Trade ben now!!!!

[insaniti]

People need to put the Manning situation completely out of their heads. Had Manning not got hurt, the Colts never release him. They never have the first pick in the draft, and Luck goes elsewhere. No one knew if Manning could still play or not. It was a huge risk for BOTH the Colts AND the Broncos. It happen to work out pretty well for both teams, but that situation should never be brought up as an example of what could happen. Teams don't let HEALTHY Franchise QB's go, they don't trade them away for anything.

 

[GMC]

I can't see any offer that would make me trade him. IF a Luck is available in the draft then the team won't trade that pick for Ben. They'll just take the younger QB. And Luck doesn't come around often. Any trade that doesn't involve getting a very good QB doesn't make sense to me. So I can't see any trade that would make sense. No team can win in the NFL without a good QB. I'm not going to try to build every part of the team into NFL HOFs just to have a Kordell Stewart run it into the ground. I just can't realistically see a trade that would work.

Well said. I cringe every time I hear someone mention trading Ben and drafting the mental midget from Free Seafood University. Million dollar arm and a 10 cent brain. Let Oakland draft J. Russell 2.0.

 

[Steelerfan]

Well said. I cringe every time I hear someone mention trading Ben and drafting the mental midget from Free Seafood University. Million dollar arm and a 10 cent brain. Let Oakland draft J. Russell 2.0.

So I guess you don't like the "shame us for Jameis" campaign? LOL

 

[deljzc]

Just a small point about Hartings. I he was an above average guard in Detroit. We moved him to center and he excelled. We tried to do the same thing with Mahan, and it backfired, terribly. So you can't always make a great center out of a good guard.

Mahan was never a good guard. Hartings was also a 1st round talent that started almost right away in his career. Mahan was a 5th rounder, didn't play much his rookie season, was a backup center his 2nd season, THEN played RG and LG the following two seasons with Tampa Bay (and was not very good).

They went after him because of Tomlin's infatuation with "position versatility" and the uncertainty of what was going on with Fanaca that off-season. If Fanaca threw a stink having to play out his contract, Mahan was plan B at LG.

But to compare Mahan as a free agent vs. Jeff Hartings is a joke. You don't get drafted in the first round as an interior O-line prospect unless you are damn good.

 

[steelbush]

So I guess you don't like the "shame us for Jameis" campaign? LOL

Jameis will not be a good NFL quarterback. Not smart enough, not mature enough. I feel sorry for the poor ******** (probably Tampa) that end up drafting that *** clown.

 

[RollRedRoll]

I agree with those that say Winston isn't smart enough to be a franchise QB in the NFL, but man does that kid play well in crunch time... His ability to perform late in games... big games at that... is definitely a check in the plus column.... I will give him that. The one thing you can't say about him is that he folds under pressure. That quality alone, I think, will convince some team to make him a high draft pick.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I agree with those that say Winston isn't smart enough to be a franchise QB in the NFL, but man does that kid play well in crunch time... His ability to perform late in games... big games at that... is definitely a check in the plus column.... I will give him that. The one thing you can't say about him is that he folds under pressure. That quality alone, I think, will convince some team to make him a high draft pick.

Says a fan of the team that drafted Bubby Brister.

 

[steelbush]

I agree with those that say Winston isn't smart enough to be a franchise QB in the NFL, but man does that kid play well in crunch time... His ability to perform late in games... big games at that... is definitely a check in the plus column.... I will give him that. The one thing you can't say about him is that he folds under pressure. That quality alone, I think, will convince some team to make him a high draft pick.

Vince Young played damn near a perfect game in the National Championship game including final drive/crunch time. Probably one of the best college QB performances I have ever seen. NFL is a different animal. NFL is a thinking mans game...Jameis is stealing crab legs, making stupid statements in crowded rooms, suspect in sexual assaults, etc. It seems his brain doesn't work to well.

 

[topseed]

Rookies are slotted in the draft pay system. Having a butzillion dollars does not effect the draft in any way shape or form. That's why I said they'd draft the exact same way with or without Ben. Money has nothing to do with the draft. So the only other option you have is FA. The ONLY way money enters into the picture is by FA. Let's say right now that Ben made $2 million a year what would that change on the team right now?

