Rod Woodson says Ben isn't a hall of fame QB

[CoolieMan]

So santonio threw the ball to himself? He was in such a zone he missed an easier catch the play before Ben's perfect pass he caught for the game winner

 

[Xc944]

2008.

Or do you think the Steelers rode the production of an injured Willie Parker and Mewelde Moore to the Super Bowl?

Yes, for the love of God, I get that the defense was superb.

So was the defense on the 1978 Steelers.

So was the defense on the 1994 Steelers.

Ben was the offense for a championship team.

Or how about the 2010 team? Oh, the great Mendenhall was the offense? Bwahahahahaha. Yeah, sure.

Ben played 12 games, went 9-3, 3200 yards, 17 TD, 5 picks, 8.2 YPA, 97 QB rating.

That team went to the Super Bowl and lost because Ben had a bad game.

If the QB did not effing matter, why do they lose when he struggles? Yeah, thanks for playing.

Okay, how about 2005? Again, the claim "the defense carried the team" is shown to be horsesh@t based on the fact that BETTER defenses - 1978 and 1994 - won nothing. In 2005, Ben goes 9-3, with 17 TD's, 9 interceptions, a 98.6 passer rating, 8.9 YPA.

Tell you what ... in about five years, we will all see what it is like to have a team without Ben at QB.

I remember Cliff Stoudt, and am not looking forward to that.

You couldn't have done a better job making my argument. If that's the best you have you have proven he has never carried a team. You're a clown for bringing up the 2010 team Ben was horrible In those playoffs and was lucky to be in the Super Bowl. Once again he never carried a team and he won't make he hof. He has never been a top qb In the league. The hof is for the best players ever that he is not. 2008 and 2010 lmfao

 

[Xc944]

2008.

Or do you think the Steelers rode the production of an injured Willie Parker and Mewelde Moore to the Super Bowl?

Yes, for the love of God, I get that the defense was superb.

So was the defense on the 1978 Steelers.

So was the defense on the 1994 Steelers.

Ben was the offense for a championship team.

Or how about the 2010 team? Oh, the great Mendenhall was the offense? Bwahahahahaha. Yeah, sure.

Ben played 12 games, went 9-3, 3200 yards, 17 TD, 5 picks, 8.2 YPA, 97 QB rating.

That team went to the Super Bowl and lost because Ben had a bad game.

If the QB did not effing matter, why do they lose when he struggles? Yeah, thanks for playing.

Okay, how about 2005? Again, the claim "the defense carried the team" is shown to be horsesh@t based on the fact that BETTER defenses - 1978 and 1994 - won nothing. In 2005, Ben goes 9-3, with 17 TD's, 9 interceptions, a 98.6 passer rating, 8.9 YPA.

Tell you what ... in about five years, we will all see what it is like to have a team without Ben at QB.

I remember Cliff Stoudt, and am not looking forward to that.

You couldn't have done a better job making my argument. If that's the best you have you have proven he has never carried a team. You're a clown for bringing up the 2010 team Ben was horrible In those playoffs and was lucky to be in the Super Bowl. Once again he never carried a team and he won't make he hof. He has never been a top qb In the league. The hof is for the best players ever that he is not. 2008 and 2010 lmfao. So by your logic anyone who better than stoudt, Malone Oddonells of the world are hofs. **** the hall better get ready because there are 100's of qbs coming. He's a very good qb he's just not a hof'er.

 

[slashsteel]

You couldn't have done a better job making my argument. If that's the best you have you have proven he has never carried a team. You're a clown for bringing up the 2010 team Ben was horrible In those playoffs and was lucky to be in the Super Bowl. Once again he never carried a team and he won't make he hof. He has never been a top qb In the league. The hof is for the best players ever that he is not. 2008 and 2010 lmfao. So by your logic anyone who better than stoudt, Malone Oddonells of the world are hofs. **** the hall better get ready because there are 100's of qbs coming. He's a very good qb he's just not a hof'er.

