Study: More Than Half of Trans Male Teens Attempt Suicide

[Tim Steelersfan]

Jerry Sandusky, his victim and Mike McQuerry were in a gender specific locker room.

This guy was on a highway that specifically prohibited driving while intoxicated:

98% of all mass shootings have been in gun free zones.

I could go on. None of that means, because these things happen, that we rescind the laws associated with these crimes. We don't say "well people still drive drunk and kill people therefore drunk driving laws are stupid." Establish rules and laws and enforce them.

 

[Superman]

In simple, pragmatic terms, how do you suggest this be accomplished? As far as weeding out the cross-dressers, tranvestites and pedos? Have someone sitting outside each and every public bathroom in the United States and do a reach under women's skirts to make sure they don't have a dick & a ballsack? Install TSA body imaging scanners outside every bathroom?

You tell me, are these men or women?

Jerry Sandusky, his victim and Mike McQuerry were in a gender specific locker room.

look at you two. its like neither of you have the official party statement in front of you, so you're quite literally grasping at anything.

first, tibs - like tim said, we have societal rules. males use the restroom designated for males. females use the restroom designated for females. if there is cause for alarm, then this can be reported. by removing the societal rules of males using male designated restrooms and females using female designated restrooms, then quite literally anyone can walk into any restroom they so "identify as" at that particular moment.

and there you go again, dipping back into the cross-dresser/drag queen issue again. which was not, and has never been, the point of this.

secondly - toolodyte, did I not quite literally just say we already have crimes occurring in gender-specific restrooms? thank you for double-dipping in this, as you 100% supported my statement. now imagine, if you would, a public restroom where anyone can just walk in and molest children based on the gender they identify as at that moment? we're talking not only sexual molesting, child rape, pedophilia, but also child abductions, violence and anything thereafter.

yet you seem content to allow this to happen. that's a ****** up mentality you have.

 

[Superman]

oh, and "if it saves just one life" must not have a **** of credibility from either of you from this point forward. that bridge is burned.

 

[Tibs]

So children that have parents determining their 3 year old is transgender and raising them as such are not victims? Children that have their parents administering hormonal therapy before they are 10 are not victims? Odd.

No, parents shouldn't determine anything like that for a 3-year old, that's not right, but seems like an extreme case. Is this really a nationwide, widespread, prevelant problem?

Take for instance some kid who is constantly drawn and attracted to girls' clothing and make-up and simply feels like being a girl? What do you do then? If that's what makes him happy. That's what makes him feel good 'in his skin.' That's what feels natural to him, without any type of outside influence. Are you suggesting a parent should determine that's not right for their son? I don't know the answer to that. Nor do I know what age is the right age where you say, **** it, the kid wants to be a girl, let him be a girl. I've read so many horror stories of gay and transgender kids who's lives were destroyed by overzealous parents forcing their wills on them. I think it's a case by case situation that takes a lot of love, attention and caring to try to guide your child to find his or her way.

My three teenaged kids don't have gender identity issues, so it's not something I've faced or had to deal with. But I don't judge or condemn parents who choose to let their kids explore these identity issues, if indeed it's somethng that's important to them. Same goes for kids that come out as gay/lesbian. Are you gonna lock them in a closet or not feed them until they change that up and be the way you want them to be? But I agree wholeheartedly none of this should be forced onto or glorified for any young person. It's a fine line, no doubt.

At the end of the day 98% of the world's population identifies as heterosexual. What the remaining 2% of the population does or doesn't do, well I'll leave it up to them to figure it out.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

In simple, pragmatic terms, how do you suggest this be accomplished? As far as weeding out the cross-dressers, tranvestites and pedos? Have someone sitting outside each and every public bathroom in the United States and do a reach under women's skirts to make sure they don't have a dick & a ballsack? Install TSA body imaging scanners outside every bathroom?

You tell me, are these men or women?

My feeling on the matter might not be politically correct but as far as the bathroom issue if I can't tell I don't care my issue is with the men using it as a cover to get in there for nefarious reasons. I doubt any of them would look like these two. I don't have a problem believing there are people who are mentally the wrong gender as opposed to their bodies but I do have a hard time letting a parent make those decisions for their children at such a young age.

