few guys are.......
2017 NFL Draft Q&A
- Thread starter TMC
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few guys are.......
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I'll say this... after seeing Awuzie in multiple interviews... he is an impressive young man. He would look awful good in Black and Gold.
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I'll say this... after seeing Awuzie in multiple interviews... he is an impressive young man. He would look awful good in Black and Gold.
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I have a feeling if they like him they would have to pull the trigger in 1.
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Or trade back a few spots and get him and another 3rd or 4th rounder
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I think Awuzie goes before we pick in the first round. The only way he gets to us is if those QB needy teams get really desperate, and they might, and overdraft the hell out of them. With the injuries to the CB spot, there are really only 4 that have locked into the first round IMO and they are Humphrey, Lattimore, Conley, and White. I think 2 of them, maybe 3, go top 15. Someone from 15-25 likely grabs the 4th and then, to me, Awuzie is next. If Jones had not been injured, we had a better shot.
A lot of people debated about taking an injured Karl Joseph last year with the Steelers pick, wondering if he might be able to be had in the 2nd, even with a trade up, and he went middle first. I think Awuzie is a similar value, as is Budda Baker. If either slip to us, gotta nab them at #30. The first pick in the draft is a tough decision for the Steelers. If they go OLB and there is a run on DBs, might miss the top guys. If they go DB and you have a run on OLBs, might miss the top guys. Really wishing they had a higher second round pick so I could nab the edge/DB I wanted.
A lot of people debated about taking an injured Karl Joseph last year with the Steelers pick, wondering if he might be able to be had in the 2nd, even with a trade up, and he went middle first. I think Awuzie is a similar value, as is Budda Baker. If either slip to us, gotta nab them at #30. The first pick in the draft is a tough decision for the Steelers. If they go OLB and there is a run on DBs, might miss the top guys. If they go DB and you have a run on OLBs, might miss the top guys. Really wishing they had a higher second round pick so I could nab the edge/DB I wanted.
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Cool. Like I said I am looking for guys in the later rounds who might fit a need. I really like Woods and feel he could sit on the depth chart a year or two and play special teams (take Shamarkos spot) and maybe take the FS starting position in 2019. If we got him in round 4 I wouldn't be upset. Ford and Nicholson both showed more athleticism than I thought and Ford looked better last year than this. I would be fine taking either with our 7th and see what we have when we get them into camp.
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I like his upside too. The perfect scenario for the Steelers to if there is a QB on the board a team wants, and they trade down out of round one, and pick up an early 2nd and say 4th round pick.
This way they can get a top corner or edge guy who has a first round grade, but due to a deep draft if picked in the early second.
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Awuzie is turning into this season's Byron Jones. One of those super athletic secondary players that starts out in the middle of everyone's radar and just keeps rising and rising and rising. Not sure what I make of that. When I watched film, you saw the athleticism but he plays like a tweener in their system. Not a lot of coverage downfield. Hands people off in zone concepts a lot. Plays the slot. Blitzes.
I had some notes he might be better at safety, but not really a free safety cover-3 guy either. You kind of have to find a spot for him. Maybe as a zone outside guy. Maybe as a very physical slot corner. Line him up over slot TE's, etc.
He's a hell of an athlete though.
Watch the video of him vs. Colorado State at 1:48. I mean, this is a very good game for him in general, very active, gets a pick. But that little flip he does after the tackle is pretty special, even for NFL athletes....
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/chidobe-awuzie-vs-colorado-state-2016/
I had some notes he might be better at safety, but not really a free safety cover-3 guy either. You kind of have to find a spot for him. Maybe as a zone outside guy. Maybe as a very physical slot corner. Line him up over slot TE's, etc.
He's a hell of an athlete though.
Watch the video of him vs. Colorado State at 1:48. I mean, this is a very good game for him in general, very active, gets a pick. But that little flip he does after the tackle is pretty special, even for NFL athletes....
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/chidobe-awuzie-vs-colorado-state-2016/
Awoozy Gay **** Burns
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Awuzie was in my mocks for round two, but his workouts pretty much eliminate his chances of falling to our second round pick.
I see value as a slot corner, a blitzer from the slot position ( seven sacks over final two seasons at Colorado ) our an outside #2 corner who can play man. Reports say he's great on special teams too.
