Covid Vaccine

[Superman]

FFS, the unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die. The vaccine prevents (STOPS) 10/11 people from dying. You idiot.

source?

 

[Troglodyte]

LMAO. Name another vaccine, any vaccine, that allowed this many deaths.

I'll wait.

I see you quickly dropped the previous question.

It prevents deaths, Tim. Do the math. Tens of thousands in Washington state alone. You don’t understand what you’re looking at.

 

[Troglodyte]

source?

The Washington State documentary we’re discussing. Pay attention!

 

[Superman]

The Washington State documentary we’re discussing. Pay attention!

source?

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I see you quickly dropped the previous question.

It prevents deaths, Tim. Do the math. Tens of thousands in Washington state alone. You don’t understand what you’re looking at.

Correction it PREVENTED deaths for a period of time, and then quickly lost efficacy. Following boosters have been shown in studies to only briefly if at all rejuvenate that benefit then quickly fade and make you MORE susceptible to the newer variants with a higher likelihood of hospitalization than the unvaccinated for these newer variants. So you were correct for a period of time and then the gains disappear and become negatives. Fauci himself is on video, long before they were approved, warning this could be a possible outcome of these mRNA vaccines. That you cling to the original numbers and totally refuse to acknowledge the current trends is quite indicative of your partisan religion. I WAS a supporter of the vaccines, I was vaccinated and now wish I hadn't been.

 

[Confluence]

Much better odds than if you’re in the 10% who account for 55% of the deaths. It’s not 50/50 odds. It doesn’t mean that 46% of all unvaccinated died. Less than half of all deaths are in 90% of the population. More than half are in the 10% of the population who have being unvaccinated in common. Which means the rate of death is far, far greater in unvaccinated people.if the rates were equal you’d have 10% of the deaths in 10% of the people and 90% of the deaths in 90% of the people.
Is it a great effectiveness rate compared to many other vaccines? No. But it is somewhat effective in preventing severe illness and death.

Do you have the data series that breaks this out by time, or are you comparing the data from 2020/21 when few had the shot and the great many deaths were necessarily among those not with the Covid shot?

 

[Confluence]

If 45% of all COVID deaths are among “vaccinated” people, I wouldn’t call that a great promotion at all. Seems like you have about a 50/50 chance. Most people wouldn’t consider that to be great odds.

don't forget that all who died before the shots became wildly available were necessarily unvaxxed and included all the old, frail, fat and whatever folks with multiple comorbities

 

[Confluence]

LMAO. Name another vaccine, any vaccine, that allowed this many deaths.

I'll wait.

Trick question!!!

That would not be a vaccine, silly.

It would be just like the flu shot though....

 

[Confluence]

They are dying at a lower rate than vaccinated people are. Is it a wonder drug? Hell no. Useless? Not that either.

Do you have any data for this? Seems untrue, since most have had the Covid shot

 

[Confluence]

Did anyone hear that there was big news coming from FDA today?

 

[Superman]

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

It prevents deaths, Tim.

Round and round. Once again...3,700 families in Washington say you're wrong. Tens of thousands have died after being jabbed. Maybe hundreds.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Did anyone hear that there was big news coming from FDA today?

Nope. Why, what's up?

 

[oneforthebus]

Do you have any data for this? Seems untrue, since most have had the Covid shot

I am going by the data Tim posted.

 

[oneforthebus]

You're wrong. If you paid attention to this thread with Floggy and I, you'd understand the WA State data.

When he first posted the data in Sept 2021, 26% of the population was not vaccinated.

You're also overlooking the fact that this data begins in Feb 2021. It's a cumulative running total. In Feb 2021, MOST Washingtonians weren't vaccinated.

Those deaths are not in 9.7% of the population. They are in a varying % of the population.

I did the painstaking work of analyzing each report for 4 months calculating the differences between reports. Which is how WA state should be posting the data. The way they post the data is highly misleading.

I'm just responding to the chart you posted.

 

[oneforthebus]

Do you have the data series that breaks this out by time, or are you comparing the data from 2020/21 when few had the shot and the great many deaths were necessarily among those not with the Covid shot?

I'm simply replying to the data Tim posted. Which looks like pretty good data for reduction in death rate.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

This idiot couldn't possibly know what he is talking about.

 

[oneforthebus]

Once again, 10% didn't account for 55% of the deaths. You don't understand the WA state data.

Go back to the previous page. See the links to my previous posts back to 2021 on the WA state data. The data is cumulative rolling data from Feb 2021 (the beginning of vaccination) to today.

