Allen Robinson or Jordan Matthews

[ZACKB]

Nix played with a torn Meniscus, had surgery, plus blood platlet treatment, and is now supposedly healthy.

 

[ZACKB]

I do not want a wr in rd 2. I think if we trade down with the Phins/Eagles, etc, we can get a solid wr in rd 3. I want to go, cb, then d-line.

I really do like Beckham though..and I almost want to take him over a cb, but a good cb will be here and we def have a big need. I hope OBJ is there so we can use that to trade down.

 

[ark steel]

Again, I'll state my agreement with this statement, with the condition that the uneducated don't devote their free time to trolling and ****-talking. If they do, they're fair game to be called out on their admitted lack of knowledge. I'm sure you, and anyone reasonable, would agree with that.

But you consider "uneducated" to mean watching video as if that is the only way to get educated. That is, patently, false.

 

[Superman]

But you consider "uneducated" to mean watching video as if that is the only way to get educated. That is, patently, false.

To be fair, I did watch some Penn State games this season, since they were on ESPN while I was doing other things.
I did like what I saw from Robinson and viewed his highlights after the season.
I see a bigger WR that somewhat reminds me of Anquan Boldin, but I'm not saying he's the next Anquan Boldin.

I didn't like anything I saw about Benjamin, other than his height, and watched a few FSU games too.

 

[Idioteque]

But you consider "uneducated" to mean watching video as if that is the only way to get educated. That is, patently, false.

There may be other ways, sure. Copy-n-paste from NFL.com doesn't pass muster in my opinion.

 

[Superman]

There may be other ways, sure. Copy-n-paste from NFL.com doesn't pass muster in my opinion.

did i copy and paste from nfl.com, ************?
did I not provide more than one link to where I got information from?

your holier-than-thou bullshit is ******* lame.

I really don't seek out your approval prior to posting it here. I just look to the discussions (excluding yours) that follow.

 

[SteelerAl]

It would depend on who is there. My 2nd round WR wishlist starts with Martavis Bryant with Donte Moncrief second. After that, I guess it would be Cody Latimer, Jordan Matthews, DeVante Adams, Allen Robinson, and Kelvin Benjamin.

I think if you are wanting an edge receiver with some size, might as well swing for the fences and a get a guy with speed.

TMC, where do you rank Bruce Ellington?

 

[Idioteque]

did i copy and paste from nfl.com, ************?

Copy-n-paste is copy-n-paste.

your holier-than-thou bullshit is ******* lame.

I'd argue that your stalking/trolling bullshit is even worse.

I really don't seek out your approval prior to posting it here. I just look to the discussions (excluding yours) that follow.

LOL. Yes you do. You respond to a ton of my draft posts. You make direct comments to/about me so often I can't even keep track. You put me in your ******* signature! And you follow me to other boards to troll me about Lawrence ******* Timmons.

 

[Superman]

Copy-n-paste is copy-n-paste.



I'd argue that your stalking/trolling bullshit is even worse.



LOL. Yes you do. You respond to a ton of my draft posts. You make direct comments to/about me so often I can't even keep track. You put me in your ******* signature! And you follow me to other boards to troll me about Lawrence ******* Timmons.

you're ******* insane.

i believe I'm the one taking up residence in your head, not the other way around, Chums.

 

[Litos]

we need to invite some trolls to bash or we are gonna kill each other in such a long offseason

 

[Idioteque]

you're ******* insane.

i believe I'm the one taking up residence in your head, not the other way around, Chums.

Oh, you're in my signature line? I've tracked you across the ******* internet for 10 years?

 

[TMC]

TMC, where do you rank Bruce Ellington?

Of all the Gamecock guys in this draft, Ellington is one of my favorites. I may not be objective on this guy, so take it for what it is worth. Ellington is shorter than ideal. He is 5093, but he carries good weight on his frame (197 pounds). His official 40 was 4.45, but unofficial he was sub 4.4, which kind of shocked me. I knew he was quick, did not know he had that kind of straightline speed. The shuttle, which I look at almost first for all WRs because I think it is the best indicator for a guy to explode out of a break, is 3.95. Anything near 4.00 gets me a little frisky and sub-4.00 gives me wood. Those two numbers alone tell me he can press a corner deep but he can also make a hard break and get some separation, so not many interior CBs (3rd/4th corners) are going to press up in his face. He threw the bar up 15 times, so he can push through the press and with his speed/COD, he can shed that coverage. It makes him dangerous. He is a great leaper (39.5") and his BJ (over 10") also shows explosiveness. Everything is shorts is arrows up.