 

[IndySteel]

In simple, pragmatic terms, how do you suggest this be accomplished? As far as weeding out the cross-dressers, tranvestites and pedos? Have someone sitting outside each and every public bathroom in the United States and do a reach under women's skirts to make sure they don't have a dick & a ballsack? Install TSA body imaging scanners outside every bathroom?

You tell me, are these men or women?

Note to Steelerfan: don't say hit.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

No, parents shouldn't determine anything like that for a 3-year old, that's not right, but seems like an exteme case. Is this really a nationwide, widespread, prevelant problem?

Take for instance some kid who is constantly drawn and attracted to girls' clothing and make-up and simply feels like being a girl? What do you do then? If that's what makes him happy. That's what makes him feel good 'in his skin.' That's what feels natural to him, without any type of outside influence. Are you suggesting a parent should determine that's not right for their son? I don't know the answer to that. Nor do I know what age is the right age where you say, **** it, the kid wants to be a girl, let him be a girl. I've read so many horror stories of gay and transgender kids who's lives were destroyed by overzealous parents forcing their wills on them. I think it's a case by case situation that takes a lot of love, attention and caring to try to guide your child to find his or her way.

My three teenaged kids don't have gender identity issues, so it's not something I've faced or had to deal with. But I don't judge or condemn parents who choose to let their kids explore these identity issues, if indeed it's somethng that's important to them. But I agree wholeheartedly none of this should be forced onto or glorified for any young person. It's a fine line, no doubt.

At the end of the day 98% of the world's population identifies as heterosexual. What the remaining 2% of the population does or doesn't do, well I'll leave it up to them to figure it out.

I pretty much agree with all of that. Welcome back to the your sane personality.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Note to Steelerfan: don't say hit.

But if I can't tell I don't care!

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

No, parents shouldn't determine anything like that for a 3-year old, that's not right, but seems like an exteme case. Is this really a nationwide, widespread, prevelant problem?

Pedophilia isn't a nationwide, prevalent problem. But we have laws against it, do we not? We don't just say 'I don't give a ****, live and let live.'

Some little boy is constantly drawn and attracted to girls' clothing and make-up and simply feels like being a girl? What do you do then? If that's what makes him happy. That's what makes him feel good 'in his skin.' That's what feels natural to him, without any type of outside influence. Are you suggesting a parent should determine that's not right for their son?

You do nothing. You let them grow and figure out life on their terms. You don't "encourage" them to be straight or gay or transgender. You don't administer hormonal therapy. You don't make a life determination for them before they have a clue what they are or are going to be.

I read an article today about a 13 year old that just had a double mastectomy because of gender dysphoria. Disturbing.

But I don't judge or condemn parents who choose to let their children explore these identity issues, if indeed it's somethng that's important to them.

Nor do I, as stated above.

At the end of the day 97-98% of the world's population identifies as heterosexual. What the remaining 2% of the population does or doesn't do, well I'll leave it up to them to figure it out.

That's a noble sentiment, and one I would tend to normally agree with. However, this issue is unique, as Supe and I have pointed out for years. Our government and special interest groups have worked to accommodate the 700,000 transgender people in this country. You can do the math. They didn't "live and let live" and leave it up them to figure it out. They stepped in and forced resolutions that could be to the detriment of the rest of us.

It is unsafe to have shared restrooms and locker rooms.

It is unfair to have biological males competing in women's sports.

This is an instance where your sentiment should have applied. Leave it up to them to figure it out. Protecting the 2 one thousandths of a percent of Americans that are transgender affects the other 299,300,000 of us.

 

[Troglodyte]

This lifestyle is leading over half of the males to attempt suicide. .

You can’t conclude that. Where did it state that the study concluded it was the lifestyle that was leading them to attempt suicide and that the study controlled for other variables (being bullied or ostracized, disowned by parents, etc.)?

 

[Tibs]

This is an instance where your sentiment should have applied. Leave it up to them to figure it out. Protecting the 2 one thousandths of a percent of Americans that are transgender affects the other 299,300,000 of us.

Sure, but how is any of this really affecting you? Sorry, I just don't see the huge impact this is having on our lives, one way or another. Maybe you have to deal with transvestites, transgenders and pedos on a daily basis, mucking up your life, and if so, I'm sorry. I guess I just don't see why this is a constant topic and point of contention for you.

