Covid Vaccine

[Tim Steelersfan]

What is the study that produced the data from "the chart"? Because the chart certainly has no relationship whatsoever in terminology or methodology to the two studies you posted.

I don't think you've bothered to actually read the article. The two studies are not source material for the chart. They serve as baselines for what annual athlete deaths were leading up to 2021. None of the data from those studies is in the chart.

Please post a study which shows "athletes are dying at higher rates than ever before".

I have before, including the NIH which you and Floggy won't ever touch. Odd that. The NIH has publicly stated there is in fact a concerning increase in athlete deaths they cannot explain.

Crickets.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

66 deaths of YOUNG US athletes per year. Your "data" includes people from all over the world. And includes people who didn't die. And includes people who weren't ever even in danger of dying, And includes people who are not young. Not to mention that we don't even have any idea if any of them were even vaccinated but that's another argument.

US population 331 million.
World population 7.9 billion.

So yes, the number of athletes who die (or collapse, or get cancer, or get bacterial infections, or fall to their knees and cry after losing a tennis match) all over the world is going to be considerably larger than the number of young US athletes who die.

You are comparing apples to bicycles.

The Maron study was US based

The International Olympic study was not just the US: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17143117/

My "data" are two published research studies. They were used as baselines to give the reader an idea of what deaths in prior years were.

Like Floggy, when a published research or medical article goes against your ingrained bias, it is "data" - i.e., bullshit data not to be considered.

You are offended by 2 or 3 outliers in a list of 100 data points that are suspect and you then discount all of the data. It is therefore misinformation.

On the other hand when it comes to reported AEs for these vaccines, you hypocritically don't care about the truth or blindly continue to believe AEs are being thoroughly vetted (despite being proven they are not being). We have one system (of many in the US) alone with 1.5M reported AEs not properly being investigated. Reports are being scrubbed from systems (documented). You don't care about that truth. "I'm sure they are doing their job." Worldwide, there are millions upon millions adverse events reported in dozens and dozens of systems.

To that you wave your hand and say "they are all being investigated" and operate on faith, not data.

These are the most dangerous vaccines given to mankind not pulled out of circulation. In the meantime you're worried that one or two or three athletes listed as having died from the vaccines may have died of other causes...and to you that is far more important than 35,000 US reports of death from the vaccines (barely investigated if not ignored) and millions upon millions of global reported AEs.

You want the absolute truth on anything mis-reported as a vaccine death, but don't care for any truths from our governments and medical agencies.

I want it on both sides. I'm happy to have the list of athletes scrubbed if there are errors. Happy. In exchange, I want thorough investigations of AEs globally and formal, mandatory postmortem done on patients suspected of vaccine death.

Let's get truth on both sides. The truth always lies in the middle.

I'll continue to post data pointing to the dangers of these vaccines. Some of it will be wrong at times. Much of it won't be.
You continue believing naively in the Government and the CDC. Much of what they have told us and continue to tell us is wrong.

There's vastly more misinformation from them than all the "anti-vaxxers" (still don't know what that means) you revile.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Social media. Misinformation.

How do you know his problems didn't come from a pre-existing condition? Or from bad pretzels he ate huh?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Much like “Athlete Collapses and Deaths”.

That the National Institutes of Health says is a problem.

Science denier.

 

[oneforthebus]

None of the data from those studies is in the chart.

Yes I know. That's why I asked "where is the study that produced the data from "the chart"? A question you have not answered.

 

[oneforthebus]

I have before, including the NIH which you and Floggy won't ever touch. Odd that. The NIH has publicly stated there is in fact a concerning increase in athlete deaths they cannot explain.

Would you mind posting the link again? I don't recall seeing it.

 

[oneforthebus]

The Maron study was US based

The International Olympic study was not just the US: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17143117/

My "data" are two published research studies. They were used as baselines to give the reader an idea of what deaths in prior years were.

Like Floggy, when a published research or medical article goes against your ingrained bias, it is "data" - i.e., bullshit data not to be considered.

You are offended by 2 or 3 outliers in a list of 100 data points that are suspect and you then discount all of the data. It is therefore misinformation.

On the other hand when it comes to reported AEs for these vaccines, you hypocritically don't care about the truth or blindly continue to believe AEs are being thoroughly vetted (despite being proven they are not being). We have one system (of many in the US) alone with 1.5M reported AEs not properly being investigated. Reports are being scrubbed from systems (documented). You don't care about that truth. "I'm sure they are doing their job." Worldwide, there are millions upon millions adverse events reported in dozens and dozens of systems.