Now, his on the field production, on face value, is muddy. I need to cover his background a little. He is the cousin of Andre Ellington (played at Clemson, now with Buffalo I think, a RB). He came to SC to play basketball and was the starting PG. Very quick, great with the ball in his hand, carried them for a while. Now, I watch SC basketball too, the only basketball I follow and they generally suck. Ellington was a stud for them. He was the offense for them for a while. He did not play football at all until his sophomore season and he was used very little (they had other guys like Ace Sanders and Alshon Jeffery). In 2012, he saw more time, still behind some other guys, but got worked in more. He had 40 catches, 600 yards, 7 TDs. He returned kicks. He left again, played basketball. This year, he decided to leave basketball and concentrate on football only. Again, not stellar numbers, but he had 49 receptions, 775 yards, 8 TDs.

Here is what all that does not show. He is a HIGH character kid. I cannot recall any issues with him, academics, coaching, legal, nothing. Just comes out, works hard, plays hard. Flypaper hands. He makes catches he just should not make. And, he makes plays in the clutch, did it in basketball, did it in football. When the **** gets thick, he just responds. All the intangibles you want in a player. I cannot remember Ellington every dropping a pass. I do remember that, against Clemson in 2012, he had a play where he slipped coming out of his break and Shaw had already thrown the ball, He half gets his knees/cleats in the ground and propels himself back up, stretches out his arms, and makes the catch. He will throw his body around to grab the ball. He made the game winning catch in the bowl game against Michigan (14 seconds left). He made some great catches in their last bowl game to lead them to the win. He is also pretty fearless in traffic, not afraid to cross the middle. He gives good effort as a blocker too, very good slot blocker. I just like the guy.

Here is my rub, where do 5'9" WRs hold value for us right now? We have Brown and Lance Moore. Wheaton is 6'. Do you draft another shorter WR early? That is a tough call. I do not want to say no, but I value them a little less right now. I think Ellington is a 3rd round guy. I would likely take him ahead of Benjamin and Robinson, but not so sure I want them in the 2nd either. They have some things I like about them, guess it would all depend on who is on the board. Much easier to find a 5'9" slot receiver with speed late than it is a 6'2"+ WR. Dunno, waffling on this one, but I do like Ellington. Just to share this.....

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft...-prospect-Ellington-shows-off-dunking-ability

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/bruce-ellington-vs-missouri-2013/

 

[Idioteque]

Here is my rub, where do 5'9" WRs hold value for us right now? We have Brown and Lance Moore. Wheaton is 6'. Do you draft another shorter WR early? That is a tough call. I do not want to say no, but I value them a little less right now. I think Ellington is a 3rd round guy. I would likely take him ahead of Benjamin and Robinson, but not so sure I want them in the 2nd either. They have some things I like about them, guess it would all depend on who is on the board. Much easier to find a 5'9" slot receiver with speed late than it is a 6'2"+ WR. Dunno, waffling on this one, but I do like Ellington. Just to share this.....

I don't think we can count on Moore as a long-term slot. He's a one-and-done IMO. There are so many awesome slot prospects in this draft that we'd be insane not to look for our future slot. Like Ellington, who put on a ******* CLINIC in their bowl game.

What's your take on Campanaro? He's definitely small but very NFL-quick and tough. I can't draw a bead on his draft stock. He plays like a 3rd but has had some injuries.

 

[Hines57]

Why are you not looking at Wheaton as a slot guy? I imagine he will play both WR positions, inside and out as he gets himself going this year.

 

[Superman]

Oh, you're in my signature line? I've tracked you across the ******* internet for 10 years?

purposeful annoyance.
party of 1

 

[TMC]

I don't think we can count on Moore as a long-term slot. He's a one-and-done IMO. There are so many awesome slot prospects in this draft that we'd be insane not to look for our future slot. Like Ellington, who put on a ******* CLINIC in their bowl game.

What's your take on Campanaro? He's definitely small but very NFL-quick and tough. I can't draw a bead on his draft stock. He plays like a 3rd but has had some injuries.

I do not think we can count on him long-term either, but do you draft your slot early and hope you get a bigger guy later or the other way around? The way the draft shapes up for me, I go big then slot. Of course, I am of the opinion if I can grab a big in the 2nd and the best player on my board in the 3rd is Ellington, I go WR back to back. Others disagree, but I take the talent.

