Russel Wilson

[Troglodyte]

The grass with Russ right now is dead-of-winter shlt-brown.

With Russ? Have you watched the rest of the team?

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Russ is what his record says 6-4
With wins vs 3 absolute **** teams

Fields is what his record says 4-2
With 1 win vs an absolute **** team

Fields also took the first 6 games when a very young OL without its LG was trying to find itself.

Russ comes on after some gel time and the benefit of everyone being more familiar with the installed offense.

Fields was showing signs of improvement and is young

Russ showing a backslide and is old.

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see which would be the better (and also likely cheaper) to resign in the offseason.

The only way I’d even contemplate resigning OldeRuss would be on the back of multiple
Playoff wins.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

10-3 included wins against the Ravens and Washington. 2/3 losses were with Fields starting.

Translation: During the 13 game stretch, we played 2 worthy opponents. Pancake schedule. When the competition stiffened, DisastRuss showed up.

Proven Prowess and a CURRENT 97.4 passer rating is experimental?

Derek Carr has a 101 passer rating. Congrats, Russ ain't even equal to Carr. You act like the difference between Russ' 97.4 rating and Justin's 93.3 is the difference between the HoF and practice squad. And it leaves out the rushing component of Justin's game (including his 5 rushing TDs in 6 starts.

Lamar Jackson's 121.6 is eye popping.

Wilson also had good games and wins against several of the leagues best pass defenses albeit not the best teams that I already posted.

Yep, and he's lost 3 in a row to some of those great pass defenses, showing - he can't get the job done when it matters. Thanks for making my point.

He's won games against teams that are a combined 37 Wins and 43 Losses. And one of those wins was against Baltimore, where he posted an eye popping 67.5 rating with 0 TDs, 1 pick and 4 sacks.

Not against 7-9 Dallas and Indianapolis, no.

Or 3-13 Cleveland. But who's counting?

Thankfully Russ is playing himself out of the role.

 

[Sarge]

I like Frazier and McCormick, but I think you're assuming a lot regarding Jones and Fautanu.

Jones in particular has to prove he will be better at LT than he's been at RT.

The only way for Jones to prove it is to actually play there.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Russ is what his record says 6-4
With wins vs 3 absolute **** teams

Fields is what his record says 4-2
With 1 win vs an absolute **** team

Fields also took the first 6 games when a very young OL without its LG was trying to find itself.

Russ comes on after some gel time and the benefit of everyone being more familiar with the installed offense.

Fields was showing signs of improvement and is young

Russ showing a backslide and is old.

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see which would be the better (and also likely cheaper) to resign in the offseason.

The only way I’d even contemplate resigning OldeRuss would be on the back of multiple
Playoff wins.

Great post Fiji Mariner, thank you for all the great ones along with the humor.

If we sign either QB, we will need to think drafting HIGH PICK in 26'.

Move up our #3 and ride a cheap veteran as deep back up.

ONLY way I see DangRUSS for next two years is just as you say, multiple PO wins.
No way I want to sign an old QB that could fall off any given moment.

Coach Tomlin always seems to be re-ACTIVE when I feel we need way more pro-ACTIVE.



Salute the nation


Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

The only way for Jones to prove it is to actually play there.

AND

Actually, given time to acclimate.


Salute the nation

 

[topseed]

With Russ? Have you watched the rest of the team?

Yes, with Russ. His passer rating (which you love to talk about) has been on the decline for 5 consecutive games now, peaking against a porous Cincinnati defense on December 1st, and bottoming out against the Chiefs on Christmas at a season-low of 65.7.

The rest of the team hasn't played well lately either. It's got to be somewhat demoralizing when your quarterback is either throwing picks or losing fumbles, and putting you further behind the 8-ball against very good opponents.

 

[topseed]

Thankfully Russ is playing himself out of the role.

That's the only solace I can take in this embarrassing three-game losing streak: The Steelers have had to come to realize that they CANNOT bring back Russ at a premium next season.

Wilson's a decent quarterback for his age, and he was one of the best bargains in the NFL in 2024 at a salary of $1.21 million. But he is not good enough to take a team like the Steelers anywhere in the playoffs, and allocating 25x or 20x or even 15x what he's making now against the 2025 cap makes little sense.

 

[Troglodyte]

Translation: During the 13 game stretch, we played 2 worthy opponents. Pancake schedule. When the competition stiffened, DisastRuss showed up.



Derek Carr has a 101 passer rating. Congrats, Russ ain't even equal to Carr. You act like the difference between Russ' 97.4 rating and Justin's 93.3 is the difference between the HoF and practice squad. And it leaves out the rushing component of Justin's game (including his 5 rushing TDs in 6 starts.

Lamar Jackson's 121.6 is eye popping.



Yep, and he's lost 3 in a row to some of those great pass defenses, showing - he can't get the job done when it matters. Thanks for making my point.

