Brady retiring

[JMM]

I think it's time to ignore the troll, he has to live with his tainted trophies, we live with 6 rings to be fully proud of

Guessing the putz is looking for a love fest for his guy from Steeler Fans. He's going to have to look under the seat cushions, and past the moldy pizza crust.

 

[CoolieMan]

It seems odd that you would accuse me of applying conjecture when the entire premise of Brady / Belichick / Pats guilt is based solely on conjecture.

Goodell handed down sanctions .. Biased fan's take: that means they were guilty of cheating.
They were caught filming signals. Biased fan's take: this is proof of conspiracy, not a misunderstanding of what was allowed.
Goodell destroyed the tapes: Biased fan's take: this proves that he was boys with Kraft.
The Pats had the Steelers number for 20 years: Biased fan's take: yeah because they are cheaters.

please provide any other reason for the nfl to destroy the tapes?

IMO the tapes proved the cheating and showed it was enough to make a difference in the games

since this would tarnish the shield and possibly cause fans to lose trust in the integrity of the games

the owners went along with destroying evidence to protect their cash cow

 

[Slovan Sam]

Wrong. As they are exempt from Anti-Trust laws, they are independent in reviewing actions that violates the NFL charter and bylaws agreed to by ALL owners. If any player, coach, team administrator breach any bylaw or “Tarnish the Shield” the League has total oversight. Penalties reflects a violation, or in your term GUILT. Only if there is a criminal event, does a investigation incorporate outside League involvement.

Ike, I hope this helps to clear up any further confusion on your part.

The NFL couldn’t definitively prove that Tom Brady was guilty in Deflategate, but it didn’t have to​

Fans of the New England Patriots have what amounts to one lone defense when talking about Deflategate, specifically Tom Brady’s role in Deflategate: The Wells report didn’t uncover any concrete evidence that Brady had anything to do with those deflated footballs.

The Wells investigation was not a criminal trial, where a person has to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Instead, think of the Wells investigation as a civil trial, where only a preponderance of evidence is needed to determine guilt. In other words, if a jury (or, in this case, an NFL-appointed team of lawyers) thinks there’s a 50.1 percent chance you did it, they’re going to find you responsible. This is why the Wells report is couched with all the “more probable than not” language: It didn’t have a smoking gun, but a whole lot of everything else.

This is the standard the NFL has used when meting out discipline in such matters since the last time the Patriots found themselves in hot water: Spygate, after which NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell decided that too many teams were getting away with too many things because NFL investigators couldn’t find enough hard evidence. So he lowered the bar for guilt.

And that’s why Brady and/or the Patriots could be facing a significant penalty.

“But under league guidelines, the NFL doesn’t have to catch Brady in the act of ordering the deflation,” MMQB’s Peter King wrote Thursday morning. “Goodell and NFL executive vice president of football operations Troy Vincent, who is also reviewing the case for discipline, could rely on the ‘preponderance of the evidence’ that ‘the fact sought to be proved is more probable than not,’ according to the league’s policy on integrity of the game.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/05/07/the-nfl-couldnt-definitively-prove-that-tom-brady-was-guilty-in-deflategate-but-it-didnt-have-to/

 

[madinsomniac]

Ike, I hope this helps to clear up any further confusion on your part.

The NFL couldn’t definitively prove that Tom Brady was guilty in Deflategate, but it didn’t have to​

Fans of the New England Patriots have what amounts to one lone defense when talking about Deflategate, specifically Tom Brady’s role in Deflategate: The Wells report didn’t uncover any concrete evidence that Brady had anything to do with those deflated footballs.

The Wells investigation was not a criminal trial, where a person has to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Instead, think of the Wells investigation as a civil trial, where only a preponderance of evidence is needed to determine guilt. In other words, if a jury (or, in this case, an NFL-appointed team of lawyers) thinks there’s a 50.1 percent chance you did it, they’re going to find you responsible. This is why the Wells report is couched with all the “more probable than not” language: It didn’t have a smoking gun, but a whole lot of everything else.

This is the standard the NFL has used when meting out discipline in such matters since the last time the Patriots found themselves in hot water: Spygate, after which NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell decided that too many teams were getting away with too many things because NFL investigators couldn’t find enough hard evidence. So he lowered the bar for guilt.

