And it Begins:Special Prosecutor To Investigate Trump And Russia

[madinsomniac]

Sounds like the indictment is probably tied to Manaforts actions in 2012 or 13 about money laundering with people loosely connected to Russia... it wont bethe Clintons or anything directly tied to Trump so both sides can keep moaning and bitching

 

[Steeltime]

I like licking a dog's ***. Know why? Because it improves my breath and because the poor dog cannot complain to the police. Oh, and my nickname is queef, and I like to eat my own vomit. So since you are an actual lawyer and not a dickless wanna-be like me, can you school my fat, bloated, ignorant, disgusting, mumu-wearing *** on obstruction of justice? Because I am stupid and keep citing bullshit from MediaMatters, as original thought is vastly beyond my tiny intellect and massive waistline.

Okay, but only because you asked nicely:

Uhhh, okay.

Of that, what has a whit of relevance to an investigation for alleged "collusion" or obstruction of Justice?

Remember these reports about Obama before the election in 2012?? That he was supposedly despondent, isolated, uninterested in the campaign, watched ESPN all day?

Yeah, those reports are exactly the same as the drivel this article offers. "Trump ready to go to war, seething."

Over what? Comey's statement from two weeks ago that Trump told Comey, "I hope you can let this go. He's a nice guy"?

Wait, what? That is not remotely close - not in the same ******* ballpark - as obstruction of justice:

Here are the well-defined actions that constitute obstruction of justice, under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 73:

§ 1502 - Resistance to extradition agent
§ 1503 - Influencing or injuring officer or juror generally
§ 1504 - Influencing juror by writing
§ 1505 - Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees
§ 1506 - Theft or alteration of record or process; false bail
§ 1507 - Picketing or parading
§ 1508 - Recording, listening to, or observing proceedings of grand or petit juries while deliberating or voting
§ 1509 - Obstruction of court orders
§ 1510 - Obstruction of criminal investigations
§ 1511 - Obstruction of State or local law enforcement
§ 1512 - Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant
§ 1513 - Retaliating against a witness, victim, or an informant
§ 1514 - Civil action to restrain harassment of a victim or witness
§ 1514A - Civil action to protect against retaliation in fraud cases
§ 1515 - Definitions for certain provisions; general provision
§ 1516 - Obstruction of Federal audit
§ 1517 - Obstructing examination of financial institution
§ 1518 - Obstruction of criminal investigations of health care offenses
§ 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy
§ 1520 - Destruction of corporate audit records
§ 1521 - Retaliating against a Federal judge or Federal law enforcement officer by false claim or slander of title

Oh, what about § 1505 - Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees, you ask? That statute provides:

Whoever, with intent to avoid, evade, prevent, or obstruct compliance, in whole or in part, with any civil investigative demand duly and properly made under the Antitrust Civil Process Act, willfully withholds, misrepresents, removes from any place, conceals, covers up, destroys, mutilates, alters, or by other means falsifies any documentary material, answers to written interrogatories, or oral testimony, which is the subject of such demand; or attempts to do so or solicits another to do so; or

Nope. Does not apply.

Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication influences, obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which any pending proceeding is being had before any department or agency of the United States,or the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress—

Shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

Nope. The quoted statement, "I hope you can let this go. He really is a nice guy," is vastly, woefully short of the conduct deemed to "corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication influences, obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law."

In United States v. Aguilar, 515 U.S. 593, 600, 115 S.Ct. 2357, 132 L.Ed.2d 520 (1995), the defendant was indicted under 18 U.S.C. § 1503 for obstructing a judicial proceeding. The indictment alleged that Aguilar had intentionally given false information to federal investigators who were potentially going to be called to testify before a grand jury. The Supreme Court held that lying to an investigating agent who “might or might not testify before a grand jury” did not constitute obstruction of a judicial proceeding. Aguilar, 515 U.S. at 600. The Court held that in order to be indictable for obstruction of a judicial proceeding, the defendant's actions must have a “natural and probable effect of interfering with the due administration of justice.” Id. at 601 (internal quotation marks omitted); see also United States v. Ryan, 455 F.2d 728, 734 (9th Cir.1972) (“The acts complained of must bear a reasonable relationship to the subject of the grand jury inquiry.”); United States v. Kassouf, 144 F.3d 952, 956-57 (6th Cir.1998) (holding that the act must have a relationship in time, causation or logic with the judicial proceedings)."

