE run, **** !!!!



Salute the nation
 
Those are not good playoff numbers and are worse than playoff choker Manning and Brady among others.

Thank you it's amazing that anyone would think 20 Tds and 17 Ints are anywhere near hof numbers. Also add the fact he can't get his team in the playoffs unless he defense is top 5 in points allowed. He's is not a hof qb has never carried a team once in his life, bad playoff and Super Bowl numbers
 
I think Ben by the time he retires will be HOF, I also think if he played for any other team he would have gotten the respect he deserves during his career. When Ben has been retired for years I think that's when his value will be recognized, the NFL will look back and think "man do we miss watching that guy play and how is it this guy never got respect among the elite in the league, we were just bias and stupid." And Sapp will still be flapping his gums against him because he hates the Steelers for calling his team paper champions and proving it so long ago, he is still bitter about it lol.
 
Ben will get in. Why does he have to be compared to Peyton to get in? He has redefined what a big QB can do. He takes hits, and keeps plays alive better than possibly any QB ever. Not saying he's THE best, but his is Hall worthy. What really kills me is Warren Sapp talking about how some people shouldn't get in. If there's ever been a HOF player NOT worthy of that honor, it's Warren Sapp.
 
his argument of "you had to have been the absolute best player at your position for a few years", is hilarious.
 
Thank you it's amazing that anyone would think 20 Tds and 17 Ints are anywhere near hof numbers. Also add the fact he can't get his team in the playoffs unless he defense is top 5 in points allowed. He's is not a hof qb has never carried a team once in his life, bad playoff and Super Bowl numbers

Tell me you are joking. Ben never carried the Steelers once in his life?!?!?! If you are not joking, you are delusional.
 
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