 

[Troglodyte]

None of that means, because these things happen, that we rescind the laws associated with these crimes. We don't say "well people still drive drunk and kill people therefore drunk driving laws are stupid." Establish rules and laws and enforce them.

The bathroom law was about creating a law, and an uninforcable law at that. Not rescinding a law. Howver, I would be delighted to hear your ideas on how it would be enforced...

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

You can’t conclude that. Where did it state that the study concluded it was the lifestyle that was leading them to attempt suicide and that the study controlled for other variables (being bullied or ostracized, disowned by parents, etc.)?

Are you a transgender? Your incessant and weak defenses make me wonder.

More than half of males that ARE transgender attempt suicide.

Higher than I believe any other demographic.

So you answer, why do you think it is?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-face-high-rates--suicide-attempts/31626633/

M.C. Lampe couldn't take any more bullying. Not one more homophobic taunt. Not one more classmate refusing to sit at a nearby desk or change clothes within view at gym. So the devastated 9th grader brought a knife to school and vowed: "If someone else says something, I'm done."

Someone did say something — and Lampe went to the high school bathroom and slit both wrists.

Suicide attempts are alarmingly common among transgender individuals such as Lampe; 41% try to kill themselves at some point in their lives, compared with 4.6% of the general public. The numbers come from a study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute, which analyzed results from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. Researchers are preparing to launch another version of the online survey on Wednesday.

You can try to spin this on a needle to make some obscure point. The facts are the facts. We may not specifically know why, but transgenders attempt suicide at an alarming rate at least 9 times higher than the rest of the population.

So what is your point?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Sure, but how is any of this really affecting you? Sorry, I just don't see the huge impact this is having on our lives, one way or another. Maybe you have to deal with transvestites, transgenders and pedos on a daily basis, mucking up your life, and if so, I'm sorry. I guess I just don't see why this is a constant topic and point of contention for you.

Tibs, if I used your logic, how did Daniel Choi using handguns killing 32 people affect you? What impact did it have on your life? It had none on mine or yours.

This is the basis of your argument in this post..........

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

The bathroom law was about creating a law, and an uninforcable law at that. Not rescinding a law. Howver, I would be delighted to hear your ideas on how it would be enforced...

Quite aware, thanks Captain Obvious.

How do we enforce drunk driving laws?

 

[Tibs]

More than half of males that ARE transgender attempt suicide.

And you are doubled over in pain with deep concern for 'the 2 one thousandths of a percent of Americans that are transgender?' Were you into rare stamp collecting as a kid? Or found yourself spending hours on end studying extinct languages from the early 5th century? Still trying to pinpoint relevancy here, though no doubt you have your reasons.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

And you are doubled over in pain and deep concern regarding 'the 2 one thousandths of a percent of Americans that are transgender?' Were you into rare stamp collecting as a kid? Or found yourself spending hours on end studying extinct languages from the early 5th century? Still trying to pinpoint relevancy here, though no doubt you have your reasons.

Despite what you think of me Tibs, and to Supe's prior point about "us" I do care about human beings. And I don't just talk it, I walk it.

And to your side's point...if it saves just one life.

I was raised to believe all lives matter.

Stop questioning why I care. That's just a diversion away from the discussion.

 

[ark steel]

I've known two people in my life who went through sex changes (man to woman). One ended up eating a bullet and the other seems very happy now.

In both cases, people who had known them for years hadn't realized they had gender issues. For the first one, I think he met the definition of multiple underlying problems and, I'm surprised he made it through the psychological piece of the sex change process. For the second one, he seemed like a perfectly well adjusted man and seems like a well adjusted woman, now.

 

[IndySteel]

Does it make Flog transgender since ze sits when ze pees?

 

[Superman]

And you are doubled over in pain and deep concern regarding 'the 2 one thousandths of a percent of Americans that are transgender?' Were you into rare stamp collecting as a kid? Or found yourself spending hours on end studying extinct languages from the early 5th century? Still trying to pinpoint relevancy here, though no doubt you have your reasons.

the relevancy is that the suicide rate among those enduring this is awfully high.

the irrelevant factor is that allowing them to choose their restroom will make them more accepted. more to the point, pedophiles will abuse this and harm children. or rapists can use this and rape women. that is the point.

additionally, more should be done to determine why someone suffers from sexual misgender instead of reassigning their sex.

