Trade ben now!!!!

[Steelr4evr]

Again I will say idiots... You may be at the top of the list topseed.

Yeah let's not pay one of the best QB in the game and maybe of all time. Pats pay Brady. Denver pays manning. You can bet your *** we pay BEN. That's what you do. You pay the people that deserve it. The guy is a HOF QB with 5 strong years left. Of Course you pay him.

Idiots must not remember the 20 years without a QB

I wouldn't even bother fighting with folks. Thank god steeler fans don't run the team.They'd never win **** again. It's a highly comical fiction trading away the x factor and your biggest prize position on a pro football team. The Steelers are going to pay the man and no fictional trade crap on a message board is going to change that.

 

[topseed]

Again I will say idiots... You may be at the top of the list topseed.

Yeah let's not pay one of the best QB in the game and maybe of all time. Pats pay Brady. Denver pays manning. You can bet your *** we pay BEN. That's what you do. You pay the people that deserve it. The guy is a HOF QB with 5 strong years left. Of Course you pay him.

Idiots must not remember the 20 years without a QB

Brady and Manning are still performing at the top of their profession, douchebag. Ben will be in the bottom half of starting quarterbacks 5 years from now, if he even makes it that long.

 

[t-man]

Brady and Manning are still performing at the top of their profession, douchebag. Ben will be in the bottom half of starting quarterbacks 5 years from now, if he even makes it that long.

How can you see your crystal ball with your head that far up your own *******?

Joe

 

[stillwright]

Brady and Manning are still performing at the top of their profession, douchebag. Ben will be in the bottom half of starting quarterbacks 5 years from now, if he even makes it that long.

Bottom half? OK.

 

[topseed]

Denver is really struggling having to pay Manning the way they are. The Colts really struggled when Manning was there too, how many straight years of playoffs? Exactly HALF of all NFL teams have a QB making $11,400,000 or MORE. The Seahawks, Colts, and Browns are the only teams of the rest of the league with a shot at the playoffs. Here's the other kicker tho, of all these teams signing their QB's to big contracts, none of them are giving them guaranteed contracts, the only contracts that ARE guaranteed are ROOKIE contracts.

You think Ben at $18 mil this year is bad, wait till you see the numbers Romo and Brees will cost their teams... $27.7 for Romo, $26.4 for Brees. Signing Ben to an extension will most likely lower his cap hit. And no one knows what type of deal he will sign. He COULD ask for a deal like Ryan, Rodgers, or Flacco... he has done more, but he could also sign a deal like Brady just signed, or the one that Manning signed. Both took less than the market value.

Manning signed a 5-year deal with injury protection for the Broncos in 2012. He is still in the top 3 at his position, with only two years left. The deal he signed in his prime with the Colts has absolutely no bearing on Ben's future contract. Again, it's not the same situation.

As I mentioned earlier, I hope Ben signs a reasonable deal, but I doubt it will happen, especially now.

 

[topseed]

How can you see your crystal ball with your head that far up your own *******?

Joe

How can you see at all with Ben's jizz all over your face?

 

[topseed]

Bottom half? OK.

At the age of 37? Without a doubt. 50/50 he'll be out of the league.

 

[insaniti]

Manning signed a 5-year deal with injury protection for the Broncos in 2012. He is still in the top 3 at his position, with only two years left. The deal he signed in his prime with the Colts has absolutely no bearing on Ben's future contract. Again, it's not the same situation.

As I mentioned earlier, I hope Ben signs a reasonable deal, but I doubt it will happen, especially now.

It absolutely has a bearing on Ben's future deal. YOU said that we could use that money to sign someone else (still haven't given us examples), you said it would cripple us. I pointed out that SEVERAL teams have signed their QB's to big contracts and still been able to compete. WE are one of those teams. We signed Ben to a big extension when the cap was MUCH lower, and were still able to keep the people we wanted to keep. Your dream scenario is based in Madden logic, not real life logic.

 

[papillon]

Brady and Manning are still performing at the top of their profession, douchebag. Ben will be in the bottom half of starting quarterbacks 5 years from now, if he even makes it that long.

Can I ask what you have seen that makes you believe this will be true? I tend to agree that he may not be at the top of the heap in 5 years, but I think he'll be closer to the top than the bottom. Just curious.

Papillon

 

[t-man]

How can you see at all with Ben's jizz all over your face?

You're the one make prognostications about how long Ben will be playing at the level he is now, not me. You are aware that contracts aren't fully guaranteed, correct? So, you do a deal, with some up front money, but backload it a bit, and if he has to go before that time, so be it.