I would be all right with him in round one based on our needs for both the slot and an outside #2 who can play some man as Gay is older, was never big and is now slower, and Cockrell needs a huge cushion due to his lack of speed, and is better suited to be a zone package cornerback.
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Awuzie was actually the emergency safety at Colorado. He knew every defensive assignment and could play an spot in the secondary. In fact, they had a practice in 2014 after losing to Washington and the coaches were pissed because they felt the players were not hustling enough. They wanted another snap and Awuzie stepped in at safety. The coaches were on their *** about hustling and a throw came to his side. He went hard after the pass, the other safety White did the same, big collision and Awuzie crashed to the ground. He got up and finished practice even though it hurt. In the locker room, he is pissing blood. His side became discolored, hospital, lacerated kidney. That ended his season. He was back ready for spring ball, roughly 3 months. As a freshman, he started 6 games at nickel, 1 at left corner. He started 9 games at corner in his sophomore season before the kidney. He started 12 as a junior, was second-team All-Pac-12. He worked as a corner and nickel. As a senior, started every game, was first team All-Pac-12, voted team MVP at Colorado, and coaches selected him as a co-recipient of the Eddie Crowder Award for outstanding leadership. He and Tedric Thompson quarterback that defense. And, he lines up other corners, safeties, linebackers, and tells guys where they need to be pre-snap all the time.
If the Steelers can land guys like Awuzie and Baker, it will go a long way towards fixing this defense. Awuzie is smart as hell. So is Baker. Their pre-snap reads come from hours of film study and understanding team tendencies. You can see it in the snap to react to plays. When you add those to the group with guys like Sean Davis, another smart safety, then you have a secondary that isn't blowing assignments and allowing guys like Hogan to run free in the endzone. We need them more than we need tall guys that can run fast. You have a couple in Shazier and Davis, need to stack more in. I think Burns is another...not so sure with Mitchell. He damn sure isn't Ryan Clark back there.
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Let me first say this...we have the best board for this time of year, IMO. Thank you Tom for coming back, hope you stick around. Great work and effort by a lot of guys here, Del, etc. I wish I could sit and chat all day but I'm in the middle of moving back to Texas from out west.
TMC, please help me out. I am in full understanding of the need for a $backer or a slot capable extra man (be it a FS, SS or CB) for our packages which represent more and more of our defense. What I fail to understand is WTF were we doing looking at Hightower? He is more Levon Kirkland than anything. At 265# and at least as slow as Timmons (even at his age).
Were they concerned with Shazier's ability to call the defense? Hightower is a better option than Vince but has the same liabilities in coverage no? WTH were they planning to do with him on 3rd and passing situations? I've got some ideas based on what I would do if FORCED to own a player I couldn't afford to take off the field. Maybe take an OLB off the field and leave Hightower in the middle allowing for Shazier to roam/blitz while still alllowing an extra DB on the field. That's all I got on it though. I just don't get it.
Next, while I really love the depth at certain positions in this draft, I have reservations about a few players that we "might" take with the first pick. First on my list is Tak. I don't hate him...I just don't like him. I watched all of the tape on the guy and it seems he has zero hands and zero explosion to me. His numbers don't look like a first round "can't miss". He was mostly neutered against decent OL all year. His Stanford reps look like Jarvis' out there. So, I watched his sack compilation...even worse. He WAS Jarvis out there. He accumulated 40% of his sacks with "inside" moves with the rest being either horrible blocking technique or duration sacks. Just like Jarvis' tape. I know he's raw but damn, I just don't see the player everyone is excited about w him. He is compared by some with Tamba Hali??? Yea, Hali was 25# heavier and was an animal with the legs and bubble to drive through guys. Is there anything you can say to assuage my nervousness over this kid?
IMO, we only have a few players that I would target with the first pick. Either we get the aforementioned positional player which would allow us to play more 'man/split/zone' coverage with our sub packages OR we get the OLB we want who can be a highly explosive addition THIS year as a sub and hopefully next as a full timer. I've always personally thought Butler would gravitate towards bigger/heavier OLBs because we play so much sub now w only 2 down linemen on the field but I guess I could be flat wrong. I'd rather have a 'Ryan Kerrigan' who I think Watt could develop into as his technique is damn good for only 1 year. I'd stick him w Harrison to learn the right way to muscle-up and have him watch tape of Kerrigan and his brother's hand use over and over. With a year and 20-25# of good muscle on him he could be truly dominant, IMO.