Three SB appearances a dry spell before Big Ben came along dating back to Terry Bradshaw, dry as in no SB victories and only one appearance.

One SB the O-line did Big Ben no favors the other he was green around the edges but still managed a winning streak that turned heads. And yeah still made enough plays to win.

I am happy we have a franchise QB and with him we could very well get one or two more victories.

When he makes the HOF, I hope you don't pillow cry yourself to sleep.............

hi

 

[jitter77]

I think if you gonna talk about passing tds and how many you have vs x QB rushing td's should also be counted since they are harder to get and happen less often. It's 4th and goal at the 6 the blitz is coming no time left in the game is there anyone else you would rather have then Ben? Manning Brady brees don't think so.

Since the Cards superbowl Ben has been anti-clutch. In his earlier years when the game was on the line he was money, but recently he has been anything but.

 

[insaniti]

If he was a HOF QB there would be 7 trophies not 6 and to get 5 he was a non factor.

Santonio Holmes is the reason we have 6. Holmes was in a zone on that last drive, and the drive before he caught a 3rd and whatever pass that hit him in the crook of the elbow . Ridiculous catch called back because the center held in the end zone.

Ben is a great football player, but great QB's have great stats.

Don't get me wrong I love me some Ben, just keeping it real.

Dan Marino and Jim Kelly with their combined 0 Super Bowl wins laugh at your argument. Ben was THE factor to getting 5. He was amazing up until the Super Bowl, and yes he had a bad QB rating, but people forget about the clutch plays that he MADE in that Super Bowl, including a rushing TD, sealing the game by running for a first down, and third and forever pass to Hines Ward that set up his rushing TD. But you're right, he was a non factor... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Second Super Bowl was all Holmes huh? Tell me why Holmes dropped the pass right before the amazing one again? He was wide open, it was a much easier catch and Ben put it right where it needed to be. And then he comes back on the very next play, hits Holmes who is double covered with a perfect pass where ONLY Holmes could get it... again, why was Ben even on the field if it was all Holmes...

I'd say stick to politics, but you're not very good over there either... maybe just stop posting all together?

 

[RollRed]

This is a tough question. Going to the SB and winning does not make you a HOF QB. He played poorly in 2/3 SBs and very well in the other. He also played well in the playoffs leading up to the SB against seattle, but didnt he have the lowest QB rating of a winning team in the SB? I think right now ben is teetering on the edge. Another good couple years and he could get and maybe a SB appearance should make him a lock.

Everything you said makes sense, yet you take a guy like Kurt Warner and the media has him penned in as a first ballot hall of famer, even though he went 1-3 in Super Bowls and threw pick 6's in both of the ones he lost. Granted Ben has never looked as good as Warner did those 4 or 5 years he was the QB of the "greatest show on turf", but 4 or 5 years does not a hall of fame career make. The year he led the Cardinals to the Super Bowl they were 9-7 for Pete's sake. I just think if Warner is a first ballot HOF'er, Ben definitely gets in at some point.

 

[Stryker]

A lot of people forget that Nate Washington had a big catch at midfield on that 08 SB drive. I suppose Holmes threw that one...

Also when Ben makes the HOF, Rod Woodson should present his ***!

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Everything you said makes sense, yet you take a guy like Kurt Warner and the media has him penned in as a first ballot hall of famer, even though he went 1-3 in Super Bowls and threw pick 6's in both of the ones he lost. Granted Ben has never looked as good as Warner did those 4 or 5 years he was the QB of the "greatest show on turf", but 4 or 5 years does not a hall of fame career make. The year he led the Cardinals to the Super Bowl they were 9-7 for Pete's sake. I just think if Warner is a first ballot HOF'er, Ben definitely gets in at some point.

You guys are placing way too much emphasis on SB's and playoffs (team achievement) for the HOF (individual achievement). If that is the case, then Eli is wellll ahead of BB- as his playoff numbers and awards far outweigh Ben's

 

[steel pirate]

Second Super Bowl was all Holmes huh?

