Tomlin Deserves Credit

[Steeler Pride]

Plain and simple most of those couldn’t be developed into game changers in my opinion. They were bad draft choices. I believe we maxed out the potential those guys had. Three of those guys don’t play in the NFL anymore and I would say in another 3-4 years neither will the rest of them.

So a GM that was around sine 2000 and put together one of the best defenses for almost a decade all of a sudden forgot how to draft defensive players and almost every one of them was a bust vs a coach that has overseen a team for 11 years and the defense has only gotten worse cannot develop players. Which one seems more plausible?

 

[Atlsteelers]

The defense was consistently a top 10 defense up until 2012. The more we morphed out of LeBeau's defense and more into Tomlin's Tampa-2 is when our defense started blowing leads and getting toasted. If LeBeau's defense was the issues, why have we gotten worse every year since he was not retained in 2014?

So what you are saying is we should go back to that defense?

 

[Steeler Pride]

So what you are saying is we should go back to that defense?

I would say go to ANYTHING that is different from what we have done for 3+ years now. Ray Charles can see that this scheme does not work.

 

[Atlsteelers]

So a GM that was around sine 2000 and put together one of the best defenses for almost a decade all of a sudden forgot how to draft defensive players and almost every one of them was a bust vs a coach that has overseen a team for 11 years and the defense has only gotten worse cannot develop players. Which one seems more plausible?

So I guess you’re saying Colbert doesn’t deserve any blame and all of should go on Tomlin? He’s the one who scouted the players and he’s also the one who drafted the players, and he’s also the one who’s supposed to develop them?

 

[Atlsteelers]

I would say go to ANYTHING that is different from what we have done for 3+ years now. Ray Charles can see that this scheme does not work.

By the way. I agree with you.

 

[Coryea]

Well considering most guys didn’t even play 4-5 years after he took over and only a handful players played for 6 more years yea. My point is we draft and develop any guys after them and still ran the same broken defense for too long. Why do you think they forced LeBeau to leave? I also remember so many people on this board and fans in general crying for a change. Tomlin deserves blame for sure but so does Colbert.

Tomlin has last say, he's said as much, remember Bruce Davis, Tomlin said that was my pick I made that call.

Tomlin took over in 2007. That was Hamptons 7th season, Keisel and Footes 6th season, Smith's 8th season, Troy's 5th season, Clarks 6th season, Ikes 5th season, Harrison's 6th season. Hardly on their last leg, the only one was Farrior.

Cowher didn't have a franchise QB his entire tenure either.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Steeler Pride]

So I guess you’re saying Colbert doesn’t deserve any blame and all of should go on Tomlin? He’s the one who scouted the players and he’s also the one who drafted the players, and he’s also the one who’s supposed to develop them?

I am saying that Colbert may have missed on players, all GM's do. Do I believe that EVERY defensive draft pick especially in the secondary has been a total bust? Tomlin has to have input in the drafting of players and he also has to develop those players. Burns was a solid DB in college, yet he looks worse each and every year in the NFL. His ability is no where close to as bad as what the Steelers are getting out of him. THAT is on the coach. Asking players to do things they are INCAPABLE of doing is on the coach. If you ask a guy to do something they cannot do, is the player a bust or is the scheme setting him up to fail?

 

[Atlsteelers]

Tomlin has last say, he's said as much, remember Bruce Davis, Tomlin said that was my pick I made that call.

Tomlin took over in 2007. That was Hamptons 7th season, Keisel and Footes 6th season, Smith's 8th season, Troy's 5th season, Clarks 6th season, Ikes 5th season, Harrison's 6th season. Hardly on their last leg, the only one was Farrior.

Cowher didn't have a franchise QB his entire tenure either.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

Just because some of the guys played maybe 5-6 years after Tomlin got here doesn’t mean they were playing at a high level for all those years. We gave up 31 points to the Packers in that Super Bowl. I would even go so far to say the end of the Steelers dominance on the defensive side was after that year. My point has always been we didn’t draft better on the defensive side of the ball to replace those guys or sign quality free agents to help as well. It’s also Tomlins and the entire coaching staff on the defensive side of the ball as well. But of course we can send blame all around. I just don’t think replacing Tomlin will fix our problems even though it seems as everyone wants that to happen. Just my opinion just like everyone else on here.

 

[Atlsteelers]

I am saying that Colbert may have missed on players, all GM's do. Do I believe that EVERY defensive draft pick especially in the secondary has been a total bust? Tomlin has to have input in the drafting of players and he also has to develop those players. Burns was a solid DB in college, yet he looks worse each and every year in the NFL. His ability is no where close to as bad as what the Steelers are getting out of him. THAT is on the coach. Asking players to do things they are INCAPABLE of doing is on the coach. If you ask a guy to do something they cannot do, is the player a bust or is the scheme setting him up to fail?