For the record, I still don't like Mitchell (he's no Clark or Hope, IMO) but I understand somebody has to know the defense in the back end. What do YOU think is the plan back there? Anything? It should be noted that while Cockrell fared pretty well in coverage and can play some 'man' against certain types, he missed a ton of tackles. In fact, he led the team in missed tackles followed by Shazier and Mitchell. (31, 25 and 21 according to PFF)
I have a lot more questions but not as much time as I'd like. THX
TMC, please help me out. I am in full understanding of the need for a $backer or a slot capable extra man (be it a FS, SS or CB) for our packages which represent more and more of our defense. What I fail to understand is WTF were we doing looking at Hightower? He is more Levon Kirkland than anything. At 265# and at least as slow as Timmons (even at his age).
Were they concerned with Shazier's ability to call the defense? Hightower is a better option than Vince but has the same liabilities in coverage no? WTH were they planning to do with him on 3rd and passing situations? I've got some ideas based on what I would do if FORCED to own a player I couldn't afford to take off the field. Maybe take an OLB off the field and leave Hightower in the middle allowing for Shazier to roam/blitz while still alllowing an extra DB on the field. That's all I got on it though. I just don't get it.
Next, while I really love the depth at certain positions in this draft, I have reservations about a few players that we "might" take with the first pick. First on my list is Tak. I don't hate him...I just don't like him. I watched all of the tape on the guy and it seems he has zero hands and zero explosion to me. His numbers don't look like a first round "can't miss". He was mostly neutered against decent OL all year. His Stanford reps look like Jarvis' out there. So, I watched his sack compilation...even worse. He WAS Jarvis out there. He accumulated 40% of his sacks with "inside" moves with the rest being either horrible blocking technique or duration sacks. Just like Jarvis' tape. I know he's raw but damn, I just don't see the player everyone is excited about w him. He is compared by some with Tamba Hali??? Yea, Hali was 25# heavier and was an animal with the legs and bubble to drive through guys. Is there anything you can say to assuage my nervousness over this kid?
IMO, we only have a few players that I would target with the first pick. Either we get the aforementioned positional player which would allow us to play more 'man/split/zone' coverage with our sub packages OR we get the OLB we want who can be a highly explosive addition THIS year as a sub and hopefully next as a full timer. I've always personally thought Butler would gravitate towards bigger/heavier OLBs because we play so much sub now w only 2 down linemen on the field but I guess I could be flat wrong. I'd rather have a 'Ryan Kerrigan' who I think Watt could develop into as his technique is damn good for only 1 year. I'd stick him w Harrison to learn the right way to muscle-up and have him watch tape of Kerrigan and his brother's hand use over and over. With a year and 20-25# of good muscle on him he could be truly dominant, IMO.
For the record, I still don't like Mitchell (he's no Clark or Hope, IMO) but I understand somebody has to know the defense in the back end. What do YOU think is the plan back there? Anything? It should be noted that while Cockrell fared pretty well in coverage and can play some 'man' against certain types, he missed a ton of tackles. In fact, he led the team in missed tackles followed by Shazier and Mitchell. (31, 25 and 21 according to PFF)
I have a lot more questions but not as much time as I'd like. THX
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What you get with Hightower is someone that can get your defense aligned pre-snap, understands what you want to do, and carries out the assignments exactly how you want them done. That is his strength. He understands scheme, reads pre-snap alignments, and gets the defense set. By him doing that, you free up Shazier to be that playmaker. He is Ryan Clark (Hightower) to Shazier (Troy Polamalu). Timmons couldn't do that, is why Shazier wears the dot. He likely would never man up in coverage, but he is decent in zone. I'm not really sold on him from an athletic standpoint either. I would rather get a big safety with some brains to play the spot, someone that can read the play, understand your defense and offensive alignments, keep you in position, and still give you some coverage. But, he was floating out there, they probably entertained the idea of getting him at a decent price, but I would be shocked if they would have paid what the Pats did.
