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The End of the American Experiment

wig

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Like a spoiled teenager, incapable or unwilling to listen to her parents, this country is finally failing, dropping out and the best we can hope for is to be allowed to move back in with our parents.

Our pathetic attempt at “democracy” has failed. We cannot govern ourselves. We can’t even balance a budget. What hope does this failed experiment have of reaching a mature and responsible place of leadership in the world? To suggest that Trump, or Obama or Bush or Clinton are at fault is entirely too myopic. The failings in our political system are so endemic and widespread they are impossible to root out. We have created an oligarchy of millionaires who care only for increasing their own power base. One of the greatest ironies in world history is that Kruschev was completely correct. American Capitalism is a dead end because the unbridled corruption of our corporatocracy is relentless and insatiable.

Eventually there will be no middle class excepting that which survives on their credit card debt. And when that debt finally comes due, the largest economic segment in the country will be completely wiped out in moments. 89% of Americans have no net value to speak of, literally. Racial tension in the country is as high as it has been since the 60’s. Tremendous effort and marketing has been focused on undermining every shred of allegiance to the symbols of power and respect in this country. The Constitution, the office of the Presidency, our historic landmarks have all been shredded. In fact they’ve been destroyed beyond repair.

This country will never again hold respect for the office of the president. In fact there is no point in typing the word in upper case anymore. No national landmark is safe from vandalism or destruction on the grounds of being discriminatory or offensive to some segment of the population. The Viet Nam War Memorial in Washington is a grim reminder of the horrific crimes American perpetrated on innocent Vietnamese far away and in many peoples minds should be defaced or destroyed. And who are we do argue the point? After all, we have thousands of Vietnamese American citizens who’s ancestors were killed or injured in that war.

No, political correctness has gone so far awry here due to our foolish policies of acceptance and tolerance that we are now a country with no clear persona. It is no strength to be a great mixing pot. We once thought it was. But now, it has become clear that the toxic mixture of a multitude of disingenuous peoples and cultures have poisoned the very soil we walk upon. This country is doomed. There can be no compromise, no happy and peaceful co-habitation. The more violent and powerful race will always dominate. This is nature we’re talking about. Darwin knew the score. Is it confusing to anyone that other countries don’t allow unfettered immigration? Does it come as a shock to you that Iran, Iraq, Jerusalem, Syria and other middle eastern countries don’t allow hordes of foreign immigrants into their countries? Would it surprise you to learn that countries like Japan and China focus intently on being extraordinarily homogenous in their cultural standards?

It’s not that I’m against multiculturalism. That’s not what I’m trying to point out here. America is what it is. A choice was made over 200 years ago and we allowed everyone in. At that time, it was expected that people would embrace the concept of the new world and they would become “Americans” to better their own lives and forward the ambitions of the country as a whole. But along the way everyone lost their focus. Things became muddled. Instead of America and Americans, we became a country of mutts. African Americans and Asian Americans and Mexican Americans and even Native Americans which later became American Indians. We all forgot that at one time we were Americans.

And now that’s all gone. Now we don’t know what we are, but we’ll never be Americans again. That isn’t going to happen. Because it’s a global world. And the money isn’t in “Americans”. It’s in turmoil and infighting and campaigning to fix things that our politicians continue to purposefully break. And sadly we are stupid enough to continue electing the same leeches over and over again. Why?

Because we aren’t Americans. We’re something else. Maybe you’re an African American or a European American. Maybe like me you’re a “Montana”. Maybe your Italian American or Asian American. But honestly, you aren’t American anymore. And that’s too bad. It used to be a hell of a country but the spoiled little brat just failed to grow up.
 
Oh, we know who we are.

You just don't want to accept that conservative whites have become the minority. There is no loss of American identity, we're the same country we always were. America was always racist. It just didn't blow back on conservative whites the way it does now. And you're having a hard time adjusting.

