2017 NFL Draft Q&A

[TMC]

I'll also add that I won't be available much through the day on Friday because my company has a pretty strict filter for allowed websites and this one is usually blocked. When I do pop in during the day, it is usually off a tablet I have but the keyboard sucks. But, I get off work at 4 each day, so should be online Thurs, Friday, and Saturday. Wife usually leaves me alone on draft weekend.

 

[keslerclan]

Let me also add, pretty sure that is TJ Watt working out next to Takk.

I know you already know I'm a 'half-empty' reviewer of Takk. Here's how I saw the video..."I hate grinding. I have to use my dead grandma to motivate me. This is hard and the NFL will be harder. I was unmotivated to go to classes as well but I soon realized I have to go to class too if I wanna be in college. Why is that white boy always finished before me in all of the drills?"

I know, he might end up being the shiznit BUT I'll take a guy that LOVES to grind like Deebo all day over a guy who sounds like the only reason he's doing it is because he doesn't want to let his granma down.

Saw the interview with Mooch and a handful of Edge guys including Watt on Game Changers...they all looked at him funny when he said he loves to work out and practice because he loves football so much. That's why I like him. He will get better and stronger faster because he loves it. Not too many of those anymore.

 

[Slaine]

Well, you have Marlon Humphrey, Chidobe Awuzie, Budda Baker, and TJ Watt available. I really don't think Humphrey is there, at all, he should go top 20 at least, but I like Awuzie out of the group because it just keeps the draft so open for me. If a slot corner is available later, I play Awuzie on the edge. If an edge is available, even if Awuzie wins the edge full time, I can bring in the other player and slide him inside. He is good enough to do that. I'd hope for a Carl Lawson/Derek Rivers in the 2nd and the come back to DB in the 3rd. That is the feel I am getting from this draft right now, DB/OLB might be the best course. And, all those teams that drafted edge rushers in the first won't be looking for edges in the 2nd, but they might be taking DBs because that is the sweet spot for DBs. So, I think I get my guy first and hope an edge falls.

Sounds reasonable. This draft is so big for us. We need to come out with starter calibre players at two tough positions.

 

[TMC]

I know you already know I'm a 'half-empty' reviewer of Takk. Here's how I saw the video..."I hate grinding. I have to use my dead grandma to motivate me. This is hard and the NFL will be harder. I was unmotivated to go to classes as well but I soon realized I have to go to class too if I wanna be in college. Why is that white boy always finished before me in all of the drills?"

I know, he might end up being the shiznit BUT I'll take a guy that LOVES to grind like Deebo all day over a guy who sounds like the only reason he's doing it is because he doesn't want to let his granma down.

Saw the interview with Mooch and a handful of Edge guys including Watt on Game Changers...they all looked at him funny when he said he loves to work out and practice because he loves football so much. That's why I like him. He will get better and stronger faster because he loves it. Not too many of those anymore.

I don't see that at all. Every person that walks the face of the earth has moments in their life where they just want to lay down. Everybody has them. Some people just don't let those moments break them. There is something that keeps them in the fight. For McKinley, it is a promise to his grandmother. I'm not sure how stating every level will be harder is some type of negative, should be pretty common knowledge and you have to realize that the work you have to put in will be much greater than what you did prior. Was he unmotivated to go to classes? Probably. I'm not sure how many 10th grade kids who don't have either parent in their life and has a grandmother as a guardian who is ill and they are caring for while trying to go to school and play a sport can keep all that together. Hell, many adults couldn't. Watching the single person that was closest to you for you whole life wither and dye while you can do nothing to stop it isn't easy. It can break the strongest person. Did he waiver? Certainly. When his goal/promise to play Div 1A wasn't realized he thought of quitting. Everyone thinks of quitting sometimes. Everyone waivers. But, he went to JuCo, did well, ended up at UCLA. The thing is, according to the D-line coach and later, his own high school, he had the credits to be academically eligible. Then, at UCLA, when he gets to a stable place, he flourishes. Coach was worried he was a recluse early on because he stayed in his room all the time, when he asked him about it, Takk said it was the first time he had a room and a bed of his own. Think about that a minute, no parents, lost the single most important person in your life, rough neighborhood, nothing to latch onto to stay grounded, yet he keeps moving forward. You might see him being open and honest about his thoughts as a detractor, I see someone that just keeps overcoming obstacles.