I like Takk. He isn't a bendy guy. I don't think he will ever tilt the world around the edge, but I disagree about his ability to use his hands. Many OL try to cut him, he extends his arms, keeps his feet clean, and plays off those blocks with ease. He has a baby rip, shows a decent spin, but I'm not sure he has confidence in it yet. He can press the outside edge with speed and if he gets leverage, he has enough power to push through the block. He rarely gets pushed around, plays hard every snap. I mean, you know you've been in a fight. Most teams knew where he was and would help when needed. Watch this clip, it is him against Utah and when he is at ROLB, that is Garrett Bolles, one of the top 3 OTs in the draft. McKinley just plays so hard. He is a helluva athlete too, former track guy. I'm not against inside moves as the shortest distance to the QB would be shooting the inside gap. Takk's speed and burst off the snap when he pushes the outside is what sets up those inside moves. Takk also seems to see plays pretty well, readjusts to ball fakes and follows the ball. He doesn't get fooled a lot. His coaches love him. USC even had an article about him where they were discussing how important it was to keep him blocked if they wanted to win. So, he is pretty good. Still don't think it will be an issue for us. I think he is gone.
I don't expect us to draft another 270-pound OLB unless another athletic freak is sitting there like Dupree was. They are taking long hard looks at OLBs in the 240-250 range, speed guys that can bend the edge. Watt might be the guy. Hard to say. I think the Packers might nab him, he seems to fit them, IMO. Just feels right.
I think the back end plan is to continue to bolster it with athletic coverage guys. If they have a shot at another "Sean Davis" type, they will make that pick all day long. Former corner, can cover, speed, will hit....he seems like the prototype. I think Josh Jones would be a good fit on the back end. I've stated I like Budda Baker as a FS (his awareness and range is Earl Thomas like). He can play in the slot until the day comes where he is pressed into deep duty (deep doodie). He played a ton in the slot in college, covered a lot of WRs. He tackles well for a smaller DB, gets the legs of guys, cuts them down. He is a 4-year starter, only missed one game with an ankle. His coaches love him, call him the best player on the field any time he steps on it. That is high praise for a staff that sent players like Marcus Peters to the pros. They coach defense up there and he looks to be the type guy that was a teaching assistant. On a defense with Kevin King and Sidney Jones in the secondary (two potential first round talents...if Jones wasn't injured), he stood out each week. He just jumps off the film. But, there are others. Marcus Williams can play. So can Josh Jones. Marcus Maye is really good too. I like John Johnson (BC), Reyshawn Jenkins (Miami, was Burns teammate), Tedric Thompson, and Xavier Woods all might be able to handle deep safety. Then, you have some guys that can potentially walk down on the 2nd level like Melinfonwu, Jenkins, Josh Jones, Nate Gerry, and Tony Annese.
It really boils down to how this draft unfolds and if we are ahead of the runs or chasing them. If we can stay ahead, look for a really great haul of talent, even better than last year.
I like Takk. He isn't a bendy guy. I don't think he will ever tilt the world around the edge, but I disagree about his ability to use his hands. Many OL try to cut him, he extends his arms, keeps his feet clean, and plays off those blocks with ease. He has a baby rip, shows a decent spin, but I'm not sure he has confidence in it yet. He can press the outside edge with speed and if he gets leverage, he has enough power to push through the block. He rarely gets pushed around, plays hard every snap. I mean, you know you've been in a fight. Most teams knew where he was and would help when needed. Watch this clip, it is him against Utah and when he is at ROLB, that is Garrett Bolles, one of the top 3 OTs in the draft. McKinley just plays so hard. He is a helluva athlete too, former track guy. I'm not against inside moves as the shortest distance to the QB would be shooting the inside gap. Takk's speed and burst off the snap when he pushes the outside is what sets up those inside moves. Takk also seems to see plays pretty well, readjusts to ball fakes and follows the ball. He doesn't get fooled a lot. His coaches love him. USC even had an article about him where they were discussing how important it was to keep him blocked if they wanted to win. So, he is pretty good. Still don't think it will be an issue for us. I think he is gone.
I don't expect us to draft another 270-pound OLB unless another athletic freak is sitting there like Dupree was. They are taking long hard looks at OLBs in the 240-250 range, speed guys that can bend the edge. Watt might be the guy. Hard to say. I think the Packers might nab him, he seems to fit them, IMO. Just feels right.
