Allen Robinson or Jordan Matthews

[Superman]

I don't know what 2 minute clip you saw on youtube that fueled your wrong conclusions. Robinson is a hand catcher outside the numbers and a body catcher in traffic, like you're supposed to be.

Body catching is sometimes warranted. Yes, it's bad if that is all you can do, but if you try to hand catch with a guy in close coverage, it's getting knocked away. There are situations when you are supposed to body catch, like in traffic or going for a low ball. Robinson is a hand catcher who can high point a ball.

I have no idea where you are getting Robinson doesn't get off the line. That's what he is best at. Aside from my eyes that have watched him get off the line quickly for 2 years, the draft reports i've seen have noted he's good at getting off the line with his quickness and getting separation with good route running.

Most college WR do struggle to get off the press of NFL CBs because NFL CBs are so much better, but Robinson is better at it than most so if you list it as a weakness for him then you have to think most other WRs in this draft will never get off the line ever

Mike Evans didn't like the press coverage he got vs Duke. He got penalized for taking a swing at Cockrell who was getting in his head.

You don't like his top end speed, that's fine. But this other stuff you're saying about him is way off. Keenan Allen ran a 4.7 last year. He had a damn good year because he's a great route runner with quickness. Jerry Rice also ran a slow 40.

Route running and quickness are more important than 40 time. Name the greatest WRs of all time and it's not a track team.

You may have well just written Robinson played in the Big Ten and you think everybody in the big ten sucks.

I'm normally not that big on BIG 10 WRs. Usually the BIG 10 WRs lack speed or size.
However, I am hopeful we get Allen Robinson. In the 2nd.

He's a big WR at 6-3. He's got size, being in the 210 range. I've seen him touted as one of the top 3 WRs in the draft. Of course, Watkins and Evans are the hot commodity that everyone has a hard-on for. Though I'll take Robinson... gladly ... in the 2nd.

I, too, wonder where it comes from that Robinson has trouble catching the ball. Every report I've seen online shows that is one of his strong points. Though, I will readily admit that I do not consult with NFL scouts on a regular basis, nor do I spend hours at a time reviewing each and every player in the draft.

Some of the reports I've read:

nfldraftgeek.com/allenrobinson_scoutingreport.html

Pros

Exceptionally smooth athlete; sinks his hips and flows in and out of his breaks with ease
Creates separation with his route running. Runs an NFL level route tree
High points the ball exceptionally well; can elevate over defensive backs to win jump balls
Great hands; snatches the ball out of the air away from his body
Tremendous body control and ability to adjust to poorly adjusted throws
Outstanding production despite being Penn State's only receiving threat. All-Big Ten First team in back to back seasons
Quicker than he is fast; solid burst in and out of cuts
Great vision in the open field
Works back towards his quarterback and knows how to find open space
Polished and NFL ready

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=96149&draftyear=2015&genpos=WR

04/29/14 - 2014 NFL Draft Wide Receiver: *Allen Robinson, Penn State, 6-3, 220, 4.60...Fluid athlete for his size with room to get stronger. Deceptive acceleration with sharp cuts to be a dangerous catch-and-go pass catcher. Physical ball-carrier with balance and body strength to shake off defenders and pick up chunks of yards after contact. Has shown return ability. Reset his own school mark in 2012 with 97 catches for 1,432 yards. His combined 174 receptions and 2,445 receiving yards the past two years both rank No. 3 in Big Ten history for consecutive seasons.

Frankly: If there is such a thing as a blue-collar receiver, Robinson is that guy. He knows the whole pro-style pass route tree from experience in Penn State's offense and although he lacks the speed most teams want, he is a big man with enough explosion to go 39 inches in the vertical jump. - Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange

http://blogs.nfl.com/2014/04/08/allen-robinson-of-penn-state-among-top-receivers-in-draft/

Representatives from 29 NFL teams — including Philadelphia Eagles head coach Chip Kelly and Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin — were present for Penn State’s pro day on Tuesday, when a workout was held indoors on FieldTurf.