I like TJ Watt well enough, but I wonder how he would have fared without parents or brothers guiding him. How he would have done living with relatives, attending school functions where other kids have parents there and you have no one. I wonder how he will bounce back if **** gets really tough for him. We see Takk's complete character, all of it, from the thoughts of quitting to the steady progression through life where he overcomes obstacles. Has TJ been tested to that extent yet?

I'll throw this video in too, where Jim Mora calls him tough a gritty. That is a former NFL coach talking him up.

 

[ark steel]

Last year I had a clusterfuck breakdown after they drafted Burns instead of trading down. Good times, good times

Don't remember, specifically, but you, probably, weren't alone.


A few people were having fits when we kept passing on one guy (Billings?) Turns out there was information out there (that we didn't hear until later in the draft) that there we knee problems for that player.

 

[ark steel]

I don't see that at all. Every person that walks the face of the earth has moments in their life where they just want to lay down. Everybody has them. Some people just don't let those moments break them. There is something that keeps them in the fight. For McKinley, it is a promise to his grandmother. I'm not sure how stating every level will be harder is some type of negative, should be pretty common knowledge and you have to realize that the work you have to put in will be much greater than what you did prior. Was he unmotivated to go to classes? Probably. I'm not sure how many 10th grade kids who don't have either parent in their life and has a grandmother as a guardian who is ill and they are caring for while trying to go to school and play a sport can keep all that together. Hell, many adults couldn't. Watching the single person that was closest to you for you whole life wither and dye while you can do nothing to stop it isn't easy. It can break the strongest person. Did he waiver? Certainly. When his goal/promise to play Div 1A wasn't realized he thought of quitting. Everyone thinks of quitting sometimes. Everyone waivers. But, he went to JuCo, did well, ended up at UCLA. The thing is, according to the D-line coach and later, his own high school, he had the credits to be academically eligible. Then, at UCLA, when he gets to a stable place, he flourishes. Coach was worried he was a recluse early on because he stayed in his room all the time, when he asked him about it, Takk said it was the first time he had a room and a bed of his own. Think about that a minute, no parents, lost the single most important person in your life, rough neighborhood, nothing to latch onto to stay grounded, yet he keeps moving forward. You might see him being open and honest about his thoughts as a detractor, I see someone that just keeps overcoming obstacles.

I like TJ Watt well enough, but I wonder how he would have fared without parents or brothers guiding him. How he would have done living with relatives, attending school functions where other kids have parents there and you have no one. I wonder how he will bounce back if **** gets really tough for him. We see Takk's complete character, all of it, from the thoughts of quitting to the steady progression through life where he overcomes obstacles. Has TJ been tested to that extent yet?

I'll throw this video in too, where Jim Mora calls him tough a gritty. That is a former NFL coach talking him up.

Does the strength he shows in the one video and the commitment shown in his actions show up on his film? That looked like a post college workout, which, presumably, has added strength since college.

In another thread, del compared Takk''s game tape to Jarvis Jones'. I don't know if he has softened on that or not.

 

[TMC]

Does the strength he shows in the one video and the commitment shown in his actions show up on his film? That looked like a post college workout, which, presumably, has added strength since college.

In another thread, del compared Takk''s game tape to Jarvis Jones'. I don't know if he has softened on that or not.

