Colbert or Tomlin whoever has the final say needs to go

[Super Dave]

Now on the topic at hand.

My understanding is that there is a 3 person committee that decides on the draft pick. Tomlin, Colblart, Art2

I think that lance zeirlin is the one who provided this insight.

Personally I believe we excel at drafting some positions (WR) and we have regressed on others, particularly on the defense LB DL. although we have improved on DL

I do not believe any of the 3 needs to go, I just believe they need to reassess who has been right, who has been wrong and weight their voting accordingly. I also believe we need to look at the scouts providing the info at certain positions who has been right, who has been wrong and adjust accordingly. It is all about results.

Charlie Batch is right.

 

[slashsteel]

Dave is spot on.

I have no magical ball to see who is making these horrible decisions. Playing declining players praying they can come back to form, keeping Adams when he was a clear liability, not bringing in Tate say after Blount's release. Lets wait for a injury to happen ! Ike and Polamalu have no business playing anymore. I loved them in their career. Still do. But saw their mediocre to bad play. And so did most of Steeler Nation.

With these decision makers for me it is some of the easy decisions that should have been made that weren't.

Ben coming back in when he was being evaluated for a concussion. At the very least that series he should have been out.

Three year a pattern, a pattern of head shaking WTFs.

Jarvis had enough obvious question marks to pass over.

Just plenty of examples. Blount etc...

I feel until some personnel changes are made, the Steelers will be good in spots, but not good enough.

For some fans that may be good enough, not this one.

 

[slashsteel]

Now on the topic at hand.

My understanding is that there is a 3 person committee that decides on the draft pick. Tomlin, Colblart, Art2

I think that lance zeirlin is the one who provided this insight.

Personally I believe we excel at drafting some positions (WR) and we have regressed on others, particularly on the defense LB DL. although we have improved on DL

I do not believe any of the 3 needs to go, I just believe they need to reassess who has been right, who has been wrong and weight their voting accordingly. I also believe we need to look at the scouts providing the info at certain positions who has been right, who has been wrong and adjust accordingly. It is all about results.

Charlie Batch is right.

I would be ok with finding the problem and fixing it, but is seems like reoccurring issues that perhaps can't be fixed without a change.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Given that the drafting and overall personnel changed the instant Tomlin arrived, it is clear that he has a huge say in the personnel moves. With that said, replace Colbert with a GM who actually has some power and a sound foundation in scouting and player development. I don't want a yes man or a guy who doesn't know his crap. I appreciate all that Colbert has done, but the draft no longer is producing the same quality as it once did (save me the Brown and Bell talk, that's two players in eight years...and yes, I know there are more good players than just those two). Beyond the draft, this was the first year that the Steelers used free agency and it was a near disaster.

Brad Wing - Nice camp body, but never brought in another option after Adam Podlesh was unable to compete due to a family situation.
Cody Wallace - Good depth.
Will Allen - Good depth.
Greg Warren - Dependable long snapper.
Mike Mitchell - Early, but looks to be a complete waste. Actually made people miss Ryan Clark. Seriously.
Cam Thomas - Sigh.
Lance Moore - There was a reason why he was a street free agent.
Arthur Moats - Good depth.
LeGarrette Blount - Good signing as far as talent goes, but didn't work out. Won't fault him for it.
Brice McCain - Good depth.
Darrius Heyward-Bey - Never expected him to be on the roster for the entire year after they signed him back in April.
Brett Keisel - It seemed like they were going to bring him back all along. Yes he would have taken away reps from young players, but could have been a good veteran presence.
James Harrison - With so little depth, again, maybe should have signed him sooner. However, sad the Steelers needed to rely on both of these guys.

On top of the free agents, he invested money in Suisham, Allen, Gilbert and Pouncey.

I was fine with the Pouncey deal, though the price tag was a high. Suisham I would have waited on, but he paid off. Allen fell off a cliff and that signing looks horrible and Gilbert may have been signed a year too soon, but both of those felt forced.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Can you make a Steeler Nation t-shirt with that? I'd buy one.

Me too. I like. Believe it or not.

