Congratulations Tiberius! I raise a cup for you.

[SCSteeler4life]

As distasteful as I find some of the political rhetoric at times (of course I'm guilty of partaking on occasion.....usually when Elfie pisses me off), I had a good laugh at this one. It's the stone truth isn't it? I wonder how many of the Hungarian Liberal protestors participated in therapeutic rage screaming at the sky following the elections?

Just like the dipshits that protest here, I bet half didn’t even vote.

 

[Tibs]

Whether you know it or not, this is what you guys on the right are applauding. No wonder Trump supporters have so much hot & sweaty man-love for Orban. Ronald Reagan turns in his grave.

A Democracy Disappears
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/04/andrew-sullivan-a-democracy-disappears.html

So now we know how you do it.

I mean how you turn a prosperous 21st-century liberal democracy into an illiberal one, and then into a de facto dictatorship. There are no tanks; no mass arrests of opposition politicians; no coups; no direct assaults on the rule of law; and no new totalizing ideology. There is, in fact, no moment where you can definitively say that the liberal democracy has ceased to exist. But in Hungary, an upstanding member of the European Union, liberal democracy is now dead, pining for the fjords, nailed to the perch, an unmistakably ex-democracy.

Last weekend’s reelection of Viktor Orbán, with a supermajority of his own party in parliament, was a watershed. Yascha Mounk explains why:

[Hungary] has now completed a process … that has mostly remained theoretical until now: It was once a liberal democracy. As Orbán undermined the rule of law, dismantled the separation of powers, and massively violated the rights of ethnic minorities, it turned into an illiberal democracy. Now, it is effectively a dictatorship with a thin electoral veneer.

The recipe is a familiar one by now. In a society where social mores, especially in the big cities, appear to be changing very fast, there is a classic reaction. More traditional voters in the heartland begin to feel left behind, and their long-held values spurned. At the same time, a wave of unlawful migrants, fleeing terror and deprivation, appear to threaten the demographic and cultural balance still further, and seem to be encouraged by international post-national entities such as the European Union. A leftist ruling party in disarray gives a right-wing demagogue an opening, and he seizes it. And so in 2010, Orbán was able to exploit a political crisis triggered by an imploding and scandal-ridden Socialist government, and, alongside coalition partners, win a supermajority for the right in parliament.

Once in power, that supermajority allowed Orbán to amend the constitution in 2011, reducing the number of seats in the parliament from 386 to 199, gerrymandering them brutally to shore up his party’s standing in future elections, barring gay marriage in perpetuity, and mandating that in election campaigns, state media would take precedence over independent sources. He also forced a wave of early retirements in the judiciary in order to pack the courts with loyalists.

As Mounk notes, Orbán also tapped into deep grievances rooted in Hungary’s loss of territory in the 20th century, by giving the vote to ethnic Hungarians in neighboring Romania and removing it from more culturally progressive expats. But it was in response to the migration crisis in 2015, that Orbán truly galvanized public opinion behind him. Hungary, as Paul Lendvai noted in The Atlantic, had been deluged with asylum claims: 174,000 in 2015 alone, the highest per capita in the EU. Orbán responded by spreading fears of an influx of terrorists and criminals, of a poisoning of Hungarian culture, and expressing visceral nationalist hostility to the diktats of the European Union. Added to all that, of course, was a generous salting of classic central European anti-Semitism. Voters especially in rural areas flocked to him.

He further shifted the public discourse by creating and advancing new media outlets that amplified his propaganda, while attacking, harassing, and undermining all the others. He erected a huge fence to keep Muslim immigrants out, and refused to accept any of the 50,000 refugees the EU wanted to settle in his country. His political allies began to get very rich, as crony capitalism spread. By last year, Orbán had turned George Soros into a version of 1984’s Emmanuel Goldstein — an “enemy of the state” — with billboards and endless speeches, demonizing the Jewish billionaire and philanthropist, and vowing to protect the nation from external, malignant forces.

It was a potent formula, especially when backed up by the rigging of the parliamentary seats. Last week, in a surge of voter turnout, Orban won almost 50 percent of the vote, but two-thirds of the seats, giving him another supermajority (this time without coalition partners) in parliament, with further chances to amend the constitution in his favor. His voters in the heartland swamped a majority for the opposition in Budapest. One of two remaining opposition newspapers, Magyar Nemzet, shut down on Wednesday after 80 years in print. Orbán had withdrawn all government advertising in it. Some wonder whether there will ever be a free election again.