He's won games against teams that are a combined 37 Wins and 43 Losses. And one of those wins was against Baltimore, where he posted an eye popping 67.5 rating with 0 TDs, 1 pick and 4 sacks.



Or 3-13 Cleveland. But who's counting?

Thankfully Russ is playing himself out of the role.

Wilson averages 12% more yards/attempt, 27% more yard/game, 58% more TDs/game, has a lower sack % AND gives up less yards per sack.

You can pretend that Fields would have somehow played better over the losing streak against the leagues best teams but that’s based on selective memory and not anything he’s done this season or in his career.

 

[Steelersfan84]

I have said this from day one, This is not the Seattle Seahawks Russle Wilson. There is no doubt that he has some skill but he need a SB ready team. he can not win in spite of Tomlin like Ben did, he also can no longer put a team on his back and lead them to victory.

His 5'10" height didn't seem to be a problem when he was in seattle. He has happy feet now and is just waiting for the next sack. hell in all honesty he should have had another pic six today. you can't blame the bad passes, Int's and fumbles on the Oline or coaching, those are all bad decisions by Wilson.

Funny, cause that's the only way Tomlin can win too!

 

[black and gold apex]

Fans are at unrest because of losing to three teams we all thought we would not beat last May. Wison as well as Field's have been Steelers, no complaints nothing negative from either. We have a young line that have hit a wall with amount of games, we have a poor reciving crew. The defensive secondary has not held up. Wilson is far from our weaknesses. Our offense does not getinto a flow, we make two plays and then negative plays. Wilson is not the scapegoat.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

I am unrest because we flat out look like sh1t the last 3 games. Just dog door doo. Then I read. We don't need to change anything, just go back to basics And concentrate on communication. Wtf. Watch Tomlin in last episode of hard knocks , preaching about communication. Either that's not the problem or they aren't listening to you. Either way! They're ******.

 

[Confluence]

Steelers have very clear roster holes on O at WR, OT and QB. None of Wilson, Moore or Jefferson should be starters next year.

None should be paid starter money. Each may be a competent b/u for a true starter or even for a developmental guy, but Tomlin has demonstrated the same lack of game development by doggedly sticking with Moore/Wilson over the young guys brought in to develop at their position.

Jefferson is a FO failure, but his playing time vs Wiiliams while down multiple scores is beyond headscratching.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Steelers have very clear roster holes on O at WR, OT and QB. None of Wilson, Moore or Jefferson should be starters next year.

None should be paid starter money. Each may be a competent b/u for a true starter or even for a developmental guy, but Tomlin has demonstrated the same lack of game development by doggedly sticking with Moore/Wilson over the young guys brought in to develop at their position.

Jefferson is a FO failure, but his playing time vs Wiiliams while down multiple scores is beyond headscratching.

I've said it many of times, Coach Tomlin is more about RE-action than he is about PRO-action.

Clearly Moore should have been moved to RT (regardless of what some say, and JONES should have been made LT from day one of drafting him. Same goes for ZacK at center.

If that would have happened, we'd be in way less problem than we are now. Currently you have a patch-work OL (except C& LG). I like the RG's play and that was done through necessity.

I also want to acknowledge the root of our OL woes start at the OL coaching. Our OL hasn't improved even with the high draft capital (C is solid, but yet to see if that is coaching or player based). Being coached up, just isn't happening on this OL, and that has been a problem for as long as Meyers has been here.


Salute the nation

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Speaking of Fantasy Football posts

Wilson averages 12% more yards/attempt, 27% more yard/game, 58% more TDs/game, has a lower sack % AND gives up less yards per sack.

Wrong.

Fields - 6 games started, 16 sacks, 2.66 sacks per game.
Wilson - 10 games started, 29 sacks, 2.9 sacks per game.

You can pretend that Fields would have somehow played better over the losing streak against the leagues best teams but that’s based on selective memory and not anything he’s done this season or in his career.

We will never know what would have happened. As I've said before, I believe we would have beaten BAL in the 2nd game if Justin was in. Russ literally cost us 14 points in that game.

You pretend like 26 year old Russ is out there and refuse to accept what your eyes see. Russ is done.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Speaking of Fantasy Football posts



Wrong.

Fields - 6 games started, 16 sacks, 2.66 sacks per game.
Wilson - 10 games started, 29 sacks, 2.9 sacks per game.



We will never know what would have happened. As I've said before, I believe we would have beaten BAL in the 2nd game if Justin was in. Russ literally cost us 14 points in that game.

You pretend like 26 year old Russ is out there and refuse to accept what your eyes see. Russ is done.

Agree

I'm also torn a little on this upcoming Bungle game. With their bad "D", Russ should have a field day. Alot is based on their DE (Franklin I think) being contained similar to the last game they played. It's a hard decision for Coach Tomlin as to who to start, because it's a could go either way decision for right or wrong.