U.S. v. Hopper (9th Cir. 1999) 177 F.3d 824, 830

The significant, patent, undeniable problem with charging that Trump's statement, "Can you see your way to letting it go, he's a nice guy" clearly did not have the effect of interfering with the investigation in any respect and nobody claims otherwise.

In short, no possible obstruction. Zero.

See, this is why we attend these classes in big buildings where they teach us something called "law," and why we take this very difficult test called a "bar exam" before we can practice law.

Because amateur lawyers are wrong, wrong, more wrong, suck ***, misquote the law, don't understand the law, and don't know a single ******* thing about the actual law.

Later:

§ 1510 - Obstruction of criminal investigations
(a) Whoever willfully endeavors by means of bribery to obstruct, delay, or prevent the communication of information relating to a violation of any criminal statute of the United States by any person to a criminal investigator shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

Nope.

(b)(1) Whoever, being an officer of a financial institution, with the intent to obstruct a judicial proceeding, directly or indirectly notifies any other person about the existence or contents of a subpoena for records of that financial institution, or information that has been furnished in response to that subpoena, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

Nope.

(2) Whoever, being an officer of a financial institution, directly or indirectly notifies--
(A) a customer of that financial institution whose records are sought by a subpoena for records; or
(B) any other person named in that subpoena;

about the existence or contents of that subpoena or information that has been furnished in response to that subpoena, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
(3) As used in this subsection--
(A) the term “an officer of a financial institution” means an officer, director, partner, employee, agent, or attorney of or for a financial institution; and
(B) the term “subpoena for records” means a Federal grand jury subpoena or a Department of Justice subpoena (issued under section 3486 of title 18), for customer records that has been served relating to a violation of, or a conspiracy to violate--
(i) section 215, 656, 657, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1014, 1344, 1956, 1957, or chapter 53 of title 31; or
(ii) section 1341 or 1343 affecting a financial institution.
(c) As used in this section, the term “criminal investigator” means any individual duly authorized by a department, agency, or armed force of the United States to conduct or engage in investigations of or prosecutions for violations of the criminal laws of the United States.

Nope.

(d)(1) Whoever--
(A) acting as, or being, an officer, director, agent or employee of a person engaged in the business of insurance whose activities affect interstate commerce, or
(B) is engaged in the business of insurance whose activities affect interstate commerce or is involved (other than as an insured or beneficiary under a policy of insurance) in a transaction relating to the conduct of affairs of such a business,

with intent to obstruct a judicial proceeding, directly or indirectly notifies any other person about the existence or contents of a subpoena for records of that person engaged in such business or information that has been furnished to a Federal grand jury in response to that subpoena, shall be fined as provided by this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(2) As used in paragraph (1), the term “subpoena for records” means a Federal grand jury subpoena for records that has been served relating to a violation of, or a conspiracy to violate, section 1033 of this title.
(e) Whoever, having been notified of the applicable disclosure prohibitions or confidentiality requirements of section 2709(c)(1) of this title, section 626(d)(1) or 627(c)(1) of the Fair Credit Reporting Act (15 U.S.C. 1681u(d)(1) or 1681v(c)(1)), section 1114(a)(3)(A) or 1114(a)(5)(D)(i) of the Right to Financial Privacy Act1 (12 U.S.C. 3414(a)(3)(A) or 3414(a)(5)(D)(i)), or section 802(b)(1) of the National Security Act of 1947 (50 U.S.C. 436(b)(1)), knowingly and with the intent to obstruct an investigation or judicial proceeding violates such prohibitions or requirements applicable by law to such person shall be imprisoned for not more than five years, fined under this title, or both.

