Ahmaud Arbery Murder

[Steelworth]

Elftard's self-described attributes (and you definitely hit a nerve with her about her Assburger):

No doubt. And there's no shame in that and it also makes perfect sense why he misses sarcasm/humor.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Can't see anything sticking other than manslaughter, 2nd degree maybe the charge and the jury given the lesser option.

No way these guys go free, but why in the hell would Aubery charge McMichael?

 

[thesteelcity]

I only watched part of the video of the killing and saw the "trespass" video, so I'm waiting for all the info to be released on this case before making a judgement, but it's pretty clear those two idiots will be going away for awhile. I will say, if two hillbillies approached me in the middle of the street with guns drawn, I would fight them off, too. There is no telling if they are trigger happy, wanna-be Johnny-Q-Law officers or what their true intensions are. Citizens arrest seems something out of a Death Wish movie and would make me laugh at them. This is a very bad look for everyone involved and whom had knowledge of it to let three months go by. WTF?



oh, btw, did we get the final results from the investigation from Las Vegas massacre? Not to hijack this thread, but I imagine it's fully under the rug now?

 

[Vader]

I only watched part of the video of the killing and saw the "trespass" video, so I'm waiting for all the info to be released on this case before making a judgement, but it's pretty clear those two idiots will be going away for awhile. I will say, if two hillbillies approached me in the middle of the street with guns drawn, I would fight them off, too. There is no telling if they are trigger happy, wanna-be Johnny-Q-Law officers or what their true intensions are. Citizens arrest seems something out of a Death Wish movie and would make me laugh at them. This is a very bad look for everyone involved and whom had knowledge of it to let three months go by. WTF?

You're going to fight off two guys carrying guns when you are unarmed? You're just asking to get shot. He should have just stood there and called the cops. He was shot because he ran around the truck, grabbed the gun and tried to pull it out of the guys hands. Just the simple fact that pulling on a gun that is aimed at you has the possibility of pulling the trigger is insane on it's face. There is so much stupid in this case my mind struggles to handle all the stupidity.

 

[thesteelcity]

You're going to fight off two guys carrying guns when you are unarmed? You're just asking to get shot. He should have just stood there and called the cops. He was shot because he ran around the truck, grabbed the gun and tried to pull it out of the guys hands. Just the simple fact that pulling on a gun that is aimed at you has the possibility of pulling the trigger is insane on it's face. There is so much stupid in this case my mind struggles to handle all the stupidity.

It looks like he was trying get away from him and tried to get the gun away from him. They are going to claim self defense because they were fearful of their life, which is bullshit because guns were drawn on victim. What did they expect to happen?

 

[Vader]

It looks like he was trying get away from him and tried to get the gun away from him. They are going to claim self defense because they were fearful of their life, which is bullshit because guns were drawn on victim. What did they expect to happen?

They probably thought that the guy would stop and the police would show up since they called them. Most sane people would not try to fight two armed men when they are pointing guns directly at them. That's why they tell gas station attendants to just give up the money. They weren't trying to kill the guy. They were doing some half *** arrest. Just stay calm and call the police.

 

[Sarge]

Turns out they chased the guy for several minutes, and the guy doing the video was part of the "posse." Maybe if he hadn't run, he'd still be alive. Amiright?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ahmaud-arbery-video-chased-minutes-father-son-shot-lawyer

 

[Steelworth]

Turns out they chased the guy for several minutes, and the guy doing the video was part of the "posse." Maybe if he hadn't run, he'd still be alive. Amiright?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ahmaud-arbery-video-chased-minutes-father-son-shot-lawyer

Chased him for several minutes? Where the hell were the cops (because 2 calls to 911 at the time keep coming up)? And like you originally called it, hunted him down like a dog.

 

[Vader]

Chased him for several minutes? Where the hell were the cops (because 2 calls to 911 at the time keep coming up)? And like you originally called it, hunted him down like a dog.

When seconds count the police are only minutes away....