Crystal ball people were calling Manning done a few years ago too, looks like he's doing ok. That's the funny thing about the future, it hasn't happened yet, so we don't know. What I DO know is he's playing lights out right now, and is one of the best qb's in the NFL. YOU might be in a hurry to try and replace him, I have a good memory for what we went though between Bradshaw and Ben, and as a result am in no desire to start that process over.

My thoughts are based on experience, yours are based on prediction.

You might be right, Ben might decline over the next 5 years. You might also be wrong. I for one am hoping the Rooneys keep Ben till his play forces them to cut him loose, given the offensive weapons we currently have, it would be beyond ******* idiotic to attempt to move our quarterback and have someone else at qb.

Joe

 

[ark steel]

With their performances lately, we could package Ben with James, we could get a **** ton of draft picks.

 

[Badcat]

I'll bet that if we packaged Ben, Harrison, Troy, and Antonio Brown...the Raiders will give us the #1 over-all pick in this years draft!!! I mean OMG!!!! we could pick up a Journeyman QB and gamble away the future of the Steelers becasue Ben sucks and he's old and he's a criminal (well almost) and he rides motorcycles without helmets and almost dies...n' stuff. It's a win win

Sarcasm for the impaired

 

[Coryea]

Who in the hell do we replace him with? If Franchise qb's were that easy to find, every team would have one. Also, you get rid of Ben, you're screwing with the best wr in the NFL, one of the best all-around RB's in the NFL, an up and coming WR in Bryant.

 

[t-man]

Who in the hell do we replace him with? If Franchise qb's were that easy to find, every team would have one. Also, you get rid of Ben, you're screwing with the best wr in the NFL, one of the best all-around RB's in the NFL, an up and coming WR in Bryant.

No no no, don't you GET IT? Because our just passed for 500 yards or more for the second time in his career, just threw for 6 touchdowns for two consecutive games quarterback MIGHT not be playing at this level FIVE years from now, we NEED to DEAL him NOW, while we can! You people really don't understand football. You see, you wait till your quarterback is having the best several game stretch he has ever had, and THAT is when you try to trade him, nevermind that you've been putting wr's, a good Oline, and running backs on team for years now trying to get to this point, this is EXACTLY when you want to nullify all that talent by picking up a journeyman quarterback, or an unknown quality from the draft so you can spend the next 10 years or so getting the absolute least out of all that talent.

After all, we'll have DRAFT PICKS!

Woo hoo!

Joe

 

[Wingman]

No no no, don't you GET IT? Because our just passed for 500 yards or more for the second time in his career, just threw for 6 touchdowns for two consecutive games quarterback MIGHT not be playing at this level FIVE years from now, we NEED to DEAL him NOW, while we can! You people really don't understand football. You see, you wait till your quarterback is having the best several game stretch he has ever had, and THAT is when you try to trade him, nevermind that you've been putting wr's, a good Oline, and running backs on team for years now trying to get to this point, this is EXACTLY when you want to nullify all that talent by picking up a journeyman quarterback, or an unknown quality from the draft so you can spend the next 10 years or so getting the absolute least out of all that talent.

After all, we'll have DRAFT PICKS!

Woo hoo!

Joe

Joe the last three games he has been great. But if you go back to some games before that he was not which is when this discussion started. I will say this if a trade is to be worked out for a guy that will garner something for the team doing the trade it will not happen when the guy is on the way out of the league. He will need to be perceived as having value. I do not recall folks advocating trading him only that folks were saying what the options were and what the time line would be to make something worth while. Ben could play well for a few more years, he could suffer a big drop off as well this is a young mans game. For examples of guys that seemed to have been kept too long you can look at Lamarr Woodley or any of the Gildong threads from years gone by. There are also lots of cases where guys were let go too soon as you are stating would be the case with Ben. Woodson comes to mind here as well as Chad Brown.

The only way a trade makes sense is if we think we can get better value than what we are trading away. To your point about landing a rookie qb think back to Ben's rookie season he did rather well don't you think? Some teams do not seem to do well developing franchise qbs. The steelers have found two and fielded some that were close. The cowboys have fielded two and some that were close. Some teams only get close. I think the Steelers might just have a plan that works if they get a good pick to put into the game.

Ben may have 5 good years left he might not have one we will see what happens, should he develop some problem to his throwing arm it could end things for him, not that I am saying that will happen but it is more likely every game he plays.