I think the back end plan is to continue to bolster it with athletic coverage guys. If they have a shot at another "Sean Davis" type, they will make that pick all day long. Former corner, can cover, speed, will hit....he seems like the prototype. I think Josh Jones would be a good fit on the back end. I've stated I like Budda Baker as a FS (his awareness and range is Earl Thomas like). He can play in the slot until the day comes where he is pressed into deep duty (deep doodie). He played a ton in the slot in college, covered a lot of WRs. He tackles well for a smaller DB, gets the legs of guys, cuts them down. He is a 4-year starter, only missed one game with an ankle. His coaches love him, call him the best player on the field any time he steps on it. That is high praise for a staff that sent players like Marcus Peters to the pros. They coach defense up there and he looks to be the type guy that was a teaching assistant. On a defense with Kevin King and Sidney Jones in the secondary (two potential first round talents...if Jones wasn't injured), he stood out each week. He just jumps off the film. But, there are others. Marcus Williams can play. So can Josh Jones. Marcus Maye is really good too. I like John Johnson (BC), Reyshawn Jenkins (Miami, was Burns teammate), Tedric Thompson, and Xavier Woods all might be able to handle deep safety. Then, you have some guys that can potentially walk down on the 2nd level like Melinfonwu, Jenkins, Josh Jones, Nate Gerry, and Tony Annese.
It really boils down to how this draft unfolds and if we are ahead of the runs or chasing them. If we can stay ahead, look for a really great haul of talent, even better than last year.
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Or a raw fish like Burns.
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Reports indicate that we did offer him more than what he signed for with the Pats. Steelers told him if he leaves without signing the offer would be pulled and it was...Jets actually offered more than the Steelers did. In the end he signed back with NE for less.That was a lot of change that was offered and in the end we didn't get him anyways. So where does that leave us? I know all the FA CB's went for some insane $$$ but to me it would have been crazy to sign Hightower to the number that we offered. I would have liked if we brought in a CB that can man up. The price is what it is now. You need CB's that can cover in today's NFL. I would LOVE to see us press WR's at the LOS on 3rd and 1(short). With our cushions QB's have been taking advantage of the short pass for years...going back to Dick L. This makes for long sustained drives. Keeps our offense on the sideline. In the end I guess I would have rather over spent on a cover CB(the going rate) than make that offer to Hightower. My biggest disappointment is that I don't even recall any visits from any of the CB's that were on the market. So we go into next season most likely employing the exact soft coverage on third and short??????
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Where did the reports originate? I'd bet it was his agent. I cannot recall the Steelers ever coming out and stating we offered this player X amount. They do not even announce contract terms. It comes out from league offices. But, the Jets said otherwise:
So, I'm not sure what he was offered by the Steelers. I would be willing to bet that the main reason he was brought in was to get the team doctors to take a look at him because he has a pretty long injury history. Where does it leave us? Probably in a better situation. We did not get a LB that lacks athleticism and we did not spend $10M a year.
As for overspending on a cover corner, there were only a couple guys that had value in this free agent class. Dre Kirkpatrick is barely average. Stephon Gilmore is solid in the shorter areas, but if you look at his numbers last year, when they put him in man coverage down the field, he had one of the worst completion rates against him in the NFL. Teams were consistently going over the top on him because he struggles to turn and locate the football. And, he sucks in zone coverages because he blows his assignments trying to jump routes. AJ Bouye had one year as a starter, probably the best guy available. Butler would be nice, not sure I want to pay $14 million a season and hand New England draft picks. I would have liked Davon House, but really, in a draft where cornerback is the deepest I have ever seen, do I really want to spend all that money on a player that has questions? Why not draft one that has questions. Hell, draft two. And, maybe if you draft a guy, he can play man and zone to open your play calls up.
As for next season, I'll wait until after the draft to see what happens. I'm certainly not going to lose hope today. As I have said, if they can land players like Awuzie or Baker, guys that can play several spots, as rookies they can walk up in the face of slot receivers and man cover them. BOTH were high end slot coverage guys in college. They both covered the slot on a regular basis and both did it exceptionally well. Both can play man and zone. So, if you nab that type of guy early, probably with pick #30, then maybe hit your edge rusher at #62, you have a shot to come back and get a edge corner in the 3rd because there should be longer, less athletic edges available through the 3rd. The guys that are really hard to get are the players that have speed to handle the edge and enough quickness and recognition to handle playing inside as well. We won't play Burns over the slot. He doesn't have that elite COD to handle being a slot receiver. Guys can set him up with a move to one side, break inside, and be running free. He is better on an edge where he has a sideline and can shade receivers. I like him, but we really need a corner than can handle smaller slot receivers. If the receivers are bigger, you can walk longer, less athletic corners down on them and get away with it. Same with TEs. There are several really good looking potential slot corners in this draft that also have the ability to do other things (play outside as a corner or deep as a safety). I think we should really be interested in one of those guys.