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Now it seems the police actually told the homeowner to contact this former cop if he saw anybody on his property. As more info comes out we see that this is very complicated

 

[Steeltime]

Now it seems the police actually told the homeowner to contact this former cop if he saw anybody on his property. As more info comes out we see that this is very complicated.

Interested to see if that turns out to be true. If so - meaning if in fact the police told the homeowner to contact the guy for help, meaning almost certainly the police told the former cop to provide the requested assistance - then the two would have had a reason to be there, acting as pseudo-cops. They were told to do just that.

Goes a long way towards ameliorating a claim they acted out of illegal motivation. Without such motive, looking at 2nd degree at worst, more likely manslaughter.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Interested to see if that turns out to be true. If so - meaning if in fact the police told the homeowner to contact the guy for help, meaning almost certainly the police told the former cop to provide the requested assistance - then the two would have had a reason to be there, acting as pseudo-cops. They were told to do just that.

Goes a long way towards ameliorating a claim they acted out of illegal motivation. Without such motive, looking at 2nd degree at worst, more likely manslaughter.

it would also justify them being armed. There were reports of burglaries in the area and a handgun was stolen at one of them, so if they thought they were chasing the suspect in those burglaries, then they would be considering him likely armed and dangerous.

It's just frustrating that the media is so quick to push half a story. The half they like of course. It's sad that my my first instinct on this was that these guys may have had some justification, not because of anything in the video, but that i know how the media operates and hides information that doesn't fit their agenda.

It's like Trayvon all over again. They put out half a story, fanned the flames, then when facts came out that showed the initial story was false, people didn't want to hear it and declared it an injustice.

That's what will likely happen here. These guys will probably get charged with a much lesser charge and may end up getting off completely. There could be even more evidence we haven't seen yet. There's no way this ends well.

 

[Sarge]

Now it seems the police actually told the homeowner to contact this former cop if he saw anybody on his property. As more info comes out we see that this is very complicated

If the police abdicated their responsibility to a retired officer, they need to be tried as well. You don't abdicate your responsibility to a retired officer or anyone else. That makes this worse in my opinion. Whoever made that decision should be fired at the very least, possibly put in prison. That is criminal negligence of the highest order.

 

[jitter77]

Supposedly the guy filming passed all kinds of lie detector questions. Which is kinda surprising

 

[Steeltime]

If the police abdicated their responsibility to a retired officer, they need to be tried as well. You don't abdicate your responsibility to a retired officer or anyone else. That makes this worse in my opinion. Whoever made that decision should be fired at the very least, possibly put in prison. That is criminal negligence of the highest order.

Uhh, no, Captain Overstatement. If the police told the property owner to have a neighbor keep an eye on the place, that is not even negligence, let alone criminal negligence.

I did not surmise that the police told the property owner and the citizens to "arrest" the guy, just provide assistance. That assistance is in the form of monitoring and reporting. They apparently did the first half of that, and as far as we can tell, also reported the guy to the cops.

Doubt the police told them to confront the guy and try to detain him. If your view is correct, then every ******* guy on neighborhood watch should be in jail and every police officer ever affiliated with neighborhood watch in the cell next to them.

Might be able to do that, now that we are emptying the jails of burglars, robbers and rapists. Plenty of room to imprison those neighborhood watch psychos.

 

[Sarge]

Uhh, no, Captain Overstatement. If the police told the property owner to have a neighbor keep an eye on the place, that is not even negligence, let alone criminal negligence.

I did not surmise that the police told the property owner and the citizens to "arrest" the guy, just provide assistance. That assistance is in the form of monitoring and reporting. They apparently did the first half of that, and as far as we can tell, also reported the guy to the cops.

Doubt the police told them to confront the guy and try to detain him. If your view is correct, then every ******* guy on neighborhood watch should be in jail and every police officer ever affiliated with neighborhood watch in the cell next to them.

Might be able to do that, now that we are emptying the jails of burglars, robbers and rapists. Plenty of room to imprison those neighborhood watch psychos.

Yes, keep an eye on the place. They obviously did more than that, and very likely thought they were within their rights to do that. Can't imagine what might have given them that idea.

