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When do the Steelers tell Ben it’s time to step aside?

Ok, I gotta pipe in here.....

1) Big Biker is our best/only option at QB. Reindeer and Redskin Castoff are not the answer. They never will be.
2) Big Biker, while 39 years old, can still sling it. His arm, does in fact, look better/healthier than last year. Is he 25 again? No. But it's FAR from looking like Marino's final year.
3) Our O-Line's pass protection is far better than it's run blocking, but our O-Line has no continuity and will continue to be a work in progress. I'm not saying we have 5 All-Pros, not saying we have 5 jobbers. I'm saying we have 5 we have no idea what we have because they've played 2 games together. ALL current and former serviceable to great lines need time to gel and become one cohesive unit.
4) Pump the breaks on all the doom and gloom or the glass is half full talk. We're two games into the season. We don't know what we have because we beat a team that we probably should have lost to, and lost to a team we should have beaten handily.......based on what we thought from what we saw LAST YEAR. We don't quite know who "the players and pretenders" are quite yet. Still too early.

Now, with all of that as a caveat, I want to interject something I've brought up previously in years past. All those who are criticizing Ben, are doing it for what I feel are the wrong reasons.
The problem with Ben is his unwillingness to leave his comfort zone, to learn something new, to change those bad habits, to not listen to his OC, to not run the play that's called.
I said in another thread, jokingly, after the Bills game "I thought Canada's offense saw the QB under center as the base formation/more frequently than we've been accustomed to". I think I've seen Ben take 2 snaps under center.
Are the coaches abandoning the run game and calling all passes? Is Ben changing runs to passes because of what he's seeing? Do we not have enough run plays out of the shotgun?
It's impossible to set-up play action passing without the QB being under center.
Years ago when Haley got fired, I got to speak with Bruce Gradkowski regarding. I've also posted about this encounter at the time. Bruce flat out said Ben didn't like Haley's coaching style/play calling. And of course our franchise QB is going to win that battle......and he probably should. That's reasonable.
But remember when Tomlin was hired and Ben's buddy Bruce Arians didn't get the gig. Ben was mad and went out to dinner with Tomlin when he was hired to tell him how things should be.
After Haley was jettisoned, it was Fichtner to appease Ben, so Ben could do what he wanted.
Now it's Canada and it still looks like Fichtner because it looks like Ben's just in the shotgun ALL game long, EVERY single game.
Forget Ben's "tells" about what kind of play is coming run vs pass. Staying in shotgun the ENTIRE game EVERY series is tell enough.
I think our OCs, sans Haley, have been hamstrung by Ben's inability to do things their way instead of his way.
Say what you want, I think Haley was as big of a douche as the next guy, but his system kept Ben upright and his best statistical season. Yeah, I know, he had a better line and a run game, too. I absolutely concede that. No argument.
And no, I am not a Tomlin defender. He needs to go before Ben does. He lets the inmates run the asylum, and that's ultimately why we are where we are. He has ZERO control over this team, his coaching staff, or his players. Because it's the Steelers/Rooneys, he sadly will not be going anywhere until he wants to, though.
But we're watching Ben cling tight to what he already knows and what he's comfortable with and NOT Canada's playbook.
We either should have kept both Ben and Fichtner, or we should have let Ben walk with Fichtner. Because right now we have a hybrid of the old regime and the new. And maybe that's the plan for life after Ben, to have Canada's playbook and terminology starting to be implemented for the next QB that Canada can actually "control" and tutor with his system.
Whatever the case may be, this is going to be a fruitless season. We have the ability with our D and Ben to get Tomlin his next not losing season. But don't kid yourself. We're not winning the SB. And if we make the playoffs, it'll look much like last year. Ben wants to keep playing sandlot football. And hey, it's got us 2 more championships for the trophy case. I'm not saying it wasn't effective, or didn't serve Ben/Steelers/us well for all these years. We lived and thrived with it for years. But I reiterate. Ben isn't 25 anymore. He's slower. His body took SO many shots early in his career when we had crappy lines before and Arians doing him in with 7 and 10 step drops. But he's not adapting to new techniques/ideas to prolong his career. He wants to go out on his terms doing what he did best and what he knows he can do because he's already done it.
So we're seeing the swan song for 25 years old in the head/39 year old in the body Ben.
It'll be ride, that's for sure.




GREAT post and thanks !

