Are there any left?

[diver]

It's hard to represent somebody who covers their *** from every possible angle, so their "position" can never be questioned. That's you in a nutshell. Been like that for years. Carry on.

Oh c'mon. It's not covering my ***...I have no reason too. It's pointing out that these issues are a little more complicated than you "All on Tomlin" guys want to believe.

 

[topseed]

Oh c'mon. It's not covering my ***...I have no reason too. It's pointing out that these issues are a little more complicated than you "All on Tomlin" guys want to believe.

I'm not an "All on Tomlin" guy. I'm a "Mostly on Tomlin" guy. Of which there's been several on this board for quite some time now. Ron Burgundy and djfan immediately come to mind as a couple of the originals, among others, and our numbers have been strengthening as the years have gone by (been pissed away?).

The Tomlin apologists like yourself have challenged us all along the way, but the wait is finally over to see what Tomlin was able to do with HIS players, HIS staff, and HIS vision: This team is a f*cking shitshow.

We're tired of the Yeah, But Tomlin Won the Super Bowl in 2008...Would You Rather He Lost? bullshit. It hasn't aged well.

 

[Litos]

Bingo...my sentiments exactly.

Coach Tomlin's 'leash', if you will, has become rather short with the recent two loses (IMO) but I like him as a man and I think he's been a remarkable role model for young black men across the planet and country.

Here's to righting the ship and finishing strong...

he's beyond that point, he could have already improved the ship (keeping Flores, canning Canada earlier and finding a real Offensive Coordinator , not a yes man) and didn't. He dug his own grave

 

[diver]

I'm not an "All on Tomlin" guy. I'm a "Mostly on Tomlin" guy. Of which there's been several on this board for quite some time now. Ron Burgundy and djfan immediately come to mind as a couple of the originals, among others, and our numbers have been strengthening as the years have gone by (been pissed away?).

The Tomlin apologists like yourself have challenged us all along the way, but the wait is finally over to see what Tomlin was able to do with HIS players, HIS staff, and HIS vision: This team is a f*cking shitshow.

We're tired of the Yeah, But Tomlin Won the Super Bowl in 2008...Would You Rather He Lost? bullshit. It hasn't aged well.

Nah. The people most responsible for the results of a game are the people who actually play it. They are most responsible for the wins and the losses. It's common sense. In your view it's like making the bartender responsible for the drunk. If I had any say in the HOF, there would be very, very few coaches in there. It's about the players. But hell, don't believe me. Chuck Noll often said the same thing. Which is why he wouldn't do commercials and all that stuff. He would say when asked it's about the players, let them benefit.

I'm not apologizing for Tomlin. Don't have to.

I never said "Tomlin won the Super Bowl." I have stated Tomlin was the coach when they won it. As such, he gets the credit...for being the coach when they won it. Those are the facts. No one knows if Cowher or someone else would have. Aged well doesn't even make any sense as I have also clearly stated that doesn't mean he should have a lifetime job. I have never once argued for that. But it is a cheap shot trying to diminish what he accomplished with that team because the results since haven't that great.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Nah. The people most responsible for the results of a game are the people who actually play it. They are most responsible for the wins and the losses. It's common sense. In your view it's like making the bartender responsible for the drunk. If I had any say in the HOF, there would be very, very few coaches in there. It's about the players. But hell, don't believe me. Chuck Noll often said the same thing. Which is why he wouldn't do commercials and all that stuff. He would say when asked it's about the players, let them benefit.

If the Steelers had Kyle Shanahan running the offense for the past three years rather than Matt Canada with the exact same personnel, how do you think the offense would be performing?

 

[diver]

If the Steelers had Kyle Shanahan running the offense for the past three years rather than Matt Canada with the exact same personnel, how do you think the offense would be performing?

Probably better. I can't deny that. Shanahan has a nice system.

Would Matt Canada have looked better if he had Jalen Hurts, for example, at QB?

 

[SteelerFan448]

Probably better. I can't deny that. Shanahan has a nice system.

Would Matt Canada have looked better if he had Jalen Hurts, for example, at QB?

Not as good as Hurts looks with the Eagles because Canada has a proven track record of below average offenses as a coordinator. Players obviously matter, but coaching absolutely matters.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Probably better. I can't deny that. Shanahan has a nice system.

Would Matt Canada have looked better if he had Jalen Hurts, for example, at QB?

I don’t think O’Canada looked very good with a HOF quarterback who he wouldn’t let call audibles……………..

I guess my question would be if HURTS would get to call audibles or not ???


Salute the nation

 

[Greg Lloyd]

If Tomlin could coach against himself every game would end in a 3-3 tie. He’s a snake oil salesman. I’m still waiting for him to unleash hell.