Nope.

You see why actually knowing the law, researching the law, examining the particulars of the governing statute are what it means to be a lawyer. So ...

Two scoops of ice cream? $1.99
Demoralizing the intellectually-lazy left? Free.
Beating amateur lawyer wanna-bes like they are Rodney King's ugly cousin? Priceless.

 

[Tibs]

Steeltime I'm afraid this case goes waaaaaaay beyond obstruction of justice. A tangled web indeed what Trump and his associates have weaved. Mueller is about to untangle it for the world to see.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Steeltime I'm afraid this case goes waaaaaaay beyond obstruction of justice. A tangled web indeed what Trump and his associates have weaved. Mueller is about to untangle it for the world to see.

It does you're right but not on Trump's side.

 

[hamster]

Steeltime I'm afraid this case goes waaaaaaay beyond obstruction of justice. A tangled web indeed what Trump and his associates have weaved. Mueller is about to untangle it for the world to see.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

And you rebooted into the worst bootkit Trojan imaginable: one that is in cahoots with a sworn enemy of the U.S.

Good job Trumptard "patriots"......................

Keep dreamin'.

 

[Iron95]

We need a reboot with someone who is not a jackass. I agree with most of Trumps policies, but I do not think the president of the USA should carry himself the way Trump does. I am all for getting rid of the establishment and status quo and what not, but give me an outsider who does not act like a teenage boy. I know what we had was not working, but what we have now is not working either. Trump has accomplished a few things, but all incoming presidents do that. We still have obama care, tax reform has not happened, all we have for the wall is prototypes and still no funding (especially from mexico). I realize there is a tax plan coming this week, but getting it passed is another story. So far Trump has not been able to get major things through congress.

General Patton was a jackass also but without him we loose WWII. Give the man a break. At least he WANTS to do whats right for our country. Obama tried to destroy our country and Hillary would have completed the task.

 

[jitter77]

General Patton was a jackass also but without him we loose WWII. Give the man a break. At least he WANTS to do whats right for our country. Obama tried to destroy our country and Hillary would have completed the task.

If he really wanted to do what was right he would lay off twitter, stop lying, and take some responsibility for his actions. How many times has he said "i didn't say that", but yet there is a clip or two of him saying it. Trump may want to do what is right deep down, but he just does not have the mental make up to do it. Trump creates so many distractions and negative headlines with his childish comments that his message/ agenda gets lost. You can fight back without acting like a baby or you can be the bigger person and move on. He either creates the distractions on purpose or is too mentally unstable that he can't control himself. Either option is not good for the most powerful person in the world

 

[Yinzerlyn]

Steeltime I'm afraid this case goes waaaaaaay beyond obstruction of justice. A tangled web indeed what Trump and his associates have weaved. Mueller is about to untangle it for the world to see.

Boy did I need a belly laugh to start the week.....

 

[Sarge]

Called it!!! Paul Manafort ordered to surrender. Ricky Gates as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5031419/Paul-Manafort-Rick-Gates-told-SURRENDER.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus

 

[Sarge]

According to the WSJ, one of the charges is tax fraud.

 

[IndySteel]

According to the WSJ, one of the charges is tax fraud.

That was the only thing they could get on Al Capone. This is a witch hunt hoax. The dems are desperate because the Clinton criminal organization is about to fall. It's going to be fun watching Chelsea sob.

 

[oneforthebus]

So from what I'm gathering Manafort and Gates have been indicted for stuff they did years ago that has nothing whatsoever to do with the Trump campaign, and the big Russia story is the Russians bought a bunch of facebook ads that gullible people fell for.

Enjoyed starting my morning with the disappointed faces of Alyson Camerota and Chris Cuomo. The desperate grasping to somehow, some way tie this to Trump is hilarious.