And that’s why Brady and/or the Patriots could be facing a significant penalty.

“But under league guidelines, the NFL doesn’t have to catch Brady in the act of ordering the deflation,” MMQB’s Peter King wrote Thursday morning. “Goodell and NFL executive vice president of football operations Troy Vincent, who is also reviewing the case for discipline, could rely on the ‘preponderance of the evidence’ that ‘the fact sought to be proved is more probable than not,’ according to the league’s policy on integrity of the game.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/05/07/the-nfl-couldnt-definitively-prove-that-tom-brady-was-guilty-in-deflategate-but-it-didnt-have-to/

Yeah, because brady conveniently destroyed his phone .. something a totally innocent person does…

Cheater cheated and thats just how it is…

 

[madinsomniac]

And also Deflategate was just the owners finally taking their pound of flesh for what many felt was a snow job from kraft and goodell


Cheaters gonna cheat… live with it

 

[madinsomniac]

Also pats fans somehow believe that a preponderance of circumstantial evidence isnt proof of guilt

The dude who robbed me at gunpoint got 5 years because all the circumstantial evidence was too hard to explain away by coincidence …

The Pats are cheating cheaters and tainted as ****

 

[Slovan Sam]

please provide any other reason for the nfl to destroy the tapes?

IMO the tapes proved the cheating and showed it was enough to make a difference in the games

since this would tarnish the shield and possibly cause fans to lose trust in the integrity of the games

the owners went along with destroying evidence to protect their cash cow

Since I wasn't able to personally review the 'supposed' evidence, I prefer not to speculate on matters given that personal biases can often times overshadow the actual realities.

Goodell said he destroyed them because Belichick had admitted to not know that recording was a violation and because he was concerned about these tapes falling into competitor's hands. Since I wasn't part of the investigation, and I'm not aware of Goodell having an established record of lying, I have no reason not to take his explanation at face value.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Against league rules, but can you provide a citation proving that Brady / Belichick ordered that these balls be deflated, or even know they were deflated for that matter? Thanks in advance.

Oh who is in denial now? There empirical evidence via texts or voicemails identifying two Kraft employees “prepping balls“ for Marcia to receive autographed memorabilia from him. Something that had been routinely performed for years. However Brady refused to allow his phone to be reviewed securely by league investigators without his attorneys. Additionally Kraft’s franchise refused to allow the two employees to be interviewed. Why? When pressed on the matter, it was stated both were either suspended or removed from employment. Why? If they were innocent why disallow their statement or remove them from employment?

Yep - People who take extremely good care of themselves can maintain better health and fitness later in life. The fact that this can happen doesn't prove conspiracies.

Sure, just like in MLB when how long did it take to prove McGuire, Sosa, Clemens, Bonds, A-Rod, ad nauseam? Viable testing always is a few years behind the actual identity.

Why is Alex Guerrero the subject of ridicule in regards to previously claiming he was a MD (proven false), his ”initial“ method a cure for all ailments including cancer (also proven false) and that his “method“ as a psychobabble infomercial? He’s been investigated twice by the FTC as well as practicing as a PT without a license. After meeting Marcia it became TB12 Method, and until last year was HQ at Kraft’s Patriot Home office with one of Kraft’s various companies having investment capital. In fact, there was movement by the league and NFLPA to verify if Brady being a player employee and being paid for an outside business violated the salary cap calculation outlined in the CBA. No violation was indicated because Guerrero was part owner and not a employee (even though Kraft paid him to treat other Patriot players).

You can blow sunshine up your *** all day long thinking Brady is a victim to “everyone“ who doesn’t believe he isn’t one. But he has been involved with a tremendous amount of asterisks worthy events. Just like Belichick.

 

[Steeltime]

Goodell handed down sanctions .. Knowledgeable fan's take: that means they were guilty of cheating.

Yeah, that's kind of the way it works, genius.

They were caught filming signals. Knowledgeable fan's take: this is proof of conspiracy, not a misunderstanding of what was allowed.

The "misunderstanding" claim is the biggest, steaming pile of rancid dogshit this side of Goebbels. Only imbecile Patsy*** fans believe that stupid claim.