Having a "butzillion" dollars would allow them to package any extra picks and move up into a higher draft slot and be able to afford a better player there.

Ben is nearly $19 million against the cap. If he were making $2 million, I think perhaps they could have found some decent cornerback help with the remaining 17 million dollars. And maybe some much-needed depth at other positions. Just a hunch. And, yes, in that fantasy world, the Steelers would be a true Super Bowl contender. You can pretend that Ben is making $2 million, and things wouldn't change, but that simply isn't realistic.

 

[t-man]

Having a "butzillion" dollars would allow them to package any extra picks and move up into a higher draft slot and be able to afford a better player there.

Ben is nearly $19 million against the cap. If he were making $2 million, I think perhaps they could have found some decent cornerback help with the remaining 17 million dollars. And maybe some much-needed depth at other positions. Just a hunch. And, yes, in that fantasy world, the Steelers would be a true Super Bowl contender. You can pretend that Ben is making $2 million, and things wouldn't change, but that simply isn't realistic.

Madden is not the real world. If we didn't have Ben, we'd need a LOT of corner help, along with quite a few other things, because you can bet bell would be seeing 8 man fronts every down.

Joe

 

[Vader]

Having a "butzillion" dollars would allow them to package any extra picks and move up into a higher draft slot and be able to afford a better player there.

Ben is nearly $19 million against the cap. If he were making $2 million, I think perhaps they could have found some decent cornerback help with the remaining 17 million dollars. And maybe some much-needed depth at other positions. Just a hunch. And, yes, in that fantasy world, the Steelers would be a true Super Bowl contender. You can pretend that Ben is making $2 million, and things wouldn't change, but that simply isn't realistic.

No it wouldn't. Let me explain this again. ALL THE ROOKIES ARE SLOTTED. Andrew Luck has a cap hit this year of $6 million. Which is peanuts. Having more money to spend doesn't change anything at all in the draft. It doesn't allow you to package anything and move up. You can do that with NO money because the salaries are already slotted and each team has to have a certain percentage to pay the "rookie pool".

Also you haven't named me one player they could sign to make the team better. You also don't have a QB and sure don't have a good QB. So all you have is a lot of money, ONE high draft pick and some fictitious FA that "might" help the team.

 

[topseed]

Madden is not the real world. If we didn't have Ben, we'd need a LOT of corner help, along with quite a few other things, because you can bet bell would be seeing 8 man fronts every down.

Joe

Can't argue with any of that. But Vader was imagining a world where Ben was still on the team, but only making $2 million, so I attempted to play along.

 

[Vader]

Can't argue with any of that. But Vader was imagining a world where Ben was still on the team, but only making $2 million, so I attempted to play along.

I just asked you what it would change right now. Then you started your "trading picks for a high pick" day dream that has nothing to do with the amount of money Ben makes. And you still haven't answered that nor anything I've said directly. For some reason you think money has some effect on the draft when it absolutely does not.

 

[topseed]

No it wouldn't. Let me explain this again. ALL THE ROOKIES ARE SLOTTED. Andrew Luck has a cap hit this year of $6 million. Which is peanuts. Having more money to spend doesn't change anything at all in the draft. It doesn't allow you to package anything and move up. You can do that with NO money because the salaries are already slotted and each team has to have a certain percentage to pay the "rookie pool".

Also you haven't named me one player they could sign to make the team better. You also don't have a QB and sure don't have a good QB. So all you have is a lot of money, ONE high draft pick and some fictitious FA that "might" help the team.

Yes, I'm aware of the rookie pool and the 25% increase rule. Except is hasn't really changed things all that much, and teams still design contracts to successfully circumvent the rules.

I don't know why you keep talking about that one player they could've signed. Dude, newsflash: Ben DOES NOT make $2 million, he counts nearly $19 million towards the cap. Who could they sign right now? Nobody. Who could they have signed in the offseason with Ben's current contract? Nobody. Who could they sign in the future if they don't sign Ben to an astronomical contract at the age of 33? Somebody.


