Are there any left?

[Steelr4evr]

Duh was in no way qualified to be an NFL coach.
He was hired for one reason, because he was Shades’ bud. Again, Shades’ record is one of hiring only people he knows or worked with before. That doesn’t get your the best people, Duh was merely the worst of the lot.

Well that **** isn't working out too well. To me it just says winning championships isn't the real goal. Talking about it and actually building a champion are not the same thing.

You need championship level coaching. I haven't seen this team look like a well oiled machine in a very long time.

I just don't see the dedication from everyone. I only see handfuls who really give a ****.


I'd love to see a championship level staff again and until they're no longer content with just being kind ok, good on some days,bad on others, never great, then we will be stuck in mediocre hell.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Well that **** isn't working out too well. To me it just says winning championships isn't the real goal. Talking about it and actually building a champion are not the same thing.

You need championship level coaching. I haven't seen this team look like a well oiled machine in a very long time.

I just don't see the dedication from everyone. I only see handfuls who really give a ****.


I'd love to see a championship level staff again and until they're no longer content with just being kind ok, good on some days,bad on others, never great, then we will be stuck in mediocre hell.

Assuming Tomlin is back, they need to virtually clean house with the offensive staff and as you said, bring in a championship level staff as well as make a move at DC.

 

[topseed]

Nah. The people most responsible for the results of a game are the people who actually play it. They are most responsible for the wins and the losses. It's common sense. In your view it's like making the bartender responsible for the drunk. If I had any say in the HOF, there would be very, very few coaches in there. It's about the players. But hell, don't believe me. Chuck Noll often said the same thing. Which is why he wouldn't do commercials and all that stuff. He would say when asked it's about the players, let them benefit.

So how are all of the new drunks brought in by this 12-million-dollars-a-year bartender doing? Since it's all about the players, how are the players that Tomlin has drafted and "developed" performing lately?

I'm not apologizing for Tomlin. Don't have to.

Sure you're not. You're just calling Tomlin a glorified bartender. Which might be giving him too much credit, actually.

I never said "Tomlin won the Super Bowl." I have stated Tomlin was the coach when they won it. As such, he gets the credit...for being the coach when they won it. Those are the facts. No one knows if Cowher or someone else would have. Aged well doesn't even make any sense as I have also clearly stated that doesn't mean he should have a lifetime job. I have never once argued for that. But it is a cheap shot trying to diminish what he accomplished with that team because the results since haven't that great.

Oh, no? You never said that Tomlin won the Super Bowl? I guess I must've imagined it when you said: "If a coach has a tree or not has nothing to do with his ability as a coach. He won in '08. Nothing else matters."

 

[Steeltime]

From Pittsburgh to Washington?
“I’m telling you, if Mike Tomlin was available, teams would be lining up ..."

I have heard this several times and think it arguably the stupidest claim regarding any NFL coach. "I'm telling you" is just another way of saying "I am claiming something with zero actual evidentiary support."

 

[Superman]

I have heard this several times and think it arguably the stupidest claim regarding any NFL coach. "I'm telling you" is just another way of saying "I am claiming something with zero actual evidentiary support."

I'm telling you, if you get this shot...

 

[diver]

So how are all of the new drunks brought in by this 12-million-dollars-a-year bartender doing? Since it's all about the players, how are the players that Tomlin has drafted and "developed" performing lately?

Sure you're not. You're just calling Tomlin a glorified bartender. Which might be giving him too much credit, actually.

Oh, no? You never said that Tomlin won the Super Bowl? I guess I must've imagined it when you said: "If a coach has a tree or not has nothing to do with his ability as a coach. He won in '08. Nothing else matters."

The players are not doing well. And yes, Tomlin bears responsibility for some of that. But not ALL. Or even mostly for that matter. I'd make it about 50/50. Thats reasonable. Tomlin has to take players that themselves must have the desire to improve as well as the work ethic and put them in the proper position to succeed. He has not done that, I agree. But I don't think these players are doing what they themselves need to do to improve either. You've seen some of the film breakdowns by a guy like Merril Hoge I'm sure. Does that appear like players who are highly motivated to be better? Are these players just lumps of clay to be molded with no choices in anything? What responsibility do the players have toward their improvement?

