Covid Vaccine

[Confluence]

There is nothing I disagree with here. We faced a pandemic of a novel virus and there was a lot we got wrong. That’s completely understandable. Many do not want to admit that their “side” is wrong about anything. It should never have been politicized the way it has been. Both sides are to blame for that in my opinion.

Hey, wonderful!

How about the group effort on behalf of society actually owns up to a full review of all actions, what went right, what went wrong, and where all the money spent went? I mean, that would seem like the very least that any responsible entity pretending to have the best interests of the population would do, right?
A simple accounting of governmental expenditures, enumerated costs of policy decisions, etc. should be happening openly in a free society where liberty was encroached upon.
That would actually lead to a scientific learning, with economic lessons for future decision making.
Those who made "big decisions" that cost $ Billions and lives should openly rate the effectiveness of those decisions.
Where is any of that accountability?

 

[Superman]

one death, CDC advises against using this.
how interestingly coinkydink

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-tells-consumers-stop-using-125605472.html

 

[Troglodyte]

You seriously are not capable of comprehending the charts and the data.

This is rich, see below.

The vaccination rate in WA State increased every month. That 10% figure of unvaccinated people isn't static. It evolved.

On March 17, 2021, WA state was 13% vaxed.
On March 17, 2021, WA state had suffered 5,152 deaths.

If you were capable of understanding the graph, you would have noted it is for the time period 2/1/21-1/7/23 ONLY. Deaths prior to that period aren’t included. And so what if they were? Your claim is the vaccine is ineffective, so why should it matter? It seems that you’re complaining that many of the unvaccinated never had the chance to get vaccinated.

Did 10% of the unvaxxed population drive those deaths? Nope, because only 13% of the population was vaxed.

Stick with me.

At the beginning of October, WA was 74.5% vaxed.
At the beginning of October, WA had a total of 8,102 deaths.

And if the vaccine was ineffective, 74.5% of the deaths would have been among the vaccinated. They were not.

From March 17 to October 1, there were a total of 2,950 deaths.
What was the % of the population that was unvaxed during that period of time? Was it 13% or 74.5%?

It was neither. The vaccination rate changed. It evolved.

Again. So what? If the vaccine is ineffective, 61.5% of the people moving into the vaccinated demographic should have resulted in a similar increase in deaths in that demographic and less deaths in the unvaccinated demographic.

That chart literally is not saying that 10% of the population, which is unvaccinated, drove those deaths.

To understand the impact of vaccinations, you HAVE to analyze the data day to day or week to week or month to month. Including the first 6 months of the data skews the results.

10% of the population that is unvaccinated did not drive all of those deaths because the population wasn't static at 10% since Feb 21. Comprende?

Yes, I do. YOU do NOT. Static or not, the numerator is included in the denominator. You can’t explain the disproportionate share of deaths among the unvaccinated.

 

[Troglodyte]

Bull ******* ****.
If this were actually true, then there would be corresponding and horrible death tolls in shithole countries around the globe that did not have access to this new class of wonder drug......but that did not happen, did it? This means that these stats are very flawed, but unfortunately you cannot think critically, and only give credence to that which backs your paymaster's worldview.

https://apnews.com/article/health-india-coronavirus-8788a4dadc2103ec30f40111dec92f15

 

[Sarge]

Should people whose lives could be saved by taking them be scared into not taking them by a bunch of lies? No.

Should people have been scared INTO taking them by a bunch of lies? No, but that's what happened. Every day we watched the death counts and heard that this was the most deadly disease since the black plague. We were basically told it was a death sentence if you caught it. Now, three years later, we know it was bullshit. Admissions of over counting. Admissions the vaccine isn't very good. Hell, people are still double masking while standing alone in their front yard with no human souls within 500 feet. Based on lies. The scientific community earned every bit of skepticism they get these days. While all of this lying was going on they could have stepped up and stopped it. Instead, they joined in. **** every one of them for the lives they destroyed.

 

[Sarge]

Show me vaccine that saved more lives.

Make sure you thank Trump for that.

 

[Confluence]

https://apnews.com/article/health-india-coronavirus-8788a4dadc2103ec30f40111dec92f15

Dipshit. Please provide actual stats, not hyperbolic media reports; its like you somehow benefit from continual dis-information.

Here is the first chart I found, with India at the bottom, demonstrating your poor attempt to use shoddy journalism to misrepresent reality:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths

You will notice that India, the country you inexplicably chose, demonstrates my point precisely, both about the lack of covid deaths and your ****** up understanding of same.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

When anti-vax sites twist and distort and misrepresent data and the authors of the studies that produce that data are quoted as saying “that is not the correct interpretation of the data” I believe them.

Which doesn't cover the dozen or so Reuters and AP and Politifact and other "fact checks" you provide...that come from...MSM.

Exactly not what you described above.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Wow Robert Kennedy’s rabid anti-vax group suing the FDA . Color me shocked.

Congratulations, you've been awarded 6 months free membership here at SN for being the first poster in 2023 to use the phrase "Anti-Vax" more than 150 times!​

I’m sure this is not a publicity stunt at all.