If you find many of these themes familiar, you’ve been paying attention. In the middle of a reaction against massive social change and a wave of illegal immigration, a right-wing party decides to huff some populism. A charismatic figure emerges, defined by hostility to immigration, becomes an iconic figure, and even though he doesn’t win a majority of votes, comes to office. His party is further shored up by gerrymandering, giving it a structural advantage in gaining and keeping power, including a seven percentage-point head start in the House of Representatives. That party does what it can to further suppress the vote of its opponents, especially ethnic minorities, and focuses on packing the courts, even rupturing long-standing precedents to deny a president of the opposing party his right to fill a vacant Supreme Court seat.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Whether you know it or not, this is what you guys on the right are applauding. No wonder Trump supporters have so much hot & sweaty man-love for Orban. Ronald Reagan turns in his grave.

A Democracy Disappears
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/04/andrew-sullivan-a-democracy-disappears.html

Does this mean you're not staying in Hungary? Son of a *****....

https://media.makeameme.org/created/well-****.png

 

[Steelworth]

So that was pretty vague Tibs. Were there police detaining and assaulting protesters at this "march" you didn't have the time to go to? Are you living in a police state where people are imprisoned or killed for their religious or political beliefs?

And that article you posted "A Democracy Disappears", sorry, but I can't take anything seriously that delves into:

7 Of President Trump's Dictatorial Tendencies

*Then a video slide*

Openly propagandist media companies emerge, fake news surges, while the president uses the powers of his office to attack, delegitimize, and discredit other media sources, even to the point of threatening a company like Amazon. A mighty wall is proposed against immigrants on the border, alongside fears of a mass “invasion” from the South. Social conservatives are embraced tightly. The census is altered to ensure one party’s advantage in future district-drawing. Courts are disparaged and the justice system derided as rigged by political opponents.

The difference, of course, is that Orbán is an experienced politician, and knows exactly what he’s doing. Trump is a fool, an incompetent, and incapable of forming any kind of strategy, or sticking to one. The forces arrayed against the populist right, moreover, are much stronger in the U.S. than in Hungary; our institutions more robust; our culture much more diverse. Our democracy is far, far older.

Seriously, this was an article about Hungarian politics and they can't help themselves from Trump bashing? I'll say it again, not the biggest fan of Trump, but when I see "dictatorial" and our current President and The United States of America in the same sentence, I have to laugh. Maybe take a trip to a neighboring country that's actually oppressive and dictatorial, then get back with us.

 

[Tibs]

So that was pretty vague Tibs. Were there police detaining and assaulting protesters at this "march" you didn't have the time to go to? Are you living in a police state where people are imprisoned or killed for their religious or political beliefs? And that article you posted "A Democracy Disappears", sorry, but I can't take anything seriously that delves into: Seriously, this was an article about Hungarian politics and they can't help themselves from Trump bashing? I'll say it again, not the biggest fan of Trump, but when I see "dictatorial" and our current President and The United States of America in the same sentence, I have to laugh. Maybe take a trip to a neighboring country that's actually oppressive and dictatorial, then get back with us.

Amidst all your mindless babbling you perhaps inadvertently connected a few dots between the lie-based, fear-based presidency of Donald J. Trump and despots and demagogues in Central Europe and elsewhere like Viktor Orban, Erdogan in Turkey and yes, SN's very own cabbage patch doll, Vladimir Putin.

In hindsight, history will not be kind to Trump supporters, who evidently can't see three feet in front of their own noses. Constantly busy coming up with false narratives to protect a clearly half-baked President. Yeah, Trump is the victim here, we get it. /smh

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Amidst all your mindless babbling you perhaps inadvertently connected a few dots between the lie-based, fear-based presidency of Donald J. Trump and despots and demagogues in Central Europe and elsewhere like Viktor Orban, Erdogan in Turkey and yes, SN's very own cabbage patch doll, Vladimir Putin.

You wonder why you are loathed. You, of the "can everyone be nice here" posts of the past, so hypocritically behaves the opposite of what you seek. As I spanked you in the other thread, you are a living, breathing hypocrite.

That wasn't nice Tibs. And he didn't attack you personally. But you did in return. Again. As you're often prone to do. You can barely maintain common decorum here, like Blitzburgh, who wants Trump in front of a firing squad. Get up and go to work man. Pet the kitties. Take a break.

