Are there any left?

[diver]

Somehow Tomlin always came back from an embarrassing loss, like the cardinals one with a big win, especially if it was a prime time game or against a contender, he bounced back with a strong performance and made you think, maybe, just maybe if he hires the correct coaches to do the x & o's he can deliver a SB run next season. But the correct hirings never came, though he did have the chance to keep flores and didnt as others have pointed out (maybe he saw him as a threat? Id bet on it). How is it the player's fault when they fail to execute a low % play, a terrible set of playcalls actually?

NOw it looks like he also lost the locker room. So who's fault is it to not having leaders? Maybe he does have them but lost their respect?

I think he is been done for a long while, but i also thought he would bounce back against the patriots like he always did in prime time to keep fans and media content with the product. But after last game, I think there are no more half measures that help him keep the team afloat, he lost the locker room and he lost the people's support.

I don't disagree with any of that. Some of you may be mistaking what I am objecting too in this particular thread. That is the idea of having to explain or apologize for prior or present support of Tomlin. That was the theme of the original post. I have come to the conclusion as well that it is over for Tomlin here. He needs to go. But I will not apologize for my prior support for him. What's funny is if they would have moved on from Tomlin 5 years ago or whatever, I would have lost no sleep. When the Steelers win, the last thing I think about is the coach's performance, but I think I am consistent...when they lose the first thing I think about is again player performance. I know coaches are important, but I just don't think it is the most important thing. Perhaps that is part of the disonnect.

 

[diver]

He won with Cowher's players....lol lol .....If is wasn't a sticking point why would sooooooo many people say those very words....lol he sucks

Because people try to come up with justifications for why they want him gone, some very legitimate, some not so much. I don't think that one is. He was the coach when they won it, he gets credit for being the coach and getting the team to that championship. There is no way anyone can say for sure if Cowher stayed he would have. We know Tomlin did. Be thankful for that. But that doesn't mean he should have the job for life.

 

[diver]

It's not necessarily about the success of a coaching tree, but rather the perception of a team and their X's and O's that gets coaches hired. No one even sniffs around the Steelers. After getting fired, Randy Fichtner is out of football and Matt Canada will never be an NFL OC again. I would guess that Teryl Austin won't be an NFL DC again once he is fired.

Ok. I can see that. I was just so focused on if the tree was any good. I still think that is important to some degree.

 

[Litos]

I don't disagree with any of that. Some of you may be mistaking what I am objecting too in this particular thread. That is the idea of having to explain or apologize for prior or present support of Tomlin. That was the theme of the original post. I have come to the conclusion as well that it is over for Tomlin here. He needs to go. But I will not apologize for my prior support for him. What's funny is if they would have moved on from Tomlin 5 years ago or whatever, I would have lost no sleep. When the Steelers win, the last thing I think about is the coach's performance, but I think I am consistent...when they lose the first thing I think about is again player performance. I know coaches are important, but I just don't think it is the most important thing. Perhaps that is part of the disonnect.

it wasn't meant as a reply against you, was just venting my thoughts, given that also I thought with the right crew he would have worked as head coach, to a really great level.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Because people try to come up with justifications for why they want him gone, some very legitimate, some not so much. I don't think that one is. He was the coach when they won it, he gets credit for being the coach and getting the team to that championship. There is no way anyone can say for sure if Cowher stayed he would have. We know Tomlin did. Be thankful for that. But that doesn't mean he should have the job for life.

The TFC likes to ask why didn’t Cowher win another SB with Cowher’s team and went 8-8 the next year?
I like to ask how come Shades didn’t win another SB with Shades’ team and went 9-7 the next year?
The TFC goes silent.
These go to 11. It’s one more, isn’t it?
Greatest coach everrrr….
We know for sure that as Cowher’s players and staff retired or moved on that the team’s playoff performance got steadily worse.
38 players from 2005 were still on the roster in 2008. 18 players from 2005, mostly starters, were still on the roster in 2010. Along with most of the coaching staff.
Until proven otherwise, I will always say that Shades got to his SB’s with Cowher’s players. Because that’s what the evidence indicates. With his own roster and staff he’s lucky to be .500.

 

[Stainless]

Are you not entertained?

