Charleston shooting.

[Spike]

In other words, polls show that people support the removal of the confederate flag 3:1.

some things will be forgotten along the way

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Never once did I say that there should be a law against flying a confederate flag. People should be free to make any statement they want... and that includes showing your support for the traitors that made war against American soldiers and against the flag that they, the Union troops, flew as they marched into battle.... (Hint... It's the one that still flies over my, and probably your, house today... The Stars & Stripes). My problem is with the fact that there are those that still want to fly the confederate flag. I do not, however, have a problem with their right to fly it. I think you misunderstood the sentiment in my comments.

Correct me if I am wrong then. In other words, you oppose these movements to remove the Confederate flag from state grounds, state flags, and for it being pulled out of stores where consumers can no longer purchase one?

 

[IndySteel]

Libtards love the ISIS flag.

 

[DBS1970]

So I guess it's safe to assume that you feel Abraham Lincoln should not have pushed Congress to adopt the 13th Ammendment abolishing the enslavement of an entire race of human beings. In your opinion, protecting the sovereignty of the states was more important than ending slavery. Correct me if I misunderstood you.

I have said this before and I guess I will have to say it again:

Slavery was evil.

Slavery was an abomination.

Slavery was however codified into law in the Constitution as well as the method of amending the Constitution and The Tyrant Lincoln was trying to abrogate that.

The Civil War was not about slavery though. It was about monied interests in the north, particularly factory owners in Illinois and New York, seeking closed markets. Slavery was already dying in 1860, mechanization was making slave labor economically unviable. A tractor and implements could do in a day what it took 100 slaves a week to do. And those northern factory owners could see that and they wanted southern planters to buy that equipment from them and not Europe. It was greed that sparked the civil war not high minded ideals of enlightened northerners seeking to chastise and enlighten evil racist southerners. Less than one percent of the population of the slave states even owned slaves.

 

[diver]

I just flat out disagree with the fact that slavery did not cause the Civil War. The theory has been advanced by Southern apologists that it wasn't about slavery.

All of the other issues could have been worked out. The United States, at it's core, is about compromise.

I just don't believe a war that went on for 4 years and cost hundreds of thousands of lives could have sustained itself on monied issues in the North or greed or whatever. There had to be a deeply emotional issue to sustain it. That issue was slavery.

 

[diver]

This thread has kind of gotten off track a bit.

Using a football reference, for years teams that have been unlucky in drafting the right QB turn over every stone to try to find one, most times failing. I remember the Rob Johnson debacle in Buffalo. They signed him to a huge deal after a few quarters of good play in Jacksonville.

This is how the Obama administration has handled things. Every incident they try to make a racial statement on. They have tried there best many times and failed. Now they think they have their QB. But it's gonna turn out to be Rob Johnson.

This idiot kid just wanted to shoot **** up. Sure, he invoked race, but I just think that was the convenient justification for shooting **** up. He had to make a statement. I think the more and more of this that comes out, that will be proven true.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I just flat out disagree with the fact that slavery did not cause the Civil War. The theory has been advanced by Southern apologists that it wasn't about slavery.

All of the other issues could have been worked out. The United States, at it's core, is about compromise.

I just don't believe a war that went on for 4 years and cost hundreds of thousands of lives could have sustained itself on monied issues in the North or greed or whatever. There had to be a deeply emotional issue to sustain it. That issue was slavery.

Sorry, but what you believe conflicts with actual History. You are suggesting that Southern Apologists have succeeded in re-writing history? All of those historians who have written about the Civil War from the North simply lost to those Southern apologists, accepted the South's narrative (despite living in the portion of the country that won the war), and have forever since kept their mouths shut about the "real truth?" Historians from Auburn, hypothetically, have silenced historians from MIT, Harvard and Yale? Come on brother

Let me ask you, if you were Abraham Lincoln (R), or a member of the North, then, or if you are a northerner now, which story would you prefer be written? A) We went to war to fight for the rights of enslaved African Americans, to abolish Slavery, or B) We went to war to protect our economic interests and force the South to buy our machinery.

Most would be JUMPING at the opportunity to say they fought for the more eloquent of the two issues. Yet history is written correctly, that it began around economics and secession. Slavery was a part of the mix, economically, and involving States Rights, but that's as far as it went until 1863.

Even Left-leaning PBS agrees. Nice little site with videos, btw: http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/causes-of-the-civil-war/

 

[IndySteel]

Lincoln woke up from a long bender and said "I did WHAT?!?!!!"

 

[Troglodyte]

I just don't believe a war that went on for 4 years and cost hundreds of thousands of lives could have sustained itself on monied issues in the North or greed or whatever. There had to be a deeply emotional issue to sustain it. That issue was slavery.

The South didn't want to enslave blacks because they had a passion for it. It was about cheap labor. So, yes, greed.