 

[Tibs]

Tibs, if I used your logic, how did Daniel Choi using handguns killing 32 people affect you? What impact did it have on your life? It had none on mine or yours. This is the basis of your argument in this post..........

Try to wrap your head around this. If you asked any American parent which is a bigger concern, school shootings or the threat of transgenders/pedos abusing public bathroom ordinances, take a wild guess what the answer would be. And I'm not talking about extremist, born-again Christians, or what the Breitbart readership thinks. Just an average American parent living anywhere in the States right now. The answer would be skewered a million to one. Our resources are limited, there's only so much you can police, there's only so many laws you can pass and enforce. Common sense gun laws may make a dent in school shootings and help make kids feel safe again. Maybe that's worth a try. Not sure the same can be said for public bathroom laws, which seem to have little to no enforceability.

Big picture stuff, Tim, big picture stuff.

And btw I can't recall anyone on this board putting up a huge fight over this bathroom issue. Sure, men should use the men's bathroom, women the women's. If some place wants to add a 'neutral' facility, so be it. If a man walks into a women's bathroom, that's unacceptable. If some transgender or transvestite man who looks, walks and acts like a woman enters the women's bathroom, nobody would even notice. They **** and piss, adjust their dress and walk right out. It probably happens every day, all over the world. Now, the tiny sliver of the population who abuse these norms, and try to sneak into bathrooms will ill intentions? They should be charged and arrested, or beat the **** up by anyone who catches them. But what are we talking about here? The large majority of pedos are friggin' coaches or priests who walk around in broad daylight and have constant access to kids. It's puzzling why your focus is soley on that teeny, tiny sliver of transgenders who may or not have any type of criminal intent. Bizzare.

 

[JMM]

The bathroom debate has been so wildly overplayed by the politicians and some school boards (and higher ed) it makes me think of this skit.

 

[oneforthebus]

I think there's some middle ground here.

I totally agree with Tibs on live and let live, don't force anything on your kids, but unfortunately we've swung so far the other way that if you even suggest that a gender confused kid might need therapy or is attention seeking or something you are some kind of right-wing fundamentalist bigot.

There is no room for any dissent from the current liberal ideology that all gender issues are just normal states of being that people are born with and that any intervention is wrong and the result of bigotry.

Sadly I know kids who are just messed up in other ways that I am convinced use gender identity as a way to rebel, get attention, whatever. I also know kids who I believe were really and truly born that way. Too bad that we aren't allowed to even explore the question anymore and get kids some real help and guidance with it. Your kid wants to wear a dress one day? He's a girl. Don't believe it? You're a bigot.

But of course we also can't ignore that being ostracized and rejected contributes to depression.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Try to wrap your head around this. If you asked any American parent which is a bigger concern, school shootings or the threat of transgenders/pedos abusing public bathroom ordinances, take a wild guess what the answer would be. And I'm not talking about extremist, born-again Christians, or what the Breitbart readership thinks. Just an average American parent living anywhere in the States right now. The answer would be skewered a million to one. Our resources are limited, there's only so much you can police, there's only so many laws you can pass and enforce. Common sense gun laws may make a dent in school shootings and help make kids feel safe again. Maybe that's worth a try. Not sure the same can be said for public bathroom laws, which seem to have little to no enforceability.

Big picture stuff, Tim, big picture stuff.

And btw I can't recall anyone on this board putting up a huge fight over this bathroom issue. Sure, men should use the men's bathroom, women the women's. If some place wants to add a 'neutral' facility, so be it. If a man walks into a women's bathroom, that's unacceptable. If some transgender or transvestite man who looks, walks and acts like a woman enters the women's bathroom, nobody would even notice. They **** and piss, adjust their dress and walk right out. It probably happens every day, all over the world. Now, the tiny sliver of the population who abuse these norms, and try to sneak into bathrooms will ill intentions? They should be charged and arrested, or beat the **** up by anyone who catches them. But what are we talking about here? The large majority of pedos are friggin' coaches or priests who walk around in broad daylight and have constant access to kids. It's puzzling why your focus is soley on that teeny, tiny sliver of transgenders who may or not have any type of criminal intent. Bizzare.