 

[topseed]

They don't even have to explain it. Who the hell are you that it has to be explained to you? This whole thing for me isn't about Tomlin per say. I object to the having to explain concept. I object to the original post calling anyone who supported Tomlin over the years...idiots. It's the same attitude as that jackass Madden always talking down to Steeler fans.

Who the hell am I? I'm a guy discussing Tomlin on a message board, asswipe. Who the hell are you? If he doesn't care to explain his position, why would he post about it in the first place?

If no one with any sense puts it all on Tomlin, there are a hell of a lot of guys on here who have no damn sense. I have read that so often over the years.

Mommy and Daddy issues. That was good. But there is a definite difference in the way it used to be and more recent times. The first thing blamed is the coaching it seems like anymore. I never said coaching isn't important, but my experience was players play, they are more responsible.

Of course. So like Phinnster pointed out, with you, it's the players' fault when they lose, yet Tomlin gets the credit when they win. We understand. And, by the way, your own personal "experience" has exactly zero bearing on the level of responsibility of an NFL head coach.

Lombardi had no coaching tree. Belechick has no coaching tree. Noll didn't have much. And dammit, if the tree bears no fruit, it's useless, making the argument useless. If a coach has a tree or not has nothing to do with his ability as a coach. He won in '08. Nothing else matters. Would you rather he lost?

Ah, yes. There it is again -- Tomlin won that Super Bowl in '08. And since nothing else matters, and he has such wonderful ability as a head coach, it must be the players' fault that he hasn't won jack shlt since then.

 

[Litos]

I bought a THE STANDARD IS THE STANDARD t-shirt Green Bay weekend. It's dijon mustard yellow.
After these last 2 losses I don't think I am going to wear it again.

I am SMH

You can always get artistic and paint a NOT in the phrase and wear it in protest

 

[Misstha70’s]

The TFC likes to ask why didn’t Cowher win another SB with Cowher’s team and went 8-8 the next year?
I like to ask how come Shades didn’t win another SB with Shades’ team and went 9-7 the next year?
The TFC goes silent.
These go to 11. It’s one more, isn’t it?
Greatest coach everrrr….
We know for sure that as Cowher’s players and staff retired or moved on that the team’s playoff performance got steadily worse.
38 players from 2005 were still on the roster in 2008. 18 players from 2005, mostly starters, were still on the roster in 2010. Along with most of the coaching staff.
Until proven otherwise, I will always say that Shades got to his SB’s with Cowher’s players. Because that’s what the evidence indicates. With his own roster and staff he’s lucky to be .500.

Amen!!! Agree 10000000000% until .500 wins with his OWN players he is forever .500

 

[Misstha70’s]

Mentioning Lombardi and Noll in the same sentence as .500 is BLASPHEMY. .500 doesn't and will never deserve to be in the same sentence as those 2 legends!!!!

 

[Coryea]

The TFC likes to ask why didn’t Cowher win another SB with Cowher’s team and went 8-8 the next year?
I like to ask how come Shades didn’t win another SB with Shades’ team and went 9-7 the next year?
The TFC goes silent.
These go to 11. It’s one more, isn’t it?
Greatest coach everrrr….
We know for sure that as Cowher’s players and staff retired or moved on that the team’s playoff performance got steadily worse.
38 players from 2005 were still on the roster in 2008. 18 players from 2005, mostly starters, were still on the roster in 2010. Along with most of the coaching staff.
Until proven otherwise, I will always say that Shades got to his SB’s with Cowher’s players. Because that’s what the evidence indicates. With his own roster and staff he’s lucky to be .500.

This is exactly why most people say he won with Cowher's players, because as those players/staff moved on the success really went down hill, so the culture/leadership, I'm not sure there's any way to argue against that.

 

[Hypocycloids]

There are so many angles in this debate.
Not that I'm all in on any of these takes, or taking sides, but rather playing devils advocate here.

The year following Cowhers SB win, they went 8-8 and Cowher retired. Tomlin came in and whipped that 8-8 team back into shape!
So there's some credit that should be given to Tomlin there.

Yet the fact that Tomlin didn't win a SB with his players still remains a sticking point, and rightfully so.

EXCEPT for the strong possibility that we may have beaten Green Bay if it were not for both Mendenhalls and Bens costly mistakes.

Looking back at Cowhers SB win. I clearly recall the attitude of many Steeler fans. An emptiness about the win. Calls is favor of the Steelers that were questionable, a couple of big splash plays (Parkers run, Randal El to Hines flea flicker), that got us out of what appeared to be a Steeler team that was struggling. Ben was not very good.

