Ahmaud Arbery Murder

[Steelworth]

From what I understand he's a thief. He wasn't stealing anything then IMHO. He was casing it. He was also caught with a gun at some sporting event at a school. This is no choir boy.

Does he have a criminal record? I heard the police were there even before he was shot and they determined he did nothing wrong. That Tim Pool in the video said he may have stole something and dropped it in the street but I didn't see a single thing laying in that street. And of course this is after the police showed up and apparently determined he did absolutely nothing wrong.

Now that aside, it is BS that everyone's saying he was just out for a jog. Now that we see more of what really happened, no he doesn't seem like a choir boy, but that really doesn't change one single ******* thing in this whole shitstorm IMO.

 

[IndySteel]

This happened 3 days ago and haven't heard 1 ******* thing about it on the news. Because white people are evil and all..https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...-their-80s-fatally-shot-in-veterans-cemetery/

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That's clearly self-defense.

 

[stevielee]

This doesn't fit the narrative. It won't be discussed.

Well then when they start covering stories like 80 plus years-old husband and wife being gunned down in veterans cemetary for no ******* reason then I'll start giving a **** about the Ahmaud Arbury's of the world. Till then **** 'em.

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[NCSteelerfan]

This happened 3 days ago and haven't heard 1 ******* thing about it on the news. Because white people are evil and all..https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...-their-80s-fatally-shot-in-veterans-cemetery/

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Difference is that the suspect in your article engaged in a shootout with police and was killed or took his own life. The one being discussed in this thread happened back in February and the two guys involved in the shooting are just now being arrested due to the video being released publicly. Also, when I looked this up via google there were quite a few news reports about this incident that were easily found.

Not sure why when these types of things happen that people on here need to try and start posting other items that don't compare due to the perps were either killed at the time or they were arrested, and apparently it got reported The father/son duo went out with guns to chase him down and created a situation where someone lost their life. Doesn't matter if he was a choir boy or not,.........they should've just called the cops and let them handle it verses their actions that led to the final outcome.

 

[Steelworth]

Does he have a criminal record? I heard the police were there even before he was shot and they determined he did nothing wrong. That Tim Pool in the video said he may have stole something and dropped it in the street but I didn't see a single thing laying in that street. And of course this is after the police showed up and apparently determined he did absolutely nothing wrong.

Now that aside, it is BS that everyone's saying he was just out for a jog. Now that we see more of what really happened, no he doesn't seem like a choir boy, but that really doesn't change one single ******* thing in this whole shitstorm IMO.

I want to make an edit to the bolded, trespassing on private property, I don't think that's doing absolutely nothing wrong. Unless since he didn't have any no trespassing signs, it's not a crime? I really have no idea about it so I shouldn't say one way or the other, and the more I think about it, the cops showed up prior to this all happening?

I don't know if I have any of these details right to be honest so I'll just STFU now.

 

[stevielee]

Difference is that the suspect in your article engaged in a shootout with police and was killed or took his own life. The one being discussed in this thread happened back in February and the two guys involved in the shooting are just now being arrested due to the video being released publicly. Also, when I looked this up via google there were quite a few news reports about this incident that were easily found.

Not sure why when these types of things happen that people on here need to try and start posting other items that don't compare due to the perps were either killed at the time or they were arrested, and apparently it got reported The father/son duo went out with guns to chase him down and created a situation where someone lost their life. Doesn't matter if he was a choir boy or not,.........they should've just called the cops and let them handle it verses their actions that led to the final outcome.

Difference is that the suspect in your article engaged in a shootout with police and was killed or took his own life. The one being discussed in this thread happened back in February and the two guys involved in the shooting are just now being arrested due to the video being released publicly. Also, when I looked this up via google there were quite a few news reports about this incident that were easily found.

Not sure why when these types of things happen that people on here need to try and start posting other items that don't compare due to the perps were either killed at the time or they were arrested, and apparently it got reported The father/son duo went out with guns to chase him down and created a situation where someone lost their life. Doesn't matter if he was a choir boy or not,.........they should've just called the cops and let them handle it verses their actions that led to the final outcome.

Oh so since the suspect in the article I posted was killed or took his own life that somehow makes his victims less important or less dead or something. Got it. Also, since the Ahmaud thing happened in February and he was just arrested now I guess any story were the suspect immediately faces justice is irrelevant. Aaannd You had to Google it to find anything about it. Not a ******* peep on the MSM news channels about it while in the meantime they've been busier than a one-legged man in an ***-kicking contest covering the Albury story

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[NCSteelerfan]

Oh so since the suspect in the article I posted was killed or took his own life that somehow makes his victims less important or less dead or something. Got it. Also, since the Ahmaud thing happened in February and he was just arrested now I guess any story were the suspect immediately faces justice is irrelevant. Aaannd You had to Google it to find anything about it. Not a ******* peep on the MSM news channels about it while in the meantime they've been busier than a one-legged man in an ***-kicking contest covering the Albury story

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Sigh......