 

[slashsteel]

Given that the drafting and overall personnel changed the instant Tomlin arrived, it is clear that he has a huge say in the personnel moves. With that said, replace Colbert with a GM who actually has some power and a sound foundation in scouting and player development. I don't want a yes man or a guy who doesn't know his crap. I appreciate all that Colbert has done, but the draft no longer is producing the same quality as it once did (save me the Brown and Bell talk, that's two players in eight years...and yes, I know there are more good players than just those two). Beyond the draft, this was the first year that the Steelers used free agency and it was a near disaster.

Brad Wing - Nice camp body, but never brought in another option after Adam Podlesh was unable to compete due to a family situation.
Cody Wallace - Good depth.
Will Allen - Good depth.
Greg Warren - Dependable long snapper.
Mike Mitchell - Early, but looks to be a complete waste. Actually made people miss Ryan Clark. Seriously.
Cam Thomas - Sigh.
Lance Moore - There was a reason why he was a street free agent.
Arthur Moats - Good depth.
LeGarrette Blount - Good signing as far as talent goes, but didn't work out. Won't fault him for it.
Brice McCain - Good depth.
Darrius Heyward-Bey - Never expected him to be on the roster for the entire year after they signed him back in April.
Brett Keisel - It seemed like they were going to bring him back all along. Yes he would have taken away reps from young players, but could have been a good veteran presence.
James Harrison - With so little depth, again, maybe should have signed him sooner. However, sad the Steelers needed to rely on both of these guys.

On top of the free agents, he invested money in Suisham, Allen, Gilbert and Pouncey.

I was fine with the Pouncey deal, though the price tag was a high. Suisham I would have waited on, but he paid off. Allen fell off a cliff and that signing looks horrible and Gilbert may have been signed a year too soon, but both of those felt forced.

on Moore he wasn't Cotch coming from a bad team but still productive, he was on a good team, and his play was declining. So two experienced WRs left and get replaced by two scrubs.

On the top teams they fill holes with above average players in free agency, not bottom feeding scrubs. One of the biggest flaws under this staff.

 

[Troglodyte]

I find it odd, or perhaps telling, that we acquired Heyward-Bey and Archer in the same year. When Oakland reached for Heyward-Bey the response was "Well, at least he's fast", The same goes for Archer. I'm not sure if any other NFL team was interested in Heyward-Bey this year. Who knows when Archer would have been drafted had the Steelers not taken him in the 3rd.

Maybe whoever is making these decisions is way too impressed with speed.

 

[slashsteel]

I find it odd, or perhaps telling, that we acquired Heyward-Bey and Archer in the same year. When Oakland reached for Heyward-Bey the response was "Well, at least he's fast", The same goes for Archer. I'm not sure if any other NFL team was interested in Heyward-Bey this year. Who knows when Archer would have been drafted had the Steelers not taken him in the 3rd.

Maybe whoever is making these decisions is way too impressed with speed.

exactly bad decision making. Looking for a gem in a pile of ****. Sure you can find one perhaps here and there. But bringing in players with better PEDIGREE;s would make more sense.

Ravens beat the Steelers because they are a better decision making team...............

 

[Super Dave]

Given that the drafting and overall personnel changed the instant Tomlin arrived, it is clear that he has a huge say in the personnel moves. With that said, replace Colbert with a GM who actually has some power and a sound foundation in scouting and player development. I don't want a yes man or a guy who doesn't know his crap. I appreciate all that Colbert has done, but the draft no longer is producing the same quality as it once did (save me the Brown and Bell talk, that's two players in eight years...and yes, I know there are more good players than just those two). Beyond the draft, this was the first year that the Steelers used free agency and it was a near disaster.

Brad Wing - Nice camp body, but never brought in another option after Adam Podlesh was unable to compete due to a family situation.
Cody Wallace - Good depth.
Will Allen - Good depth.
Greg Warren - Dependable long snapper.
Mike Mitchell - Early, but looks to be a complete waste. Actually made people miss Ryan Clark. Seriously.
Cam Thomas - Sigh.
Lance Moore - There was a reason why he was a street free agent.
Arthur Moats - Good depth.
LeGarrette Blount - Good signing as far as talent goes, but didn't work out. Won't fault him for it.
Brice McCain - Good depth.
Darrius Heyward-Bey - Never expected him to be on the roster for the entire year after they signed him back in April.
Brett Keisel - It seemed like they were going to bring him back all along. Yes he would have taken away reps from young players, but could have been a good veteran presence.
James Harrison - With so little depth, again, maybe should have signed him sooner. However, sad the Steelers needed to rely on both of these guys.