Yeah, I think it does. The one thing I think I can say about Takk McKinley with 100% confidence is, when the game is over, you know you've been in a fight. Don't believe me, here are some of the draft bios:

NFL.com's first sentence under positives is: "Relentless worker bee on the field. Refuses to give offensive tackles a snap to catch their breath."
Lance Zeirlien said: "With all of that said, the word "relentless" might not completely capture his motor. He has a slippery way of working off blocks and finding his way into sacks and tackle production. It doesn't always look pretty for him, but the effort is top-notch, and with coaching, he should projects as a solid NFL starter."
Mike Mayock had him as one of the elite-8 pass rushers in this class (he mentioned TJ Watt in that as well). Here is a tweet from Mayock:
https://twitter.com/MikeMayock/status/843115438263484416


So, yeah, I think he shows that strength, played with a torn rotator cuff and I was doing some research on that and one of the articles I read talked about a slow deterioration of the strength in the shoulder over time if the injury was not treated. He said it bothered him for 2 seasons. So, I expect the strength to show even more. Long armed kid too, uses those limbs to keep guys off him. Great at avoiding cut blocks. I'll add something else, this is the kind of guy looking for a place to belong. He settled in at UCLA and they became family to him. He gets in a place like Pittsburgh, he could really thrive.

 

[Litos]

Don't remember, specifically, but you, probably, weren't alone.


A few people were having fits when we kept passing on one guy (Billings?) Turns out there was information out there (that we didn't hear until later in the draft) that there we knee problems for that player.

To my defense, the next day with more info on Burns I accepted the pick and saw a lot of potential, what I didn't like much is that I wanted a ready to start player, like WJIII ( look how that turned out).

Also I did like the Davis pick though I wanted Simmons in the 3rd, Davis offered versatility and Simmons was a pure FS.

I didn't care much about billings, the time for a pure NT is over

 

[keslerclan]

Does the strength he shows in the one video and the commitment shown in his actions show up on his film? That looked like a post college workout, which, presumably, has added strength since college.

In another thread, del compared Takk''s game tape to Jarvis Jones'. I don't know if he has softened on that or not.

Hey Ark, don't want you to throw del under the bus, it was me who compared Takk's tape in some games to Jarvis'.

I don't want to belabor the opinion I have of the kid and I truly find his story heartwarming and wish him the very best...I just don't see him the same as most. That's it. I like a bunch of talented kids, some will never even make it in this league. I really liked Anthony Barr out of UCLA and he was rated as a top 10 pick @ Edge rusher. I was wrong. Barr doesn't even play OLB. He is now an SLB in the 4-3. Mayock had Barr, Shazier and Demarcus Lawrence ranked 2,3,4 behind Khalil Mack. Well, Shaz isn't playing outside either. Mack leads the class with 30 sacks to date with Barr at 9.5 after 3 years.

I think this draft will produce a better crop of Edge rushers than 2014 BUT we all have to remember, it's NOT likely any will be an immediate contributor in all reality. The draft "is like a box of chocolates..."

 

[ark steel]

Hey Ark, don't want you to throw del under the bus, it was me who compared Takk's tape in some games to Jarvis'.

I don't want to belabor the opinion I have of the kid and I truly find his story heartwarming and wish him the very best...I just don't see him the same as most. That's it. I like a bunch of talented kids, some will never even make it in this league. I really liked Anthony Barr out of UCLA and he was rated as a top 10 pick @ Edge rusher. I was wrong. Barr doesn't even play OLB. He is now an SLB in the 4-3. Mayock had Barr, Shazier and Demarcus Lawrence ranked 2,3,4 behind Khalil Mack. Well, Shaz isn't playing outside either. Mack leads the class with 30 sacks to date with Barr at 9.5 after 3 years.

I think this draft will produce a better crop of Edge rushers than 2014 BUT we all have to remember, it's NOT likely any will be an immediate contributor in all reality. The draft "is like a box of chocolates..."

Ahh. Sorry to attribute that to del. It was dels thread and I am easily confused.

 

[TMC]

Does the strength he shows in the one video and the commitment shown in his actions show up on his film? That looked like a post college workout, which, presumably, has added strength since college.

In another thread, del compared Takk''s game tape to Jarvis Jones'. I don't know if he has softened on that or not.

Oddly enough, I ran across this today and thought it fit Takk McKinley, so I thought I would share....because you never know what drives a person to stay in the fight.

 

[Tibs]

TMC, welcome back man. I've been looking for some sleeper, mid-to-late round prospects to get excited about.

CB's Shaquill Griffin (UCF) and Brendan Langley (Lamar)
Both of these guys hit the marks as far as size, speed, athleticsm. If we miss out on a corner early, these guys should be around mid rounds.