Burns was solid but not spectacular in college. Matter of fact if memory serves me correct he was even the top DB on our draft board. I believe we wanted William Jackson then I believe we reached for Burns. Burns actually looked solid up until this year. I agree that we are constantly putting guys in a position to fail. Example having LB cover receivers. But I also think part of it is talent. When we lost Shazier we lost more than just another ILB. We lost a playmaker. Someone who could any given play make something happen that could change the game. We don’t have that on this team. Burnett has been a huge disappointment and I really thought maybe he could help in that area. IMO it’s why I think Butler still has a job. But that is running thin as well at this point.

 

[Steeler Pride]

Burns was solid but not spectacular in college. Matter of fact if memory serves me correct he was even the top DB on our draft board. I believe we wanted William Jackson then I believe we reached for Burns. Burns actually looked solid up until this year. I agree that we are constantly putting guys in a position to fail. Example having LB cover receivers. But I also think part of it is talent. When we lost Shazier we lost more than just another ILB. We lost a playmaker. Someone who could any given play make something happen that could change the game. We don’t have that on this team. Burnett has been a huge disappointment and I really thought maybe he could help in that area. IMO it’s why I think Butler still has a job. But that is running thin as well at this point.

If you think this Defense is Butler's defense, I have some ocean front property in Iowa to sell you.

 

[Coryea]

Just because some of the guys played maybe 5-6 years after Tomlin got here doesn’t mean they were playing at a high level for all those years. We gave up 31 points to the Packers in that Super Bowl. I would even go so far to say the end of the Steelers dominance on the defensive side was after that year. My point has always been we didn’t draft better on the defensive side of the ball to replace those guys or sign quality free agents to help as well. It’s also Tomlins and the entire coaching staff on the defensive side of the ball as well. But of course we can send blame all around. I just don’t think replacing Tomlin will fix our problems even though it seems as everyone wants that to happen. Just my opinion just like everyone else on here.

I'm talking when Tomlin got hired, those guys were in their prime. The defense was in place already. Once those guys started leaving this defense started going down hill, and Tomlin hasn't fixed it. His best defensive draft pick(Heyward) since he's been here wouldn't start on that 08 team.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Steelers12]

Just because some of the guys played maybe 5-6 years after Tomlin got here doesn’t mean they were playing at a high level for all those years. We gave up 31 points to the Packers in that Super Bowl. I would even go so far to say the end of the Steelers dominance on the defensive side was after that year. My point has always been we didn’t draft better on the defensive side of the ball to replace those guys or sign quality free agents to help as well. It’s also Tomlins and the entire coaching staff on the defensive side of the ball as well. But of course we can send blame all around. I just don’t think replacing Tomlin will fix our problems even though it seems as everyone wants that to happen. Just my opinion just like everyone else on here.

Tomlin is the problem so by firing him you start to fix the problems his awful coaching created. But you want him to continue as coach and expect 8 years of failure to.magically disappear. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
.

Tomlin is a stupid bullshitter and after Sunday's game his bullshit is more lies and failure. **** him

 

[VaSteelerFan]

Tomlin is the head coach. The buck stops with him and only him. He's not getting it done and I'm sick of watching horrible defense every week. I'm sick of watching LBs try to cover top WRs every week. It's a joke how bad our defense has become under Tomlin. Stop trying to pass the buck. Tomlin is in charge. He makes the big money and is paid to win or at least improve the team.

 

[Atlsteelers]

Tomlin is the problem so by firing him you start to fix the problems his awful coaching created. But you want him to continue as coach and expect 8 years of failure to.magically disappear. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
.

Tomlin is a stupid bullshitter and after Sunday's game his bullshit is more lies and failure. **** him

123 - 65 -1
8 playoff appearances out of 10 seasons (Could be 9 out of 11)
2 Super Bowls and one victory
No season have we finished below 500
Led our division 6 years

Not too bad I would say. Unless we judge failure differently? I get it though. Everyone is pissed off and want things to change as do I. I just think it’s easy to change the head coach without looking at the entire organization. Just be careful what you wish for because you might get it.

 

[Steeler Pride]

123 - 65 -1
8 playoff appearances out of 10 seasons (Could be 9 out of 11)
2 Super Bowls and one victory
No season have we finished below 500
Led our division 6 years

Not too bad I would say. Unless we judge failure differently? I get it though. Everyone is pissed off and want things to change as do I. I just think it’s easy to change the head coach without looking at the entire organization. Just be careful what you wish for because you might get it.

Name me one company that looks backwards to determine the future of their company or success. What about Tomlin today would lead anyone to believe that he is the right person going forward. The defense keeps getting worse each year all while wasting the prime years of a future HOF QB. Any company that looks backwards instead of self evaluating and looking forward is a company that will soon be in bankruptcy.

 

[Steeler Pride]

123 - 65 -1
8 playoff appearances out of 10 seasons (Could be 9 out of 11)
2 Super Bowls and one victory
No season have we finished below 500
Led our division 6 years

Not too bad I would say. Unless we judge failure differently? I get it though. Everyone is pissed off and want things to change as do I. I just think it’s easy to change the head coach without looking at the entire organization. Just be careful what you wish for because you might get it.

BTW, what were Mike McCarthy's accomplishments?