Another theory from the person who only researches and deals in facts.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

If you were capable of understanding the graph, you would have noted it is for the time period 2/1/21-1/7/23 ONLY. Deaths prior to that period aren’t included. And so what if they were? Your claim is the vaccine is ineffective, so why should it matter? It seems that you’re complaining that many of the unvaccinated never had the chance to get vaccinated.

OH good lord, we know that the graph is at a point in time. But it represents CUMULATIVE data. As you JUST said, it represents all deaths from Feb 2021 to Jan 7 2023. All of the deaths for 15-16 months SINCE the vaccines started.

Do you not see the difference between these 2 charts? You keep saying that 9.7% of people drove "11x the deaths" of the unvaccinated. You can only make that statement if those unvaccinated people were ALWAYS 9.7% of the population. They were not. Compare the two graphs.

And if the vaccine was ineffective, 74.5% of the deaths would have been among the vaccinated. They were not.

You're changing the argument and misconstruing, once again, the data. This historical beat down of your position began when you put stakes in the ground that the vaccines were 92% effective, you parroted the "get vaxed you won't get Covid" talking points, and you touted the vaccines would prevent death.

This WA state data shows, month to month, continual waning and continual ineffectiveness of the vaccines.

Go read...again.
https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-866401
https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-872088
https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-901203
https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-873049

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

one death, CDC advises against using this.
how interestingly coinkydink

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-tells-consumers-stop-using-125605472.html

Those aren't politically-protected drugs, so.

 

[oneforthebus]

Which doesn't cover the dozen or so Reuters and AP and Politifact and other "fact checks" you provide...that come from...MSM.

Exactly not what you described above.

So is your suggestion that the quotes from actual scientists who conducted the studies contained in those fact checks are all made up? If so why haven't they come out and said "Reuters lied and misquoted me. The vaccines really are dangerous."? Are they "in on it" or do they just not care about people dying too? All paid for by Pfizer? What?

 

[oneforthebus]

one death, CDC advises against using this.
how interestingly coinkydink

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-tells-consumers-stop-using-125605472.html

Because artificial tears don't prevent many more deaths than they cause. Because there are numerous other artificial tear alternatives. Because this was probably a contaminated batch and there may be other bottles out there from that same contaminated batch.

People have died from Tylenol yet it's still on the market.

People have died from peanut butter yet it's still on the market.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

https://apnews.com/article/health-india-coronavirus-8788a4dadc2103ec30f40111dec92f15

Again, you suck at this.

Covid Deaths to Date:
Europe - 2,006,600
North America - 1,599,357
Asia - 1,530,355
South America - 1,347,754
Africa - 258,520




Africa - heavy users of Ivermectin, scant users of the vaccines....vastly unscathed.

Africa's vaccines administered represent 0.056 of world-wide doses administered.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Maybe that's why the Pentagon doesn't want to shoot down China's "weather balloon". Might have a fresh strain of 'Rona in it.
Of course it's going to come down sometime somewhere and Montana might be better since at worst it will hit a moose.

 

[oneforthebus]

Congratulations, you've been awarded 6 months free membership here at SN for being the first poster in 2023 to use the phrase "Anti-Vax" more than 150 times!​

Another theory from the person who only researches and deals in facts.

It's called an opinion Tim. Call it a theory if you'd like. We'll see how successful the bogus lawsuit will be.

And yes, Children's Health Defense is Robert Kennedy's anti-vax group. Predates covid by years. That is a fact.

 

[Troglodyte]

OH good lord, we know that the graph is at a point in time. But it represents CUMULATIVE data. As you JUST said, it represents all deaths from Feb 2021 to Jan 7 2023. All of the deaths for 15-16 months SINCE the vaccines started.

WRONG! You quoted 5,152 deaths as of 3/17/21. The vast majority of those deaths are NOT included in the graph as they were prior to 2/1/21.

Do you not see the difference between these 2 charts? You keep saying that 9.7% of people drove "11x the deaths" of the unvaccinated. You can only make that statement if those unvaccinated people were ALWAYS 9.7% of the population. They were not. Compare the two graphs.

View attachment 10447

For that time period, they did. What don’t you understand about 55.1>9.7 and 76.6>25.5?

You're changing the argument and misconstruing, once again, the data. This historical beat down of your position began when you put stakes in the ground that the vaccines were 92% effective, you parroted the "get vaxed you won't get Covid" talking points, and you touted the vaccines would prevent death.

No I’m not. The vaccinated continue to be several times less likely to die from Covid. FACT.

This WA state data shows, month to month, continual waning and continual ineffectiveness of the vaccines.

Go read...again.
https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-866401
https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-872088
https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-901203
https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-873049

“Continual waning and continual ineffectiveness “ That’s a contradiction, think about it.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

So is your suggestion that the quotes from actual scientists who conducted the studies contained in those fact checks are all made up? If so why haven't they come out and said "Reuters lied and misquoted me. The vaccines really are dangerous."? Are they "in on it" or do they just not care about people dying too? All paid for by Pfizer? What?