 

[Coryea]

You can't compare QB's to CB's, LB's, etc, those position require more speed and quickness, which is what goes first with age. QB's that don't run can play well into their 30's. This is comparing apples and oranges, those positions you named have more contact and collisions in one game than most QB's do in an entire season.
Wheaton wasn't playing well, the OlineOnline wasn't playing well, Bryant wasn't playing early in the season, it's not like Ben was the only one not playing well.

 

[Wingman]

You can't compare QB's to CB's, LB's, etc, those position require more speed and quickness, which is what goes first with age. QB's that don't run can play well into their 30's. This is comparing apples and oranges, those positions you named have more contact and collisions in one game than most QB's do in an entire season.
Wheaton wasn't playing well, the OlineOnline wasn't playing well, Bryant wasn't playing early in the season, it's not like Ben was the only one not playing well.

I believe you can in this regard, when their throwing arm goes they are done. Neck injuries and shoulder injuries take a toll. Ben has been hit a lot and this is the first year he seems to have a game with out getting blasted. Even after the play was over he was taking hits. A concussion could easily take him out of the game from some of the trauma he has already sustained. Not trying to find problems for Ben just stating he has had some issues. I would think he would have less of a chance to play into the advanced years of a player at his position than say marsha who is almost never touched.

 

[Litos]

I believe you can in this regard, when their throwing arm goes they are done. Neck injuries and shoulder injuries take a toll. Ben has been hit a lot and this is the first year he seems to have a game with out getting blasted. Even after the play was over he was taking hits. A concussion could easily take him out of the game from some of the trauma he has already sustained. Not trying to find problems for Ben just stating he has had some issues. I would think he would have less of a chance to play into the advanced years of a player at his position than say marsha who is almost never touched.

Ben aging with all those risks gives the team a better chance than trying to get lucky in the draft. If you have a HOF QB you better keep him until the wheels actually fall off. The colts probably won't get a SB before Luck's rookie contract is over, can you guess how much is he gonna cost against their cap? A **** ton, yet they'll give him that contract and try to get a SB with his franchise QB.
Ben gave us 2 and he is still more than capable of delivering a 3rd SB. You ride that chance like there's no tomorrow man

 

[insaniti]

I believe you can in this regard, when their throwing arm goes they are done. Neck injuries and shoulder injuries take a toll. Ben has been hit a lot and this is the first year he seems to have a game with out getting blasted. Even after the play was over he was taking hits. A concussion could easily take him out of the game from some of the trauma he has already sustained. Not trying to find problems for Ben just stating he has had some issues. I would think he would have less of a chance to play into the advanced years of a player at his position than say marsha who is almost never touched.

Peyton Manning rarely gets touched (sacked only 6 times this whole year), Brady gets hit a lot more than you would think. Sacked 14 times this year, hit another 39 times. No he doesn't take the beating that Ben does, but you could put Eli right up next to Ben in sacks and QB hits... and he's never missed a game. Brett Favre was sacked and hit A TON, he played for 20 seasons and didn't miss a game until 20th season. You can't go by past injuries and predict how long that player will be on top.

You also can't bring up Woodson when talking about "letting players go" too early. We offered him a contract, and to switch to safety. He turned it down, signed a one year deal in SF, then signed with Baltimore to be a SAFETY. Woodson leaving was on Woodson, NOT the Steelers. Chad Brown was also paid a TON of money (for the day) and we couldn't afford to keep him. When was the last player we let go too early? Lewis? There was an argument at the time that it was the right call, some were opposed. The FO saw another Wallace/Brown situation. They got that one wrong. **** happens. But it's not like we are a constant revolving door of great talent that just leaves.

We also don't know what Ben is going to ask for, we just know that the FO has told him they will take care of him after this season and he said "cool, let's play football". Ben is throwing the ball better than he ever has, this whole "five years from now" argument is dumb. Five years ago there were people claiming Ben couldn't read a D, some here claim he still can't and only throws to wide open WR's.

 

[keslerclan]

Brady's sacks don't really count because he jumps on the ground as fast as he can when he thinks he'll get hit.

 

[slashsteel]

And the league has put all these rules out to protect the QB, which helps QB hang around a little longer IMO

 

[Wingman]

Peyton Manning rarely gets touched (sacked only 6 times this whole year), Brady gets hit a lot more than you would think. Sacked 14 times this year, hit another 39 times. No he doesn't take the beating that Ben does, but you could put Eli right up next to Ben in sacks and QB hits... and he's never missed a game. Brett Favre was sacked and hit A TON, he played for 20 seasons and didn't miss a game until 20th season. You can't go by past injuries and predict how long that player will be on top.