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Just read this from Rob Rang:
https://twitter.com/RobRang/status/851981779456184320
That is 22 corners carrying top 100 grades or almost 1/4th of the players that could be drafted by that point. That does not include the safeties, which I would think there are about 10-12.
https://twitter.com/RobRang/status/851981779456184320
That is 22 corners carrying top 100 grades or almost 1/4th of the players that could be drafted by that point. That does not include the safeties, which I would think there are about 10-12.
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I hope we do get a player or 2 as you describe. My personal frustration isn't necessarily this past FA period but the last couple of years.
Also I know everyone has thanks you for coming back. I want to thank you also. There a handful of guys that do the work on here and I love reading all of the insight. Thanks guys.
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So basically you saying switching Burns from the outside to the slot to cover Edelman Man to man would of been a disaster in the AFC championship??
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Yeah. Gay was probably our best slot corner and we see how that worked out. I cannot remember whether it was Tomlin or Butler, but one of them said prior to the season that they needed to get more versatile corners. They needed guys that could walk up on the DB and press, even if they were dropping into a zone, they wanted to knock the receiver off his marks before they dropped, so they disrupted any pattern. They also want guys that can give the look of off zone coverage but man up. In essence, they want corners that can get in the face of WRs and play man or drop into zone as well as corners that can be off and play man or zone. But, Burns doesn't have elite change of direction. He needs hands on a guy and one of the statements from Tomlin last year was he needed to get stronger...and that is because when he jams, some WRs just brush it off and drive through him. He is still growing, but he will never be an inside guy.
Coty Sensabaugh could though. He was a pretty damn fine slot corner before becoming a free agent, getting a bigger deal, and being moved outside. He struggled outside. He is better inside. So, I would not write him completely off as your slot/4th/5th CB. It is why Awuzie and Baker interest me so much. If you have your secondary of Burns/Mitchell/Davis/Cockrell, they are your entrenched starters. Say you draft Awuzie. He has the length and toughness to play outside and the quickness to play inside. He will also tackle, so if you play him in the slot, you get that quasi-LB/CB combo. But, say Awuzie and Sensabaugh both perform well in the slot. Then, you might replace Cockrell outside with Awuzie and let Sensabaugh be your slot. If Cockrell plays well, then you keep Awuzie inside. Same with Baker. If Sensabaugh plays well, you can use him at safety. If Mitchell is playing well, you keep him at slot. Even if I draft one of those two, I still comeback looking for a press corner in the 3rd/4th. I'm kind of tired of trotting out other team's castoffs at DB and I think the best way to get elite guys is to draft them. This draft is strong there, get a couple DBs. Hell, 2 corners and a guy that can play FS would make me happy. If they went DB/OLB/FS/CB in this draft, I would not complain. It sets you up for a decade in your secondary and we are not smashmouth football anymore, it is arena ball. Butler actually said this last year:
So, whether we are a true nickel (2 ILBs), a heavy nickel (1 ILB/1$backer) or a dime (6 DBs, 1 ILB), that is what they are moving towards. The big questions for me, do they go traditional at the other ILB spot and how heavy do they make the front four. They still need 6 starting capable DBs.
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The way I look at it, who are your locked in, no doubt starters? On the DL, it has to be Heyward and Tuitt in any scheme. Shazier is in. Dupree is in. Burns, Mitchell, and Davis should be considered locks (at least for now). So, that is 7 of your 11 guys. Who are the next best players? I think Harrison and Hargrave have to be in that mix. Even if you draft a guy behind Harrison, he is still in the mix. That is 9. So, you really need a corner to challenge Cockrell. That gives you 10. If you draft an ILB or start Williams, back to base 3-4. If you draft a nickel, you still a nickel or 3-3-5, just a different front 6.
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