Can't argue anything because It's more likely true than not. Earlier I had held hope that maybe he gets another year but currently I'm resigned to this is it even should he go out with a Super Bowl. I ONLY see a very limited scenerio where as he returns and I'd think that would be in a back up role.

NOW should the OL get better (and they will) and the run game starts to work we will see BEN being better as well but not a new BEN able to execute the mobility of Canada's full offense. As fedderone says, we will only see a highbred version of old Ben and new offense.

Should I be GLADLEY proven wrong I'll be happy because that would mean more successful BEN.!





Salute the nation
 
I’m not going to blame Ben with the team’s offensive issues. Bottom line it always, always starts up front with your OL and currently ours flat out stinks. When the OL can’t run block and cannot protect the QB, then the offense is DOA. Hence the quick passes behind the line of scrimmage and five yards beyond. Ben has no time to have intermediate and long pass routes develop and now add no running lanes. The team needs to be bringing in OL in for a look and try and patch this line up. It’s not working with this group so what harm is it to try bringing in one or two lineman in.
This will be a long season and the team will be out of the mix early if they continue to sit on their hands and not try and insert some new lineman.
 
To be truthful, I don't think anyone is lacking in giving effort.

My biggest area of contention is with the offense clearly knowing what the defense is going to do every week and not exploiting them for it. It would be one thing if the team lacked talent at skill position, but they simply do not. They have an abundance.

At heart, as an athlete (or used to be when younger), I know that the game is often won or lost with the guys who don't make the headlines or make the splash plays.

My former HS Basketball coach in Junior year (who went on to coach professionally) elevated me to starter for the 2nd half and next game because he recognized what I was doing and noted it was the best I had played. And it wasn't because I was scoring as I had multiple games where I scored more. I just was doing the little things on both sides of the court that nudged us to win - the unexpected screen on the baseline that left our best shooter with all day to sink a 3, the rebound that I didn't get but tipped away and toward teammate, the foul that covered for a teammate's gamble and the point it cost them as they didn't make free throws in a 1 point win. And I sunk a couple shots when they came about organically.

For the wideouts, do everything JuJu does. Pay attention, run back to the ball, and don't make it about your performance. Johnson and Claypool have massive play making ability, but do the things that help Ben help them and each will get a chance to shine.

For the OL: I want to see the line play to their strength of being young. They have a burst that wasn't there last year, so smack the DL in the face. If they are going to beat you, make em earn it with an extra hit - I like this from Kendrick Green. I do believe when Zach Banner is healthy (if - praying) he's got that attitude and size to be a leader and a mean, tough son of a gun. And as undisciplined as it sounds and hurtful as a 15 yard penalty can be, don't waste it by spitting on someone Trai Turner. At least get your 15 yards worth with a hit that makes someone think twice.

And take pride in protecting your QB. If he is hit, and he will be, make sure they pay for every hit on Big Ben. That's a benefit of being young - USE IT.
That’s my point. These guys are pro’s. They made an nfl roster for a reason. I know they’re capable of getting it done. It’s just a matter if they want to
 
If this has been mentioned, I apologize. But this stuff about resting on Wednesdays...I know he is dealing with an injury this week, but how do you expect to get a real rhythm with guys working one day a week? Fridays aren't full practices I don't think.

If the arm or body can't handle the workload to allow you to develop something with the receivers during the week, maybe it is time to put someone else in. That is important. We'll see how it plays out, but I wonder if that is why we don't see a better connection with some of these receivers.
 
I’m not going to blame Ben with the team’s offensive issues. Bottom line it always, always starts up front with your OL and currently ours flat out stinks. When the OL can’t run block and cannot protect the QB, then the offense is DOA. Hence the quick passes behind the line of scrimmage and five yards beyond. Ben has no time to have intermediate and long pass routes develop and now add no running lanes. The team needs to be bringing in OL in for a look and try and patch this line up. It’s not working with this group so what harm is it to try bringing in one or two lineman in.
This will be a long season and the team will be out of the mix early if they continue to sit on their hands and not try and insert some new lineman.
This! If you can't open a running lane for the likes of Najee Harris, you can't open one for anyone.
 
So many whiney ******* on here. I'll take Ben over any QB on our roster and still over half the QB's in the league. You ******* are going to love the next decade or two while we look for our next franchise QB. I wonder how many of you whiners will give up totally on the Steelers.
 
If this has been mentioned, I apologize. But this stuff about resting on Wednesdays...I know he is dealing with an injury this week, but how do you expect to get a real rhythm with guys working one day a week? Fridays aren't full practices I don't think.