I'll let you have the last word on the topic, because for the most part, I respect your opinions. Here's what I'll end with:

Ben is playing at an incredibly high level right now. We all can see that. So, yes, they will pay Ben again (probably a similar contract), but the problem is, in three or four years, he is not going to be playing the best football of his life; he's going to be considerably older, less moblie, and more beat up. This is not conjecture, it's nature. It's all downhill from here. The last few years, Ben's been good. The team has been 8-8. This year, he's otherworldly. The team is 6-3. Maybe they win the division and host a wild card game. Maybe they advance. Then, unfortunately, either the Patriots or the Broncos are going to beat the Steelers in January. Unless some type of miracle happens, and this shaky defense is somehow able to stop Brady and/or Manning, they are going to fall short no matter how well Ben is performing. What scares me is what happens when he's back to normal or worse?

The Steelers are not good enough to compete for a Super Bowl win this season, even with Ben putting up monster numbers. I don't want to see what this team looks like down the road when they are still paying him like a superstar, and his play starts to greatly deteriorate. Maybe he'll agree to some type of reasonable deal because he wants to stay in Pittsburgh. That would be the best case scenario, but given his recent rise, it's doubtful.

Perhaps I'll be proven wrong. If that's the case, you can feel free to dig up this thread and all the other nasty asswipes can get their rocks off by telling me again what an idiotic moronic ******** I am. And I'll happily accept, and buy them all a cyber beer.

BTW, I'm proudly wearing my #7 jersey today. Hope he keeps up his outstanding play against the Jets.

 

[Vader]

All I'm saying is that the reason the team has been 8-8 is because of bad drafting. Ben's contract has nothing to do with that. The Steelers build through the draft. When that fails it all fails. Does anyone really think the same guys who drafted Hood, Sweed and Landry Jones are going to be able to find a real QB when Ben leaves? The only real chance the Steelers have of winning a SB anytime soon is to try to draft better and build around Ben. Seriously, this team even with Brown, Bell, etc... without Ben is a 4-5 win team.... maybe.

I respect your opinion as well. I just think that Ben is the only thing keeping this team half way decent. Without putting up 30+ points the past two weeks they lose to Indy and are in a fight with the rats. They may lose to the pats* or Denver. But I want them to have the chance. Maybe Gronk gets hurt and Brady's vagina gets bruised? Who knows?

 

[BAS]

Yes, I'm aware of the rookie pool and the 25% increase rule. Except is hasn't really changed things all that much, and teams still design contracts to successfully circumvent the rules.

I don't know why you keep talking about that one player they could've signed. Dude, newsflash: Ben DOES NOT make $2 million, he counts nearly $19 million towards the cap. Who could they sign right now? Nobody. Who could they have signed in the offseason with Ben's current contract? Nobody. Who could they sign in the future if they don't sign Ben to an astronomical contract at the age of 33? Somebody.


I'll let you have the last word on the topic, because for the most part, I respect your opinions. Here's what I'll end with:

Ben is playing at an incredibly high level right now. We all can see that. So, yes, they will pay Ben again (probably a similar contract), but the problem is, in three or four years, he is not going to be playing the best football of his life; he's going to be considerably older, less moblie, and more beat up. This is not conjecture, it's nature. It's all downhill from here. The last few years, Ben's been good. The team has been 8-8. This year, he's otherworldly. The team is 6-3. Maybe they win the division and host a wild card game. Maybe they advance. Then, unfortunately, either the Patriots or the Broncos are going to beat the Steelers in January. Unless some type of miracle happens, and this shaky defense is somehow able to stop Brady and/or Manning, they are going to fall short no matter how well Ben is performing. What scares me is what happens when he's back to normal or worse?

The Steelers are not good enough to compete for a Super Bowl win this season, even with Ben putting up monster numbers. I don't want to see what this team looks like down the road when they are still paying him like a superstar, and his play starts to greatly deteriorate. Maybe he'll agree to some type of reasonable deal because he wants to stay in Pittsburgh. That would be the best case scenario, but given his recent rise, it's doubtful.

Perhaps I'll be proven wrong. If that's the case, you can feel free to dig up this thread and all the other nasty asswipes can get their rocks off by telling me again what an idiotic moronic ******** I am. And I'll happily accept, and buy them all a cyber beer.