Don't ask again that we all treat other with respect. Really. It's unbecoming when you yourself act so childishly.

In hindsight, history will not be kind to Trump supporters, who evidently can't see three feet in front of their own noses.

Huh? What's the drink tonight? And feet in front of their noses? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, HUH??

Constantly busy coming up with false narratives to protect a clearly half-baked President.

That hasn't happened for decades for DemocRATS. Should we go through the endless, revolting list of Dems protected by concocted stories? SMH - indeed.

 

[IndySteel]

Amidst all your mindless babbling you perhaps inadvertently connected a few dots between the lie-based, fear-based presidency of Donald J. Trump and despots and demagogues in Central Europe and elsewhere like Viktor Orban, Erdogan in Turkey and yes, SN's very own cabbage patch doll, Vladimir Putin.

In hindsight, history will not be kind to Trump supporters, who evidently can't see three feet in front of their own noses. Constantly busy coming up with false narratives to protect a clearly half-baked President. Yeah, Trump is the victim here, we get it. /smh

Milk, cookies, CNN, warm blankie...cures what ailes ya.

 

[Tibs]

Get up and go to work

Milk, cookies, CNN, warm blankie...cures what ailes ya.

Batten down the hatches, oh, you legendary Trump apologists. I thought Trump would be a disaster, had no idea it would be this bad. No worries gents, everything will be clear in retrospect. And yes, all will be forgiven. You had no good reason to think you’d get duped like you did, cause you thought you were smart and had everything figured out. We’re all human, we make mistakes. It’s gonna be alright, just may take a little time to heal the wounds. Keep your heads up, you’ll make it through ok, I hope.

 

[Steeler]

Batten down the hatches, oh, you legendary Trump apologists. I thought Trump would be a disaster, had no idea it would be this bad. No worries gents, everything will be clear in retrospect. And yes, all will be forgiven. You had no good reason to think you’d get duped like you did, cause you thought you were smart and had everything figured out. We’re all human, we make mistakes. It’s gonna be alright, just may take a little time to heal the wounds. Keep your heads up, you’ll make it through ok, I hope.

WTF exactly it's SOOO bad about this presidency? Because YOU don't like him? Other than the excessive tweets, I don't have much of a problem with what he's done. **** of a lot better than O.
BUT, I went on with life. And voted the next go round.

 

[Spike]

Down with the globalist Muslim loving EU!


HUNGARY SAYS EU'S 'IRRESPONSIBLE' MIGRANT POLICY POSES THREAT TO JEWS

BUDAPEST - Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban's office said on Monday an "irresponsible" migration policy on the part of the European Union had stoked religious intolerance in western Europe that was threatening Jews there.

His office issued a statement a week after Orban was re-elected by a landslide to a third straight term with a fierce anti-immigrant campaign that vilified Hungarian-born, Jewish-American tycoon George Soros for promoting liberal open-door values in Hungary and elsewhere in central and eastern Europe.

"There is only one way to counter worryingly strengthening anti-Semitic phenomema...Europe must return to its values stemming from Judaeo-Christian traditions," Orban's office said

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Hunga...le-migrant-policy-poses-threat-to-Jews-549981

-------------------

No wonder the Soros controlled Jew hating lefties hate him

 

[Iron95]

Batten down the hatches, oh, you legendary Trump apologists. I thought Trump would be a disaster, had no idea it would be this bad. No worries gents, everything will be clear in retrospect. And yes, all will be forgiven. You had no good reason to think you’d get duped like you did, cause you thought you were smart and had everything figured out. We’re all human, we make mistakes. It’s gonna be alright, just may take a little time to heal the wounds. Keep your heads up, you’ll make it through ok, I hope.

Yea.....you are right..............A strong economy, low unemployment, cleaning up the drug trade, cleaning up the sex trade (sex slaves), securing the boarders, and a strong military is a "disaster"!

 

[DBS1970]

This thread is still comical to me.

Basically Hardcore socialists in Hungary are angry that they lost the election, and are pitching a fit because Orban is moving farther away from socialism. it's basically the same autistic screeching that the left here is doing because Trump one.

 

[deljzc]

I don't know enough about Hungary's Constitution to tell you if what Orban did was good or bad or even "legal".

I'm not a big fan of despots, left or right leaning, although they can be "used" by our government for overall good if our diplomacy is well played. And I'm not sure the U.S. should be in the business of worrying about every dictatorship around the globe or not. That is a whole different debate.