Allen Robinson, WR (6-foot 7/8, 207) — Robinson ran the 40-yard dash in 4.48 and 4.50 seconds (improving on the 4.60 40 from the NFL Scouting Combine). He had a 42-inch vertical jump and 10-foot-11 broad jump. He also did the three-cone drill in 6.54 seconds. Robinson had a great pro-day workout. He looked very good running routes. Robinson’s performance really helped his draft stock a lot. It will push him into a crowded group of talented wide receivers in the 2014 NFL Draft class; not the upper echelon of prospects (a group that would include the likes of Sammy Watkins of Clemson and Mike Evans of Texas A&M), but the next tier of talent.

ranked as 3rd best WR in the draft
http://optimumscouting.com/rankings/static-rankings/wide-receiver-rankings-html.html

even coming out of high school, his hands were said to be a strong point. His negative was speed, or lack of. It seems to me that he worked on what he does best to make that better. Personally, I believe he'd be a great fit for us in the 2nd round.
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=4970110

 

[Idioteque]

This is where watching a few videos yourself comes into play. Some cut-n-paste:

Focus will run hot/cold at times and needs to be more reliable finishing with his hands - bad habit of making unnecessary body catches.

Traps throws against his body and double-catches some. Tends to cradle throws or go down to the ground. Swings the ball loosely as a runner.

I calculated Allen Robinson’s catch percentage to be at a little over 85% which needs work

He is a body catcher and while that isn't always a bad thing it limits his catch radius. He will also lose concentration on the ball in flight focusing more on getting yards after the catch. This leads to drops of some easy passes.

Negatives:

-Body catcher
-Not a good jump ball receiver
-Can’t make catches in traffic

 

[deljzc]

Robinson is one of the youngest prospects in this draft (born 8-24-93). He is a work in progress. He's not ready yet and will make a LOT of boom/bust plays.

To me, that falls of what type of coach he's dealing with. If he gets into someone's doghouse, his career could just fizzle out. If the mistakes outnumber the good, some coaches might bury him, unwilling to live with or realize the guy is only 20 years old and shouldn't be treated any different than the 25 year old men that he's used to coaching.

Which guy is Tomlin? Sometimes I think he a rigid hard *** (despite his "player friendly" reputation). We've seen guys get buried on the depth chart. We've seen guys make too many mistakes and just disappear.

I worry about Robinson with this coaching staff. I worry our expectation to win might conflict with Robinson's need to get reps, practice time and games.

 

[Superman]

No, ma'am, Idioteque. I have not watched the tapes you have. You need to return them so EdReed can drop them at my place.

 

[Idioteque]

No, ma'am, Idioteque. I have not watched the tapes you have. You need to return them so EdReed can drop them at my place.

www.youtube.com

www.draftbreakdown.com

That took forever

 

[Superman]

www.youtube.com

www.draftbreakdown.com

That took forever

dude, whatever. I simply stated my opinion and showed the links that I used to help form it. My apologies for not getting my opinion approved by the SN Elite beforehand.

 

[Idioteque]

dude, whatever. I simply stated my opinion and showed the links that I used to help form it. My apologies for not getting my opinion approved by the SN Elite beforehand.

You admit your opinion isn't based on actually watching football. That's fine, but you rip me constantly (on two different boards) for actually watching football to form mine. Don't act like a sensitive little flower in the midst of bashing indiscriminately.

I don't participate in the hockey threads for a reason.

 

[Superman]

You admit your opinion isn't based on actually watching football. That's fine, but you rip me constantly (on two different boards) for actually watching football to form mine.

I don't participate in the hockey threads for a reason.

you really are a gooddamn idiot, arent you?
two boards? *****, please.

I apologized for not spending the requisite 35+ hours of watching each and every potential draft prospect in this draft and forming corresponding spreadsheets complete with color-coded tabs to make browsing for specs easier. Please, forgive me, idiot. It means so much to my self-esteem.

 

[Idioteque]

two boards? *****, please.

Yes, two boards. This one for about ten years. And I'm in your sig. And I get brought up off-topic. It's mind-numbing, the amount of space I've been assigned in your head.

I apologized for not spending the requisite 35+ hours of watching each and every potential draft prospect in this draft and forming corresponding spreadsheets complete with color-coded tabs to make browsing for specs easier. Please, forgive me, idiot. It means so much to my self-esteem.