 

[Sarge]

12 counts, completely unrelated to the election. Not sure how that ties to Russian election collusion, but pretty much figured this is what it was gonna be.

 

[Tibs]

Peel that onion, one layer at a time. This move has been expected for months, good to see Mueller drop the hammer, a no brainer. What comes next?

So much for the Trump/Breitbart/Fox/SN fallacy that this investigation is fake news. That just went out the window. This investigation is not only real, but in my judgement, still in it's early stages. Great to see Mueller's investigators able to paint a clear picture with Manafort's dealings, including business, banking and tax information. That tells me the process they've set up is highly capable to get to the bottom of criminal activity across borders, involving real estate deals, offshore accounts, tax returns et al. This is a good start, kudos to the DOJ and FBI for uncovering illegal, criminal activity.

The fact Trump hired this clown to run his campaign is simply mind-numbing. The fact Trump, Trump Jr., Kuchner, Ivanka, Flynn, Bannon et al will face similar scrutiny by Mueller's team should be comforting to every American.

 

[Sarge]

Peel that onion, one layer at a time. This move has been expected for months, good to see Mueller drop the hammer, a no brainer. What comes next?

So much for the Trump/Breitbart/Fox/SN fallacy that this investigation is fake news. That just went out the window. This investigation is not only real, but in my judgement, still in it's early stages. Great to see Mueller's investigators able to paint a clear picture with Manafort's dealings, including business, banking and tax information. That tells me the process they've set up is highly capable to get to the bottom of criminal activity across borders, involving real estate deals, offshore accounts, tax returns et al. This is a good start, kudos to the DOJ and FBI for uncovering illegal, criminal activity.

The fact Trump hired this clown to run his campaign is simply mind-numbing. The fact Trump, Trump Jr., Kuchner, Ivanka, Flynn, Bannon et al will face similar scrutiny by Mueller's team should be comforting to every American.

The Russian collusion thing is fake news. That is why with these indictments, there is nothing election related. If we are going to go looking for skeletons, we would have a whole new government at the end of it. Personally, I don't give a **** about Manafort or any of it. He can rot. But any honest, objective person can see what this is. In this case, you are not that honest, objective person.

 

[Smash]

Peel that onion, one layer at a time. This move has been expected for months, good to see Mueller drop the hammer, a no brainer. What comes next?

So much for the Trump/Breitbart/Fox/SN fallacy that this investigation is fake news. That just went out the window. This investigation is not only real, but in my judgement, still in it's early stages. Great to see Mueller's investigators able to paint a clear picture with Manafort's dealings, including business, banking and tax information. That tells me the process they've set up is highly capable to get to the bottom of criminal activity across borders, involving real estate deals, offshore accounts, tax returns et al. This is a good start, kudos to the DOJ and FBI for uncovering illegal, criminal activity.

The fact Trump hired this clown to run his campaign is simply mind-numbing. The fact Trump, Trump Jr., Kuchner, Ivanka, Flynn, Bannon et al will face similar scrutiny by Mueller's team should be comforting to every American.

Be careful what you wish for. Manafort can be tied to Podesta group too. And Russia.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/podesta-manafort-lobbying/index.html

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Peel that onion, one layer at a time. This move has been expected for months, good to see Mueller drop the hammer, a no brainer. What comes next?

So much for the Trump/Breitbart/Fox/SN fallacy that this investigation is fake news. That just went out the window. This investigation is not only real, but in my judgement, still in it's early stages. Great to see Mueller's investigators able to paint a clear picture with Manafort's dealings, including business, banking and tax information. That tells me the process they've set up is highly capable to get to the bottom of criminal activity across borders, involving real estate deals, offshore accounts, tax returns et al. This is a good start, kudos to the DOJ and FBI for uncovering illegal, criminal activity.

The fact Trump hired this clown to run his campaign is simply mind-numbing. The fact Trump, Trump Jr., Kuchner, Ivanka, Flynn, Bannon et al will face similar scrutiny by Mueller's team should be comforting to every American.