I do hope and I still believe that the elections in Hungary were legit. I think Orban and his party won fair and square (or at least as fair and square as possible in Eastern Block Europe). I hope the elections are really one person, one vote and all of them were counted.

After that, let Orban have at it. I can't say I don't like having SOME in the European Union on the right side of the spectrum to counteract massive European Socialism. I think it's healthy. But I'm not going to sit here and lie and say I LIKE Orban or think he's some gift to politics or the conservative cause.

 

[Tibs]

Well stated post del, thanks for that.

I do hope and I still believe that the elections in Hungary were legit. I think Orban and his party won fair and square (or at least as fair and square as possible in Eastern Block Europe). I hope the elections are really one person, one vote and all of them were counted.

Unfortunately the electoral process has been severely compromised, be it through gerrymandering voting districts, busing in pro-Orban voters from Ukraine and Romania, misuse of tax-payer funds running pro-Orban propaganda on tv, radio, print media 24/7, using government funds and facilities to push Orban campaign materials, completely marginalizing and silencing opposition politicians (next to zero airtime on pro-government state & private media), using false and misleading scaremongering tactics to confuse aging, under-informed electorate. And the list goes on.

My issues with Orban have nothing to do with the notion he's a conservative, right-wing politician. In fact I agree with you the EU needs conservative voices to offset the leftist majority. The problem is Orban is neither a conservative, nor a reasonable politician. He's nothing but a demagogue with a bad case of fat cat syndrome. And unfortunately the country bears the brunt of his misdeeds. As Orban and his cronies stuff their pockets with millions of EUR funds siphoned off construction projects - while driving fancy cars, building huge villas and flying around in private helicopters - the country's hospitals, schools and infrastructure are in morbid condition. Another point of contention is the full court press Orban has undertaken on the media; the last remaining opposition newspapers, tv and radio channels are being shuttered as we speak.

Not a good look for a country with such a rich history and so much promise. The fact some 400,000 young, college-aged Hungarians have left the country during Orban's tenure speaks for itself.

 

[Tibs]

No wonder the Soros controlled Jew hating lefties hate him

Not sure if anyone's been so wrong, so consistently on a particular subject on this board. Spike, it may shock you, but you're throwing your full support behind an openly anti-Semitic demagogue. Congratulations.

From an open letter to Angela Merkel published in Politico:
https://www.politico.eu/article/ang...lence-viktor-orban-hungarian-election-fidesz/

Since he was elected prime minister in 2010, Viktor Orbán has turned public broadcasting stations into propaganda outlets, forced the sale of private stations into the hands of his political allies and taken effective control over the most important courts in the land.

He has also massively impeded the work of the country’s NGOs and independent academic institutions, stuffed the country’s electoral commission with his own cronies and rewritten electoral rules to favor his political party, Fidesz. As a result, leading experts believe that the recent elections in Hungary were less than free and hardly fair.

Meanwhile, the Hungarian government has, over the past months, repeatedly fanned the flames of anti-Semitism. Orbán has used public funds for a mass propaganda campaign that suggested that a Jewish banker is the puppetmaster behind an international conspiracy to destroy Hungary’s Christian culture.

This silence makes you complicit. Your inaction has effectively made you an ally to anti-democratic and anti-Semitic forces.

Speaking at a campaign rally in Budapest, he went even further, implicitly equating Jews with enemies of the Hungarian nation. “We are fighting an enemy who is different from us,” he said. “This enemy hides rather than operating out in the open; he is crafty rather than forthright; base rather than honest; has loyalty to foreigners rather than compatriots; speculates with money rather than believing in work; and, lacking his own homeland, feels he owns the whole world.”

Leading political scientists are convinced that the survival of Hungarian democracy is now acutely imperiled; some even believe that it has already been effectively dismantled. And yet, you as German chancellor have so far failed to condemn either Orbán’s anti-Semitic rhetoric or his concerted attacks on democratic institutions.

Worse, the party you lead remains allied in the European Parliament with Orbán’s political party; though the MEPs of the CDU have consistently helped to legitimize Orbán, you have never called for them to change course.

This silence makes you complicit. Your inaction has effectively made you an ally to anti-democratic and anti-Semitic forces.