 

[Spike]

The Purge train is rolling - toot toot


Va. Gov. moves to strip Confederate flag from license plates

WASHINGTON — Virginia will begin the process to remove the Confederate flag from state-issued license plates

http://wtop.com/virginia/2015/06/va-gov-moves-to-strip-confederate-flag-from-license-plates/

 

[Sarge]

I will sure be happy once all the Confederate Flags are removed from everything. Racism will finally be solved.

 

[diver]

Sorry, but what you believe conflicts with actual History. You are suggesting that Southern Apologists have succeeded in re-writing history? All of those historians who have written about the Civil War from the North simply lost to those Southern apologists, accepted the South's narrative (despite living in the portion of the country that won the war), and have forever since kept their mouths shut about the "real truth?" Historians from Auburn, hypothetically, have silenced historians from MIT, Harvard and Yale? Come on brother

Let me ask you, if you were Abraham Lincoln (R), or a member of the North, then, or if you are a northerner now, which story would you prefer be written? A) We went to war to fight for the rights of enslaved African Americans, to abolish Slavery, or B) We went to war to protect our economic interests and force the South to buy our machinery.

Most would be JUMPING at the opportunity to say they fought for the more eloquent of the two issues. Yet history is written correctly, that it began around economics and secession. Slavery was a part of the mix, economically, and involving States Rights, but that's as far as it went until 1863.

Even Left-leaning PBS agrees. Nice little site with videos, btw: http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/causes-of-the-civil-war/

One's knowledge of history, since none of those were there, requires one to us common sense. There have been hundreds of books written on Gettysburg, for example. Each guy writing a book is looking for a different angle, his theory on the battle. Why write a new book if that isn't the case? Therefore, you have to read history, take in the different viewpoints and form your own opinions.

Factually, this country was formed and built for it's first 80 years on the idea of compromise. I will not buy the argument that some of the other issues you state could not have found a compromise. That was our genius and it failed us. In years since there have been plenty of other issues that have divided the nation, yet never caused a war. Issues similar to the ones you present. Yet no war. What was the one thing that stood out in those years, the thing you cannot escape? Slavery. The war would never have been fought over those other things. They would've been worked out, if not for the issue of slavery.

 

[Roy92040]

Not to worry Amazon.com is still selling rebel flags http://www.amazon.com/Confederate-Rebel-Flag-Printed-Polyester/dp/B000G2OYZE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435077528&sr=8-1&keywords=rebel+flags+for+sale

 

[diver]

Sorry, but what you believe conflicts with actual History. You are suggesting that Southern Apologists have succeeded in re-writing history? All of those historians who have written about the Civil War from the North simply lost to those Southern apologists, accepted the South's narrative (despite living in the portion of the country that won the war), and have forever since kept their mouths shut about the "real truth?" Historians from Auburn, hypothetically, have silenced historians from MIT, Harvard and Yale? Come on brother

Let me ask you, if you were Abraham Lincoln (R), or a member of the North, then, or if you are a northerner now, which story would you prefer be written? A) We went to war to fight for the rights of enslaved African Americans, to abolish Slavery, or B) We went to war to protect our economic interests and force the South to buy our machinery.

Most would be JUMPING at the opportunity to say they fought for the more eloquent of the two issues. Yet history is written correctly, that it began around economics and secession. Slavery was a part of the mix, economically, and involving States Rights, but that's as far as it went until 1863.

Even Left-leaning PBS agrees. Nice little site with videos, btw: http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/causes-of-the-civil-war/

Another thing, I have read credible historians who have stated that in the years immediately following the war there would have little argument to it's cause. Slavery. It began as the years progressed to get whitewashed into other things. To the point where you had Hollywood, hardly a bastion of conservative thought even in the 1930s, making a movie like 'Gone with the Wind" in which the slaves where shown as just loving working at Tara.

In no way am I saying the poor Rebel soldier was fighting for slavery or the poor Union one was fighting against. It was the people that got them into the fix they were in.

 

[Yinzerlyn]

Historians from Auburn, hypothetically, have silenced historians from MIT, Harvard and Yale? Come on brother

Hey now.....my brother is a history professor at Auburn.....you could have at least picked Bama to make fun of!!!!

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Factually, this country was formed and built for it's first 80 years on the idea of compromise. I will not buy the argument that some of the other issues you state could not have found a compromise. That was our genius and it failed us. In years since there have been plenty of other issues that have divided the nation, yet never caused a war. Issues similar to the ones you present. Yet no war. What was the one thing that stood out in those years, the thing you cannot escape? Slavery. The war would never have been fought over those other things. They would've been worked out, if not for the issue of slavery.

I couldn't disagree more, based on the facts we know. Secession hadn't happened before, or since.

Do you really believe that if Texas and Louisiana seceded from the Union today that there wouldn't be armed conflict?

Do you really think that if California and Oregon negotiated their own trade agreements with China and paid no tax monies back to our government on the transactions that ensued that our Government wouldn't forcibly put it to a stop?

Come on man

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Another thing, I have read credible historians who have stated that in the years immediately following the war there would have little argument to it's cause. Slavery. It began as the years progressed to get whitewashed into other things. To the point where you had Hollywood, hardly a bastion of conservative thought even in the 1930s, making a movie like 'Gone with the Wind" in which the slaves where shown as just loving working at Tara.