Campanaro is similar to Ellington athletically. I think he is a step behind in quicks and long speed, not much, but you can see a difference in burst on film. Ellington makes corners and breaks runs where DBs get the angle on Campanaro. Good build, similar size. Can be sloppy as a route runner, tries to get into the route too quickly. My biggest issue, he does not appear to like traffic. He has some drops when DBs are near or closing. I think he is a footsteps guy and I question his hands. He did play with a QB that scattered passes ala Kordell, but he also had some that hit him square in the hands and he flat out dropped them. He will get down in the middle of the field, run out of bounds, and gives little effort as a blocker. I just do not know if he is tough enough and has the hands I want in a smaller WR. If you are small, you damn well better catch the football. In a normal draft, I think he is a 5th down. In this draft, I pass. It is too deep at WR to worry with a guy with size and hand issues. The kid from Pittsburgh State, John Brown, is very interesting. If you get a big early, get Brown, you can pair him on the same side with Antonio and have a Brown out. Two quick speed WRs that can RAC. Brown has excellent long speed as well.

 

[TMC]

Why are you not looking at Wheaton as a slot guy? I imagine he will play both WR positions, inside and out as he gets himself going this year.

Probably because right now, he will be your starter on the edge. I think he can play either. But, I still am a guy that fancies having 4 quality WRs so you can go 5 wide with Miller and the 4 wideouts. And, I want 4 WRs that can run, grass burners, so if you stick a LB over an inside guy, down the slot we go.

 

[AggieSteel]

Dang I came in here hoping to see some debate between Robinson and Matthews. Kinda don't feel like reading through it all - did we ever reach a consensus on the actual thread topic before derailment?

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

I do not think we can count on him long-term either, but do you draft your slot early and hope you get a bigger guy later or the other way around? The way the draft shapes up for me, I go big then slot. Of course, I am of the opinion if I can grab a big in the 2nd and the best player on my board in the 3rd is Ellington, I go WR back to back. Others disagree, but I take the talent.

Campanaro is similar to Ellington athletically. I think he is a step behind in quicks and long speed, not much, but you can see a difference in burst on film. Ellington makes corners and breaks runs where DBs get the angle on Campanaro. Good build, similar size. Can be sloppy as a route runner, tries to get into the route too quickly. My biggest issue, he does not appear to like traffic. He has some drops when DBs are near or closing. I think he is a footsteps guy and I question his hands. He did play with a QB that scattered passes ala Kordell, but he also had some that hit him square in the hands and he flat out dropped them. He will get down in the middle of the field, run out of bounds, and gives little effort as a blocker. I just do not know if he is tough enough and has the hands I want in a smaller WR. If you are small, you damn well better catch the football. In a normal draft, I think he is a 5th down. In this draft, I pass. It is too deep at WR to worry with a guy with size and hand issues. The kid from Pittsburgh State, John Brown, is very interesting. If you get a big early, get Brown, you can pair him on the same side with Antonio and have a Brown out. Two quick speed WRs that can RAC. Brown has excellent long speed as well.

I lol'ed

10characters

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Probably because right now, he will be your starter on the edge. I think he can play either. But, I still am a guy that fancies having 4 quality WRs so you can go 5 wide with Miller and the 4 wideouts. And, I want 4 WRs that can run, grass burners, so if you stick a LB over an inside guy, down the slot we go.

What about Cody Latimer TMC.. he is 6'3''. Can we get him round 2?

 

[ZACKB]

Why do we have to go wr in rd 2...what about OLB or DE? I do, however, think they will go wr in rd 2.

 

[TMC]

What about Cody Latimer TMC.. he is 6'3''. Can we get him round 2?

I do not know if he is there by our pick in the second. I think it is pretty likely though. I watched film on Latimer prior to his meteoric rise up these draftniks' boards and I liked him. He has good straighline speed. He is big and not afraid to be physical. Good leaper with good hands, uses his body to wall off DBs. Willing blocker, may be one of the better blocking WRs. Looks to be a natural hands catcher. He runs pretty good routes. Now, the knocks, if you over throw him, he does not appear to have that extra to go and get it. He is fast, but if you put it 3-4 yards out in front, some WRs can kick in a little something and chase it down, he does not. Some of that could be on his QB, who threw a very flat pass and those are hard to chase down. I do not know if he has that true burst out of his breaks, but his ability to wall off helps in this area. Just a good, solid, all-around WR with size. Do not know if he will ever take his game to an elite level, but I think he could be a very dependable #2. One of the few taller WRs that if they do not explode as an edge guy, I think he has the tools to fit anywhere (slot or 4th WR). He also plays special teams IIRC, I think he is on coverage teams. Again, not afraid of being physical. Kind of Hines Wardish in his game, only bigger.