I think James Harrison deserved the MVP.

 

[Wingman]

I think James Harrison deserved the MVP.

I think James Harrison deserved the MVP.

Yep that was the play that won the game. With out it Stonio only gets us close. Ben went to three super bowls and won 2. In the two he won other players contributed great plays and points. The first one with the sea fags Fast Willie Parker makes the longest Run from scrimmage in the history of the Super bowl for six. In that same game Antwan Randel El throws a touch down pass to Hines Ward, the only time a wide out has thrown a touchdown pass in the super bowl. Hines is the MVP. In that first game ben throws a pick that lets the sea fags back in the game.

Second game James Harrison makes a fantastic play for six which actually could have been responsible for a difference of 14 points. Ben and the offense scores a safety for the other team and has lots of three and outs that allow the cardinals to stay in the game.

Ben is a really good QB. He has not however been the main force on the team. He has been a critical but missing piece to the puzzle. I consider him right now to be a key player in our teams offense, we have several. Marino he is not. Marino did things that were unheard of. If we had not passed on him because we had Mark Malone things just might have been different. There might be a few more trophies in the big case.

 

[PoloMalo43]

Dan Marino and Jim Kelly with their combined 0 Super Bowl wins laugh at your argument. Ben was THE factor to getting 5. He was amazing up until the Super Bowl, and yes he had a bad QB rating, but people forget about the clutch plays that he MADE in that Super Bowl, including a rushing TD, sealing the game by running for a first down, and third and forever pass to Hines Ward that set up his rushing TD. But you're right, he was a non factor... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Second Super Bowl was all Holmes huh? Tell me why Holmes dropped the pass right before the amazing one again? He was wide open, it was a much easier catch and Ben put it right where it needed to be. And then he comes back on the very next play, hits Holmes who is double covered with a perfect pass where ONLY Holmes could get it... again, why was Ben even on the field if it was all Holmes...

I'd say stick to politics, but you're not very good over there either... maybe just stop posting all together?

I destroy fools wherever I tread.

Now tell us exactly how many points the offense had scored up to the point the Cards went up, and don't forget to subtract the 7 Harrison scored.

After you're done with that try to recall how many times the defense bailed this Offense out that same regular season.

A HOF QB finds ways to score points, he doesn't find ways to prevent you from scoring.

 

[Franco]

We have always been a mediocre offense scoring points with Ben and that is with great players su h as Hines ,the quick strike Willie Parker and Wallace and great talents like Heath and Brown. The constant is Ben and his inability to quickly get rid of the ball instead of his irritating habit of holding the ball waiting for the big play. That style of play is not consistent and does not result in high scoring. Thankfully Haley seems to be getting through to Ben and in the last half of the season last year Ben finally started taking what the defense gave him instead of playing the hero and the result eas the highest scoring stretch in his career. Ben has never even averaged a mediocre 25 points per game for a season an indictment of his playing style in todays easy scoring NFL

 

[CoolieMan]

I destroy fools wherever I tread.

Now tell us exactly how many points the offense had scored up to the point the Cards went up, and don't forget to subtract the 7 Harrison scored.

After you're done with that try to recall how many times the defense bailed this Offense out that same regular season.

A HOF QB finds ways to score points, he doesn't find ways to prevent you from scoring.

you destroy no one EVER. so Ben surveying the field and moving around in the pocket before firing what is likely the greatest pass in Super Bowl history is not "finding a way to score"

that drive was like the 5th or 6th time that season he brought the team back in the 4th quarter to pull out a win.

 

[insaniti]

I destroy fools wherever I tread.

Now tell us exactly how many points the offense had scored up to the point the Cards went up, and don't forget to subtract the 7 Harrison scored.

After you're done with that try to recall how many times the defense bailed this Offense out that same regular season.