This appears to be a case in which Cowher had a little luck on his side vs Seattle, while Tomlin had some bad luck.

Another angle to consider, and possibly a reach...Cowher may have come to the realization that he indeed had a lot of luck winning that Super Bowl. The following year he went 8-8. He arrived at the possibility that this team wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. He got his Super Bowl win. Best he call it quits while on top.

 

[Steeler Pride]

Another angle to consider, and possibly a reach...Cowher may have come to the realization that he indeed had a lot of luck winning that Super Bowl. The following year he went 8-8. He arrived at the possibility that this team wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. He got his Super Bowl win. Best he call it quits while on top.

That is some incredible revisionist history as to why that team went 8-8. Ben going face first into a car, an appendectomy, and a coach who found out his wife was dying probably had a little to do with that record more than a loss of talent or lack of coaching abilities. The team that you claim wasn't all that it was cracked up to be then turns around wins the AFCN the next year and wins a SB a year later. Tomlin = Barry Switzer, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[KCSTEELER]

I'm over Tomlin since The Tebowing but if I was going to defend him I'd point to the way Bill Belichick's team came in and played last night. Of course Tomlin can't coach against himself every week either.

If Tomlin could coach against himself every game would end in a 3-3 tie. He’s a snake oil salesman. I’m still waiting for him to unleash hell.

 

[Coryea]

There are so many angles in this debate.
Not that I'm all in on any of these takes, or taking sides, but rather playing devils advocate here.

The year following Cowhers SB win, they went 8-8 and Cowher retired. Tomlin came in and whipped that 8-8 team back into shape!
So there's some credit that should be given to Tomlin there.

Yet the fact that Tomlin didn't win a SB with his players still remains a sticking point, and rightfully so.

EXCEPT for the strong possibility that we may have beaten Green Bay if it were not for both Mendenhalls and Bens costly mistakes.

Looking back at Cowhers SB win. I clearly recall the attitude of many Steeler fans. An emptiness about the win. Calls is favor of the Steelers that were questionable, a couple of big splash plays (Parkers run, Randal El to Hines flea flicker), that got us out of what appeared to be a Steeler team that was struggling. Ben was not very good.

This appears to be a case in which Cowher had a little luck on his side vs Seattle, while Tomlin had some bad luck.

Another angle to consider, and possibly a reach...Cowher may have come to the realization that he indeed had a lot of luck winning that Super Bowl. The following year he went 8-8. He arrived at the possibility that this team wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. He got his Super Bowl win. Best he call it quits while on top.

ummm Ben going face first into a car in the off season and appendectomy before the season, then concussion during the season kind of had something to do with that 8-8 season.
Luck??? No mention of us holding the highest scoring offense in the NFL( Seattle) to 10 points. Yeah Ben didn't have a great Super Bowl, but that was expected, youngest QB to ever start one. The splash play by Parker, they set that up from the first half, that's not luck. That team was 7-2, then Ben and Marvel got hurt, how about Troy picking off Manning in that playoff game? Then the refs over turning it, no mention of that luck uh? He called it quits because they wouldn't match the contract of the guy he just beat in the Super Bowl.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

This is exactly why most people say he won with Cowher's players, because as those players/staff moved on the success really went down hill, so the culture/leadership, I'm not sure there's any way to argue against that.

Simple. The TFC on social media will tell you QBR.

 

[carbonsteel]

Has there ever been an NFL head coach that has been permitted to do so little, with so much, for so long ?

What does our ownership get out of permitting a coach to squander the talent of so many Hall of Fame candidates for so long, for the sake of 'accomplishing' a non-losing record ? Is there a Diversity Super Bowl that we've won that I'm unaware of ?

Why do good coaches leave here and poor coaches stay ? Why do we avoid good available coaches when they are available? Why do we allow it ?

The entire core of this franchise has slowly rotted to the dysfunctional mess that it currently is, just to keep this under performing head coach here.
And for what ?