Wow. What a pissy little drama queen. Nobody expects you to do any ******* film study - now follow me here - unless you're going to troll on the opinions of others. At which point, your ignorant cut-and-paste crap might get called out.

 

[Steel Ballin]

So do you guys like Robinson or Matthews or neither in round 2?lol

 

[Superman]

Yes, two boards. This one for about ten years. And I'm in your sig. And I get brought up off-topic. It's mind-numbing, the amount of space I've been assigned in your head.



Wow. What a pissy little drama queen. Nobody expects you to do any ******* film study - now follow me here - unless you're going to troll on the opinions of others. At which point, your ignorant cut-and-paste crap might get called out.

my my my
is your keyboard drenched in tears? I'd apologize if I meant it, or if I didn't mean to offend you.

10+ years I've dogged you on this board? *****, again, please. You post in 99.6% of all threads on this board then want to whine and pee your pampers when someone has a different opinion.

My sig was made just for you. today. so you'd feel important. you're a special breed of chalk eater.

Now, back to the topic of this thread.

I posted my opinion on Allen Robinson. I'd take him in the 2nd since he seems to fit our offense. No need to bite your monitor just because I disagree.

 

[ark steel]

my my my
is your keyboard drenched in tears? I'd apologize if I meant it, or if I didn't mean to offend you.

10+ years I've dogged you on this board? *****, again, please. You post in 99.6% of all threads on this board then want to whine and pee your pampers when someone has a different opinion.

My sig was made just for you. today. so you'd feel important. you're a special breed of chalk eater.

Now, back to the topic of this thread.

I posted my opinion on Allen Robinson. I'd take him in the 2nd since he seems to fit our offense. No need to bite your monitor just because I disagree.

Bow did *I* get dragged into this? Although, it probably is my fault.

 

[ark steel]

So do you guys like Robinson or Matthews or neither in round 2?lol

I'm hoping a good DL is still in the board in the second. If I had to take. WR in the 2nd, I'd take Matthew s over Robinson.

 

[ark steel]

I should point out that you can watch hours and hours of game video and be wrong. You can watch zero hours of video and be wrong.

The proof of the first is the many, many draft picks that fail. The teams that took them didn't do by watching a couple of YouTube videos.

The proof of the second is, well, Supe.

All of us are shitflingers who make money doing something other than scouting football players. Doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on players, unless ,for some ridiculous reason you disagree with me. That would just be dumb.

 

[Idioteque]

I should point out that you can watch hours and hours of game video and be wrong. You can watch zero hours of video and be wrong.

The proof of the first is the many, many draft picks that fail. The teams that took them didn't do by watching a couple of YouTube videos.

The proof of the second is, well, Supe.

All of us are shitflingers who make money doing something other than scouting football players. Doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on players, unless ,for some ridiculous reason you disagree with me. That would just be dumb.

Again, I'll state my agreement with this statement, with the condition that the uneducated don't devote their free time to trolling and ****-talking. If they do, they're fair game to be called out on their admitted lack of knowledge. I'm sure you, and anyone reasonable, would agree with that.

 

[TMC]

So do you guys like Robinson or Matthews or neither in round 2?lol

It would depend on who is there. My 2nd round WR wishlist starts with Martavis Bryant with Donte Moncrief second. After that, I guess it would be Cody Latimer, Jordan Matthews, DeVante Adams, Allen Robinson, and Kelvin Benjamin.

I think if you are wanting an edge receiver with some size, might as well swing for the fences and a get a guy with speed.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Been saying for awhile now that Nix should be in play for us. Cant be ruled out. This team has to get better on first down..he will help in that area. This team dominates when it getsthe offense in predictable situations. Stopping the run is first priority.