I never stated that the victims in the story you posted were less important or that their deaths were irrelevant due to the perp meeting immediate justice. Obviously you don't get it. The point is that the perpetrator in that story was "handled" so to speak. There wasn't a delay in the perpetrator meeting justice. Since when does every murder in this country make it to national news? They don't, and the reason Ahmed's story made it.......over 2 months later.....was due to a video being released showing the actions of the two idiots who decided to take the law into their own hands and his family calling for justice. It is being investigated now, which it should have been more thoroughly investigated back when it happened.

The father was a former cop and worked as an investigator as well. Most of us regular folks would have ended up arrested at the time it happened. Why weren't they? Seems there was a lot of turning heads the other way on this one.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Nobody said he was a choir boy. But it’s not up to these two vigilantes to hunt him down and kill him. Call the police. Let them do their jobs. Novel concept, I know.

But if they are charging these guys with murder then they are saying that to an extent. Murder means you just went out planning to kill somebody. They are putting forth that these guys hunted him down for no reason. Now we see that there was a valid reason to confront him. It got out of hand and they probably should be charged with manslaughter or something along those lines. This info removes the "hate crime" angle that got this so much attention.

It’s sad that in all of these incidents we always get just the 1 sided info that pushes an agenda. Later we get the full picture and see it’s more complex. If you watch the full video, these guys did have reason to believe that this guy might be armed as there had been burglaries in the area and a gun was stolen.

These guys should have called the cops because they were not in danger themselves. They do deserve to be charged, but not with murder. Not with some kind of hate crime.

 

[Superman]

I agree that the guys should be charged with something. They killed a man, and not in self defense - unless you consider someone attempting to take away the shotgun you're pointing at them should be "self defense."

The new video shows the guy wandering into a house under construction. Again, who has not done that? The video does not show the guy taking/stealing anything.

His clothing suggests he was not out for a jog. Few people jog in canvas cargo shorts.

Still, all he did at that point was wander into a house under construction. No harm, no foul, unless there is undeniable proof he pocketed something. If he did do that, then Uncle Jessie and Luke should have called Roscoe and Enos to the scene - possibly followed the guy at a distance, but should not have interacted with him.

 

[stevielee]

Sigh......

I never stated that the victims in the story you posted were less important or that their deaths were irrelevant due to the perp meeting immediate justice. Obviously you don't get it. The point is that the perpetrator in that story was "handled" so to speak. There wasn't a delay in the perpetrator meeting justice. Since when does every murder in this country make it to national news? They don't, and the reason Ahmed's story made it.......over 2 months later.....was due to a video being released showing the actions of the two idiots who decided to take the law into their own hands and his family calling for justice. It is being investigated now, which it should have been more thoroughly investigated back when it happened.

The father was a former cop and worked as an investigator as well. Most of us regular folks would have ended up arrested at the time it happened. Why weren't they? Seems there was a lot of turning heads the other way on this one.

Seems to me that an elderly couple being gunned down in cold blood for apparently no reason while visiting a Veterans cemetary is just as newsworthy. It just doesn't fit the msm's agenda.

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[Sarge]

But if they are charging these guys with murder then they are saying that to an extent.

Wait. What? People only get charged with murder if they kill somebody that is considered a choir boy? Really? Perhaps I'm not following.

Murder means you just went out planning to kill somebody.

Nonsense. If you plan to kill someone, that is PREMEDITATED murder. Drunk drivers that get into accidents and kill someone get charged with murder. Pretty sure they weren't planning to kill somebody with their car. Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human with malice aforethought. So yeah, premeditated killings are murder, but it isn't required for the charge.

They are putting forth that these guys hunted him down for no reason. Now we see that there was a valid reason to confront him. It got out of hand and they probably should be charged with manslaughter or something along those lines. This info removes the "hate crime" angle that got this so much attention.

Reason to confront him maybe, not kill him. And unless they own the damn property, I think reason to confront him is a stretch. Again, call the damn police. Don't get on the phone, call your son, arm yourselves and get in a vehicle and go looking for him. It isn't your job, no matter what you did in your former life. Hate crime laws are another issue. I think they are stupid, but that is another discussion entirely.