 

[Wingman]

That has me sold on him right there. Hope we get him.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

LOL. I've watched several games' worth of film. I know you're desperate to defend any and all things Big Ten, but he struggles mightily to remember to snatch the ball. Even when wide open. Pretty much every scouting report agrees with that.



That's misleading. Body catching is never warranted, as in making a basket with your hands and torso and waiting for the ball to get trapped in there. This is what Robinson does too often. The ideal thing is to secure the ball with your hands - only your hands - and immediately tuck it away into your body. But at all times, the smart thing is to catch with your hands alone. As soon as you wait for the ball to hit your chest, you're inviting it to bounce off.



Can, but often doesn't. When he goes up, you often see him cradle it in his chest. Going up to the high point is the MOST important time to hand-snatch a ball. You can also see him struggle to control the throw sometimes, juggling it just a bit even on a wide-open slant or curl. Sorry, but I don't see him as a natural catcher.



LOL, let's hope not.

Man, he's just the best at everything. I can't imagine why he's not a consensus top-10 guy.



Quite frankly, as knowledgeable as you are, your eyes mean jackshit when it comes to the Big Ten and the SEC because your brain distorts it all wildly.



Robinson has an ugly hitch in his get-off. Which means that, not only is he slow, he also tends to be inefficient off the line. Now, I may be wrong on this. He may be trying to use hesitation to freeze or deceive the secondary. But let's be frank - when you're already painfully slow, let's not compound the issue, LOL.



Allen was injured when he ran his 40.



Cody Latimer is a far, far better receiver whom I would take in the first. I'm probably bigger on him than anyone. I like Abbrederis too. Carlos Hyde is my #2 RB and I have Shazier as my top LB. My problem with Robinson is that I don't think he's going to be very good.

You aren't watching film. You are watching youtube clips of TV broadcasts where the WR runs his route off camera half the time.

Even so, i suggest you watch some more youtube clips because Robinson does not body catch most of the time like you keep saying. You're also flat wrong on your assessment that he's not a good athlete and that he struggles off the line.

You're the distorted one. You said Robinson was unathletic which is absolutely wrong. You also seem to think he's making a basket catch on like every other throw. You discount Dennard because he didn't play anybody in the Big Ten as you say. Which Big Ten players am i pimping? In this very thread i said i would go DL over Robinson. Yeah, i'm really hyping him up.

Another thing to consider with Robinson and all draft picks is how do they fit with the Steelers? They already have deep speed at WR. What they need is a good possession guy, a chain mover who can run after catch and is a good redzone target. That's Robinson.

Robinson also ran a full NFL route tree unlike most other WRs in this draft. This is the time of year when that sort of thing gets completely dismissed in favor of guys who have a fast 40.

 

[keslerclan]

In this draft, I hope we aren't in a position to be fighting over the 'best of the second group' of WRs. After the first 4 or 5 (and I'm not sold on any of them being elite) there is still a nice crop of WRs who might be big contributors in this league. I like Marqise Lee (his production is WOW) but a guy nearly identical could be had in round 4 like Josh Huff. I think he gets consistent separation, has the same attributes as Lee and reminds me of a 'go to' WR. He might not be as productive (but he didn't have to be). Another guy I like late is L'Damian Washington. He is 'thin' but doesn't play like it. Like Abbrederis, he plays a physical style with what he has. Watch his Draft Breakdown against A&M, Florida (and their CBs) and Georgia. Scouts say he uses his body well but body catches too much (I didn't see ONE). What I did see is him 'dive', 'high-point' and make some incredibly athletic grabs while being contested (better than most NFL WRs) against pretty stout competition. I would not rush to draft a WR in this draft. There are athletic contributors all the way through at WR. Kevin Norwood might end up being the next great #2 WR drafted in the 5th or 6th round?

I also think we will 'double-dip' at WR because of the depth available along with a 'double-dip' at DB. I HOPE the FO doesn't go early on a ILB or an OLB (unless miraculously, a top 10 guy falls) as this draft is weak at the position. There are some decent picks at DE, T and TE which could also be had later. Our #1 and #2 should be at CB and CB. We can get 'better than what we have' at other picks later. WR is an important 'need' but the draft is deep. I can also see a pick like Wes Johnson as early as #4.

Robinson is a good athlete with better than average size and ability...so is Latimer (who will be over-drafted) but I'll take a guy with 50 catches and 10 TDs with a 18yd/avg, great hands, height and red-zone ability (as well as special teams) over the guy with similar stats 5 rounds earlier.