To that you wave your hand and say "they are all being investigated" and operate on faith, not data.

These are the most dangerous vaccines given to mankind not pulled out of circulation. In the meantime you're worried that one or two or three athletes listed as having died from the vaccines may have died of other causes...and to you that is far more important than 35,000 US reports of death from the vaccines (barely investigated if not ignored) and millions upon millions of global reported AEs.

You want the absolute truth on anything mis-reported as a vaccine death, but don't care for any truths from our governments and medical agencies.

I want it on both sides. I'm happy to have the list of athletes scrubbed if there are errors. Happy. In exchange, I want thorough investigations of AEs globally and formal, mandatory postmortem done on patients suspected of vaccine death.

Let's get truth on both sides. The truth always lies in the middle.

I'll continue to post data pointing to the dangers of these vaccines. Some of it will be wrong at times. Much of it won't be.
You continue believing naively in the Government and the CDC. Much of what they have told us and continue to tell us is wrong.

There's vastly more misinformation from them than all the "anti-vaxxers" (still don't know what that means) you revile.

It's well more than 2 or 3 outliers. Your two published research studies are not comparable groups to the "data from January" that you posted. Which isn't data at all, it's just a random list of people who have gotten sick and/or died from various things at various ages.

The difference is a lot of what you call "lies" from science is not lies. It's evolving understanding of the science. Whereas a lot of the stuff you post is demonstrably and intentionally false. And when someone points it out your argument seems to be "well both sides lie". Even if we are to accept that science and government are constantly lying to us, the idea that the best way to combat that is to make up different lies is curious.

If people are really dropping dead left and right from the vaccines, why is someone including Ons Jabeur and 72 year olds who died of cancer in their "data"? If these vaccines were actually causing the kind of injuries and mayhem that you guys claim they are, there would be no reason to make **** up. Yet **** gets made up on anti-vax sites daily.

 

[Troglodyte]

Would you mind posting the link again? I don't recall seeing it.

Spoiler alert: it doesn’t mention the Covid vaccines. That’s Tim’s embellishment.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Spoiler alert: it doesn’t mention the Covid vaccines. That’s Tim’s embellishment.

So the **** what? Unbelievable. It shows unequivocally a large rise in deaths of athletes. That it doesn't try to state the cause it irrelevant to the fact it proves their is a rise that ou are denying. Period.

 

[oneforthebus]

I've been searching for it but all I can find is a sharp rise in cardiac deaths in young people that began during the first year of the pandemic. Pre-vaccine and certainly before most young people were eligible to receive it. So I'd like to take a look at the NIH study if someone has a link.

 

[IndySteel]

Oh, Floglofuck piping in on a Sunday…

 

[IndySteel]

I've been searching for it but all I can find is a sharp rise in cardiac deaths in young people that began during the first year of the pandemic. Pre-vaccine and certainly before most young people were eligible to receive it. So I'd like to take a look at the NIH study if someone has a link.

 

[Confluence]

Sweet little article for the upcoming Covid commission. Top ten questions that should be asked by said commission.

https://thefederalist.com/2023/02/09/top-10-questions-a-covid-commission-should-probe-about-the-united-states-pandemic-response/

1. What Could Have Been Done to Better Protect Older, High-Risk Americans?​

2. Why Was Natural Immunity to Covid Ignored?​

3. Why Were Schools and Colleges Closed?​

4. Why Was Covid Prioritized over Other Health Problems?​

5. Why Did the CDC Fail to Collect Accurate Data About the Virus?​

6. Why Did Public Health Officials Trust Unreliable Models?​

7. Why Was There a Concentrated Effort to Demonize Potential Covid Therapeutics?​

8. Why Did Public Health Officials Disregard Safety Protocols for the Covid Jabs?​

9. How Did the U.S. Get Its Covid Testing Policies So Wrong?​

10. Why the Massive Push for Ineffective Mask Mandates?​

Why did the FDA not use its own guidelines for safety in new drug development, especially in this rushed case with public need/worry, and in concert with parallel efforts to find existing, safe drugs with Covid efficacy?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Would you mind posting the link again? I don't recall seeing it.

Use the search function. Like Floggy, you continue to ask us to do excess work. It's in the thread.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

If people are really dropping dead left and right from the vaccines, why is someone including Ons Jabeur and 72 year olds who died of cancer in their "data"? If these vaccines were actually causing the kind of injuries and mayhem that you guys claim they are, there would be no reason to make **** up. Yet **** gets made up on anti-vax sites daily.