You have got to be kidding me...

OK so originally your argument was about these issues "affecting" you. You argue that the transgender issue doesn't affect me. And I pointed out that neither do school shootings. They do not and have not affected you.

So you shift directions instead from what "affects" you to "what Americans care more about."

OK next argument....

Do Americans care more about school shootings? Sure they do, because the media sensationlizes them. The fact remains that from Sandy Hook in 2012 until Feb of this year, 138 people died in school shootings.

138 deaths is big picture stuff (23 deaths per year)? Got it.

Let's be real. We are discussing "small picture" stuff when you look at the facts. SMALL ******* picture.

I could argue that nearly 800,000 students are abducted each year....which they are. That **** is big picture. And allowing any gender to enter women's dressing rooms, locker rooms, showers and restrooms unfettered increases the chances of abductions. This isn't about the scant # of transgenders, they are not the problem. The problem is those nefarious individuals that do and will abuse the policies because they make it easier for them to be voyeurs, stalkers, peepers, rapists, abductors etc, and so on.

 

[Steeltime]

Try to wrap your head around this. If you asked any American parent which is a bigger concern, school shootings or the threat of transgenders/pedos abusing public bathroom ordinances, take a wild guess what the answer would be.

And those parents would be demonstrably ill-informed and wrong.

• Nearly 70% of all reported sexual assaults (including assaults on adults) occur to children ages 17 and under.[SUP]9,10[/SUP] Youths have higher rates of sexual assault victimization than do adults. In 2000, the rate for youths aged 12 to 17 was 2.3 times higher than for adults.
• 44% of rapes with penetration occur to children under age 18. Victims younger than 12 accounted for 15% of those raped, and another 29% of rape victims were between 12 and 17.
• Family members also accounted for 23% of those abusing children ages 12 to 17.
• Therefore, non-family members - i.e., strangers - account for 77% of sexual abuse of children ages 12 to 17.
• About one in 10 children will be sexually abused before his or her 18th birthday.
• Therefore, approximately 7.7% of children ages 12 to 17 will be sexually abused by a stranger.

https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/all_statistics_20150619.pdf

The Parkland shooting last month has energized student activists, who are angry and frustrated over gun violence. But it's also contributed to the impression that school shootings are a growing epidemic in America. In truth, they're not.

"Schools are safer today than they had been in previous decades," says James Alan Fox, a professor of criminology at Northeastern University who has studied the phenomenon of mass murder since the 1980s. Fox and doctoral student Emma Fridel crunched the numbers, and the results should come as a relief to parents.

https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/...e-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/

That means the statistical likelihood of any given public school student being killed by a gun, in school, on any given day since 1999 was roughly 1 in 614,000,000. And since the 1990s, shootings at schools have been getting less common.

The chance of a child being shot and killed in a public school is extraordinarily low. Not zero — no risk is. But it’s far lower than many people assume, especially in the glare of heart-wrenching news coverage after an event like Parkland. And it's far lower any other mortality risk a kid faces, including traveling to and from school, catching a potentially deadly disease while in school or suffering a life-threatening injury playing interscholastic sports.

Since Columbine, approximately 200 public school students have been shot to death while school was in session, including the recent slaughter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...bf9d112159c_story.html?utm_term=.bb4ee8885124

1 in 614,000,000 works out to ... 0.00000002% (rounded up) for ALL shootings at school, or much lower than the odds of getting struck by lightning - twice.

Your odds of being struck by lightning twice in your lifetime are 1 in 9 million

https://www.cbs17.com/news/odds-of-...-than-being-hit-by-lightning-twice/1082701256

1 in 614,000,000 for being the victim of a mass shooting at school, vs. 7% of children 12-17 being subjected to sexual molestation by a stranger.

Therefore, parents who worry more about school shootings than they do molestation by strangers are idiots. Morons. Imbeciles. Nitwits. Dummies. Dupes. Hoggies, who need Huggies.

Just the facts.

And once again, you're welcome.