Covid Vaccine

[oneforthebus]

Let me repeat. I've never. Not once. Ever. Disagreed that the death rate among the vaxxed v the unvaxxed is different.

I have said that over time it will diminish and perhaps swing in the other direction. Which it is doing.

As evidenced by your inability to grasp that 10% of people are NOT driving all of the death numbers you see on those charts.

Let me ask you some quick questions. We can make this simple.

In June of 2021, were 90% of Washingtonians Vaccinated?
How many people died of Covid in 2022 v 2021 in WA state?

You continue to point to the charts and say "See! 10% of people drove all the deaths" while failing to realize the fallacy of the "CUMULATIVE" data skewing the results.

Let me repost. You are not understanding this data OFTB:

I’ve already responded to that and you’re just completely ignoring it.

Once again, as the percentage of people who are vaccinated increases, yes of course the share of deaths in that group will increase. As the percentage of people who are unvaccinated decreases, yes of course the share of deaths among that group will decrease. Smaller number of people means smaller cohort in which to have a share of deaths. If one person out of a million was unvaccinated and that one person didn’t die, we could say 100% of unvaccinated people didn’t die. And it would mean exactly nothing.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

If everyone was vaccinated, the share of deaths among the unvaccinated would be 0%.

Captain Obvious award. That however is not the case.

Re...read....this.

This is the operative data. Starting in early October 2021 (after the first 6 months that is STILL included in those charts):

October 2021: vaxxed people represented 29% of all deaths. Today they are 56% of all deaths - a 27% increase
October 2021 unvaxed people represented 71% of all deaths. Today they are 44% - a 27% decrease

During the same period the unvaxxed population decreased from 25.5% down to 9.7%. A 15.8% change.

If you told me the vaccination status in Washington state changed by 27%....there would be an argument.

Conversely, if no one was vaccinated the share of deaths in the unvaccinated would be 100%. Neither of those statistics are very meaningful. The rate of death within each group is what matters.

You continue to not look at the trends. Posted. Here. For you. To review.

Month to month analysis. The data is crystal clear.

October 21 to Dec 31 2022 - WA state data. It's as clear as seeing the sun on a cloudless day.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

No, I’m not.

Yeah. You are. I'm sorry, but you are.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I understand perfectly. You don’t seem to understand that even broken down by months it doesn’t say what you are claiming it says.

Broken down month to month shows exactly what I have said it does. Over time, the vaccines efficacy waning is on display and more and more people who took these vaccines get infected, get very very sick, and die. At increasing rates.

You yourself said you weren't going to go back and read the analysis I've offered.

A bit difficult to have a discussion then, right?

 

[oneforthebus]

Broken down month to month shows exactly what I have said it does. Over time, the vaccines efficacy waning is on display and more and more people who took these vaccines get infected, get very very sick, and die. At increasing rates.

You yourself said you weren't going to go back and read the analysis I've offered.

A bit difficult to have a discussion then, right?

Show me the data that shows the death RATE among unvaccinated people is falling faster than the death RATE in vaccinated people, not the share of deaths in an ever shrinking percentage of the population. The death RATE.
You can’t because that data doesn’t exist.

 

[oneforthebus]

Captain Obvious award. That however is not the case.

Re...read....this.





You continue to not look at the trends. Posted. Here. For you. To review.

Month to month analysis. The data is crystal clear.

October 21 to Dec 31 2022 - WA state data. It's as clear as seeing the sun on a cloudless day.

Again, the “trend” you are showing is that ever smaller numbers of people are unvaccinated and therefore the share of deaths in unvaccinated people is going down. Because there are a whole lot less of them than there were at first.

 

[Confluence]

No, I’m not.

Yeah, you are. You know the cumulative number includes overcounting, perhaps substantially, and say you are using Tim's data presentation. You know that the shots and the boosters have almost no efficacy, or even negative efficacy, and that this has been the case for at least several months, if not the past year++, since Omicron.
If I am still wrong, and you are not being deliberately obtuse, then please do the actual math on that data to demonstrate your point.