Your other two points are silly and weak. You and I have debated this over and over again. I always have stated or inferred Tomlin was the coach when they won in '08. You know it. As such, he gets credit for being the coach of that team. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[mdk2]

ESPN and FOX sports has now turned all the negativity towards Ben now. Ben is now being scolded for maybe even hinting that Steelers tradition is gone and they don't like how he's blaming Tomlin(even though he says nothing about Tomlin). I wonder why these same people gave no ***** about anyone saying Belichick needs to go(been to 9 SBs) but the instant anyone even hints at Tomlin being done, they attack emotionally. The people opening their mouths are Keyshawn Johnson, Michael Irvin, and Stephan A. I wonder if anyone can figure out why they care about what's said about Tomlin but not a care in the world about what's said regarding Belichick..

 

[GMC]

The players are not doing well. And yes, Tomlin bears responsibility for some of that. But not ALL. Or even mostly for that matter. I'd make it about 50/50. Thats reasonable. Tomlin has to take players that themselves must have the desire to improve as well as the work ethic and put them in the proper position to succeed. He has not done that, I agree. But I don't think these players are doing what they themselves need to do to improve either. You've seen some of the film breakdowns by a guy like Merril Hoge I'm sure. Does that appear like players who are highly motivated to be better? Are these players just lumps of clay to be molded with no choices in anything? What responsibility do the players have toward their improvement?

Something is broken and I find it hard to believe a large number of these players are just un-coachable and lazy. There are too many current players not living up to expectations and too many former players, who struggled here, excelling with their new team. Not to mention former quality starters looking lost in this system. Player development seems no existent, especially on offense.

 

[SteelerFan448]

ESPN and FOX sports has now turned all the negativity towards Ben now. Ben is now being scolded for maybe even hinting that Steelers tradition is gone and they don't like how he's blaming Tomlin(even though he says nothing about Tomlin). I wonder why these same people gave no ***** about anyone saying Belichick needs to go(been to 9 SBs) but the instant anyone even hints at Tomlin being done, they attack emotionally. The people opening their mouths are Keyshawn Johnson, Michael Irvin, and Stephan A. I wonder if anyone can figure out why they care about what's said about Tomlin but not a care in the world about what's said regarding Belichick..

Tony Reali questioned the ATH panel about this, saying they said the same thing about the Steelers for the past few weeks. They don't question Ryan Clark when he says these types of things about the Steelers either.

 

[jiminoh]

There are too many current players not living up to expectations and too many former players, who struggled here, excelling with their new team.

That's the tell-all for me. I hate it, but it's true.

 

[Greg Lloyd]

Assuming Tomlin is back, they need to virtually clean house with the offensive staff and as you said, bring in a championship level staff as well as make a move at DC.

Woa, that's way too much work for Deuce, way too much. Not gonna happen; he and Shades ain't into getting that uncomfortable, no way, no how.

 

[diver]

Something is broken and I find it hard to believe a large number of these players are just un-coachable and lazy. There are too many current players not living up to expectations and too many former players, who struggled here, excelling with their new team. Not to mention former quality starters looking lost in this system. Player development seems no existent, especially on offense.

I don't know that they are uncoachable or lazy as much as they can't think beyond themselves with any consistency. There seems to not be a consistent team first attitude. I think this problem is rampant around the league, not just in Pittsburgh. We are just hyper-focused on the Steelers. This is not an excuse for Tomlin. Just an observation. How do you explain some of these losses? Jacksonville. The Packers losing to the Giants. The Chargers. The Lions losing to the Bears? Is it terrible coaching everywhere? Are these players today lacking in something?

 

[GMC]

I don't know that they are uncoachable or lazy as much as they can't think beyond themselves with any consistency. There seems to not be a consistent team first attitude. I think this problem is rampant around the league, not just in Pittsburgh. We are just hyper-focused on the Steelers. This is not an excuse for Tomlin. Just an observation. How do you explain some of these losses? Jacksonville. The Packers losing to the Giants. The Chargers. The Lions losing to the Bears? Is it terrible coaching everywhere? Are these players today lacking in something?

"Any given Sunday" would probably account for some of them. However, when it happens consistently over a decade, with really only one common denominator, I tend to point my finger in that direction. It just seems this team has shown up unprepared or overlooked too many inferior opponents, too many times with too many different players, for it to not be systemic.

 

[topseed]

The players are not doing well. And yes, Tomlin bears responsibility for some of that. But not ALL. Or even mostly for that matter. I'd make it about 50/50. Thats reasonable. Tomlin has to take players that themselves must have the desire to improve as well as the work ethic and put them in the proper position to succeed. He has not done that, I agree. But I don't think these players are doing what they themselves need to do to improve either. You've seen some of the film breakdowns by a guy like Merril Hoge I'm sure. Does that appear like players who are highly motivated to be better? Are these players just lumps of clay to be molded with no choices in anything? What responsibility do the players have toward their improvement?