As for the failures of our government, a great lot of that has do with our media. The Huff Po, Brietbart, Salon, Buzzfeed, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, MSNBC and of course Fox News: they all have the same business model. Appeal to the angry fringes rather than discuss thing rationally in the middle. They see their viewers/readers/listeners not as citizens to be informed but as customers to be serviced. The carve out ethnic, religious and geographic domains and play to the rage and fear of those targets. These fired up souls then vote for extreme candidates like Trump and Sanders. Anyone taking a responsible centrist view is called a RINO or worse.

Step back from the brink. Listen to some more moderate voices. Listen to the people in the tech fields that are actually trying to solve problems like hunger, cancer, and addiction. Turn off the bombastic loudmouths and find some reasonable people to talk to.

America and the American dream are alive and well. Get your head out of your ideology and stop getting pissed off at everyone who disagrees with you. There's more common ground than you think if you'd be a little more open minded.
 
Oh, we know who we are.

You just don't want to accept that conservative whites have become the minority. There is no loss of American identity, we're the same country we always were. America was always racist. It just didn't blow back on conservative whites the way it does now. And you're having a hard time adjusting.

As for the failures of our government, a great lot of that has do with our media. The Huff Po, Brietbart, Salon, Buzzfeed, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, MSNBC and of course Fox News: they all have the same business model. Appeal to the angry fringes rather than discuss thing rationally in the middle. They see their viewers/readers/listeners not as citizens to be informed but as customers to be serviced. The carve out ethnic, religious and geographic domains and play to the rage and fear of those targets. These fired up souls then vote for extreme candidates like Trump and Sanders. Anyone taking a responsible centrist view is called a RINO or worse.

Step back from the brink. Listen to some more moderate voices. Listen to the people in the tech fields that are actually trying to solve problems like hunger, cancer, and addiction. Turn off the bombastic loudmouths and find some reasonable people to talk to.

America and the American dream are alive and well. Get your head out of your ideology and stop getting pissed off at everyone who disagrees with you. There's more common ground than you think if you'd be a little more open minded.

You consistently lump all white conservatives together as racists and you're going to preach to us about being open minded? Try taking some of your own advice.
 
Oh, we know who we are.

You just don't want to accept that conservative whites have become the minority. There is no loss of American identity, we're the same country we always were. America was always racist. It just didn't blow back on conservative whites the way it does now. And you're having a hard time adjusting.

As for the failures of our government, a great lot of that has do with our media. The Huff Po, Brietbart, Salon, Buzzfeed, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, MSNBC and of course Fox News: they all have the same business model. Appeal to the angry fringes rather than discuss thing rationally in the middle. They see their viewers/readers/listeners not as citizens to be informed but as customers to be serviced. The carve out ethnic, religious and geographic domains and play to the rage and fear of those targets. These fired up souls then vote for extreme candidates like Trump and Sanders. Anyone taking a responsible centrist view is called a RINO or worse.

Step back from the brink. Listen to some more moderate voices. Listen to the people in the tech fields that are actually trying to solve problems like hunger, cancer, and addiction. Turn off the bombastic loudmouths and find some reasonable people to talk to.

America and the American dream are alive and well. Get your head out of your ideology and stop getting pissed off at everyone who disagrees with you. There's more common ground than you think if you'd be a little more open minded.

This is your quote. Doesn't sound like America to me. No respect for authority, blaming everyone else for problems, police doing their jobs is malfeasance, etc. etc. We're done.

Culturally, Black people don't have much respect for established authority. You should consider that it's because they were denied basic human rights for the majority of this country's history. That doesn't wash away overnight. When you complicate it by letting dirty cops walk on obvious misconduct, misconduct caught on tape, it tends erode what credibility that established authority has. Thus the lack of trust/cooperation between Blacks and the system. I don't think it's irreparable, but so long as conservatives insist on enabling police malfeasance there will be no change to the status quo. Throw in drug prohibition and you're throwing napalm on a tire fire.
 
30 years of identity politics have split large portions of the population off into grievance groups that do not identify as Americans any more. We are no longer one nation, we are now those are Americans first and nothing else and those who are hyphenated subgroups first and Americans second if at all. We are coming to the tipping point of a Balkan style civil war here in the USA thanks to the political left.
 