 

[Badcat]

I don't disagree with any of that. Some of you may be mistaking what I am objecting too in this particular thread. That is the idea of having to explain or apologize for prior or present support of Tomlin. That was the theme of the original post. I have come to the conclusion as well that it is over for Tomlin here. He needs to go. But I will not apologize for my prior support for him. What's funny is if they would have moved on from Tomlin 5 years ago or whatever, I would have lost no sleep. When the Steelers win, the last thing I think about is the coach's performance, but I think I am consistent...when they lose the first thing I think about is again player performance. I know coaches are important, but I just don't think it is the most important thing. Perhaps that is part of the disonnect.

I was a huge Matt Canada fan after his Pitt Panthers put on an offensive clinic against my Nittany Lions. It was a great offense with James Connor running the rock. I fully stuck up for him here and I own it and **** anyone who wants to point a finger in my face and laugh.

 

[bermudasteel]

I still like Tomlin. I still think he can figure it out. I also wouldn’t be opposed to him retiring. I am also annoyed I have to defend my liking Tomlin and be called an apologist for it.

Bingo...my sentiments exactly.

Coach Tomlin's 'leash', if you will, has become rather short with the recent two loses (IMO) but I like him as a man and I think he's been a remarkable role model for young black men across the planet and country.

Here's to righting the ship and finishing strong...

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

So many discount or totally ignore the fact Cowher got to coach Ben in the rookie deal years without the Salary cap hit. Tomlin took full advantage of that as well his first few years then when it hit the depth collapsed. Tomlin in his zeal to win and this is not all good or bad but would never let the team truly have a down year. That is both to his credit and his biggest downfall. I know I have said this all before ad nauseum but it bears repeating. He certainly has some flaws in coaching as all do but his biggest flaw is also what makes him special in his own way the never give up never die attitude and the ability to squeeze enough wins out of a flawed but talented team to get to playoffs that then expose the flaws in the team. The only way to stay Super Bowl competitive in this era of QB salaries outside of the rookie window may well require having a down year or two to restock with picks when you have no cap room.

 

[diver]

Who the hell am I? I'm a guy discussing Tomlin on a message board, asswipe. Who the hell are you? If he doesn't care to explain his position, why would he post about it in the first place?

Of course. So like Phinnster pointed out, with you, it's the players' fault when they lose, yet Tomlin gets the credit when they win. We understand. And, by the way, your own personal "experience" has exactly zero bearing on the level of responsibility of an NFL head coach.

Ah, yes. There it is again -- Tomlin won that Super Bowl in '08. And since nothing else matters, and he has such wonderful ability as a head coach, it must be the players' fault that he hasn't won jack shlt since then.

Holy shiit! You do make me laugh. I don't think it is possible to misrepresent my positions more than you have in the last two paragraphs. I'd do better debating a telephone pole.

 

[topseed]

So many discount or totally ignore the fact Cowher got to coach Ben in the rookie deal years without the Salary cap hit. Tomlin took full advantage of that as well his first few years then when it hit the depth collapsed.

Actually, Ben was the highest-paid player in the entire NFL in 2008, the year the Steelers last won the Super Bowl. Or should I say, when Tomlin won.

 

[topseed]

Holy shiit! You do make me laugh. I don't think it is possible to misrepresent my positions more than you have in the last two paragraphs. I'd do better debating a telephone pole.

It's hard to represent somebody who covers their *** from every possible angle, so their "position" can never be questioned. That's you in a nutshell. Been like that for years. Carry on.

 

[stillwright]

no ben wasn't what he was those last couple season's, but in 2020 after elbow surgery he still had 33 TD's and completed 66% of his passes, and he threw plenty of passes that year that showed he had enough zip on his passes, the Oline was garbage because we ignored it for years in the draft, that was the biggest difference between that Ben and prime Ben, he couldn't drag that **** oline up and down the field anymore. We've been running this **** conservative offense no matter who the QB has been or who the OC is, this is Tomlin's crap offense.

Hell 2021 vs Cincy, we called a screen to Harris on like 4th and 10, Tomlin said we ran out of plays, WTF?

Great post.

 

[topseed]

Bingo...my sentiments exactly.

Coach Tomlin's 'leash', if you will, has become rather short with the recent two loses (IMO) but I like him as a man and I think he's been a remarkable role model for young black men across the planet and country.

Here's to righting the ship and finishing strong...

See, now there's an honest angle that we all can understand.

I'd love to see Tomlin continue to be a remarkable role model...somewhere else. His act has gotten stale in Pittsburgh. Close to rotten.