It’s sad that in all of these incidents we always get just the 1 sided info that pushes an agenda. Later we get the full picture and see it’s more complex. If you watch the full video, these guys did have reason to believe that this guy might be armed as there had been burglaries in the area and a gun was stolen.

These guys should have called the cops because they were not in danger themselves. They do deserve to be charged, but not with murder. Not with some kind of hate crime.

Again, it doesn't matter if it is more complex or what they suspected. There is no need to arm yourself and go looking for the guy. None. It is vigilantism plain and simple. If they call the cops, the guy is alive, perhaps under arrest if he did commit crimes, and these two dipshits are not charged with murder. Their actions directly resulted in the confrontation that led to the man's death, and they killed him. They created the entire scenario. Now they can reap the whirlwind of their own racist stupidity.

 

[Booted]

The new video shows the guy wandering into a house under construction. Again, who has not done that? .

We did that all the time as kids. We didn't think much of it. Just looking around at the new construction in the neighborhood. Then we jumped on our bikes and off we went. Glad we didn't get killed over it.

 

[Vader]

We did that all the time as kids. We didn't think much of it. Just looking around at the new construction in the neighborhood. Then we jumped on our bikes and off we went. Glad we didn't get killed over it.

He wasn't a kid. He was seen in the area before where break ins had occurred. Go to a new construction today and you could be arrested for trespassing. He wasn't just a kid admiring the construction. He wasn't just out for a jog either. Again he carried a gun to a sporting event. He also started the altercation. He ran towards the guy with the gun and grabbed it. Why? All of these guys were wrong. The father and son should have called the police and just waited. Arbery should have called the police and just waited. Why go grab the gun that is pointed at you? He started the entire shooting process. The entire event is mind boggling dumb for all sides.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Wait. What? People only get charged with murder if they kill somebody that is considered a choir boy? Really? Perhaps I'm not following.




Nonsense. If you plan to kill someone, that is PREMEDITATED murder. Drunk drivers that get into accidents and kill someone get charged with murder. Pretty sure they weren't planning to kill somebody with their car. Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human with malice aforethought. So yeah, premeditated killings are murder, but it isn't required for the charge.




Reason to confront him maybe, not kill him. And unless they own the damn property, I think reason to confront him is a stretch. Again, call the damn police. Don't get on the phone, call your son, arm yourselves and get in a vehicle and go looking for him. It isn't your job, no matter what you did in your former life. Hate crime laws are another issue. I think they are stupid, but that is another discussion entirely.



Again, it doesn't matter if it is more complex or what they suspected. There is no need to arm yourself and go looking for the guy. None. It is vigilantism plain and simple. If they call the cops, the guy is alive, perhaps under arrest if he did commit crimes, and these two dipshits are not charged with murder. Their actions directly resulted in the confrontation that led to the man's death, and they killed him. They created the entire scenario. Now they can reap the whirlwind of their own racist stupidity.

I believe they are being pushed to charge murder 1, the premeditated sort. That’s what I’m saying. Manslaughter is often what DUI gets and that is what I stated they should be charged with. That or some sort of negligent homicide, but not the premeditated murder that many are advocating.

 

[Steelworth]

I believe they are being pushed to charge murder 1, the premeditated sort. That’s what I’m saying. Manslaughter is often what DUI gets and that is what I stated they should be charged with. That or some sort of negligent homicide, but not the premeditated murder that many are advocating.

Where did you hear that? I'm hearing that it's second degree murder they're looking to charge them on.

And DUIs that result in death can absolutely get a second degree murder conviction, at least in California.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I could be wrong but I thought most of the protesters wanted a charge of murder 1.

 

[Sarge]

They’ll never get murder 1. They would have to prove the whole thing was planned out. I can’t get there with what I know.

 

[Steeltime]

They’ll never get murder 1. They would have to prove the whole thing was planned out. I can’t get there with what I know.

Murder is defined as homicide with malice. Homicide is the killing of one human being by another. Malice can be found any number of ways, including statements, threats, involvement in an inherently dangerous felony, or here, something called the "deadly weapons doctrine." The deadly weapons doctrine provides that one using a dangerous, deadly weapon is conclusively presumed to know the highly dangerous characteristics of the device and is assigned malice for using the weapon.

First degree murder constitutes a murder with premeditated and deliberate intent to kill. DA's tell juries that the premeditation can be measured in minutes, even seconds, so long as the person made a DECISION to engage in the action that resulted in the homicide.