On top of the free agents, he invested money in Suisham, Allen, Gilbert and Pouncey.

I was fine with the Pouncey deal, though the price tag was a high. Suisham I would have waited on, but he paid off. Allen fell off a cliff and that signing looks horrible and Gilbert may have been signed a year too soon, but both of those felt forced.

Good thoughts.....but do not forget the ones that got away, specifically Al Woods, we signed Cam Thomas because we botched the Woods signing.......

 

[SteelerFan448]

Good thoughts.....but do not forget the ones that got away, specifically Al Woods, we signed Cam Thomas because we botched the Woods signing.......

They were stunned by that move. Then again, Thomas was signed to be a backup, yet the coaching staff decided to start him.

 

[Coryea]

I'm pretty sure no one said Cowher's drafts were all perfect, he had alot of ****** picks too, as do all coaches, but he had some damn good ones too.
A simple question, what area of the team has Tomlin improved since he took over?

I'm not even saying fire the guy, I was just answering the question in the topic of this thread.

 

[slashsteel]

Thomas another scrub, that shouldn't have been signed. Nothing pointed to him being a good addition prior to the signing.

Too many bad decisions, just too many to overcome..................

 

[slashsteel]

I'm pretty sure no one said Cowher's drafts were all perfect, he had alot of ****** picks too, as do all coaches, but he had some damn good ones too.
A simple question, what area of the team has Tomlin improved since he took over?

I'm not even saying fire the guy, I was just answering the question in the topic of this thread.

Maybe the WRs, but yeah thats his area of expertise............

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Maybe the WRs, but yeah thats his area of expertise............

I'd add RB too, but it took him 7 years to do it. Offensive rankings maybe.

 

[slashsteel]

I'd add RB too, but it took him 7 years to do it. Offensive rankings maybe.

With Bell that might have been Haley pushing for him? But the Blount decision making process knocked the thought process down for me.........

 

[Acereros]

Oh come now, it was never going to be any other way. You have to know that there were some posters that were sitting and waiting for this team to fall in the playoffs so that they could trot out the old "fire Tomlin", "Colbert must go" threads. There are others who at least have been consistent in their statements and did not disappear during the winning streak and I respect them. But, if you thought that a majority of the die hard "Tomlin is the debil" group were going to remain silent or were suddenly going to come to the other side if/when this team lost in the play offs .... well, that's unrealistic. There is no middle ground given or taken with some of these guys.

As far as last night, it was a playoff game and as a fan, the loss hurt. Offense, Defense, Special Teams and Coaching all led to that performance we saw last night and all are deserving of criticism. But, it was a playoff game that when we were 3-3 I didn't think I was going to see this year.

So that's OK then. Tomlin's chocking in the play-offs should be excused this time, because some didn't see the Steelers going in to the playoffs early in the season........

 

[Idioteque]

You know full well that you among others are the master of "saying it without saying it" to always leave yourself enough wiggle room to weasel out of any statement or comment. You could give seminars on how to do it and make millions. Like I said it's cute when you do the whole wide eyed, "Who Me???" routine.

Since I do it so often, there must be SOME example somewhere.

 

[Idioteque]

Do I have a quote? No. But is that the attitude exhibited by most that attack draft picks and blame Tomlin only for the pick? Yes.

Why do you think this?

I know this is your forte, and no I'm not going to get into a who's "package" is bigger contest with you.

Simmer down buddy. All I did was ask when this has happened. I asked because it's obvious you've just exaggerated "I hated picking Jarvis/Archer/Sweed/whomever" into some ridiculous mess of paranoia and what you want to see. As Super Dave pointed out.

I was simply pointing out an attitude that has been shown, whether I have a quote or not to your liking.

I only asked for one example of this constant psychological phenomenon you see day in, day out. Or at least some advanced degree in clinical psychology.

Let me also say again, I'm not defending Tomlin. Lastly, I have a strange feeling even if I had a specific quote that fit your criteria, it wouldn't matter to you. I was only making an observation, didn't think you'd feel personally attacked as one of said individuals.