Salute the nation

 

[Troglodyte]

Speaking of Fantasy Football posts

Wrong.

Fields - 6 games started, 16 sacks, 2.66 sacks per game.
Wilson - 10 games started, 29 sacks, 2.9 sacks per game.

Sacks per game? You continue to struggle with statistics. Divide the sacks by pass attempts and get back to me. Wilson gets sacked less and for less yards lost.

We will never know what would have happened. As I've said before, I believe we would have beaten BAL in the 2nd game if Justin was in. Russ literally cost us 14 points in that game.

You pretend like 26 year old Russ is out there and refuse to accept what your eyes see. Russ is done.

No, I think that of the two QBs, the one who has had the best performances THIS year, and has had a far more productive career, didn’t suddenly and rapidly deteriorate. He struggled against some of the NFLs best teams with below average or dysfunctional receivers, a below average offensive line, and a terribly underperforming, overpaid defense. In no way does that convince me that Fields would somehow have played better.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

With their bad "D", Russ should have a field day. Alot is based on...

....how many turnovers and sacks Russ has.

If he can abandon his dumb mistakes and awful turnovers that have plagued him for the past month, he "should".

Should.

I'm as hopeful as a Steeler fan entering December for the past 15 years though.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Sacks per game? You continue to struggle with statistics. Divide the sacks by pass attempts and get back to me. Wilson gets sacked less and for less yards lost.

You didn't specify the measurement. You simply threw out a stat. Russ takes more sacks per game. That's absolute. snaps taken or not, he statistically takes more sacks per game that end up on the stat sheet that kill drives. His *** is on the ground more times a game that hurt this team.

No, I think that of the two QBs, the one who has had the best performances THIS year, and has had a far more productive career, didn’t suddenly and rapidly deteriorate.

He has. You'd be wise to trust your eyes.

He struggled against some of the NFLs best teams with below average or dysfunctional receivers, a below average offensive line, and a terribly underperforming, overpaid defense. In no way does that convince me that Fields would somehow have played better.

The defense has nothing to do with his arm and the terrible throws he makes, or the fumbles he gives away.
The WRs had nothing to do with his greedy, dumb decision to try to get to the endzone against BAL but instead fumbling it away.
Many of his picks are due to dumb decisions, not WRs running the wrong routes.

Re: the OL, that makes the point for someone like Justin being back there. Until the OL is fixed, you want mobility. Not a man in a walker who persistently turns his back to the rush, and sometimes just puts the ball on the ground to stop himself from falling before giving up a gift.



And the sacks? They are his fault. Education below:

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Hom...r-his-own-pressures-with-steelers-data-shows/

You can't blame the OL for Russ's poor decision making constantly making them look like the culprits.

 

[Troglodyte]

You didn't specify the measurement. You simply threw out a stat. Russ takes more sacks per game. That's absolute. snaps taken or not, he statistically takes more sacks per game that end up on the stat sheet that kill drives. His *** is on the ground more times a game that hurt this team.

There’s a reason they use pass attempts as the denominator, Tim. QB 1 has 20 pass attempts and gets sacked 3 times. QB 2 has 40 pass attempts and gets sacked 4 times. Are you really arguing that QB 1 gets sacked less often? Perspective eludes you.

He has. You'd be wise to trust your eyes.

I do trust that my eyes have witnessed the pocket quickly collapse around him early and often.

The defense has nothing to do with his arm and the terrible throws he makes, or the fumbles he gives away.
The WRs had nothing to do with his greedy, dumb decision to try to get to the endzone against BAL but instead fumbling it away.
Many of his picks are due to dumb decisions, not WRs running the wrong routes.

He plays the most important position on the field. When the rest of team is struggling he could be inclined to play a riskier and more aggressive brand of QB.

Re: the OL, that makes the point for someone like Justin being back there. Until the OL is fixed, you want mobility. Not a man in a walker who persistently turns his back to the rush, and sometimes just puts the ball on the ground to stop himself from falling before giving up a gift.

Not if it hurts your passing game. Mobility helps but you can’t game plan around hoping your QB makes plays with his feet when pressured.

View attachment 13650

And the sacks? They are his fault. Education below:

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Hom...r-his-own-pressures-with-steelers-data-shows/

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View attachment 13654

You can't blame the OL for Russ's poor decision making constantly making them look like the culprits.

So he has 122 pressures, and because he missed six games, a lot less pass attempts than those other QBs listed, and both of his OTs are >20%. I rest my case

 

[Punxsutawney]

And the sacks? They are his fault. Education below:

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Hom...r-his-own-pressures-with-steelers-data-shows/

View attachment 13652
View attachment 13651
View attachment 13653


View attachment 13654

You can't blame the OL for Russ's poor decision making constantly making them look like the culprits.