BTW, I'm proudly wearing my #7 jersey today. Hope he keeps up his outstanding play against the Jets.

I think that, although you feel they may not compete for the SB this season, there's still the chance that they compete for one next season or the season after that when hopefully the young guys step up to challenge. You suggest Ben won't be playing this well 3 or 4 years from now. So we're still in your window where his upside of keeping him on the team is still greater than the downside of trading him for an unknown quantity.

Green Bay drafted for their future without Favre very early, and Rodgers sat the bench for a few years. Indy drafted for their future after a down season where Manning wasn't available and they had to rely on Kerry Collins. Brady might not have even gotten the start in New England if it weren't for Bledsoe getting injured, and Brady's time will eventually come.

Is there any real good, proven method of moving on from your star QB that guarantees your team will be in the hunt for the SB in the next couple of seasons?

 

[south dakota STEEL]

Did I miss a thread where people were saying to suck for Wineston?

 

[topseed]

I think that, although you feel they may not compete for the SB this season, there's still the chance that they compete for one next season or the season after that when hopefully the young guys step up to challenge. You suggest Ben won't be playing this well 3 or 4 years from now. So we're still in your window where his upside of keeping him on the team is still greater than the downside of trading him for an unknown quantity.

Green Bay drafted for their future without Favre very early, and Rodgers sat the bench for a few years. Indy drafted for their future after a down season where Manning wasn't available and they had to rely on Kerry Collins. Brady might not have even gotten the start in New England if it weren't for Bledsoe getting injured, and Brady's time will eventually come.

Is there any real good, proven method of moving on from your star QB that guarantees your team will be in the hunt for the SB in the next couple of seasons?

Some of the cornerback play was encouraging these past few weeks from Blake and McCain, but I need to see a whole lot more. Shazier hasn't made a huge impression, even when healthy. For some reason, barring an injury, they won't even put McCullers on the field. Harrison and Keisel are the (old) guys who are stepping up their games right now, but they can't be expected to play this well consistently at their age. There isn't enough depth on this defense to rely on. Maybe they'll improve next year. I hope so.

Ben has until about the end of next season to remain great, in my opinion. Problem is, you can say the same thing about Brady and Manning. The Steelers won't be in the hunt with those guys standing in the way, no matter who their QB is. And, I'm not suggesting they would make a Super Bowl run without Ben in the next couple of seasons. They're going to have to rebuild at some point. Overpaying him is just going to delay that process, in my opinion.

 

[Idioteque]

Any team who wants to succeed has to have a huge chunk of cap earmarked for a franchise QB. Refusing to pay Ben means you're hinging your hopes on landing a stud QB in the draft AND he leads you to SB competition immediately. Simply winning with a dirt-cheap youngster like Wilson or Luck is quite rare and doesn't last long anyway. So spending your QB budget elsewhere isn't a realistic option.

 

[Wingman]

Any team who wants to succeed has to have a huge chunk of cap earmarked for a franchise QB. Refusing to pay Ben means you're hinging your hopes on landing a stud QB in the draft AND he leads you to SB competition immediately. Simply winning with a dirt-cheap youngster like Wilson or Luck is quite rare and doesn't last long anyway. So spending your QB budget elsewhere isn't a realistic option.

Think back to Ben's Rookie year, I would say that has lasted for a while. The only way to trade Ben for a lot of benefit is to trade him while he is still good and a team will want him. Once he starts to slide that window will be gone and then you will have the contract but not the player and not what you could get in trade. The teams that would be willing to do this are teams that are a quarterback away from making a run and do not want to go after a draft pick and develop him as by the time that is done they are no longer in the position to make the run. Now I am not advocating trade Ben regardless, only see what is there and is it worth it for the Steelers, I suspect the window for that will be next year and after that he will have aged to the point of not being trade able on terms that would be worth it to the steelers.

The thing to consider is this can the offense that seems to have put up numbers of points lately keep doing so on a regular basis through this season and the next four or are we about to loose a lot of guys through free agency because of dead money. If Ben and the gang can continue this for four more seasons we will be in contention for the big game for those four years if not we wasted lots of time and chances.