 

[Vader]

Sorry but you are wrong and we could back and forth all day. Nobody runs a real 3-4 anymore. The game has changed so much even within the past 5 years and the famous zone blitz became dated as well. If you can’t see it then you’re blind. He took over in 2007 and we lost the Super Bowl in 2011. Troy’s last season was 2014 and should have been 2013, Keisels last real season was 2013, Ryan Clark’s last season was 2014, Hampton’s last season was 2012, Aaron Smith’s last season was 2011 and played in only a combined 14 games in 3 years leading up to 2011. Farriors last season was 2011. So in a matter of 3 years after we lost the super bowl all these players were not playing for the team. That’s a lot of players to lose at once and had no depth to replace most of those positions. I also never said he shouldn’t take responsibility but to place all the blame on him isn’t fair as well. By the way we all look back and say how great Cowher is now and how he left the team with so much talent but completely forget all the years his teams choked and came up short. Hell he didn’t even win a super bowl until 14 years on the job. Our past isn’t necessarily any better under Cowher. Some would say the most powerful person in the team is GM.

No my friend you are wrong. Hell you made my point for me. Go look at any SB winning or any team and see how many players are on it after 5 ******* YEARS. I don't care when YOU decide their last "REAL" seasons was. Even the arbitrary number you select still makes my point. Go look at the team today and see if 10 of the defense is EXACTLY the same 4 years later. Either you don't know much about the NFL or you're just a Tomlin lackey.

Just BTW this team has 7... YES...7 players that weren't on the team just 3 years ago. Go back 5 years and NONE, ZERO, ZILCH of them were on the team. So please stop.

 

[Steel Ballin]

LOL at MT apologists.

 

[Steelers12]

Imagine what the results would have been during Tomlins tenure with a smart competent head coach instead of the bullshitting moron .

 

[Vader]

123 - 65 -1
8 playoff appearances out of 10 seasons (Could be 9 out of 11)
2 Super Bowls and one victory
No season have we finished below 500
Led our division 6 years

Not too bad I would say. Unless we judge failure differently? I get it though. Everyone is pissed off and want things to change as do I. I just think it’s easy to change the head coach without looking at the entire organization. Just be careful what you wish for because you might get it.

Hell you can't even get your stats right. He missed the playoffs 3 times. 09, 12, 13 (where he had 2 8-8 seasons back to back). This is his 12th season NOT his 11th. Damn man.

 

[Atlsteelers]

I’m not a Tomlin apologist or Tomlin Lackey or whatever that is but it’s easy to jump on the bandwagon when things are not going well. IF we were to win the last 3 games which we could have then all of us would have been talking about Tomlin coach of the year. Not Tomlins fault our kicker has sucked this year and has seemed to forgot how to kick. Not Tomlins fault an All pro in Bell decided to be a douche and stick it to the team. Not Tomlins fault that Antonio Brown decides to be an idiot and be an off the field distraction. Not Tomlins fault we haven’t recovered from an All pro Lb becoming paralyzed just one year ago. This season was destined for failure before it even started. Some things within his control and deserves all the blame and some things out of his control. At this point I’m going to bow out because honestly it’s not worth my time to go back and forth with everyone.

 

[Atlsteelers]

Hell you can't even get your stats right. He missed the playoffs 3 times. 09, 12, 13 (where he had 2 8-8 seasons back to back). This is his 12th season NOT his 11th. Damn man.

Here I fixed it for you.

123 - 65 -1
8 playoff appearances out of 11 seasons (Could be 9 out of 12)
2 Super Bowls and one victory
No season have we finished below 500
Led our division 6 years

 

[VaSteelerFan]

It is his fault that his defense tries to cover WRs with LBs. It is his fault that he refuses to change a scheme that's not working. It is his fault for letting Oak run a minute off the clock last game then calling a TO after a damn incomplete pass.

 

[Vader]

I’m not a Tomlin apologist or Tomlin Lackey or whatever that is but it’s easy to jump on the bandwagon when things are not going well. IF we were to win the last 3 games which we could have then all of us would have been talking about Tomlin coach of the year. Not Tomlins fault our kicker has sucked this year and has seemed to forgot how to kick. Not Tomlins fault an All pro in Bell decided to be a douche and stick it to the team. Not Tomlins fault that Antonio Brown decides to be an idiot and be an off the field distraction. Not Tomlins fault we haven’t recovered from an All pro Lb becoming paralyzed just one year ago. This season was destined for failure before it even started. Some things within his control and deserves all the blame and some things out of his control. At this point I’m going to bow out because honestly it’s not worth my time to go back and forth with everyone.

But it is Tomlin's fault for covering WRs with LBs. It is his fault for going home with a TO in his pocket when they lost the game because they didn't have enough time to score a TD that would have won the game. It is his fault for not look at ILB in the draft when he knew he needed one. Like I said in another thread. Cowher was having to replace players better than Shazier almost every year. It isn't an excuse for doing stupid **** during a game. He's the HEAD coach so he is in charge. If he doesn't want that title then step down to assistant coach.

 

[slashsteel]

Seems like a lot of deflection. Tomlin had every opportunity to fix the D by removing plays or even the scheme. When you throw onto the field a broken scheme. Game after game. Then you are directly responsible for outcome.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Steeler Nation mobile app