 

[oneforthebus]

The death rate in the unvaccinated is going down of course, because it was extraordinarily high. Due to natural immunity and the lesser virulence of the variants. But unvaccinated people are still dying at a higher rate than vaccinated people. By a lot. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~50+

How do death rates from COVID-19 differ between people who are vaccinated and those who are not?

To understand how the pandemic is evolving, it’s crucial to know how death rates from COVID-19 are affected by vaccination status.

ourworldindata.org

 

[Confluence]

Here is a nice chart:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-confirmed-deaths-of-covid-19-per-million-people-vs-gdp-per-capita?xScale=linear&yScale=linear

 

[oneforthebus]

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/?amp=true

 

[oneforthebus]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/12/21/fact-check-unvaccinated-still-much-more-likely-die-covid-19/10923335002/

 

[oneforthebus]

Yeah, you are. You know the cumulative number includes overcounting, perhaps substantially, and say you are using Tim's data presentation. You know that the shots and the boosters have almost no efficacy, or even negative efficacy, and that this has been the case for at least several months, if not the past year++, since Omicron.
If I am still wrong, and you are not being deliberately obtuse, then please do the actual math on that data to demonstrate your point.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covidvaccine-nejm-study/fact-check-vaccine-effectiveness-study-does-not-show-negative-immunity-or-harm-to-the-immune-system-idUSL1N30N1GB

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Show me the data that shows the death RATE among unvaccinated people is falling faster than the death RATE in vaccinated people, not the share of deaths in an ever shrinking percentage of the population. The death RATE.
You can’t because that data doesn’t exist.

I literally just did.

The vaccines are NOT stopping the vaccinated from dying. The data is right there.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Again, the “trend” you are showing is that ever smaller numbers of people are unvaccinated and therefore the share of deaths in unvaccinated people is going down. Because there are a whole lot less of them than there were at first.

The trend I show shows that after the vaccines have waned, more and more vaccinated people by an ever growing percentage are catching Covid, getting seriously ill from Covid, and dying from Covid.

Those numbers don't lie. No matter how much you say "but but but more people are vaccinated."

It is plainly evident.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

The death rate in the unvaccinated is going down of course, because it was extraordinarily high. Due to natural immunity and the lesser virulence of the variants. But unvaccinated people are still dying at a higher rate than vaccinated people. By a lot. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~50+

How do death rates from COVID-19 differ between people who are vaccinated and those who are not?

To understand how the pandemic is evolving, it’s crucial to know how death rates from COVID-19 are affected by vaccination status.

ourworldindata.org

Ain't no one arguing that. The % of unvaccinated dying due to Covid is dwindling.

What you and Flog will NOT concede is that the vaccinated are dying at an ever-increasing rate.

 

[Confluence]

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covidvaccine-nejm-study/fact-check-vaccine-effectiveness-study-does-not-show-negative-immunity-or-harm-to-the-immune-system-idUSL1N30N1GB

The fact checkers for Reuters, lol, are payed by the same boss who is in the Board of Directors at Pfizer.

Can you not see how they have boxed you into following their messaging, even though "research" clearly shows the opposite?

 

[Superman]

shouldnt the unvaxxed already be dead at this point?
i mean, this is the absolute most worst ever disease to crawl across the planet.

RIP, Tibs

 

[IndySteel]

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

More wonderful vaccine news. The shots damage your kidneys.

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/urgent-a-big-new-zealand-study-reveals

Drawing on a national database of over four million people, researchers in New Zealand have found a strong association between Pfizer’s mRNA Covid shot and kidney injuries.

In the three weeks after a mRNA jab, the risk of acute kidney injury rose 60 percent, the researchers found. They reported almost 1,800 extra cases - the equivalent of over 100,000 extra cases of kidney injury in the United States.

The finding was posted as a “preprint” in The Lancet’s database on Friday, Jan. 20. It is the third signal from a large government-managed database linking the Pfizer’s mRNA shots to serious side effects in only the last six weeks.

STUDY ===> https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4329970

The authors did not define “acute kidney injury,” a term that can cover anything from relatively benign changes on laboratory tests to a serious loss of renal function.

Still, the finding is yet another signal of the potential cardiovascular risks of the mRNAs. The kidneys essentially function as filters for the blood, and renal injuries often result from reduced blood flow to the kidneys.