Matt Estrella, 26, a Patriots video assistant, was nabbed just before halftime of the Jets' 38-14 loss on opening day. He videotaped hand signals from the Jets' defensive coaches on the sideline, defying an edict from Goodell, who warned teams before the season that he wouldn't tolerate cheating. Several teams have suspected the Patriots of stealing signs. So did the Jets, thanks to Mangini.

"(The Jets) knew they did it," the person with knowledge of the situation said in an e-mail to the Daily News. "They caught the guy a year ago, but couldn't do anything about it. When Eric came, he said that's what they used to do. Bill is going to be (ticked) at Eric. He kissed and told."

New details came to light yesterday. The cameraman, wearing a team polo shirt under the league-mandated sideline photographer's vest, was stopped by security as he tried to enter the New England locker room before halftime, sources said. An animated discussion ensued, involving league security, Jets security and Patriots security.
The dispute, which occurred in the bowels of the stadium, lasted more than an hour, virtually the entire second half. At one point, it became so heated that New Jersey state troopers were summoned as a precaution, a source said. The Jets apparently were trying to confiscate the videotape, which wound up in the possession of NFL security. The tape was placed in a box, sealed and forwarded to the league.
"He looked scared to death," one source said of Estrella.
It's unclear if the Patriots had a chance to review the tape before it was seized, raising the question of whether it helped them in the game. They certainly played like they knew the Jets' strategy. In the second half, Tom Brady completed 10 of 11 passes for 138 yards and a touchdown.
"He seemed like he knew what we were doing," safety Kerry Rhodes said.
No video recording devices of any kind are permitted on the field, in the locker room or in the coaches' booth during a game, according to league rules.
Patriots owner Robert Kraft said yesterday it would be inappropriate to comment directly on the accusations, but he hinted that the Jets' actions may have stemmed from being envious of his team's success.
"When you're successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things," he told reporters at a charity appearance. "We like cheating. We're good at cheating. It's the only thing we are good at. I like fondling little boys. And cheating. I like playing with the private parts of little boys and then cheating while playing Chutes & Ladders with them because I like cheating. Fondling little boys and cheating, that's what I love."


The Jets declined comment on Kraft's bizarre rant, saying it was too creepy to merit a reply. The Jets also said, "It's a league matter."



Belichick, addressing the situation for the first time late Monday on his Boston radio show, acknowledged he was aware of the incident at the game. Beyond that, he provided little insight, saying, "It's a league thing. Whatever the deal is, which I don't even know the details of, a lot of it, we'll comply. I had no idea my personal assistant, Matt Estrella, was filming the Jets signals using my personal video camera, and using my sideline pass, and using my e-mail address to forward the film. I am surprised that my e-mail could accept the Jets films, since it had saved so goddamn much Steelers film, of which I also have no knowledge, at all. I mean, I'm the greatest coach ever to walk the earth according to my fanboys, but I seem not to know a single ******* thing going on with the team."

Goodell destroyed the tapes: Knowledgeable fan's take: this proves that he was boys with Kraft.

No, it shows that Goodfernothin' was hiding something.

The N.F.L. reacted swiftly to the spying scandal in September. Commissioner Roger Goodell promised on national television that there would be a full investigation of the New England Patriots’ covert filming of Jets defensive signals. He ordered the Patriots to send any videotapes filmed in violation of N.F.L. rules to the league office.

The tapes arrived sometime between Sept. 16, when Goodell said he had yet to receive them, and Sept. 20, when the N.F.L. announced all material from the investigation had been destroyed “to ensure a level playing field.” The league has not addressed the tapes since.

Two crisis-management experts used the same word - fishy - to describe the league’s handling of the situation, saying the destruction of the tapes raised questions about what they contained.

“The strategy is profoundly bad,” said Al Tortorella, the managing director of crisis management for Los Angeles-based Ogilvy Public Relations Worldwide. “I don’t know why they would destroy the tapes. That’s astounding. There’s no criminality here, but it sure doesn’t pass the smell test.”