A HOF QB finds ways to score points, he doesn't find ways to prevent you from scoring.

You made everyones point with that last statement. A HOF QB finds ways to score points... but you left off a very crucial part of that statement... when it matters most. 23 fourth quarter comebacks, and 32 game winning drives. Looks like this putrid offense with it's lowly "slightly better than average QB" has had to bail the defense out just as many times. But don't let facts get in your way, you never do.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Just been reading. Good points made both ways. I think Ben has more work to do. His resume is not complete. Especially with the bias he will recieve for the incidents. Right or wrong there will be people who vote that will hold it against him. Ben needs some dominant seasons stat wise and another appearance or two with a dominant mvp performance in the super bowl would help his cause also. I also disagree that Marino and Kelly would give up their Hall of Fame status for Super bowl rings. One is a individual honor and one is a team honor. Both highly sought after for different reasons. Most great athletes goal is to be one of the best to ever play and another is to win championships. Two different goals and achievments. Ben has more work to do.

 

[SteelerSask2]

This is all I would need to say to Rod Woodson about Ben Roethlisberger. Are you going to say that the teams that won the Super Bowl in 2005-2009 featured better defenses than the ones you played on in the early mid 90's? Really. With you, Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Carnell Lake, Steed, Brown, Kirkland and what the **** did you guys win? NOTHING. So why not? Discussion is over Rod. You put a Ben Roethlisberger on those teams and you win multiple titles. Easy. How many seasons of great defense and in the later half of the 90's Jerome Bettis were completely wasted by average to poor QB play?

 

[bermudasteel]

Rod's entitled to his opinion. And I'm entitled to disagree, which I do.

End of thread.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

or is it..........................?

 

[AggieSteel]

This is all I would need to say to Rod Woodson about Ben Roethlisberger. Are you going to say that the teams that won the Super Bowl in 2005-2009 featured better defenses than the ones you played on in the early mid 90's? Really. With you, Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Carnell Lake, Steed, Brown, Kirkland and what the **** did you guys win? NOTHING. So why not? Discussion is over Rod. You put a Ben Roethlisberger on those teams and you win multiple titles. Easy. How many seasons of great defense and in the later half of the 90's Jerome Bettis were completely wasted by average to poor QB play?

Yep, with Ben on those mid-90s teams, we would have multiple SB wins in 3 different decades

 

[Wingman]

This is all I would need to say to Rod Woodson about Ben Roethlisberger. Are you going to say that the teams that won the Super Bowl in 2005-2009 featured better defenses than the ones you played on in the early mid 90's? Really. With you, Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Carnell Lake, Steed, Brown, Kirkland and what the **** did you guys win? NOTHING. So why not? Discussion is over Rod. You put a Ben Roethlisberger on those teams and you win multiple titles. Easy. How many seasons of great defense and in the later half of the 90's Jerome Bettis were completely wasted by average to poor QB play?

I would say it was not average qb play it was very inconsistent play or poor depending. There were times when Cordell played well and was able to win games for us and in the same year he would come out and play horrible costing the team key games. In a couple of seasons that team was very near to championship games with the exception of a dropped pass or a great play by the opposing team knocked them out of the playoffs. O Donnell never looked like he had a good understanding of the game to me, he always had that the lights are on but nobody's home look on his face. Just too stupid to be a qb.

Ben would have been better than them easily. It is likely we would have won more trophies. Who would you have eliminated from the team? to Put Ben on those teams salary wise we would have likely needed to eliminate a couple of high profile players because we were always up against the cap. Just because Ben is better than some of our poor qbs in the past does not qualify him as a hall of fame player. He is a very good qb. He is a franchise qb. Those things do not make one hall of fame worthy. He may still do more to become hall of fame worthy.

I also do not think for a New York minute that Manning and Brady are great either. Manning losses in big games to better competitors on a consistent basis, that is a dis-qualifier right there. Brady is simply a system qb that campaigns for penalties, has benefited from some key questionable calls, and was involved in the biggest cheating scandal the commissioner ever covered up. Those are dis-qualifiers as well in my mind. There is no rule that says quarter backs must be included in the hall in every class.