Why did the CDC include countless deaths from other causes as Covid deaths when the deceased only had Covid but didn't die from Covid? That to you is a "mistake". Anything that points to vaccine deaths is a lie.

What you ignore is the massive amount of excess deaths. The massive amounts of AEs reported on the vaccines globally. And you "trust" they are all being looked into. When they demonstrably are not being.

The data on the athletes dying in the chart and in the article is ever evolving. It's not just January (not sure why you are fixated on that...it was mentioned as a single point in time comparison). The article I believe is published monthly. I've published it before. It's been going for 1.5 years.

Yes, it's utter sin for people to compile lists of suspicious deaths. And question them. And demand investigation. When that's not being done by the Governments who took an oath to protect their citizenry.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Spoiler alert: it doesn’t mention the Covid vaccines. That’s Tim’s embellishment.

I've never said the NIH said it was vaccine related. As usual, you have to morph arguments and put words in people's mouths.

I have said there has been an alarming rise in sudden deaths among athletes. You and others argue that's not true.

The NIH acknowledges there has been.

You will say it's all due to Covid. I suspect some of it is due to vaccines we scientifically know damage hearts.

The point: They should be investigated. Not whitewashed and glossed over. Which is in fact happening.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/368389701_Age-stratified_COVID-19_vaccine-dose_fatality_rate_for_Israel_and_Australia

The paper finds that the vDFR (vaccine-dose fatality rate) is exponential with respect to age.



The paper points out that “it is not unreasonable to assume an all-population global value of vDFR = 0.1 %”
Using data from Israel and Australia, the paper estimates 13 million deaths worldwide from the COVID vaccines:

The COVID-19 vaccines did not only not save lives but they are highly toxic.
On the global scale, given the 3.7 million fatalities in India alone, having vDFR = 1 % (Rancourt, 2022), and given the age-stratified vDFR results presented in this work, it is not unreasonable to assume an all-population global value of vDFR = 0.1 %. Based on the global number of COVID-19 vaccine doses administered to date (13.25 billion 24 doses, up to 24 January 2023, Our World in Data),3 this would correspond to 13 million deaths from the COVID-19 vaccines worldwide. By comparison, the official World Health Organization (WHO) number of COVID-19 deaths to date is 6.8 million (6,817,478 deaths, reported to WHO, as 3 February 2023),4 which are not detected as COVID-19 assignable deaths in ACM studies.

It is well established that the COVID-19 vaccines can cause death, as seen from:
• detailed autopsy studies (Choi et al., 2021; Schneider et al., 2021; Sessa et al.,
2021; Gill et al., 2022; Mörz, 2022; Schwab et al., 2022; Suzuki et al., 2022; Tan
et al., 2022; Yoshimura et al., 2022; Onishi et al., 2023),
• adverse effect monitoring (Hickey and Rancourt, 2022),
• a recent survey study (Skidmore, 2023),
• studies of vaccine-induced pathologies (e.g., Goldman et al., 2021; Kuvandik et
al., 2021; Turni and Lefringhausen, 2022; Edmonds et al., 2023; Wong et al.,
2023), and
• more than 1,250 peer-reviewed publications about COVID-19 vaccine adverse
effects (React 19, 2022).

 

[Troglodyte]

So the **** what? Unbelievable. It shows unequivocally a large rise in deaths of athletes. That it doesn't try to state the cause it irrelevant to the fact it proves their is a rise that ou are denying. Period.

So the subject of the thread, dunce. I’m denying that there’s evidence that it’s caused by the vaccines.

 

[Troglodyte]

I've never said the NIH said it was vaccine related. As usual, you have to morph arguments and put words in people's mouths.

I have said there has been an alarming rise in sudden deaths among athletes. You and others argue that's not true.

The NIH acknowledges there has been.

You will say it's all due to Covid. I suspect some of it is due to vaccines we scientifically know damage hearts.

The point: They should be investigated. Not whitewashed and glossed over. Which is in fact happening.

You get exposed and you try to change your argument. Again.

It’s scientifically known Covid is much more likely to damage hearts, you insist on ignoring that.