Questions Linger About Why N.F.L. Destroyed Patriots’ Tapes (Published 2007)

Two crisis-management experts question the league’s handling of the Spygate situation, saying the destruction of the tapes raised questions about what they contained.

www.nytimes.com

Indeed.

The Pats had the Steelers number for 20 years: Knowledgeable fan's take: yeah because they are cheaters.

The Patriots are cheaters, caught and punished for cheating four times, you idiot. I presume you believe that they were caught every time they cheated? Since otherwise, we know they cheated 8, 12, 21, however many times.

 

[CoolieMan]

Since I wasn't able to personally review the 'supposed' evidence, I prefer not to speculate on matters given that personal biases can often times overshadow the actual realities.

Goodell said he destroyed them because Belichick had admitted to not know that recording was a violation and because he was concerned about these tapes falling into competitor's hands. Since I wasn't part of the investigation, and I'm not aware of Goodell having an established record of lying, I have no reason not to take his explanation at face value.

name any other time evidence has been destroyed like that...

that explanation was bullshit then and it is bullshit now

 

[Slovan Sam]

Also pats fans somehow believe that a preponderance of circumstantial evidence isnt proof of guilt

Actually, it's not just Pats fans that think preponderance of evidence isn't proof of guilt. Anyone who understands the law when proof beyond a reasonable doubt isn't required knows this. In a civil case, you only have to believe that it's more probable than not (50.1%) that something occurred. The NFL didn't have to be certain that Brady / Pats were guilty. They only had to conclude that there was a 50.1% chance or better that it happened. FAR from proving guilt.

 

[BLITZ]

Actually, it's not just Pats fans that think preponderance of evidence isn't proof of guilt. Anyone who understands the law when proof beyond a reasonable doubt isn't required knows this. In a civil case, you only have to believe that it's more probable than not (50.1%) that something occurred. The NFL didn't have to be certain that Brady / Pats were guilty. They only had to conclude that there was a 50.1% chance or better that it happened. FAR from proving guilt.

sooooooo again If the Pats were not guilty why not fight the 1st round draft pick loss?

 

[Djfan]

Dj - instead of requesting that a fellow fan be banned simply because he doesn't share the same feelings as you, maybe you can articulate what your feelings are exactly in an attempt to better support your position. For example, do you think Brady wasn't good? If so, are you able to support this assertion with facts?

My feelings are that you are arrogant, unteachable, and think you're correct when you are not. I would rather not have such folk on this board. There are a whole bunch of you logic-avoiding types over on www.bradycouldteachgodafewthings.com

 

[Steeltime]

My feelings are that you are arrogant, unteachable, and think you're correct when you are not. I would rather not have such folk on this board. There are a whole bunch of you logic-avoiding types over on www.bradycouldteachgodafewthings.com

"Can you cite a published peer-reviewed article supporting that claim, along with sworn statements in support?"
- Slovan Stupid

 

[CoolieMan]

his posts here are proof enough to support DJ's post

 

[Ike Kelly]

Whether I agree or disagree is irrelevant. The reality is, true guilt was never proven, nor does it have to be for sanctions to be imposed. Whether I agree or disagree doesn't change this, so I'm not sure of the relevance. Generally speaking, I think guilt should be proven prior to discipline being awarded. That was not the case in this instance, regardless of how much you may wish that it were.

Ah ha! but agreement or disagreement is relevant if you have conviction in your opinion.

But you are wrong if guilt wasn’t proven. If not, then why were there “sanctions”? Because there was enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. How much evidence, we won’t know because Goodell was protecting his BFF from probably having his coach gettimg the Death Penalty.

Guilt was proven that rules were broken based upon a reasonable doubt. This wasn’t a judicial court. It was an internal investigation as to whether by laws or rules were broken by a players, coaches or franchise entity. They were caught…red handed, I might add, by a former coach who participated with the HC while employed.

It seems odd that you would accuse me of applying conjecture when the entire premise of Brady / Belichick / Pats guilt is based solely on conjecture.

Goodell handed down sanctions .. Biased fan's take: that means they were guilty of cheating.
They were caught filming signals. Biased fan's take: this is proof of conspiracy, not a misunderstanding of what was allowed.
Goodell destroyed the tapes: Biased fan's take: this proves that he was boys with Kraft.
The Pats had the Steelers number for 20 years: Biased fan's take: yeah because they are cheaters.