The researchers also found elevated rates of heart inflammation, blood clots, and platelet damage in the weeks after one or both of the shots. In all, they found a statistical link between the Pfizer shot for four of the 12 conditions they examined.

The finding is particularly strong because the researchers did not have to depend on voluntary reporting. Instead, they compared New Zealand’s national health records to its national database of people over five who received the vaccine. Just over 4 million New Zealanders, including 95 percent of adults and teenagers, received the shots, providing a large pool to track.

The researchers then compared the number of “adverse events” they found to historical background rates.

In addition, New Zealand had relatively low rates of Covid for most of the period during which people received the Pfizer jabs, so Covid itself cannot be blamed for the excess injuries.

 

[Confluence]

Please watch this MIT Prof talk about mRNA shots:

 

[Superman]

More wonderful vaccine news. The shots damage your kidneys.

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/urgent-a-big-new-zealand-study-reveals

Drawing on a national database of over four million people, researchers in New Zealand have found a strong association between Pfizer’s mRNA Covid shot and kidney injuries.

In the three weeks after a mRNA jab, the risk of acute kidney injury rose 60 percent, the researchers found. They reported almost 1,800 extra cases - the equivalent of over 100,000 extra cases of kidney injury in the United States.

The finding was posted as a “preprint” in The Lancet’s database on Friday, Jan. 20. It is the third signal from a large government-managed database linking the Pfizer’s mRNA shots to serious side effects in only the last six weeks.

STUDY ===> https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4329970

The authors did not define “acute kidney injury,” a term that can cover anything from relatively benign changes on laboratory tests to a serious loss of renal function.

Still, the finding is yet another signal of the potential cardiovascular risks of the mRNAs. The kidneys essentially function as filters for the blood, and renal injuries often result from reduced blood flow to the kidneys.

The researchers also found elevated rates of heart inflammation, blood clots, and platelet damage in the weeks after one or both of the shots. In all, they found a statistical link between the Pfizer shot for four of the 12 conditions they examined.

The finding is particularly strong because the researchers did not have to depend on voluntary reporting. Instead, they compared New Zealand’s national health records to its national database of people over five who received the vaccine. Just over 4 million New Zealanders, including 95 percent of adults and teenagers, received the shots, providing a large pool to track.

The researchers then compared the number of “adverse events” they found to historical background rates.

In addition, New Zealand had relatively low rates of Covid for most of the period during which people received the Pfizer jabs, so Covid itself cannot be blamed for the excess injuries.

"Quite obviously that depends on which hemisphere you stand in. New Zealand is in the southern hemisphere, thus those people is be standing upside down. The gravitational pull on their kidneys and bladder are different than we in the northern hemisphere feel. It's SCIENCE!"
/Flog

 

[ZonaBurgh]

"Quite obviously that depends on which hemisphere you stand in. New Zealand is in the southern hemisphere, thus those people is be standing upside down. The gravitational pull on their kidneys and bladder are different than we in the northern hemisphere feel. It's SCIENCE!"
/Flog

Unless of course, if you're from Guam.

 

[steel dino]

Great find JMM!

Great cast!
Literally ahead of their time!

 

[oneforthebus]

shouldnt the unvaxxed already be dead at this point?
i mean, this is the absolute most worst ever disease to crawl across the planet.

RIP, Tibs

No, as I’ve agreed over and over again this is a relatively mild illness in most young healthy people without risk factors. As I’ve agreed a gazillion times these vaccines certainly aren’t perfectly effective by any means. They do reduce the risk of severe illness and death. A risk that is decreasing on its own for a variety of other reasons too. Yet there remains a significant disparity in rates of death between vaccinated and unvaccinated people. But of course any data to that effect that doesn’t come from some right wing conspiracy theory substack is scoffed at here so I won’t bother again.

 

[oneforthebus]

The fact checkers for Reuters, lol, are payed by the same boss who is in the Board of Directors at Pfizer.

Can you not see how they have boxed you into following their messaging, even though "research" clearly shows the opposite?

Right, don’t bother reading any of the studies linked in the article when you can just knee jerk dismiss the source.