In no way am I saying the poor Rebel soldier was fighting for slavery or the poor Union one was fighting against. It was the people that got them into the fix they were in.

If this helps you sleep at night.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Baltimore and Ferguson aren't really comparable to Charleston. A police officer killing an unarmed person is not the same as a psychotic
killing individuals in a church.

It might surprise people, but I'm not sure Charleston was even racism. From my viewpoint the Charleston gunman has psychosis brought on by
low self esteem issues. He never got past the 9th grade and couldn't get or keep a job. He obviously was a defective human looking for a twisted
way to raise his self esteem. Most individuals in race supremacy organizations are low self esteem individuals looking to use their racial identification
to boost their self esteem by putting down the human attributes of others. Is that really racism or mental illness brought on by low self esteem?.

As for the confederate flag, it represents succession from the union and is a symbol that is anti-American flag. It isn't a racist symbol but rather
an anti-United States symbol. It took a United States to defeat Hitler and Communism and Americans should be proud of that and stand by the flag
that represents all 50 states. Congress should ban the Confederate flag from any state government usage. If you believe in free speech, allow the
commercial exploitation of the symbol, but ban it from state usage. Would we allow German government to fly a Nazi flag?

 

[21STEELERS21]

Baltimore and Ferguson aren't really comparable to Charleston. A police officer killing an unarmed person is not the same as a psychotic
killing individuals in a church.

It might surprise people, but I'm not sure Charleston was even racism. From my viewpoint the Charleston gunman has psychosis brought on by
low self esteem issues. He never got past the 9th grade and couldn't get or keep a job. He obviously was a defective human looking for a twisted
way to raise his self esteem. Most individuals in race supremacy organizations are low self esteem individuals looking to use their racial identification
to boost their self esteem by putting down the human attributes of others. Is that really racism or mental illness brought on by low self esteem?.

As for the confederate flag, it represents succession from the union and is a symbol that is anti-American flag. It isn't a racist symbol but rather
an anti-United States symbol. It took a United States to defeat Hitler and Communism and Americans should be proud of that and stand by the flag
that represents all 50 states. Congress should ban the Confederate flag from any state government usage. If you believe in free speech, allow the
commercial exploitation of the symbol, but ban it from state usage. Would we allow German government to fly a Nazi flag?

 

[Spike]

It looks more impressive if I combine them all together



S. Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley Calls for Removal of Confederate Flag From State Capital

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ch...-calls-removal-confederate-flag-state-n379801

--------------------------------

all aboard the appeasement train - elections coming up!


Republican National Committee joins call to remove Confederate flag

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...nfederate-flag

-----------------------------------


What this country needs is tighter flag control laws


Walmart to stop selling Confederate flag merchandise

(CNN)—Walmart, the country's largest retailer, will remove all Confederate flag merchandise from its stores, the company told CNN Monday.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politi...outh-carolina/

---------------------------------

the train is rolling, toot toot


Remove Confederate sign from Mississippi flag

JACKSON, Miss. (AP) — A top Mississippi lawmaker said Monday that the Confederate battle emblem is offensive and needs to be removed from the state flag.


http://bigstory.ap.org/article/935a...i-tennessee-debate-future-confederate-symbols

-----------------------------

The Purge train is rolling - toot toot


Va. Gov. moves to strip Confederate flag from license plates

WASHINGTON — Virginia will begin the process to remove the Confederate flag from state-issued license plates

http://wtop.com/virginia/2015/06/va-...icense-plates/


---------------------------------


Alllllllllll aboarrrrrrrrrrrrrd the train!



NASCAR backs moves on Confederate flag in wake of South Carolina church massacre

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. – NASCAR is backing South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley's call to remove the Confederate flag from the Statehouse grounds in the wake of a massacre at a Charleston church.

The motorsports series issued its statement Tuesday, one day after Haley said "the time has come" to remove the flag.

NASCAR bars the use of the flag, saying that while "freedom of expression is an inherent right of all citizens, we will continue to strive for an inclusive environment at our events."

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/0...urch-massacre/

------------------------


No southern rednecks allowed

 

[south dakota STEEL]

Better buy the flag now. could be worth something in a few....

 

[south dakota STEEL]

Amazed at how people blame a piece of cloth, or a book, or words for someones wrong doings. Society is ******* stupid. So are our supposed leaders.


oh look! a squirrel....

 

[Sarge]

Would we allow German government to fly a Nazi flag?

Why wouldn't we? Nothing we can do about it. Germany is a sovereign nation. They can fly whatever flag they want.

 

[Sarge]

Amazed at how people blame a piece of cloth, or a book, or words for someones wrong doings. Society is ******* stupid. So are our supposed leaders.


oh look! a squirrel....

It is our need to know why and lay blame. Had to be a flag or book or video game. No way that ****** is just completely deranged.

 

[IndySteel]

Blaming people for their own actions is racist.