Sounds great in theory as to premeditation but in reality, juries are not going to find premeditation with 5 seconds, or even 10 seconds, of deliberation. Prosecutors charge 1st degree if they can since the allegation will also involve "lesser included offenses," such as second degree murder and manslaughter.

Second degree is a murder without premeditation. Manslaughter is a homicide without malice, but with inherently dangerous violations of the law - driving drunk is the best example - that make the chance of death vastly too high to be acceptable behavior. Just like we have the felony-murder rule for identified inherently dangerous felonies (rape, arson, robbery, burglary, kidnapping), we also have the "misdemeanor-manslaughter" rule for violations of law that involve a danger of harm, but where the likelihood of killing somebody is lower than the inherently dangerous felonies. Examples include the aforementioned drunk driving, and can include negligent acts that carry a considerable risk of harm such as installing electrical in a home where you have no license, background or skill to do so and a resident gets electrocuted as a result.

In this instance, the defendants are likely to get charged with 1st degree murder and very likely to get convicted of 2nd degree due to the seeming lack of premeditated intent to kill.

 

[Steeler Pride]

 

[jitter77]

This is pretty good, but its not all facts and he left out a lof of stuff. He is obviously inferring he was there to steal stuff which seems like a good possibility, but several people say that they walk into construction sites to look around. Also I think it would be nearly impossible to get a felony conviction just for walking into an abandon house even if it is technically trespassing. Does the Arbery have any previous arrests? Why is the one guy filming all this? Why was none of this stuff released previously? Do the shooters have any history of racisim? The media is definitely one sided on this, but I think a lot of info still needs to come out.

 

[Steelworth]

The media is definitely one sided on this, but I think a lot of info still needs to come out.

Absolutely. Much more info needs to come out. This is the classic case of taking emotions and parts of a story, and coming to conclusions about it based on how we're typically programmed/engineered to think (and nobody's immune from it, we all do it). When I first saw the video that Sarge posted I was shocked and appalled. And then more info comes out because there's always more to a story.

The homeowner of the unoccupied dwelling specifically said that nothing was ever stolen/removed. And also 911 was called, two times to my knowledge, and so I assume a police officer was dispatched to the scene, so did they determine this man did nothing wrong? Did they talk with the homeowner? And was there no suspicion in Arbery's own mind that he was being tracked? And why would he run directly towards a truck that has two men (one who can be seen in the bed of the truck) armed with guns in it? Could he not see the guns? Does he wear glasses that he didn't have on? Or was he just incredibly careless? So many questions.

According to the video and that former police officer, Georgia has gun laws and citizens arrest statutes that make this not so cut and dry as the media would love to have us believe. It is pretty suspicious when a man wearing khaki cargo shorts is running down the middle of a street after being surveilled entering an unoccupied dwelling (away from his own neighborhood apparently) and having the police called on them, but the ending incident (to my own eyes) is at least negligent homicide. Just my own 2¢.

 

[jitter77]

I do think the father / son should have let the police handle it. Trail the guy from a distance. The whole thing with the other guy following them and recording seems odd to me. Then the whole handling of the case from the get go was bungled either due to incompetence or purposefully. There is a big mess to sort through for sure.

 

[deljzc]

It's odd that the narrative Arbery was just "jogging" has been upheld and promoted by the press (even now) when there appears to be no basis of fact in that at all. No corroborating witnesses. No video. Just what his mom says he was doing.

The press is going to get caught on that issue if they don't stop it soon and back away from the idea Arbery was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There appears to be fairly compelling video evidence that he entered a residence under construction that wasn't his, that he looked around for 3 minutes and that he ran away once confronted (not by the killers, this was earlier).

I certainly agree what was in the hearts of those white men was not good. They certainly went above and beyond what was necessary.

I think this will be very interesting how this plays out. After hearing more about the case and Georgia law, I think the only thing that will stick is manslaughter. If the DA goes all-or-nothing in on second degree murder they could very easily come away with a not guilty verdict and a race riot on their hands (or at least a very bad situation of marches and destruction of property).

 

[Yinzerlyn]

The DA should take a lesson from the Florida DA ( who totally overreached with the Trayvon Martin charge to quell violence) and not go with Murder 1. Yeah those white fucksticks are guilty as hell, but murder 1 might be hard to convict. And the civil unrest that would happen after a not guilty verdict on a murder one charge would be pretty devastating to the already ****** economy down in S Ga.

 

[jitter77]

The guy that filmed the incident and his attorney was on cnn last night. what a joke that was. Chris Cuomo simply asked him why he was filming the incident, why he didn't call 911 etc etc... The attorney wouldn't let him speak at all basically