You claim that 100% of what you post comes from a scientist explaining his/her data. You are the queen of facts and what you post is undeniable and never misinformation - except when it is. An example of a powerful fact check you posted just a couple days back after which you claim anything to the contrary is decreed misinformation.



Powerful. The claim is unsupported and we find the information "misinformation" because of "inadequate support." Damning stuff.

The study doesn’t permit epidemiological conclusions to be drawn and doesn’t sufficiently rule out alternative causes of death apart from vaccination​

Powerful.

However, experts who weren’t involved in the study found that such an interpretation isn’t substantiated by the work actually done in the study.

Powerful.

Cardiac risks from vaccination are lower than from COVID-19​

Brilliant. What % of mankind is vaccinated and has never had Covid (i.e., not vaccinated + natural immunity)? LOL. 5%? Good for that uber minority of the world's population.

Konrad Steinestel, Head of Pathology, Bundeswehr Hospital Ulm:
The article misrepresents the actual content of the study. In fact, only 8.6% of the investigated deaths in the study were interpreted to be causally linked to the vaccine (3/35, Table 2), in line with findings from Schneider et al. and the meta-analysis by Sessa et al.[2,3]...It is true that further autopsy studies are needed to further identify risk factors for adverse events following vaccination, and too few autopsies are currently being performed. However, the study by Schwab et al. does not establish a mechanistic link between vaccination and (epi)myocarditis.

And that was essentially the summation of the whole article. "We can't disprove Schneider et al, we question the claims, and we claim he/they can't claim what they claim they claim." Stunning.

It's all misinformation, except Konrad Steinestel said the quiet part out loud.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

It's called an opinion Tim. Call it a theory if you'd like.

You only deal in facts...was...the point.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/history/index.html

Our own governments standard is several years of testing a new vaccine in phase 3 alone.
Tell me why our government forced citizens to take a shot that did not pass their own standards.

View attachment 10443

Honestly, this entire thread can conclude with this information. Look, I get it, we were led to believe that this virus was the second coming of the black plague and that we were all going to die, so the manufacturers were granted emergency status to get it to the market as quickly as possible. If proper protocols were followed, it doesn't get out of phase II, and how some still support it's use is mindboggling. We have the right and obligation to question the science, because this is no where close to the research done by Jonas Salk.

Without the minions in the media spreading fear, which is really all that they ever do 24/7, we would likely have more answers than we do right now.

Everything else in this thread is simply hand wringing and teeth gnashing, because it's far too complex in its scope that we will ever fully know the truth.

 

[Troglodyte]

Again, you suck at this.

Covid Deaths to Date:
Europe - 2,006,600
North America - 1,599,357
Asia - 1,530,355
South America - 1,347,754
Africa - 258,520


View attachment 10448

Africa - heavy users of Ivermectin, scant users of the vaccines....vastly unscathed.

Africa's vaccines administered represent 0.056 of world-wide doses administered.

Ivermectin!
Yeah, no. Africa’s median age is 19.4.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

WRONG! You quoted 5,152 deaths as of 3/17/21. The vast majority of those deaths are NOT included in the graph as they were prior to 2/1/21.

OMFG. It's like talking to a damned wall. You've taken that comment now out of context.

5,152 deaths at March 17 was cumulative prior to the vaccines. And I told you that on that date only 13% of WA was vaxxed. That was the goal line. The first measuring stick. Don't look prior. Go to the next data point, the beginning of October.

I even said FROM March that 17 TO October there were 2,950 deaths - 100% of which happened during the administration of the vaccines.

You're accusing me of looking PRIOR to March 17. You can't read for ****.

For that time period, they did. What don’t you understand about 55.1>9.7 and 76.6>25.5?

Again you miss the point and have since 2021 when this damned analysis began.

Tim says: Watch the WA state data and watch the trends and see the vaccines wane severely in terms of efficacy. That's been the point since day one of analyzing the data.
Floggy's response: The vaccinated are protected more than the unvaxxed.

Tim says: I like gum.
Floggy says: Boogers!

I am literally arguing at the back of the shortbus.

The vaccines have plummeted in effectiveness and the WA state data corroborates it.

No I’m not. The vaccinated continue to be several times less likely to die from Covid. FACT.

Find one person here including me who has ever said otherwise.

The point you keep missing. That number continues to dwindle. Even from you....it used to be 20X, then 15X, then 13x....then 11x.

That's all you've got left. I know, you know, the data shows....the vaccines continue to wane and the vaccinated continue to die. And all you've got is to claim the vaccinated die left....at an ever decreasing rate.

Just wait.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Ivermectin!
Yeah, no. Africa’s median age is 19.4.

And that's all you've got. The least vaccinated continent on earth by a LONG SHOT suffered the fewest deaths....by a LONG SHOT. They also happen to be the poorest continent with the worst health care and nutrition on the planet.

And you use age....literally that's all you've got.

Now is your opportunity to show how your beloved Holy Grace of God vaccine kept Africans dying from the Bubonic Covid.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

No offense intended, but....

 

[oneforthebus]

You only deal in facts...was...the point.

I've said I like accuracy, and truth. I don't think I've said I never express opinions.