And this is what you said.

If so - meaning if in fact the police told the homeowner to contact the guy for help, meaning almost certainly the police told the former cop to provide the requested assistance - then the two would have had a reason to be there, acting as pseudo-cops.

That's a far cry from being a neighborhood watch participant. Any neighborhood watch that I am aware of doesn't require you to arm yourself and chase down criminals. In fact, they specifically advise against such things. If you see something, you call the police. That's it. You don't arm yourself, hunt the guy down and then end up killing him. Police don't get to delegate their responsibility to "pseudo cops."

So which is it? Do they monitor and report, or do they have a reason to be there acting as pseudo cops (whatever that is)? Or is monitoring and reporting acting as a pseudo cop? What the hell is a pseudo cop?

 

[NCSteelerfan]

Uhh, no, Captain Overstatement. If the police told the property owner to have a neighbor keep an eye on the place, that is not even negligence, let alone criminal negligence.

I did not surmise that the police told the property owner and the citizens to "arrest" the guy, just provide assistance. That assistance is in the form of monitoring and reporting. They apparently did the first half of that, and as far as we can tell, also reported the guy to the cops.

Doubt the police told them to confront the guy and try to detain him. If your view is correct, then every ******* guy on neighborhood watch should be in jail and every police officer ever affiliated with neighborhood watch in the cell next to them.

Might be able to do that, now that we are emptying the jails of burglars, robbers and rapists. Plenty of room to imprison those neighborhood watch psychos.

Except it was the cops telling the homeowner if he saw something to contact McMichaels. Not the police asking them to have a neighbor (McMichaels) keep an eye on the place. Why would they ask the homeowner to contact someone else other than the police. Even if the fat **** was a retired cop.

 

[Steeltime]

Except it was the cops telling the homeowner if he saw something to contact McMichaels. Not the police asking them to have a neighbor (McMichaels) keep an eye on the place. Why would they ask the homeowner to contact someone else other than the police. Even if the fat **** was a retired cop.

Because the property owner did not live near there, the other guy did. So the guy nearby can monitor, call, etc.

 

[Steeltime]

Yes, keep an eye on the place. They obviously did more than that, and very likely thought they were within their rights to do that. Can't imagine what might have given them that idea.

First off, the issue the two guys have is following the guy and the later confrontation. I think I may have said that the requests from the neighbor/police go to reason for being there, i.e., motive and degree of criminal wrongdoing, not that the request (if made, we don't know) absolves them from potential liability.

Second, any time a case becomes a public relations matter, the facts get destroyed in a narrative. I simply pointed out that an actual request from law enforcement, if made, would go a long way towards ameliorating premeditated intent to harm. Yep, I actually wrote that.

As to "what gave them that idea," you don't have a clue. You are completely ignorant of the facts here. So try not to speculate and take your guesswork as meaning anything.

As I did when I wrote, "If that turns out to be true," since I don't know what happened, when, why, the motives, etc. Neither do you.

That's a far cry from being a neighborhood watch participant. Any neighborhood watch that I am aware of doesn't require you to arm yourself and chase down criminals. In fact, they specifically advise against such things. If you see something, you call the police. That's it. You don't arm yourself, hunt the guy down and then end up killing him. Police don't get to delegate their responsibility to "pseudo cops."

Do you know what "pseudo" means? It means "fake" or "sham." Real cops have guns, chase suspects, make arrests. Being a "pseudo" cop does NOT mean driving in a patrol car with lights, a gun, pulling over suspects, reading them their rights, arresting them, etc.

That would be a real cop. Get it?

Further, I seem to not recall saying that chasing after the guy was okey-*******-dokey. Maybe a Biden moment. Let me check ... hmm, never said said. Discussed DEGREE OF CULPABILITY.

Jeez, from your comments it seems the state should save a lot of money and have Judge Sarge issue a verdict.

So which is it? Do they monitor and report, or do they have a reason to be there acting as pseudo cops (whatever that is)? Or is monitoring and reporting acting as a pseudo cop? What the hell is a pseudo cop?