If the arm or body can't handle the workload to allow you to develop something with the receivers during the week, maybe it is time to put someone else in. That is important. We'll see how it plays out, but I wonder if that is why we don't see a better connection with some of these receivers.

All we heard about during the off-season was how Ben was fully committed to the 2021 season and doing whatever it takes to make it a success.

Continuing to not practice on Wednesdays and rarely taking snaps from under center definitely does not seem to correlate with that.
 
So many whiney ******* on here. I'll take Ben over any QB on our roster and still over half the QB's in the league. You ******* are going to love the next decade or two while we look for our next franchise QB. I wonder how many of you whiners will give up totally on the Steelers.
I don't think the Ben situation is quite like that. He is still the best QB on the team, yet is incredibly limited with what he can do. We've seen it for a long stretch now. Limited mobility, not the same zip on the ball, lacking accuracy, doesn't want to take hits, etc. If he had a strong line and running game this team would be in great shape with him under center. That just isn't the case.

Right now, there are a lot of guys I'd place ahead of him. Mahomes, Wilson, Brady, Allen, Jackson, Murray, Herbert, Stafford, Prescott, Rodgers...probably Mayfield and Carr, too.
 
Man, watching young, middling QB's like Sam Darnold and Daniel Jones getting the job done really puts things into perspective. Just the speed with which they get in and out of plays, make quick decisions, move the ball with their feet if need be. A whole different tempo to the offense.
 
Man, watching young, middling QB's like Sam Darnold and Daniel Jones getting the job done really puts things into perspective. Just the speed with which they get in and out of plays, make quick decisions, move the ball with their feet if need be. A whole different tempo to the offense.
QBs need to be mobile in today's offenses. It also helps that Darnold went from Gase to Joe Brady. Brady is gonna be a HC somewhere next year and I sure hope it's not in Cincinnati.
 
A lot of what looks like poor offensive line play are some small things that need to be cleaned up and they offensive line will improve. Here is a video breaking down 4 running plays from the Raiders game. As you'll see, the play is blocked but one guy misses his block or doesn't get to the next level quickly enough and the play gets blown up.

[video=youtube_share;i2OuyIMfxMI]

Papillon
 
So many whiney ******* on here. I'll take Ben over any QB on our roster and still over half the QB's in the league. You ******* are going to love the next decade or two while we look for our next franchise QB. I wonder how many of you whiners will give up totally on the Steelers.


It's totally going to suck! Man I remember those seasons that I knew we had absolutely zero chance to win a championship with the person we had at qb.
 
So many whiney ******* on here. I'll take Ben over any QB on our roster and still over half the QB's in the league. You ******* are going to love the next decade or two while we look for our next franchise QB. I wonder how many of you whiners will give up totally on the Steelers.

There sure are.
Whining about the offensive line, whining about the defense, whining about coaching, whining about Tomlin, whining about the play calling...whining about the QB situation...except that only whining about the QB situation really counts as whining.

Looking for our next QB is inevitable.

Id venture to say those of us here old enough have stuck with our QB deficient Steelers of the 80's.
 
I don't think the Ben situation is quite like that. He is still the best QB on the team, yet is incredibly limited with what he can do. We've seen it for a long stretch now. Limited mobility, not the same zip on the ball, lacking accuracy, doesn't want to take hits, etc. If he had a strong line and running game this team would be in great shape with him under center. That just isn't the case.

Right now, there are a lot of guys I'd place ahead of him. Mahomes, Wilson, Brady, Allen, Jackson, Murray, Herbert, Stafford, Prescott, Rodgers...probably Mayfield and Carr, too.

Geezus...stop your whining man!
I won't call you a ***** though.LOL
 
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The 80's sucked. But remember the 90's when cowherd came and our d had the fire,. And we had the run game,,,. But missing that QB. That was frustrating. Fun to watch this back then .
 
The 80's sucked. But remember the 90's when cowherd came and our d had the fire,. And we had the run game,,,. But missing that QB. That was frustrating. Fun to watch this back then .

Cowherd? No, it wasn't him lol
 
Do you believe our other options would have performed worse than Ben? I don't.
I don't either, this is almost as bad as it gets. If we wanted our QB to just throw check downs and incomplete/inaccurate passes over 10 yards we could've just started Haskins, atleast he could've ran for a few first downs. I think our best option at QB right now is Rudolph, even over Ben. Atleast he's shown to be more accurate and will connect on the deep ball more often than Ben would right now.
 
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