I'm talking about the players, in general, that Tomlin has brought in and coached. There are none of "Cowher's players" on the team anymore. And we see the results.

Of course there should be a level of personal responsibility. With Pickens, I believe his lack of motivation is a function of his frustration with the style of offense that has been implemented and embraced by the head coach.

Your other two points are silly and weak. You and I have debated this over and over again. I always have stated or inferred Tomlin was the coach when they won in '08. You know it. As such, he gets credit for being the coach of that team. Nothing more, nothing less.

Right. You say show me where you ever said that Tomlin won the Super Bowl. I show you your exact quote stating that. Now comes your silly and weak denial. What a surprise.

 

[Punxsutawney]

"Any given Sunday" would probably account for some of them. However, when it happens consistently over a decade, with really only one common denominator, I tend to point my finger in that direction. It just seems this team has shown up unprepared or overlooked too many inferior opponents, too many times with too many different players, for it to not be systemic.

This is pretty much it, though the Steelers probably are one of those "inferior teams" anymore. Tomlin's signature is on that as well.

Anyone trying to dismiss or downplay Tomlin's failings due to current players (who he has a big role in bringing in, BTW) simply not getting it done are just making excuses for him. Nothing more, nothing less.

This **** has transcended numerous rosters and coordinators for a LONG time now.

Mike Tomlin is the problem at this point and there is no realistic chance of meaningful change until he is gone.

No amount of ball washing or deflection is going to change that fact.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

ESPN and FOX sports has now turned all the negativity towards Ben now. Ben is now being scolded for maybe even hinting that Steelers tradition is gone and they don't like how he's blaming Tomlin(even though he says nothing about Tomlin). I wonder why these same people gave no ***** about anyone saying Belichick needs to go(been to 9 SBs) but the instant anyone even hints at Tomlin being done, they attack emotionally. The people opening their mouths are Keyshawn Johnson, Michael Irvin, and Stephan A. I wonder if anyone can figure out why they care about what's said about Tomlin but not a care in the world about what's said regarding Belichick..

It's funny how everyone is OK kicking Belichick to the curb. It was ALLLL Tom Brady. Nevermind BB, had decades of being one of the smartest DCs in the game. He was the reason the Giants won super bowls. Then he gets to the Pats. People act like Brady arrived fully formed as a franchise QB. He wasn't. He was thrust into the lineuup due to injury and was a game manager. They won their first SB with running and screen passes plus defense.

Then Belichick was a smart enough coach to see what he had in Brady and completely redesigned the offense to fit him. The Pats missed the playoffs the year after that first SB win because Brady struggled with the new expanded offense. They kept with it and the next year Brady developed as a franchise QB.

BB also had to deal with losing assistants left and right for head coaching jobs.

Contrast with Tomlin who inherited a SB winning team with a young franchise QB, a great defense and a damn good coaching staff. Somehow nobody in the media ever says Tomlin won because of Ben. Tomlin barely had a resume prior to getting the steeler job. He was a DB coach for a few seasons. He coached a secondary with Hall Of Famers Ronde Barber and John Lynch. Super tough job. He then served as Minnesota DC for 1 year where his defense was last in the league against the pass (or maybe rush, i don't feel like looking it up).

Somehow BB is finished and should be kicked to the curb, but Tomlin is untouchable.

 

[diver]

I'm talking about the players, in general, that Tomlin has brought in and coached. There are none of "Cowher's players" on the team anymore. And we see the results.

Of course there should be a level of personal responsibility. With Pickens, I believe his lack of motivation is a function of his frustration with the style of offense that has been implemented and embraced by the head coach.

Right. You say show me where you ever said that Tomlin won the Super Bowl. I show you your exact quote stating that. Now comes your silly and weak denial. What a surprise.

To me that is an absolutely fair and reasonable criticism of Tomlin about his players. That is observable and measurable. He should answer for that with his job. Enough is enough. However, it is speculation when it is said he won with Cowher players, not because of the fact that he had Cowher players, obviously he did, but there is no guarantee someone else would have won. It seems like what is inferred there is anyone would have won with those players. Maybe, but we know Tomlin did.