You consistently lump all white conservatives together as racists and you're going to preach to us about being open minded? Try taking some of your own advice.

Again: why are the vast majority of slave states Red? Because that's where conservatives live. The states that voted en masse for the Dixiecrat conservatives now vote in block for the Republican Alt Right.

You can see racism when Blacks do it. But you ignore it when your own people do it.

30 years of identity politics have split large portions of the population off into grievance groups that do not identify as Americans any more. We are no longer one nation, we are now those are Americans first and nothing else and those who are hyphenated subgroups first and Americans second if at all. We are coming to the tipping point of a Balkan style civil war here in the USA thanks to the political left.

So what makes the conservative white "grievance group" any different from the rest of us?
 
Have you even read what you wrote? Seems to me you are the one pissing on anyone who disagrees with you.
 
You're wrong. I don't think you even know what the "American Dream" is. The American dream was to come to a country where you could work ridiculously hard, do better than your competitors and make a living.

Which Mexicans are doing and doing well. So conservatives want to deport them for it.

Where you might be able to provide for your family and possibly your children could do better than you. Today people assume that they will be given free health care, free retirement, free cell phones. This is not the American Dream.

Free retirement? You are aware that the post-war free world was built AFTER Social Security was enacted. As for health care, I am of the mind that both sides have this one wrong. It's not a right and it's not a product. It's infrastructure. We have "socialized" education, police, fire service, roads and military. You gotta have cops, schools and firemen. You also gotta have hospitals and retirement homes.

You mentioned that the vast majority of "slave states" are red. This is because the Republicans freed the slaves. The Democrats never wanted the slaves freed. You know this. But once you argue my point, I'll do you one better.

Revisionist history. The Dixiecrats voted against the Republicans BECAUSE of Lincoln. When Kennedy and LBJ turned the party Left on civil rights, they followed Strom Thurmond over to the Republican side. Democrat or Republican, the slavers and segregationists were always CONSERVATIVES.

It's not the diversity of this country that has destroyed it. It's the lack of unity. And that's not on Trump. No matter how hard you all try to focus on him. Or the republicans. This is an endemic problem with our entire philosophy. It just doesn't work. You can't put that many people together with different cultural backgrounds and expect them to all abandon their ties and go all in for America.

I never said it was on Trump. I think the number one problem in American politics is our divisive media. It is MASSIVELY PROFITABLE to separate people. To push the apart ideologically. Do you know how much Tucker Carlson makes in a year? Think NFL QB money. They make a **** ton of money keeping you all stirred up and angry. And they fudge facts and awful lot. And yes, the left does it too. That is where we need real change. The massive, intentional misinformation of the voting public. We need to have honesty standards in media, and a lot of this would solve itself.

The experiment has failed. Lament it all you like. It's the truth. This election has finally demonstrated the final death throes of this diseased blighted un-unified country.

The experiment is ongoing. Again, look at our tech sector. We are still the richest, most prosperous, most innovative and inventive nation in the history of mankind. America was great long before the Orange Orangutan took office. And it will still be great long after he's eaten his last banana. We're still going strong, and will be for some time. But we do have work to do. The question is this: how do we bring back reason in a market saturated by profitable extremism?
 
LOL. So....Arizona is a slave state, huh? Wisconsin? Ohio? Pennsylvania?

Dumbass!
 
Again: why are the vast majority of slave states Red? Because that's where conservatives live. The states that voted en masse for the Dixiecrat conservatives now vote in block for the Republican Alt Right.

You can see racism when Blacks do it. But you ignore it when your own people do it.



So what makes the conservative white "grievance group" any different from the rest of us?

I have never said there is no such thing as racism.

I was born in Pittsburgh, my grandparents were Polish and Irish immigrants. My grandfathers worked for the A & P and for a salvage yard. My parents grew up in blue collar neighborhoods. I'm a white conservative and "Dixie" might as well be a foreign country to me. Just shows how "open-minded" you are if that's your perception of who all white conservatives are.
 