Yea, that was the year the fraud began to get exposed; the year he promised to "unleash hell in December" and then went on to crap the bed the rest of the year. What a total buffoon, fraud.

 

[SanDiegoSteeler]

nothing works anymore.

 

[diver]

Not as good as Hurts looks with the Eagles because Canada has a proven track record of below average offenses as a coordinator. Players obviously matter, but coaching absolutely matters.

Really that's all I'm saying. Therefore I object to the "All on Tomlin" posts we see after every loss. But shiit, you point that out, well, you are a Tomlin apologist. Again, I have never said in any thread it is "All on the players."

I am all for them getting rid of Tomlin and seeing if someone else can get better performance out of these players. You can replace one guy and staff before you can replace 53 players. But dammit, these players gotta grow up and play to their supposed talent level regardless of who is coach.

 

[diver]

I don’t think O’Canada looked very good with a HOF quarterback who he wouldn’t let call audibles……………..

I guess my question would be if HURTS would get to call audibles or not ???


Salute the nation

See, now this audible thing. Here I'm sure I'll get called a Tomlin apologist for pointing this out. But I've watched a lot of Steeler football. Ben was great. But one of the things my buddies and I would chuckle about was when it was obvious Ben was calling an audible...he'd be calling out, lots of pointing, players shifting, announcers saying he's audibling, you'd get all excited, and then...pfft.

Should have they let him audible? Well sure. But maybe in his case from some of what I saw, it is a bit overrated. Running the hurry up is different. Did he audible off his own plays in the hurry up or just run them?

 

[SteelerFan448]

Really that's all I'm saying. Therefore I object to the "All on Tomlin" posts we see after every loss. But shiit, you point that out, well, you are a Tomlin apologist. Again, I have never said in any thread it is "All on the players."

I am all for them getting rid of Tomlin and seeing if someone else can get better performance out of these players. You can replace one guy and staff before you can replace 53 players. But dammit, these players gotta grow up and play to their supposed talent level regardless of who is coach.

I think it's because many of your posts come across as almost dismissing the impact of coaching. I think that's why some of the responses are of the Tomlin apologist type.

 

[diver]

I think it's because many of your posts come across as almost dismissing the impact of coaching. I think that's why some of the responses are of the Tomlin apologist type.

Maybe I do. But that has nothing to do with Tomlin. It is just my overall view of coaching. When the Steelers won it all the last time in '08, I think about Ben's throw to Santonio, Harrison's pick 6, Woodley's sack fumble and such. I don't really think one way or another about Tomlin, other than that he was the coach. Likewise, when they lost in '10 to the Packers, I think of Kemoeatu getting beat allowing Ben to have his arm hit, Ben missing a wide open Health Miller and throwing a pick, Mendenhalls fumble. I don't think much on Tomlin in that, either.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Maybe I do. But that has nothing to do with Tomlin. It is just my overall view of coaching. When the Steelers won it all the last time in '08, I think about Ben's throw to Santonio, Harrison's pick 6, Woodley's sack fumble and such. I don't really think one way or another about Tomlin, other than that he was the coach. Likewise, when they lost in '10 to the Packers, I think of Kemoeatu getting beat allowing Ben to have his arm hit, Ben missing a wide open Health Miller and throwing a pick, Mendenhalls fumble. I don't think much on Tomlin in that, either.

I look at the HS-level approach by the OC, just bashed by analysts who study film, that has completely hindered the development of a first-round QB along with his inability to make basic plays within that offense. The coaches playing Bud Dupree out of position and TJ Watt as well before flipping sides and having both have breakout seasons. The DC who's playing Minkah Fitzpatrick as an in-the-box safety rather than centerfield, basically eliminating his ability as a playmaker. Playing Kevin Dotson on the wrong side of the line only to have him go to the Rams and perform as one of the best guards in the league.

 

[diver]

If it is more about the coach or coaches than the players, why are fans all buying player jerseys?

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Actually, Ben was the highest-paid player in the entire NFL in 2008, the year the Steelers last won the Super Bowl. Or should I say, when Tomlin won.

Yes but the first year or two you still have residual depth. It gets worse every year that you keep winning. You don't fall off a cliff you tumble down the hill. See the Chiefs this year for an example.

 

[MTC]

Really that's all I'm saying. Therefore I object to the "All on Tomlin" posts we see after every loss. But shiit, you point that out, well, you are a Tomlin apologist. Again, I have never said in any thread it is "All on the players."

I am all for them getting rid of Tomlin and seeing if someone else can get better performance out of these players. You can replace one guy and staff before you can replace 53 players. But dammit, these players gotta grow up and play to their supposed talent level regardless of who is coach.