WR Robert Davis (Georgia State) is my favorite sleeper reciver. 6-3 219 runs a 4.4. I see another 6th round gem in this guy.

LB Samson Ebukam (Eastern Washington) is my sleeper-developmental edge rusher in case the Steelers want to double dip with a guy late in the draft.

What do you think of these guys? Feel free to add some more names we should be keeping ours eyes on later in the draft.

 

[TMC]

TMC, welcome back man. I've been looking for some sleeper, mid-to-late round prospects to get excited about.

CB's Shaquill Griffin (UCF) and Brendan Langley (Lamar)
Both of these guys hit the marks as far as size, speed, athleticsm. If we miss out on a corner early, these guys should be around mid rounds.

WR Robert Davis (Georgia State) is my favorite sleeper reciver. 6-3 219 runs a 4.4. I see another 6th round gem in this guy.

LB Samson Ebukam (Eastern Washington) is my sleeper-developmental edge rusher in case the Steelers want to double dip with a guy late in the draft.

What do you think of these guys? Feel free to add some more names we should be keeping ours eyes on later in the draft.

I like all 4. I think Griffin is exceptionally athletic, but he needs coaching. Langley is kind of sloppy in his technique, like he has tried to learn it on his own, but he really needs a coach that will get in there and beat the repetition into his head, because he has to do the same thing over and over until it becomes his norm. I think both can be taught and you don't get height/weight/speed guys like that late in most drafts. This draft is just do deep, those guys are falling. They are your Ike Taylor type players.

Robert Davis is a big, fast, small school stud. I like him a lot.

We have talked about Ebukam here. I think he is a little out of control sometimes and blockers can use his momentum against him, but there is something there.

William Likely was a guy I was interested in until they put a tape measure on his back and he touched at 5071, but he can play. His height will keep him from being drafted, but he can run with a lot of WRs...might be a slot guy. Tedric Thompson isn't getting a lot of love, I like him a lot. I also like Nate Gerry as a $backer conversion. I thought Reyshawn Jenkins and John Johnson would be 5th or later, but they are now climbing draft boards. Jonathan Ford is a guy to watch. Fish Smithson of Kansas as well. I like Matt Milano of Boston College, just don't know what I would do with him. Joseph Jones of Northwestern is a guy to keep an eye on as is BJ Bello (Illinois State) and David Talley (Grand Valley State). I'd watch Sydney Omameh from GV State too. Josh Carraway is a nice edge guy with bend and speed around the corner. Stevie Tuikolovatu is a big, strong, stumpy NT. Isaac Rochell of Notre Dame is underrated. At WR, man, how much time do you have? Some rate Josh Reynolds as a 5th. That is a bargain. Love Ryan Switzer, Bug Howard, and Mack Hollins from UNC, all are considered late round guys. Stacy Coley of Miami, if he can stay healthy. Amba Etta-Tawo is a talented guy. Jehu Chesson of Michigan. Quincy Adeboyejo of Mississippi. Speedy Noil of TAMU. Jeremy Sprinkle would be much higher if he had not decided to alleviate Belk of some of its merchandise. Michael Roberts of Toledo looks like a big, lumbering TE, but he gets open and has excellent hands. Darrell Daniels of Washington is a move TE. Jonathan Dorsey of Alabama A&M is a taller, thinner WR in the mold of Evan Engram, but I think he has more potential to be an inline guy. At RB, two UNC guys in Elijah Hood (I think we are real interested in Hood and Mack Hollins) and TJ Logan, but Logan has trouble holding onto the football. I really like Tarik Cohen, one of the few small backs that doesn't go down when the OL farts. He is short as hell, 5'6", but is right at 180. That is ~2.7 pounds per inch of height, which means if he were 6', he would be close to 200 pounds. At lot of people might view him like Archer, but Archer was roughly 2.5 pounds per inch of height....that is exceptionally slight. And, Cohen is a beast in the slot. He looks like a true receiver. Joe Williams of Utah is a guy to watch. I like Boom Williams of Kentucky. At QB, Joshua Dobbs of Tennessee is a late round guy, I like him there. Seth Russell of Baylor as an UDFA, same with Sefo Liufau, Cooper Rush, and Mitch Leidner.