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LOL. So....Arizona is a slave state, huh? Wisconsin? Ohio? Pennsylvania?

Dumbass!

LOLZ!

You just named three blue states. This past Presidential election is not the only election that ever happened.

I have never said there is no such thing as racism.

I was born in Pittsburgh, my grandparents were Polish and Irish immigrants. my grandfathers worked for the A & P and for a salvage yard. My parents grew up in blue collar neighborhoods. I'm a white conservative and "Dixie" might as well be a foreign country to me. Just shows how "open-minded" you are if that's your perception of who all white conservatives are.

The heart of American racism against Blacks comes from white conservatives. Are liberals condescending at times? Certainly. But the people that outright hate Blacks live on the Right side of the political spectrum. Let's not rewrite American history here.

All white conservatives are not racist. But the overwhelming majority of white racists are conservative. Just as there is a connection between Islam and terrorism, there is a connection between conservatism and racism.
 
LOLZ!

You just named three blue states. This past Presidential election is not the only election that ever happened.



The heart of American racism against Blacks comes from white conservatives. Are liberals condescending at times? Certainly. But the people that outright hate Blacks live on the Right side of the political spectrum. Let's not rewrite American history here.

All white conservatives are not racist. But the overwhelming majority of white racists are conservative. Just as there is a connection between Islam and terrorism, there is a connection between conservatism and racism.

The overwhelming majority of people in general are not racist. But people like you can find racism in anything and everything.

Don't want open borders? Racist. Think people ought to take more responsibility for their own success and failure? Racist. Don't agree with ******** on the flag or the national anthem? Racist. Think that sometimes people bring police brutality onto themselves by their actions? Racist. Believe in the dignity and humanity of working for a living and keeping families together? Racist.

Of course you don't think it's racist to trap black kids in failing schools, You don't think it's racist to create a permanent underclass of welfare dependent generations. You don't think it's racist to push abortion as a sacrament for impoverished minorities. No of course you don't see liberals and the policies they push that destroy black communities as racist. Because you're so very open-minded.
 
The overwhelming majority of people in general are not racist. But people like you can find racism in anything and everything.

Don't want open borders? Racist. Think people ought to take more responsibility for their own success and failure? Racist. Don't agree with ******** on the flag or the national anthem? Racist. Think that sometimes people bring police brutality onto themselves by their actions? Racist. Believe in the dignity and humanity of working for a living and keeping families together? Racist.

Of course you don't think it's racist to trap black kids in failing schools, You don't think it's racist to create a permanent underclass of welfare dependent generations. You don't think it's racist to push abortion as a sacrament for impoverished minorities. No of course you don't see liberals and the policies they push that destroy black communities as racist. Because you're so very open-minded.

You're all over the place here. From your perspective, it seems, racism only occurs when someone is stabbing a Black person to death while screaming the N-word at the top of their lungs and wearing Klan robes. How can you possibly know how many people favor deportation because of race, or not? Or what cops stop and frisk discriminantly because of race or not. Because you are a white woman, you don't see what we see. The cops are not going to pull you over and tear you car apart. You don't have those experiences. We do. We see it first hand. And when we report it, you say we're liars. Or we're misunderstanding. When it get caught on tape, you make excuses for the the acts of police aggression, but not for the acts of Black aggression. That's how racism works. It's subtle.

You've decided that racism can only exist in the extreme. Anything else is just our imagination. And for that reason, racism thrives. It hides behind dog-whistle politics and creative rhetoric. You really should study Lee Atwater, the father of Willie Horton politics. He was a genius at hiding racism in plain site. When he got sick with cancer, he regretted creating these tactics. He apologized profusely before dying.
 
I gotta take a break from the politics forum for awhile.
 
Illegal immigrants, who are only exacerbating the lack of unity in this clusterfuck of a country. Why are they not becoming American citizens? Because they don't want to. They simply want to rape the financial resources they can from the country and greedy employers are only too happy to take advantage of the tax breaks they get by paying them under the table. But lets not pretend that these people are any kind of asset to "America" as a country.