I don't even know how to respond to your other point. It's silly. Especially in light of how much I have argued for player responsibility for wins and losses. You think you got something there...you don't. I don't have anything to deny.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

He then served as Minnesota DC for 1 year where his defense was last in the league against the pass (or maybe rush, i don't feel like looking it up).

Shades’ defense with the Vikings had the unique distinction of being #1 against the run and dead last #32 against the pass, at the same time. Which is even funnier when you remember he cut his teeth as a DB coach.

 

[Greg Lloyd]

I don't know that they are uncoachable or lazy as much as they can't think beyond themselves with any consistency. There seems to not be a consistent team first attitude. I think this problem is rampant around the league, not just in Pittsburgh. We are just hyper-focused on the Steelers. This is not an excuse for Tomlin. Just an observation. How do you explain some of these losses? Jacksonville. The Packers losing to the Giants. The Chargers. The Lions losing to the Bears? Is it terrible coaching everywhere? Are these players today lacking in something?

I don't know: We got our @sses kicked for TWO weeks in a ROW by terrible, 2-10 teams. I mean, come on. There are no excuses for such uninspired play, this team is broken, period. And the head coach MUST be part of the problem, as is ownership, period.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Shades’ defense with the Vikings had the unique distinction of being #1 against the run and dead last #32 against the pass, at the same time. Which is even funnier when you remember he cut his teeth as a DB coach.

In fairness, part of the reason they gave up so many passing yards was because they were so difficult to run on that teams didn't try it much. Kind of like the Steelers during that time.

The Vikings defense didn't rank that badly in scoring or yards per pass that season.

The inability to draft and develop top-end DB talent with the Steelers is probably the far greater indictment of Tomlin as a former DBs coach, though it looks like Porter Jr is about to put an end to that.

The Steelers were simply due in that regard.

 

[topseed]

If it is more about the coach or coaches than the players, why are fans all buying player jerseys?

Pssst....there's no such thing as a coach's jersey.

 

[topseed]

Yes but the first year or two you still have residual depth. It gets worse every year that you keep winning. You don't fall off a cliff you tumble down the hill. See the Chiefs this year for an example.

The Chiefs are tumbling down a hill? What? KC has aready been to two Super Bowls since Mahomes signed his big contract in July of 2020. They won it last year, three full seasons into that deal. If Toney doesn't line up in the neutral zone, they'd be sitting 9-4 right now, but even at 8-5 they still remain among the three favorites to win another Super Bowl at +650. So your example sucks.

Tomlin currently has the Steelers at 140-to-1, in case you were wondering how far they've tumbled.

 

[topseed]

To me that is an absolutely fair and reasonable criticism of Tomlin about his players. That is observable and measurable. He should answer for that with his job. Enough is enough. However, it is speculation when it is said he won with Cowher players, not because of the fact that he had Cowher players, obviously he did, but there is no guarantee someone else would have won. It seems like what is inferred there is anyone would have won with those players. Maybe, but we know Tomlin did.

And there's no guarantee that someone else wouldn't have. Just like you or I or Barry Switzer could have coached the '95 Cowboys to a Super Bowl win. At least knew he was a fraud, and got out of the game two years later. Tomlin has been milking this shlt for all its worth. Every last penny.

I don't even know how to respond to your other point. It's silly. Especially in light of how much I have argued for player responsibility for wins and losses. You think you got something there...you don't. I don't have anything to deny.

You don't need to respond further. "He (Tomlin) won in '08. Nothing else matters..." said it all.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

The Chiefs are tumbling down a hill? What? KC has aready been to two Super Bowls since Mahomes signed his big contract in July of 2020. They won it last year, three full seasons into that deal. If Toney doesn't line up in the neutral zone, they'd be sitting 9-4 right now, but even at 8-5 they still remain among the three favorites to win another Super Bowl at +650. So your example sucks.

Tomlin currently has the Steelers at 140-to-1, in case you were wondering how far they've tumbled.

The chiefs are a shell of themselves. My example is spot on and parallels well with the Steelers in 2005-2010 won a couple Super Bowls got to another but every year the depth got worse. Not sure how much clearer the connection could be. They could win another but hell they could get bounced in the first round.

 

[twalk87]

Earlier this year, Eisen went as far as to say anyone who suggests Tomlin should be fired is dumb.

I guess winning a playoff game every so often is too much to ask.

That was the last time I watched his podcast on YouTube, after watching it daily for a long time. **** him.

Eisen isa doucher.......