I couldn't care less if you're talking about me. I assume you're not, because I've never once claimed Tomlin is solely responsible for drafting. Nor has anyone else. And when you throw a fit over some posters who disagree with some picks, shouting about some off-the-wall assumption you've made, it lowers the discourse level. Some of us discuss ****, rather than cheerlead exclusively.

Everyone on this team and in this organization is accountable, just saying, putting every draft pick that was wrong all on Tomlin is foolish, he plays a major role but nobody is exempt from blame.

I agree, but I don't think that happens.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

So that's OK then. Tomlin's chocking in the play-offs should be excused this time, because some didn't see the Steelers going in to the playoffs early in the season........

Maybe you missed my response in post #41 answered that very question from my perspective.

I get the snark/sarcasm in the "rousing success" comment. I understand what you're saying. No, the season wasn't a "rousing" success. It was successful though. Just not to the point where we would have liked it to be. Does that mean that no changes need to be made? You and I both know that they do. Where we may disagree is on what those changes should entail.

 

[mightyguru]

As it pertains to Colbert, I just do not think the drafting of Bell and Bryant should offset all the mistakes that have been made on the defensive side of the ball.

you got that right.

 

[Acereros]

Maybe you missed my response in post #41 answered that very question from my perspective.

I did see your reply in post 41, but I had already replied to your previous post.

So, what sort of changes would you like to see to help this 'once feared and respected' team go back to their glory days?

 

[NormalJake]

I'm all for getting rid of whoever convinced me that drinking tonight was a good idea. It was a terrible ******* idea.

I am for getting rid of that person also, he convinced me to drink as well &my head still hurts...not to mention the damn game.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I did see your reply in post 41, but I had already replied to your previous post.

So, what sort of changes would you like to see to help this 'once feared and respected' team go back to their glory days?

Personally, I'd like to see them ask DL to retire. Not because he isn't still a good DC, but because I think he's to rigid with his defensive philosophies. Anyone playing the Steelers can pretty much know what to expect as DL has done the same thing no matter what for years. Continuing with the defense, if it's not cap prohibitive, Mitchell, Cam Thomas, Troy and Ike need to go and they (scouts) better have been looking for replacements throughout the season. Oh, and the OLB position is a mess. In reality the major changes need to come on this side of the ball in terms of personnel and/or philosophy.

HC - Does Tomlin have 1 year left on his contract? If it's only one, I'm not sure I extend him before the season. I want to see what type of moves he advocates to fix the defense. I want to see if he keeps DL around and if so what they can present that makes me feel somewhat secure that they know what they need to fix in order to compete in today's nfl. i.e. "What's the plan Mike?".

Offense - Draft an OT, Gilbert sucks and Adams is worse. Get me Heath's replacement. He's been a warrior for this team, but the end is near.

Scouting: They may want to do a complete evaluation of their scouting department to see if they are actually scouting NFL players too. Because this year's crop of FAs were terrible.

Those are places I'd start.

What about you? Do have any ideas?

 

[diver]

I wonder if going to a 4-3 would be an option. They are struggling with OLB. The front 4 could be McCullers and McClendon at tackles, Heyward and Tuitt at ends. Shazier becomes an OLB, maybe Timmons the other OLB, and Williams Middle. I don't know. I'd explore it. They have to do something different on that side of the ball. Of all the plays that were frustrating last night, the one that got to me the most was when it was 20-15 and they got the Ravens to a 3rd and 13 and Blake gave up the first without any fight. The defense has just been played too long and everybody knows what is coming. That's fine if you have great talent, but they seem to be having trouble finding the talent at key spots.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I wonder if going to a 4-3 would be an option. They are struggling with OLB. The front 4 could be McCullers and McClendon at tackles, Heyward and Tuitt at ends. Shazier becomes an OLB, maybe Timmons the other OLB, and Williams Middle. I don't know. I'd explore it. They have to do something different on that side of the ball. Of all the plays that were frustrating last night, the one that got to me the most was when it was 20-15 and they got the Ravens to a 3rd and 13 and Blake gave up the first without any fight. The defense has just been played too long and everybody knows what is coming. That's fine if you have great talent, but they seem to be having trouble finding the talent at key spots.

Third and thirteen and you give the receivers a 15 yard cushion. WTH is that? On third and short, the DBs are not allowed to press the receivers at the line. Leads to too many quick slants for first downs. "Tackle the catch" has become a catch phrase meaning play passive football because we "live in our fears".