This is insane paranoid bullshit strait off of some Fox News show. Dude, I grew up in East San Jose California. I've been around Mexicans ALL MY LIFE. These are poor, hardworking people who just want a better life for their kids. Just like any other American. The way these people have been slandered by the Right is disgraceful. They're just people.

Social Security has been in place, good or bad for decades. The failure of all politicians regardless of party affiliation to leave the social security money alone and allow it to build equity is a crime that should be a jailable offense. Every time they've touched that fund, they've robbed people of their potential retirement chunks. Police, Roads and Military are all accounted for in our constitution. Education and fire service... Well for that each state is technically on it's own. And health care and retirement homes. There's nothing in the constitution that says a word about that. You should depend upon your children and your own devices to contend with those needs. That's where a healthy free market comes in to play for health care and retirement. But, we've ****** that up beyond repair by allowing the insurance industry to buy our politicians and purchase the affordable healthcare act. Now, everyone has to pay a **** ton for really awful healthcare and only the insurance industry wins. God on yer politicians. I'm sure you all enjoyed the perks the insurance lobbyists floated your way. May you all be shot in the head right after you watch your families die in a gruesome manner.

Liberals and conservatives both lie. But conservatives have to tell bigger lies because they have to get people to vote against their own self interest. Frank Luntz said that. He's the Republican spin guru who invented the term "Death Tax" to re-brand the Estate Tax. The reality is this: single payer health care only hurts insurance company stockholders. If you bundled it with tax reform you could see both a reduction in your tax rates and the elimination of your health care premiums. It makes tremendous economic sense for the middle class. It also removes the burden from businesses who have to provide it. Done and done. But, the insurance industry spends a **** TON of money on politicians, lobbyists, and TV pundits to convince you that public healthcare is the same as Stalin. Which is ******* stupid.


It's not revisionist history. It's history. The Democrats didn't want to free the slaves. The Republicans did. Admittedly that was all just political bullshit. The Republicans wanted to keep the union together and slavery was the lightning rod that the rallied people around the war. But at the end, during reconstruction the parties did essentially "flip". So ironically your "Red States" were technically Democrat states originally. Democratic slave holding rat-******* mother-*******.

CONSERVATIVE Democrats didn't want to free the slaves. LIBERAL Republicans did. Again, the whole lie about D and R meaning L and C is bullshit. Those party associations happened AFTER the civil rights movement. Prior to that, there were a great many conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans.

=wig;411317]
It is too late. It is over. We are spent. We are sick of your ****. **** it. I'd rather burn it down than listen to another word of all your whining ******* ****. Seriously.

And that's why you've lost. You've given up on your country because you're too lazy to do your due diligence. What happened to that great white Protestant work ethic? If you love your country as much as you say you do, then work a little harder. Don't be such a weakling.

Anything worth having is worth working for. To me, my country is worth talking to people I don't agree with and trying to find common ground. If you haven't got that in you, then you're not really a patriot. You're a malcontent.

You're wrong. Because I swear the next mother ****** who gets in to office will have to deal with people just like me tearing down every ******* statue I can get my hands on because it's my God Given Mother ******* Right. He or She will NOT BY MY PRESIDENT.

You win. You all Win. Here's you ************* participation trophy. Show my a Hillary Rodham Clinton Statue. I'm beggin' ya.

Show me a Martin Luther King Statue. Please.

Show me a Mother Teresa Statue.

That **** offends my sensibilities as a former american.

But this is my point. Who gives a **** about statues? Or flags? Or kneeling? These are all distraction issues. We have the highest infant mortality in the developed world. Do you think protecting, or destroying a statue is going to change that? Stop listening to the Bombastic Loudmouths. Find some reasonable people who don't want to waste time on symbolic rhetorical issues and want to actually solve problems. Make compromises. Improve our great nation. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
 
You're all over the place here. From your perspective, it seems, racism only occurs when someone is stabbing a Black person to death while screaming the N-word at the top of their lungs and wearing Klan robes. How can you possibly know how many people favor deportation because of race, or not? Or what cops stop and frisk discriminantly because of race or not. Because you are a white woman, you don't see what we see. The cops are not going to pull you over and tear you car apart. You don't have those experiences. We do. We see it first hand. And when we report it, you say we're liars. Or we're misunderstanding. When it get caught on tape, you make excuses for the the acts of police aggression, but not for the acts of Black aggression. That's how racism works. It's subtle.