Agreed in part. Professional players are professional for a reason. They know the game. They know the ins and outs, strategies. That said to bring up Tomlin in his early years, he inherited a well coached team. Cerebral vets at all positions.

All Tomlin had to do was manage everything into place. The guys on roster knew what to do.

The more that roster retired or got traded elsewhere the more you saw of Tomlin’s lack of coaching.

 

[Coryea]

So many discount or totally ignore the fact Cowher got to coach Ben in the rookie deal years without the Salary cap hit. Tomlin took full advantage of that as well his first few years then when it hit the depth collapsed. Tomlin in his zeal to win and this is not all good or bad but would never let the team truly have a down year. That is both to his credit and his biggest downfall. I know I have said this all before ad nauseum but it bears repeating. He certainly has some flaws in coaching as all do but his biggest flaw is also what makes him special in his own way the never give up never die attitude and the ability to squeeze enough wins out of a flawed but talented team to get to playoffs that then expose the flaws in the team. The only way to stay Super Bowl competitive in this era of QB salaries outside of the rookie window may well require having a down year or two to restock with picks when you have no cap room.

Ok, so who did Cowher go out and sign in 04 or 05 with all that cap savings he was getting? Hell then why didn't they resign Ben's favorite target in Burress if they had all those savings?

 

[Drink IRON City]

See, now this audible thing. Here I'm sure I'll get called a Tomlin apologist for pointing this out. But I've watched a lot of Steeler football. Ben was great. But one of the things my buddies and I would chuckle about was when it was obvious Ben was calling an audible...he'd be calling out, lots of pointing, players shifting, announcers saying he's audibling, you'd get all excited, and then...pfft.

Should have they let him audible? Well sure. But maybe in his case from some of what I saw, it is a bit overrated. Running the hurry up is different. Did he audible off his own plays in the hurry up or just run them?

I hear what you are saying, but also deflecting. Ben has audibles successfully upon many occasions but that is a mute point.

O’Canada sucked and Tomlin was responsible for keeping him multiple seasons. Should have fired him mid 1st season or end of 1st season.

These are the things that are adding up to the negative when it comes to coaching by Coach Tomlin. Things beyond the players on the field.

I’m just calling it the way I see it.


Salute the nation

 

[Steeltime]

For those who opine "It's the players, not Tomlin," might I ask, then why pay a coach at all?? Just put a cardboard cutout on the sidelines and save millions of dollars.

The players don't change, right? So why not if it's "just the players" and not the coach?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

O’Canada sucked and Tomlin was responsible for keeping him multiple seasons. Should have fired him mid 1st season or end of 1st season.

Duh was in no way qualified to be an NFL coach.
He was hired for one reason, because he was Shades’ bud. Again, Shades’ record is one of hiring only people he knows or worked with before. That doesn’t get your the best people, Duh was merely the worst of the lot.

 

[jiminoh]

For those who opine "It's the players, not Tomlin," might I ask, then why pay a coach at all??

Because we need him to throw the red flag...

"I'm gonna throw it, I swear, I'm gonna do it!! Don't make me do it!!"

 

[Gildong Sack]

If there are "any left" I'll give you a microcosm view of Tomlin and the people he hires and their ability to train the players they bring in. Who remembers this incident? This video is aptly titled "The stupidest play of the last decade" No one told this guy if the ball goes out of bounds you get it at the 40 when they decided to make him a kick returner? Typical Tomlin team preparation...LOL..

 

[Steelmann]

According to an ESPN transcript of Roethlisberger’s comments, the Super Bowl-winning quarterback said he thinks the “tradition” of the Steelers could be over. Roethlisberger called out Tomlin for poor decisions in the Steelers’ upset loss to the 3-10 New England Patriots on Thursday Night Football:

“You can’t afford in the second half of games to burn silly timeouts and to not have them late in the game,” Roethlisberger said. “To me, that’s bad coaching.”
He added: “There’s some feel you have to have in those situations because timeouts can be so valuable, as we saw in this game. If we have one more timeout there, we get a completion, we can work the middle of the field and all you got to do is give Boz [Chris Boswell] a 60-yard chance.
Give him a chance and he’ll tie the game. I like my chances in overtime because they scored all their points early and the momentum had shifted.”

It’s heating up folks. The media is off and running. Jay Glazier who is Tomlin’s media friend has reported trade rumors.

Maybe it’s all click-bait/speculation,but it’s definitely taking on some fire.

From Pittsburgh to Washington?​

“I’m telling you, if Mike Tomlin was available, teams would be lining up, Glazer told Dave Helman of Fox Sports. Even if he’s not available yet, teams should be calling trying to trade for Mike Tomlin. Hey Washington, he’s from Virginia, perfect. I’m at least giving it a shot. I’m trying for it…you gotta swing away for a guy like that if he’s on the hot seat.