The hall is filled with people that are picked by sports writers and the journalists are notoriously non objective so Manning and Brady may be first ballot guys, I just don't think they should be.

 

[insaniti]

If you don't think Manning should be in, I'd love to see who you would kick out of the HOF... because you have some awfully lofty expectations as to who deserves to be in and who does not.

 

[Wingman]

If you don't think Manning should be in, I'd love to see who you would kick out of the HOF... because you have some awfully lofty expectations as to who deserves to be in and who does not.

Look at his playoff record. He has lost far more than he won. He was never able to beat playoff teams regularly, a hof qb in my opinion should be able to do that. Lots of stats like yards etc are nice but they do not win games. So if you throw for 450 yards and 3 touch downs and loose the game what does it matter? Did not say the guy was a bum, just not hall of fame material, in my opinion. If you continually keep putting guys in that were not that great as far as winning the big games does it still remain a hall of fame or is it now the hall of a bunch of guys.

Let me ask this, how many linemen are in the hall by position. Do we have more qbs and other high profile players in the hall instead of the less famous players? Yes we do. We could actually skip a few and put people in at other positions fantasy football fans be damned

 

[insaniti]

Look at his playoff record. He has lost far more than he won. He was never able to beat playoff teams regularly, a hof qb in my opinion should be able to do that. Lots of stats like yards etc are nice but they do not win games. So if you throw for 450 yards and 3 touch downs and loose the game what does it matter? Did not say the guy was a bum, just not hall of fame material, in my opinion. If you continually keep putting guys in that were not that great as far as winning the big games does it still remain a hall of fame or is it now the hall of a bunch of guys.

Let me ask this, how many linemen are in the hall by position. Do we have more qbs and other high profile players in the hall instead of the less famous players? Yes we do. We could actually skip a few and put people in at other positions fantasy football fans be damned

So if Peyton throws for 450 and 3 TD's in a playoff game, but they lose, that's his fault? You have said before that it's an individual award, not a team award. So why is Peyton being judged by his teams record? Was it Manning's fault they lost to the Ravens two years ago? It was a 38-35 double OT game in which Manning threw for 3 TD's had the team ahead late in the fourth quarter and the Broncos DB's misjudge a prayer pass from Flacco and the Ravens tie it up. A lot of Manning's losses came against the Patriots, are we really going to pretend that those are equal to every other game? There were threads going 10 pages long about how the Patriots were just manhandling the Colts WR's and no calls... and that was on THIS board.

You are also putting WAY too much stock into JUST playoffs. What Manning has done during the regular season is insane. 12 4,000 yard seasons, 1 5,000 yard season, his two lone seasons under 4,000 yards were within 280 yards of that number. He's never thrown for less than 26 TD's every year he's played.

 

[slashsteel]

So if Peyton throws for 450 and 3 TD's in a playoff game, but they lose, that's his fault? You have said before that it's an individual award, not a team award. So why is Peyton being judged by his teams record? Was it Manning's fault they lost to the Ravens two years ago? It was a 38-35 double OT game in which Manning threw for 3 TD's had the team ahead late in the fourth quarter and the Broncos DB's misjudge a prayer pass from Flacco and the Ravens tie it up. A lot of Manning's losses came against the Patriots, are we really going to pretend that those are equal to every other game? There were threads going 10 pages long about how the Patriots were just manhandling the Colts WR's and no calls... and that was on THIS board.

You are also putting WAY too much stock into JUST playoffs. What Manning has done during the regular season is insane. 12 4,000 yard seasons, 1 5,000 yard season, his two lone seasons under 4,000 yards were within 280 yards of that number. He's never thrown for less than 26 TD's every year he's played.

It is if he is throwing INTs at inopportune times.

Team game sure, but those turnovers kill ya.