COVID-19 Surges Linked to Spike in Heart Attacks

New data analysis from the Smidt Heart Institute at Cedars-Sinai found that deaths from heart attacks rose significantly during pandemic surges, including the COVID-19 Omicron surges, overall reversing a heart-healthier pre-pandemic trend.Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, heart attacks were the...

www.cedars-sinai.org

 

[Iron95]

So the subject of the thread, dunce. I’m denying that there’s evidence that it’s caused by the vaccines.

What do you think the cause is Trog? Snipers?

 

[Iron95]

You get exposed and you try to change your argument. Again.

It’s scientifically known Covid is much more likely to damage hearts, you insist on ignoring that.

COVID-19 Surges Linked to Spike in Heart Attacks

New data analysis from the Smidt Heart Institute at Cedars-Sinai found that deaths from heart attacks rose significantly during pandemic surges, including the COVID-19 Omicron surges, overall reversing a heart-healthier pre-pandemic trend.Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, heart attacks were the...

www.cedars-sinai.org

Did you even read your own link? It only confirms what Tim has been saying. The web site has another link that states that the vax may be the problem. Neither article gives a definitive answer. All they are saying is that they don't know yet, and more study is needed.

 

[Confluence]

Flogtard and now OFTB are left to attempt to discredit because thats all they have.

The Covid drugs fastracked by FDA, paid for by governments all over the developed world may have saved X lives and may have cost Y lives.

Because of bad data, neither X or Y is knowable.

What is knowable is that all Covid stats have been overestimated at all times by governments, so X is likely to be smaller than generally believed. Conversely, Y, said by the regulators and manufacturers to be close to zero, is likely much higher because neither FDA nor manufacturers actually followed their normal safety protocols, and the efficacy was far worse than hoped for.

The unintended side effects of giving any drug that is not necessary, repeatedly, is unlikely to lead to a positive outcome, unless that drug has a known, long term safety profile.....like, say, ivermectin.

To deny that the mRNA shots are unsafe in long term effects, or were not necessary for most the population is to side with the most sanctioned entity in the history of pharma, that same company that has netted $100B thru sales of untested, unknown drugs, sanctioned by FDA, CDC and governments thoughout the western world.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

So the subject of the thread, dunce. I’m denying that there’s evidence that it’s caused by the vaccines.

You also have denied time and again, over and over there is NO increase in athlete deaths.

You're wrong, again.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

It’s scientifically known Covid is much more likely to damage hearts, you insist on ignoring that.

COVID-19 Surges Linked to Spike in Heart Attacks

New data analysis from the Smidt Heart Institute at Cedars-Sinai found that deaths from heart attacks rose significantly during pandemic surges, including the COVID-19 Omicron surges, overall reversing a heart-healthier pre-pandemic trend.Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, heart attacks were the...

www.cedars-sinai.org

We will accept proof of that if you want to provide it. That article doesn't establish that in the least. In fact, it's a terrible representation of your position.

Using data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Vital Statistics System, the Cedars-Sinai researchers identified 1,522,699 deaths from heart attacks—medically called acute myocardial infarctions—between April 1, 2012, and March 31, 2022.

Investigators then compared age-related mortality rates between pre-pandemic and pandemic periods, as well as demographic groups and regions.

They didn't analyze how many of those were vaccinated. In fact, the words vaccine or vaccination aren't even found in the article. So, it's guaranteed that a large percentage of those 1.5M deaths were people who'd been jabby jabbed.

The excess in acute myocardial infarction-associated mortality has persisted throughout the pandemic, even during the most recent period marked by a surge of the presumed less-virulent Omicron variant.

Hmmmm author of article, don't the vaccines damage hearts, and come with warning labels now reminding the user "this may damage your heart?" Fact, they do.

Researchers found that although acute myocardial infarction deaths during the pandemic increased across all age groups, the relative rise was most significant for the youngest group, ages 25 to 44.

Isn't this odd logic? 75% of all Covid deaths were in those 65+. Covid killed the old and the sick predominantly. Those 25-44 represented about 0.025 of all deaths. But the article notes that the age group LEAST affected by Covid itself saw the HIGHEST rise in heart deaths. Hmmm. Logic would say that rise in heart deaths - IF COVID WAS THE CULPRIT - would be the age group - oh I don't know - that was most susceptible to the virus, the elderly?



This article is a theory piece given they don't include any analysis of the vaccine's effects on these people.

Back to the point. You, as mentioned, have argued there is no rise in athlete deaths. Numerous times. This has firmly been your position.

Also as established, you're wrong again.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

What do you think the cause is Trog? Snipers?

Prolly snipers and landmines