Please, read why ”sanctions” were handed down by Goodell (not fans) without bias - the were considered violating League by-laws/rules AKA cheating.

You are saying yourself they were caught filming signals. That is a violation of League rules (as to how they were filming). So how is it a conspiracy? You can’t have it both ways.

Goodell destroyed the tapes because the evidence was significant, as it included evidence stretching several years prior. If a outside review of the evidence was made, would showcase the extreme the franchise was allowed to violate competitive fair play (One of the major By-Laws) and a black eye on the league that could have removed one of the primary foundations of the league to police themselves.

Please, Goodell and Kraft were joined at the hip as Kraft was the primary negotiator for the League with the networks. At that time the League had the largest TV contract in history.

Well it’s pretty obvious they had almost everyone’s number except Tom Coughlin’s.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Ike, I hope this helps to clear up any further confusion on your part.

The NFL couldn’t definitively prove that Tom Brady was guilty in Deflategate, but it didn’t have to​

Fans of the New England Patriots have what amounts to one lone defense when talking about Deflategate, specifically Tom Brady’s role in Deflategate: The Wells report didn’t uncover any concrete evidence that Brady had anything to do with those deflated footballs.

The Wells investigation was not a criminal trial, where a person has to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Instead, think of the Wells investigation as a civil trial, where only a preponderance of evidence is needed to determine guilt. In other words, if a jury (or, in this case, an NFL-appointed team of lawyers) thinks there’s a 50.1 percent chance you did it, they’re going to find you responsible. This is why the Wells report is couched with all the “more probable than not” language: It didn’t have a smoking gun, but a whole lot of everything else.

This is the standard the NFL has used when meting out discipline in such matters since the last time the Patriots found themselves in hot water: Spygate, after which NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell decided that too many teams were getting away with too many things because NFL investigators couldn’t find enough hard evidence. So he lowered the bar for guilt.

And that’s why Brady and/or the Patriots could be facing a significant penalty.

“But under league guidelines, the NFL doesn’t have to catch Brady in the act of ordering the deflation,” MMQB’s Peter King wrote Thursday morning. “Goodell and NFL executive vice president of football operations Troy Vincent, who is also reviewing the case for discipline, could rely on the ‘preponderance of the evidence’ that ‘the fact sought to be proved is more probable than not,’ according to the league’s policy on integrity of the game.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/05/07/the-nfl-couldnt-definitively-prove-that-tom-brady-was-guilty-in-deflategate-but-it-didnt-have-to/

A WaPo editorial…an opinion piece. Just like yours.

 

[JMM]

his posts here are proof enough to support DJ's post

 

[Slovan Sam]

My feelings are that you are arrogant, unteachable, and think you're correct when you are not. I would rather not have such folk on this board. There are a whole bunch of you logic-avoiding types over on www.bradycouldteachgodafewthings.com

Djfan -

Are you able to articulate what I have been incorrect about? I'd be curious to know and to have the opportunity to defend my position.

From my perspective, it almost sounds as if you are saying you would rather not have members here who base their assertions on facts? Is this correct? If so, what about fallacy do you enjoy exactly? Please advise.

 

[JMM]

Djfan -

Are you able to articulate what I have been incorrect about? I'd be curious to know and have the opportunity to defend my position.

From my perspective, it almost sound as if you are saying you would rather not have members here who base their assertion on facts? Is this correct? If so, what about fallacy do you enjoy exactly? Please advise.

Sammy, how long have you been a Steelers fan? Are you from the area?

 

[Slovan Sam]

Ah ha! but agreement or disagreement is relevant if you have conviction in your opinion.

Ok. You just made this up.

But you are wrong if guilt wasn’t proven. If not, then why were there “sanctions”? Because there was enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. How much evidence, we won’t know because Goodell was protecting his BFF from probably having his coach gettimg the Death Penalty.

For at least the 3rd time now, evidence beyond a reasonable doubt was not required in Spy Gate. It was solely based on a preponderance of the evidence and they only had to be 50.1% sure that the violation occurred. They didn't have to be proven guilty and they never were.