 

[TMC]

Let me also add that the distance between Bryant and Moncrief is so razor thin. Both have great size. Both have good straight line speed. Both have iffy hands. Bryant had a lot of drops early and many were because he turned to run and just flat out did not watch it in. Moncrief tends to fight the ball a little, double catches some, and lets them get into his body. I think Bryant has a little edge there. Bryant has some immaturity in his college career but I believe he turned a corner. Moncrief has no character issues I can find. So, that edge goes to Moncrief. I think Bryant is a little more fluid of an athlete, a little better in and out of his breaks. But, if you want speed and size, I think those two should be your front runners. I Latimer as well, did before he got all the hype. Big WR, muscled up, runs well, athletic, good hands. Adams has a monster catch radius, not quite as fast, but could be a very good 3rd down/chain moving type.

 

[Idioteque]

So do you guys like Robinson or Matthews or neither in round 2?lol

They're both down my wishlist. I wouldn't touch either before the 3rd, where they'll both be out of play for us. Much better options in the 2nd: Latimer, Adams, and Moncrief all bring much more to the table IMO.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Also i dont agree with the he has to come out on passing plays. Leave his big *** on the field and collapse the pocket. Push the center right back into the QB face.

 

[Idioteque]

Let me also add that the distance between Bryant and Moncrief is so razor thin. Both have great size. Both have good straight line speed. Both have iffy hands. Bryant had a lot of drops early and many were because he turned to run and just flat out did not watch it in. Moncrief tends to fight the ball a little, double catches some, and lets them get into his body. I think Bryant has a little edge there. Bryant has some immaturity in his college career but I believe he turned a corner. Moncrief has no character issues I can find. So, that edge goes to Moncrief. I think Bryant is a little more fluid of an athlete, a little better in and out of his breaks. But, if you want speed and size, I think those two should be your front runners. I Latimer as well, did before he got all the hype. Big WR, muscled up, runs well, athletic, good hands. Adams has a monster catch radius, not quite as fast, but could be a very good 3rd down/chain moving type.

To me, Bryant seems to lack understanding of how to catch the ball. I've seen him reach with his hands three feet apart while the ball drops right in between them. I've seen him go 20 feet into the air, but pin the ball against his chest. I know he knows how to climb his defender and use his height, but I don't think he knows instinctively how to reel it in.

Latimer and Adams would be my 2nd-round gems. Both are remarkably physical and high-point the ball without pushing off; both have great verticals. Latimer's short TD against Dennard is a thing of beauty. He's also a tenacious blocker with good technique. Neither are deterred by contact.

 

[Idioteque]

Also i dont agree with the he has to come out on passing plays. Leave his big *** on the field and collapse the pocket. Push the center right back into the QB face.

That might be asking a lot from a 340+ guy with a knee problem. Nix also scares me because he regressed in his last year. Maybe it was injury-related, but getting worse as your college career goes on is not a good sign.

 

[Vader]

Also i dont agree with the he has to come out on passing plays. Leave his big *** on the field and collapse the pocket. Push the center right back into the QB face.

Almost ever review of him says he has no pass rushing moves. He didn't push the pocket on passing downs in college so there is no way in hell he is going to do it in the NFL. That's why most of the reviews say he is a 2 down DL.

 

[TMC]

That might be asking a lot from a 340+ guy with a knee problem. Nix also scares me because he regressed in his last year. Maybe it was injury-related, but getting worse as your college career goes on is not a good sign.

Yeah, the more film I watched of him, the less I liked what I saw. If you go to the Michigan State game, they blocked him a lot with a single guy, when they doubled him, they got movement, even turning him on some plays and riding him out. We drafted Casey Hampton with the 19th pick, Casey Hampton never moved until he got ready and it was always forward. He was brutally strong, something Nix is not. Nix lacks any type of speed, won't run much down. Casey did not have great speed, but he could get his hamburger eating *** to the edges and make plays, Nix rarely does. Two different animals. Nix is, at best, a space eater in the middle, nothing more.

I do not want him if the cost is a first or second. Not too high on Tuitt either.

 

[deljzc]

My list of WR's in the 2nd round would be:

Latimer
Bryant
Robinson
Benjamin

In that order. If all are gone, I'm not taking a 2nd round WR (and the cupboard would have to be pretty bare at other position for me to pick Benjamin).

I on record as not liking Moncreif's tape and I'm sticking to that. Something on film doesn't appeal to me and his measurables aren't going to change my mind.