You also can't bring up Woodson when talking about "letting players go" too early. We offered him a contract, and to switch to safety. He turned it down, signed a one year deal in SF, then signed with Baltimore to be a SAFETY. Woodson leaving was on Woodson, NOT the Steelers. Chad Brown was also paid a TON of money (for the day) and we couldn't afford to keep him. When was the last player we let go too early? Lewis? There was an argument at the time that it was the right call, some were opposed. The FO saw another Wallace/Brown situation. They got that one wrong. **** happens. But it's not like we are a constant revolving door of great talent that just leaves.

We also don't know what Ben is going to ask for, we just know that the FO has told him they will take care of him after this season and he said "cool, let's play football". Ben is throwing the ball better than he ever has, this whole "five years from now" argument is dumb. Five years ago there were people claiming Ben couldn't read a D, some here claim he still can't and only throws to wide open WR's.

Interesting that you feel compelled to tell me what I can and can't do particularly when I just did.

 

[topseed]

It absolutely has a bearing on Ben's future deal. YOU said that we could use that money to sign someone else (still haven't given us examples), you said it would cripple us. I pointed out that SEVERAL teams have signed their QB's to big contracts and still been able to compete. WE are one of those teams. We signed Ben to a big extension when the cap was MUCH lower, and were still able to keep the people we wanted to keep. Your dream scenario is based in Madden logic, not real life logic.

First of all, it's kind of hard to give you examples of whom the Steelers might sign in the year 2016. Difficult to know who'll be available two years from now.

Um, again, no, it doesn't have any bearing whatsoever. Of course the Colts were able to give Manning a big contract IN HIS PRIME and they were able to compete. No ****. Franchise quarterbacks IN THEIR PRIME are fundamental to success. Once more, I don't have any problem with Ben's current contract, because he signed it IN HIS PRIME, and is still performing.

I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. Ben's future deal will reward a great career; however, for its majority, he will NOT BE IN HIS PRIME. He'll be 34 when it starts, and the glory days of 12 touchdowns in 2 games will be faded memories by 36 or 37, and his performance will suffer because of his age and the beating he's taken...yet they will still be paying him like he's IN HIS PRIME.

What dream scenario of mine are you talking about? I'm hopeful (but doubtful) that Ben takes a hometown discount. Your "real life logic" is based on a hope and a prayer that a guy who has already been sacked over 400 times, been absolutely crushed on a countless number of big hits behind mostly questionable offensive lines for ten years and counting, and already been concussed in a motorcycle accident is somehow going to be able to perform at the same level in his mid to late thirties as he is now. Good luck with that dream.

 

[topseed]

Can I ask what you have seen that makes you believe this will be true? I tend to agree that he may not be at the top of the heap in 5 years, but I think he'll be closer to the top than the bottom. Just curious.

Papillon

See my last paragraph above.

 

[topseed]

You're the one make prognostications about how long Ben will be playing at the level he is now, not me. You are aware that contracts aren't fully guaranteed, correct? So, you do a deal, with some up front money, but backload it a bit, and if he has to go before that time, so be it.

Crystal ball people were calling Manning done a few years ago too, looks like he's doing ok. That's the funny thing about the future, it hasn't happened yet, so we don't know. What I DO know is he's playing lights out right now, and is one of the best qb's in the NFL. YOU might be in a hurry to try and replace him, I have a good memory for what we went though between Bradshaw and Ben, and as a result am in no desire to start that process over.

My thoughts are based on experience, yours are based on prediction.

You might be right, Ben might decline over the next 5 years. You might also be wrong. I for one am hoping the Rooneys keep Ben till his play forces them to cut him loose, given the offensive weapons we currently have, it would be beyond ******* idiotic to attempt to move our quarterback and have someone else at qb.

Joe

Yes I'm aware that contracts aren't fully guaranteed. Perhaps you're aware of what "dead money" is. Perhaps not. Ben's probably going to get a deal with a shitload of signing bonus money. It doesn't just disappear when he has to go. It gets carried forward, which is precisely the reason why it will cripple the team.

Once again, Denver covered its *** with Manning's last deal with an injury waiver for 2013. If he was done, they were on the hook for $18 million. A much different situation.

I'm not in a hurry to replace Ben, but I want the team to do the most fiscally responsible thing. There is no "Ben might decline over the next 5 years," it is a given. Your thinking that he won't decline is what's beyond ******* idiotic.