You've decided that racism can only exist in the extreme. Anything else is just our imagination. And for that reason, racism thrives. It hides behind dog-whistle politics and creative rhetoric. You really should study Lee Atwater, the father of Willie Horton politics. He was a genius at hiding racism in plain site. When he got sick with cancer, he regretted creating these tactics. He apologized profusely before dying.

Not my perspective at all. You see me as one extreme (you're incorrect, but whatever), I see you as the other.

I'll say it again. I'm not denying racism exists. It just isn't everywhere you see it. You call on people to be open-minded but you're not open-minded about that perception you have, at all. You can't even consider the idea that maybe some of what you see as racism, isn't anything of the sort. And some of what you see as helpful or supportive of minorities, is actually some of the most demeaning, destructive, pervasive racism that exists.
 
Not my perspective at all. You see me as one extreme (you're incorrect, but whatever), I see you as the other.

I'll say it again. I'm not denying racism exists. It just isn't everywhere you see it. You call on people to be open-minded but you're not open-minded about that perception you have, at all. You can't even consider the idea that maybe some of what you see as racism, isn't anything of the sort. And some of what you see as helpful or supportive of minorities, is actually some of the most demeaning, destructive, pervasive racism that exists.

Question. Which federal/state policy do you think has done more harm to the Black community: The War On Drugs, or Government Welfare?
 
Question. Which federal/state policy do you think has done more harm to the Black community: The War On Drugs, or Government Welfare?

Hard to quantify, and they are interrelated.

And do you really think that legalized crack and heroin is going to be some kind of boon to the black community?
 
Hard to quantify, and they are interrelated.

And do you really think that legalized crack and heroin is going to be some kind of boon to the black community?

I think the end of enforcement would. Some people are going to do dope, no matter what. I want to kill the market that drives the violence. I want to kill the market that drives the stealing. When was the last time you heard about a wino stealing to buy booze? He don't have to because he can beg for enough, or scavenge for enough to get his fix. And Christ Almighty what it's done to Mexico is a disgrace. Mass killings like the African genocides. This policy is just death, death and more death.

I thought Obama's solution to welfare was elegant. Create a civil conservation corps to employ poor people to clean up streets and work on infrastructure projects. And the Republicans killed this idea for the stupidest reason in the history of politics: They went of Fox News and told Americans that Obama was building a private army of secret police JUST LIKE THE HITLER. What in the actual **** is wrong with your side?
 
The overwhelming majority of people in general are not racist. But people like you can find racism in anything and everything.

Don't want open borders? Racist. Think people ought to take more responsibility for their own success and failure? Racist. Don't agree with ******** on the flag or the national anthem? Racist. Think that sometimes people bring police brutality onto themselves by their actions? Racist. Believe in the dignity and humanity of working for a living and keeping families together? Racist.

Of course you don't think it's racist to trap black kids in failing schools, You don't think it's racist to create a permanent underclass of welfare dependent generations. You don't think it's racist to push abortion as a sacrament for impoverished minorities. No of course you don't see liberals and the policies they push that destroy black communities as racist. Because you're so very open-minded.

You have captured SV's pseudo intellectual blather to a T.
 
Hard to quantify, and they are interrelated.

And do you really think that legalized crack and heroin is going to be some kind of boon to the black community?

Just like welfare and legalizing abortion have improved the black community. Add legalized crack and heroin....oh man. That'll fix it all right there.
 
Welfare has destroyed a lot of the urban communities. Why work, why care, when you get a check. Drug use comes from the lack of parenting, in the majority of instances. Not all.

Need parents that ARE there for their children. Need people that are there for others, not themselves.

Life is about giving, not taking.
 
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