 

[Idioteque]

Think back to Ben's Rookie year, I would say that has lasted for a while. The only way to trade Ben for a lot of benefit is to trade him while he is still good and a team will want him. Once he starts to slide that window will be gone and then you will have the contract but not the player and not what you could get in trade. The teams that would be willing to do this are teams that are a quarterback away from making a run and do not want to go after a draft pick and develop him as by the time that is done they are no longer in the position to make the run. Now I am not advocating trade Ben regardless, only see what is there and is it worth it for the Steelers, I suspect the window for that will be next year and after that he will have aged to the point of not being trade able on terms that would be worth it to the steelers.

The thing to consider is this can the offense that seems to have put up numbers of points lately keep doing so on a regular basis through this season and the next four or are we about to loose a lot of guys through free agency because of dead money. If Ben and the gang can continue this for four more seasons we will be in contention for the big game for those four years if not we wasted lots of time and chances.

What I'm saying is that having a dirt-cheap QB still on a tiny rookie deal doesn't last long. Once they succeed, they require new deals within 3-4 years.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Jameis will not be a good NFL quarterback. Not smart enough, not mature enough. I feel sorry for the poor ******** (probably Tampa) that end up drafting that *** clown.

Think back to Ben's Rookie year, I would say that has lasted for a while. The only way to trade Ben for a lot of benefit is to trade him while he is still good and a team will want him. Once he starts to slide that window will be gone and then you will have the contract but not the player and not what you could get in trade. The teams that would be willing to do this are teams that are a quarterback away from making a run and do not want to go after a draft pick and develop him as by the time that is done they are no longer in the position to make the run. Now I am not advocating trade Ben regardless, only see what is there and is it worth it for the Steelers, I suspect the window for that will be next year and after that he will have aged to the point of not being trade able on terms that would be worth it to the steelers.

The thing to consider is this can the offense that seems to have put up numbers of points lately keep doing so on a regular basis through this season and the next four or are we about to loose a lot of guys through free agency because of dead money. If Ben and the gang can continue this for four more seasons we will be in contention for the big game for those four years if not we wasted lots of time and chances.

Excellent post. The value for the run, makes a lot of sense, good perspective. Thank you for the effort.



Salute the nation

 

[hardcore12]

Go **** yourself, pal. It's a discussion forum.

Yeah, that's what the Steelers are going to do. No ****. Doesn't mean there aren't some legitimate reasons why they shouldn't.

Have fun masturbating with your Big Ben doll until his sack-beaten body forces him to finally leave the team in financial shambles.

Again I will say idiots... You may be at the top of the list topseed.

Yeah let's not pay one of the best QB in the game and maybe of all time. Pats pay Brady. Denver pays manning. You can bet your *** we pay BEN. That's what you do. You pay the people that deserve it. The guy is a HOF QB with 5 strong years left. Of Course you pay him.

Idiots must not remember the 20 years without a QB

 

[insaniti]

Denver is really struggling having to pay Manning the way they are. The Colts really struggled when Manning was there too, how many straight years of playoffs? Exactly HALF of all NFL teams have a QB making $11,400,000 or MORE. The Seahawks, Colts, and Browns are the only teams of the rest of the league with a shot at the playoffs. Here's the other kicker tho, of all these teams signing their QB's to big contracts, none of them are giving them guaranteed contracts, the only contracts that ARE guaranteed are ROOKIE contracts.

You think Ben at $18 mil this year is bad, wait till you see the numbers Romo and Brees will cost their teams... $27.7 for Romo, $26.4 for Brees. Signing Ben to an extension will most likely lower his cap hit. And no one knows what type of deal he will sign. He COULD ask for a deal like Ryan, Rodgers, or Flacco... he has done more, but he could also sign a deal like Brady just signed, or the one that Manning signed. Both took less than the market value.

 

[t-man]

Only on this board filled with so many who know what they are talking about, yet has a collection of ******* numbskulls that would rival any brain trauma unit, would we be seriously discussing trading a ******* quarterback who JUST within the past TWO weeks, has
1- been the FIRST qb to EVER post TWO 500 plus yard games, and
2- been the FIRST qb to EVER post two back to back 6td games.

Un ******* real.

Ya can't make this **** up.

Joe