This changes nothing about the Russia "Collusion" investigation this is a Manafort story only.

 

[oneforthebus]

Peel that onion, one layer at a time. This move has been expected for months, good to see Mueller drop the hammer, a no brainer. What comes next?

So much for the Trump/Breitbart/Fox/SN fallacy that this investigation is fake news. That just went out the window. This investigation is not only real, but in my judgement, still in it's early stages. Great to see Mueller's investigators able to paint a clear picture with Manafort's dealings, including business, banking and tax information. That tells me the process they've set up is highly capable to get to the bottom of criminal activity across borders, involving real estate deals, offshore accounts, tax returns et al. This is a good start, kudos to the DOJ and FBI for uncovering illegal, criminal activity.

The fact Trump hired this clown to run his campaign is simply mind-numbing. The fact Trump, Trump Jr., Kuchner, Ivanka, Flynn, Bannon et al will face similar scrutiny by Mueller's team should be comforting to every American.

Still not one shred of evidence of collusion with Russia re: the election, but keep dreaming.

 

[Tibs]

The Russian collusion thing is fake news.

This changes nothing about the Russia "Collusion" investigation this is a Manafort story only.

Still not one shred of evidence of collusion with Russia re: the election, but keep dreaming.

Today's indictment against Manafort does little to push the needle - one way or another - on the multiple angles of this investigation, including Russian collusion. We have no clarity of where Mueller is on those fronts. It seems at this stage he simply had enough hard evidence against Manafort and his partner that he filed the charges against them. What is still on the table, we have no idea about. So yes, it is presumptious of me to think this thing will go further, much further, and implicate a host of others on a myriad of charges. It is also presumptious on all your part to think that it won't. We simply don't know.

 

[DBS1970]

Tibs is still trying to put a spin on this nothing burger. This is how it will be every time any non-Socialist is elected to the presidency from now own.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Today's indictment against Manafort does little to push the needle - one way or another - on the multiple angles of this investigation, including Russian collusion. We have no clarity of where Mueller is on those fronts. It seems at this stage he simply had enough hard evidence against Manafort and his partner that he filed the charges against them. What is still on the table, we have no idea about. So yes, it is presumptious of me to think this thing will go further, much further, and implicate a host of others on a myriad of charges. It is also presumptious on all your part to think that it won't. We simply don't know.

Then quit acting like it will and we won't give you ****.

 

[IndySteel]

Tibs is still trying to put a spin on this nothing burger. This is how it will be every time any non-Socialist is elected to the presidency from now own.

While completely ignoring the fact that Clinton colluded with Russia on the dossier and uranium.

 

[IndySteel]

Today's indictment against Manafort does little to push the needle - one way or another - on the multiple angles of this investigation, including Russian collusion. We have no clarity of where Mueller is on those fronts. It seems at this stage he simply had enough hard evidence against Manafort and his partner that he filed the charges against them. What is still on the table, we have no idea about. So yes, it is presumptious of me to think this thing will go further, much further, and implicate a host of others on a myriad of charges. It is also presumptious on all your part to think that it won't. We simply don't know.

I think we should start calling you BFH. Big ******* Hypocrite.

 

[oneforthebus]

Today's indictment against Manafort does little to push the needle - one way or another - on the multiple angles of this investigation, including Russian collusion. We have no clarity of where Mueller is on those fronts. It seems at this stage he simply had enough hard evidence against Manafort and his partner that he filed the charges against them. What is still on the table, we have no idea about. So yes, it is presumptious of me to think this thing will go further, much further, and implicate a host of others on a myriad of charges. It is also presumptious on all your part to think that it won't. We simply don't know.

I'm not presuming anything. I'm just stating the FACT that as of yet we've seen nothing to indicate or even hint at election collusion or any criminal activity on the part of Trump whatsoever. If that changes I'll be the first to say so.