You can pull real talent at any pick in this draft.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Draft talk..fellas any thoughts on this article

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...oom-hybrid-safety-transform-steelers-defense/

 

[ark steel]

Hey Ark, don't want you to throw del under the bus, it was me who compared Takk's tape in some games to Jarvis'.

I don't want to belabor the opinion I have of the kid and I truly find his story heartwarming and wish him the very best...I just don't see him the same as most. That's it. I like a bunch of talented kids, some will never even make it in this league. I really liked Anthony Barr out of UCLA and he was rated as a top 10 pick @ Edge rusher. I was wrong. Barr doesn't even play OLB. He is now an SLB in the 4-3. Mayock had Barr, Shazier and Demarcus Lawrence ranked 2,3,4 behind Khalil Mack. Well, Shaz isn't playing outside either. Mack leads the class with 30 sacks to date with Barr at 9.5 after 3 years.

I think this draft will produce a better crop of Edge rushers than 2014 BUT we all have to remember, it's NOT likely any will be an immediate contributor in all reality. The draft "is like a box of chocolates..."

Just looked again, Del did say McKinley's tape looked like Jarvis Jones. Cant look at google docs from work to see if that has changed.

 

[TMC]

Draft talk..fellas any thoughts on this article

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...oom-hybrid-safety-transform-steelers-defense/

It is very similar to what I have been saying with the 3-3-5 as a base defense. In it, you would have Tuitt, Hargrave, and Heyward as your DL. You would have your two OLBs (Dupree, Harrison/Rookie), Shazier in the middle, your normal 4 DBs, and a heavy safety or $backer. This talks more about a dime defense, which would simply be removing a DL and adding another defensive back.

Pretty similar to what I think the Steelers are moving towards. The key is, do you draft a bigger $backer early or do you draft a slot corner early, you need both. Ideally, the pick would be a guy like Awuzie, who has the length to cover TEs and the speed/quickness to cover WRs like Edelman. But, there is only 1 Awuzie. For me, the top slot guy is Baker. The matchup on the TE would still be an issue, but there are less quality TEs running around than there are smaller slot WRs. And, I think you can find a FS later that can walk down on your TE. You won't find a slot CB that is a willing participant in the run game so easily. But, the general concept remains, you need a DB capable of handling that $backer/slot role to make that defense work, and we just don't have either. Good draft to get both if it breaks right though. I would love to see something crazy happen like Baker early, a rush OLB in the 2nd, and then land a taller coverage FS/CB in the 3rd. In fact, if our first four picks consisted of 3 DBs and an edge rusher, I'd be just fine with it as long as one could develop into the $backer role.

 

[TMC]

Just looked again, Del did say McKinley's tape looked like Jarvis Jones. Cant look at google docs from work to see if that has changed.

I don't think his film looked like Jarvis Jones. Jones rarely beat OL. McKinley does. He beats them with speed off the snap. He beats them with power. He walks guys back onto the QB. He has, basically, one or two moves he uses and they are unrefined. He is just fighting guys until he beats them. Someone will teach him how to play and when they do, they will have something. A lot of people like Watt, and I do too, but they are opposites. Watt is more refined. He understands what to do, soaks it up, works on his technique. His issues are, fully developing his physical abilities to withstand the changes in the NFL. That isn't Takk. He doesn't need to add weight or get stronger/faster, he just has to learn what to do with it.

 

[ark steel]

I don't think his film looked like Jarvis Jones. Jones rarely beat OL. McKinley does. He beats them with speed off the snap. He beats them with power. He walks guys back onto the QB. He has, basically, one or two moves he uses and they are unrefined. He is just fighting guys until he beats them. Someone will teach him how to play and when they do, they will have something. A lot of people like Watt, and I do too, but they are opposites. Watt is more refined. He understands what to do, soaks it up, works on his technique. His issues are, fully developing his physical abilities to withstand the changes in the NFL. That isn't Takk. He doesn't need to add weight or get stronger/faster, he just has to learn what to do with it.