Oh, my, GOD, he used the "which is it" question on me!!! Ahhhhhh ....

Again, a fake cop does not carry a gun, chase a suspect, arrest a guy, get into an altercation over the arrest and then shoot the suspect. That is what a real cop does.

Pseudo
adjective
pseu·​do | \ ˈsü-(ˌ)dō

Definition of pseudo: being apparently rather than actually as stated; sham, spurious

So which is it, are you unclear on the word "pseudo" or just knowingly making up a non-existent conflict?

 

[steeltruckin]

In my opinion from what i have seen, they should have never followed him and gotten out of their truck. Also i think Arbery had some mental issues. Guy is seen in 2 different videos with cops, wearing shorts and a winter coat, with no shirt on in summertime Georgia.
So to corner in a mentally unstable man like that. Nothing good was coming out of that situation.

 

[IndySteel]

In my opinion from what i have seen, they should have never followed him and gotten out of their truck. Also i think Arbery had some mental issues. Guy is seen in 2 different videos with cops, wearing shorts and a winter coat, with no shirt on in summertime Georgia.
So to corner in a mentally unstable man like that. Nothing good was coming out of that situation.

Yeah, who charges someone that is holding a gun? He was no choir boy. Casing houses and doing drugs in a park known for drugs and criminal activity. He probably was involved in the prior break ins too. Otherwise, why case houses? This is eerily similar to Trayngel. Things aren't always what they seem when the media gets hysterical about something.

 

[Superman]

I dont know that you can call it "casing a joint" since the place was under construction - and from the video, there's nothing there to be taken other than some lumber and nails. Maybe a saw or some cords.

Though the guy did trespass by walking into the house. That's a broken law. But - not one that he should have lost his life for.

In the more recent video, when he was sitting in his car and the cop questioned him, the guy seriously flipped out after the camera was restarted. You could just feel the tension. Tells me that this guy did have some issues - either with authority or mental or both. I know we've all seen people just flip out over the smallest issue, and this video shows Arbery doing just that. Though to be fair, we do not know the timeframe from when the video stopped to when it started again (the first time).

Then the second cop trying to tase him? **** me. this is why people don't like cops. dude does have a stressful job, but going to tase this guy for really nothing at all instead of trying to de-escalate the situation is more than unprofessional, IMO. Arbery was responding to and complying with the cops' directives, even if he was pissed off.

this newest video does nothing to change my opinion of the entire situation.

Arbery was at fault for going after the guy pointing a shotgun at him, but that was the climax of him being chased after breaking a trespassing law.

 

[NCSteelerfan]

Yeah, who charges someone that is holding a gun? He was no choir boy. Casing houses and doing drugs in a park known for drugs and criminal activity. He probably was involved in the prior break ins too. Otherwise, why case houses? This is eerily similar to Trayngel. Things aren't always what they seem when the media gets hysterical about something.

The owner of the property also had video showing kids playing on the property, and others entering the property/house being built at different times. There was one of a white couple entering at night. I suppose all of those people were "casing" the house as well. They could have possibly been involved in the prior break ins as well.....woah.

 

[Steeler Pride]

I dont know that you can call it "casing a joint" since the place was under construction - and from the video, there's nothing there to be taken other than some lumber and nails. Maybe a saw or some cords.

Copper...the price right now is unreal. I have projects that have had every copper lineset stolen overnight after the AC units and Furnaces were set. In addition, a project in Cleveland (yes, insert funny joke here), one of the subs had his big jobsite tool boxes stolen overnight, total loss of over $9,000 in power tools and specialty tools. Pawn shops are all too happy to sell the stolen **** too, and the police can do very little to stop it.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

The owner of the property also had video showing kids playing on the property, and others entering the property/house being built at different times. There was one of a white couple entering at night. I suppose all of those people were "casing" the house as well. They could have possibly been involved in the prior break ins as well.....woah.

is walking through construction sites a thing in the south? I’ve never heard of that until this case where apparently people in the south walk through construction sites like it’s a nature trail. I don’t get it.