If religious minorities, including Jews, are to feel safe in Europe, they need to know that the Continent’s most important political leaders would never sell them out. But how can German Jews take their government’s opposition to anti-Semitism seriously when the country’s ruling party counts outright anti-Semites among its closest allies in the European Parliament — and a chancellor who repeatedly pays lip service to the importance of Jewish life in Germany does not even dare to condemn their outrageous rhetoric?

The price that Europe will have to pay for the failure to stand up to Orbán is also much higher than you seem to realize. The European Union is founded on values including democracy, the rule of law and respect for human rights. By allowing the Hungarian government to destroy democratic institutions and to demonize minorities with impunity, the EU risks turning into little more than a regional trade bloc devoid of common values.

Other aspiring autocrats will take Orbán’s success as a sign that they can dismantle national democracy within the EU, and the rot will spread. And without these common values, the mutual trust that underpins the entire structure of EU governance could gradually collapse.

You know from your own experience what it means to live in a country without free speech or meaningful elections. Throughout your distinguished career in public life, you have been admirably forthright about the crimes of the Third Reich and the dangers of anti-Semitism. Your evident abhorrence for dictatorship helps to explain why you have long commanded great respect, both in your own country and around the world.

Your shameful silence about Hungary is now rapidly undermining that respect. We are well aware that it is, for many reasons, politically expedient for you to ignore what is happening in Hungary. But the survival of democracy and the safety of European Jews should never be treated as a mere matter of political expediency.

And so the only minimally honorable course of action that remains open to you at this late stage is to condemn Orbán’s attack on democratic values and to call on the European People’s Party to expel Fidesz.

 

[Spike]

LOL

I've been RIGHT about EVERYTHING!


Winning!


Soros foundations to quit Hungary amid political hostility

BUDAPEST (Reuters) - George Soros' Open Society Foundations will close their office in Budapest and move their eastern European operations to Berlin, Austria's Die Presse newspaper reported on Thursday.

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has blamed Soros, a Hungarian-born U.S. financier, for a host of ills and pushed through legislation cracking down on non-governmental organizations called the "Stop Soros" laws which drew international criticism.

The Hungarian news web site 444.hu said the Open Society Foundations office would shut by Aug. 31 and move first to Vienna then on to Berlin.

Reuters was not been able to immediately reach the Open Society Foundations either in Budapest or New York.

Orban, a self-styled champion of what he calls an "illiberal democracy", has long been at odds with Soros' network of NGO's which promote liberal values around the world.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/soros-foundations-quit-hungary-amid-political-hostility-185724850.html

 

[Tibs]

Yes, this happened. The Central European University, the most modern and finest in the nation, will soon follow, rumored to be relocating to Vienna. Along with the fact two newspapers and a radio station have shut down and five independent judges resigned from the higher courts today. Orban's suffocating grip on the nation tightens, while the mass exodus of young Hungarians to western Europe continues unabated. And Spike applauds with glee. Sad to see you side with anti-Semites, despots and dictators. Really says a lot about your frame of mind right now.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

That’s hilarious, his tak9ng his ball and going home. What a *****. The liberal way , when you lose , whine and ***** , or in this case just quit.

 

[Tibs]

That’s hilarious, his tak9ng his ball and going home. What a *****. The liberal way , when you lose , whine and ***** , or in this case just quit.

That's your world view, one deeply seeped in Soros conspiracies. The reality on the ground is different. Forcing newspapers to close and NGO's like this one to consider shutting down is no good thing, regardless of your disdain for George Soros. Not in former-communist Hungary, ruled by the Soviet Union for forty years. Forty years of state censorship and party apparatchiks running the damn country.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

Soros is a Jew killer..

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Soros and his OSF are anti-American Marxist pieces of ****.

 

[Tibs]

Another week, another protest. Tens of thousands marching peacefully, filling the streets of Budapest. Looks like people aren't too thrilled Orban's flushing the country down the toilet.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Another week, another protest. Tens of thousands marching peacefully, filling the streets of Budapest. Looks like people aren't too thrilled Orban's flushing the country down the toilet.

Tens of thousands.

::::YAWN:::

It will have the same effect that 99% of Marches on D.C. have.

None.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

When conservatives get elected, liberals call them fascists. When Marxists get elected, conservatives call them Marxists.

 

[IndySteel]

I knew Hungary had one triggered snowflake with a massive affliction of Trump Derrangement Syndrome. I did not know that Hungary had so many more. Good for that country that those fuckups are in the vast minority.