Thanks. It is interesting, to me, to see how people here see things differently. Again, Del may have studied more and changed his opinion. Doesn't seem like Kesler has.

Similar to how the "experts" at nfl.com or other sports sites see various players going in such widely varied spots.

 

[TMC]

Thanks. It is interesting, to me, to see how people here see things differently. Again, Del may have studied more and changed his opinion. Doesn't seem like Kesler has.

Similar to how the "experts" at nfl.com or other sports sites see various players going in such widely varied spots.

It isn't just us though, different teams do the same thing. Some have guys valued very highly, others don't.

 

[ZACKB]

Tak reminds me of Bud Dupree a lot.

 

[TMC]

Tak reminds me of Bud Dupree a lot.

There are some similarities, both need coaching and technique work, but to me, the biggest difference is, Dupree was an absolute freak athlete. He was 270 pounds and his lower body explosion was unreal. He had a 42" vertical jump and his broad jump was 11'6". That is unreal. What Bud never did prior to the draft was bench. He had a torn pectoral muscle, so he never get under the bar. Takk isn't that explosive and he is 19 pounds lighter. Takk's VJ was only 33", good, not great. His broad jump was 10'2", which is pretty good. His bench was fine (24 reps). When you consider his arms are almost 35" long, that is pretty good. Good speed, similar COD numbers to Dupree. Dupree actually has shorter arms than Takk. So, some similarities, but the lower body exposion from Bud was vastly better but the strength cannot be compared.

And, I think Takk comes off on film as more tenacious. Bud looked like a deer in the headlights on film, whether it was lack of recognition or scheme (appears now it was scheme).

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

What player or players would would you be nevrous about being drafted by our division and playoff rivals?

Here's a few of mine

Browns - Garrett, Malik Hooker, Jamal Adams
Ravens - Mike Williams, Corey Davis, Godwin, Oj Howard, Njoku, - all would help jump ball Joe
Bengals - Corey Davis, Gareon Conley, Hooker, Adams

Pats - McCaffrey, Njoku, Curtis Samuel,

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

TMC thanks for your much needed input here. It's nice having you back. I think bud Dupree lights come on this year. With Heyward healthy a solid slot guy like baker or even a Peppers would fill the $backer spot well in the 3-3-5. But if a TaKK was their how could you pass him up to replace Harrison? I think this might be a year they move up with the comp picks we have if someone falls. Better to have a guy you really want over a extra pick.

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

What player or players would would you be nevrous about being drafted by our division and playoff rivals?

Here's a few of mine

Browns - Garrett, Malik Hooker, Jamal Adams
Ravens - Mike Williams, Corey Davis, Godwin, Oj Howard, Njoku, - all would help jump ball Joe
Bengals - Corey Davis, Gareon Conley, Hooker, Adams

Pats - McCaffrey, Njoku, Curtis Samuel,

Hooker a bum I hope a AFC north team drafts him and starts him.

 

[TMC]

What player or players would would you be nevrous about being drafted by our division and playoff rivals?

Here's a few of mine

Browns - Garrett, Malik Hooker, Jamal Adams
Ravens - Mike Williams, Corey Davis, Godwin, Oj Howard, Njoku, - all would help jump ball Joe
Bengals - Corey Davis, Gareon Conley, Hooker, Adams

Pats - McCaffrey, Njoku, Curtis Samuel,

I don't want Myles Garrett in our division for anyone. I'd rather not see Jamal Adams either. Corey Davis is a monster. I'd rather see Williams get drafted to the Ravens than Davis, but I don't want them to get Williams either. Any top rated DB would help them out a great deal as well. For the Bengals, I don't want them to get a RB early.

The one guy I think fits the Patriots to a T is Ryan Switzer. I'd hate it if they draft him. McCaffery would not be a picnic either, but thankfully they pissed away their early picks. I don't want to see Houston land a great QB early. I mean, they have to take a chance, but I'd rather see them swing and miss, because if they land a QB early, they are loaded.

I'd rather not see Zay Jones or Chris Godwin in our division.