I'm not really sure that statistic is as valid an indicator as you seem to think when it suggests that Patrick Mahomes is as clueless in the backfield as you make Russ out to be.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

There’s a reason they use pass attempts as the denominator, Tim. QB 1 has 20 pass attempts and gets sacked 3 times. QB 2 has 40 pass attempts and gets sacked 4 times. Are you really arguing that QB 1 gets sacked less often? Perspective eludes you.

They don't say that TJ Watt gets 2.7 sacks per game when summarizing his sack totals for the year. There is a difference between absolute, recorded stats (Russ was sacked 4 times in this game) v efficiency statistics based on a rate.

We are discussing returns. Russ is on the ground more times per game than Justin.

I do trust that my eyes have witnessed the pocket quickly collapse around him early and often.

Which couldn't possibly be because he holds the ball too long, fails to see open receivers, and can't climb the pocket any longer. Your eyes selectively see what they want to see then.

He plays the most important position on the field. When the rest of team is struggling he could be inclined to play a riskier and more aggressive brand of QB.

That is now one of your dumbest points, and you have a HoF of them. The Defense had nothing to do with DisastRuss' interception early against the chiefs. Zero. The WRs had nothing to do with DisastRuss fumbling the ball against the Chiefs or the Ravens, as examples. You're now making up excuses to try to save your argument.

Not if it hurts your passing game. Mobility helps but you can’t game plan around hoping your QB makes plays with his feet when pressured.

And here we go in circles. If we had a Kirk Cousins or a Sam Darnold, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me about Justin likely. We have a guy you all THINK can still pass the ball, see the field, make his reads, climb the pocket, and get rid of the ball on time. Since he is failing on many/most of those things, I put in a QB who can also run.

Russ couldn't, at this point, hurt the passing game more than he has this past month.

So he has 122 pressures, and because he missed six games, a lot less pass attempts than those other QBs listed, and both of his OTs are >20%. I rest my case

You don't understand the stats. The chart shows who is responsible for a pressure.

It wouldn't matter if he had 44 attempts or 437. 23% of the time that he is pressured, PFF lays blame on him. 9% of the time, it's the Center's fault. Notice the trend in his career, where this stat has gotten a lot worse the past 3 years - i.e., holding the ball too long, etc. For all pressures against Russ this year, 23% are his sole responsibility, not the fault of anyone else.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I'm not really sure that statistic is as valid an indicator as you seem to think when it suggests that Patrick Mahomes is as clueless in the backfield as you make Russ out to be.

I know exactly what it means. Patrick and Josh cause themselves a lot of pressure (typically due to holding the ball too long) because they can.

They are younger and infinitely far better QBs than the Russ we have now. Russ doesn't have Mahome's escapability, ability to extend plays, etc, nor does he have Josh's size or running ability. Those QBs and systems leverage their raw athletic ability and extend plays leading to pressure often being blamed on them.

Russ can't do what they do and hurts us way to often for it.

 

[Troglodyte]

They don't say that TJ Watt gets 2.7 sacks per game when summarizing his sack totals for the year. There is a difference between absolute, recorded stats (Russ was sacked 4 times in this game) v efficiency statistics based on a rate.

We are discussing returns. Russ is on the ground more times per game than Justin.



Which couldn't possibly be because he holds the ball too long, fails to see open receivers, and can't climb the pocket any longer. Your eyes selectively see what they want to see then.



That is now one of your dumbest points, and you have a HoF of them. The Defense had nothing to do with DisastRuss' interception early against the chiefs. Zero. The WRs had nothing to do with DisastRuss fumbling the ball against the Chiefs or the Ravens, as examples. You're now making up excuses to try to save your argument.



And here we go in circles. If we had a Kirk Cousins or a Sam Darnold, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me about Justin likely. We have a guy you all THINK can still pass the ball, see the field, make his reads, climb the pocket, and get rid of the ball on time. Since he is failing on many/most of those things, I put in a QB who can also run.

Russ couldn't, at this point, hurt the passing game more than he has this past month.



You don't understand the stats. The chart shows who is responsible for a pressure.

It wouldn't matter if he had 44 attempts or 437. 23% of the time that he is pressured, PFF lays blame on him. 9% of the time, it's the Center's fault. Notice the trend in his career, where this stat has gotten a lot worse the past 3 years - i.e., holding the ball too long, etc. For all pressures against Russ this year, 23% are his sole responsibility, not the fault of anyone else.

No, I undertand that the stat is obviously subjective and far from perfect, quite possibly garbage - notice anything strange about the cumulative percentage?

I also understand that you’re arguing that the NFL’s best QBs often create their own pressure but it’s somehow bad when Wilson does it.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Wilson hasn't been great this year, but there has been some good.



While Wilson doesn't avoid sacks, he hasn't been responsible for many either.