Guilt was proven that rules were broken based upon a reasonable doubt.

Ok. But you're making up stuff again.

This wasn’t a judicial court.

Finally, something that wasn't based on misguided opinions or lies.

It was an internal investigation as to whether by laws or rules were broken by a players, coaches or franchise entity. They were caught…red handed,

If Belichick conceding that he misunderstood the rules means "caught red handed", ok.

Goodell destroyed the tapes because the evidence was significant, as it included evidence stretching several years prior. If a outside review of the evidence was made, would showcase the extreme the franchise was allowed to violate competitive fair play (One of the major By-Laws) and a black eye on the league that could have removed one of the primary foundations of the league to police themselves.

More assertions that are based on biased opinions, not facts. Unless of course you personally reviewed the evidence.

 

[JMM]

Brady sucks...Goodell has the tapes to prove it...

 

[Slovan Sam]

ady sucks...Goodell has the tapes to prove it...

JMM - Just to help refresh your memory, below are the results of the Steelers / Pats games over the past decade.

2016 playoffs	Patriots 36–17	Gillette Stadium	Tied 15–15	AFC Championship Game. Last postseason meeting to date. Patriots surpass the Steelers for most Super Bowl appearances. Patriots win Super Bowl LI.
Season	Results	Location	Overall series	Notes
2010	Patriots 39–26	Heinz Field	Steelers 14–11	Steelers lose Super Bowl XLV.
2011	Steelers 25–17	Heinz Field	Steelers 15–11	Patriots lose Super Bowl XLVI.
2013	Patriots 55–31	Gillette Stadium	Steelers 15–12	Highest scoring game in the series.
2015	Patriots 28–21	Gillette Stadium	Steelers 15–13
2016	Patriots 27–16	Heinz Field	Steelers 15–14
2017	Patriots 27–24	Heinz Field	Patriots 16–15	Patriots take first lead in the series. In the closing seconds, Jesse James of the Steelers appeared to have scored a go-ahead touchdown that would have clinched the AFC's #1 seed, but after review, the call was overturned ruling that Jesse James didn't maintain control of the ball. Two plays later, Duron Harmon's interception of Ben Roethlisberger sealed the win for the Patriots, who would instead finish as the AFC's #1 seed. Patriots lose Super Bowl LII.
2018	Steelers 17–10	Heinz Field	Tied 16–16	Patriots win Super Bowl LIII.
2019	Patriots 33–3	Gillette Stadium	Patriots 17–16	Final start in the series for Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger.

 

[CoolieMan]

Jesse James caught that ball

 

[JMM]

JMM - Just to help refresh your memory, below are the results of the Steelers / Pats games over the past decade.

Season	Results	Location	Overall series	Notes
2016 playoffs	Patriots 36–17	Gillette Stadium	Tied 15–15	AFC Championship Game. Last postseason meeting to date. Patriots surpass the Steelers for most Super Bowl appearances. Patriots win Super Bowl LI.
2010	Patriots 39–26	Heinz Field	Steelers 14–11	Steelers lose Super Bowl XLV.
2011	Steelers 25–17	Heinz Field	Steelers 15–11	Patriots lose Super Bowl XLVI.
2013	Patriots 55–31	Gillette Stadium	Steelers 15–12	Highest scoring game in the series.
2015	Patriots 28–21	Gillette Stadium	Steelers 15–13
2016	Patriots 27–16	Heinz Field	Steelers 15–14
2017	Patriots 27–24	Heinz Field	Patriots 16–15	Patriots take first lead in the series. In the closing seconds, Jesse James of the Steelers appeared to have scored a go-ahead touchdown that would have clinched the AFC's #1 seed, but after review, the call was overturned ruling that Jesse James didn't maintain control of the ball. Two plays later, Duron Harmon's interception of Ben Roethlisberger sealed the win for the Patriots, who would instead finish as the AFC's #1 seed. Patriots lose Super Bowl LII.
2018	Steelers 17–10	Heinz Field	Tied 16–16	Patriots win Super Bowl LIII.
2019	Patriots 33–3	Gillette Stadium	Patriots 17–16	Final start in the series for Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger.

Don't give a ****. Your idol is a jagoff.