If WA State wanted to be honest with her citizens, she would publish 'current' month to month data in addition to the cumulative data. They do not. You also can't go to their website and find past reports either (intentional).

When you do the math and analyze the month to month data, you get a dirtier picture.

The WA State data includes those wonderful first 6 months when the shots actually worked. It heavily skews the cumulative total. The month to month data shows a worsening story. The unvaccinated numbers get better and better - cases, hospitalizations, deaths. The vaccinated numbers get much worse. The overall % of the population vaccinated weighs in, but the month to month data shows you the worsening trend. You can see if if you analyze it properly.

I'm not going through all of your old posts Tim. I'm simply replying to the chart you posted. If you're saying the chart you posted is wrong or outdated, alrighty then.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I'm just responding to the chart you posted.

And I'm pointing out your claim is false that 10% of the people are driving the deaths. The news is in the "charts" that have been posted here since 2021. And the real data is the month to month data one has to manually count.

That chart, when taken statically, includes 5 or 6 months of the first wave of vaccinations - when the shots actually temporarily worked. That data is still in there. That data skews the total chart if you take it at a moment in time.

If the data were presented covering time periods (as I calculated on the last page or so), you'd see a fully different story. When I posted just the data from Sep 2021 to Jan 2023, it's a far different picture. And, back in September 2021, unvaxxed people were still well above 25%.

 

[oneforthebus]

And I'm pointing out your claim is false that 10% of the people are driving the deaths. The news is in the "charts" that have been posted here since 2021. And the real data is the month to month data one has to manually count.

That chart, when taken statically, includes 5 or 6 months of the first wave of vaccinations - when the shots actually temporarily worked. That data is still in there. That data skews the total chart if you take it at a moment in time.

If the data were presented covering time periods (as I calculated on the last page or so), you'd see a fully different story. When I posted just the data from Sep 2021 to Jan 2023, it's a far different picture. And, back in September 2021, unvaxxed people were still well above 25%.

Ok so you're saying you posted a false or outdated chart then. Got it.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I'm not going through all of your old posts Tim. I'm simply replying to the chart you posted. If you're saying the chart you posted is wrong or outdated, alrighty then.

I'm not saying the chart is wrong or outdated. See my prior post.

10% of people didn't drive the majority of deaths.

The majority of deaths happened back when the unvaccinated population was also much larger.

Again, cumulative data from Feb 21 to today gives you a skewed picture.

 

[oneforthebus]

I'm not saying the chart is wrong or outdated. See my prior post.

10% of people didn't drive the majority of deaths.

The majority of deaths happened back when the unvaccinated population was also much larger.

Again, cumulative data from Feb 21 to today gives you a skewed picture.

So why did you post it trying to argue that it shows something terrible when it doesn't?

According to the chart you posted, the vaccines significantly reduced the rate of death. Whether it's cumulative or not it's still a reduction.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Ok so you're saying you posted a false or outdated chart then. Got it.

Nope LOL. You're making my point. I'm saying Floggy posted misleading data. That's why I've been deciphering it since 2021 to tell the true story. Thank you for supporting my position that Flog posting this WA state data misleads. Exactly my point.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

So why did you post it trying to argue that it shows something terrible when it doesn't?

Because you haven't been tracking the debate between he and I. It began with Badcat's post. Floggy told him he wasn't entitled to his own facts and posted the WA State data again. Which in fact proved Badcat's point.

And the data and charts do tell a bad story. Again if you track it month to month.

If you don't want to go back and read the month to month analyses, then the chat between you and I is pointless. You cannot look at that chart to get a current state of the union. I've said since day one the WA state data, as represented, is highly misleading. The trend month to month is what matters. And that trend shows the vaccinated not being as protected as we are told they are being. The trend worsens month to month.

 

[oneforthebus]

Nope LOL. You're making my point. I'm saying Floggy posted misleading data. That's why I've been deciphering it since 2021 to tell the true story. Thank you for supporting my position that Flog posting this WA state data misleads. Exactly my point.

No, actually you posted it saying "See? 44% of deaths were in the vaccinated". As if that's a terrible statistic. But when 90% of people are vaccinated it's actually a pretty good statistic. Means that less than half the deaths were in the overwhelming majority of people who are vaccinated.. More than half the deaths were in a tiny fraction who are not. That shows effectiveness at preventing deaths, though certainly not 100% effectiveness.