One thing is certain......consrvatives arguing with conservatives over how to again attain a fiscally responsible and Consitutional government is all moot. We (the makers) are outnumbered by the takers now. Without some kind of HUGE shakeup delivered at the hands of the makers, sayonara America.
Death of the Republican party
- Thread starter EdReed4Prez
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Who cares whether the shovel is electable if the end result either way is being beaten to death? Why not try to choose NOT being beaten to death? Or at least do something different in the hopes that maybe the end result isn't being beaten to death?
'Tis the goal of Bomma, Alinsky, Cloward & Piven, etc.
And they've acheived it. Game over.
**** it, I'm moving to Italy when I get out of school if they need any funeral directors. At least Europe is moving our way after figuring out that Socialism doesn't work, meantime we're moving their way.
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Class envy has been a powerful tool. Next will be the grab for your IRAs, and the sheep will accept it because "it's not fair that some people are rich and I'm not". Just like "it's not fair that some people have health insurance and I don't".
I'm pretty much done caring about politics. I don't volunteer or donate to political campaigns any more. My focus is on setting up my children as best I can for the shitstorm that's coming.
I'm pretty much done caring about politics. I don't volunteer or donate to political campaigns any more. My focus is on setting up my children as best I can for the shitstorm that's coming.
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About two weeks ago, I was working from my home office and someone knocked on the door. I happened to be waiting for a package, and figured it was UPS. I answered the door to find a young kid (guessing a high school senior or college freshman), with a clipboard in hand. He said he was out doing a survey on behalf of Patrick Murphy and wondered who I was voting for in November. I told him, "It's June, I haven't even started researching who will be running for election four months from now," and closed the door in his face.
You can not make the poor rich by making the rich poor. - Abraham Lincoln ... of course, he has to be wrong because he is a racist republican.
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And you do realize that the USA is still a center right country right? What you need to do is step on your brain clutch and put your brain in gear and think about what yes common denominator has been in GOP losses. Its always a moderate that loses. Like ER4P pointed out you aren't going to pull swing voters with DNC LITE.
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Rand Paul is a lot closer to Reagan than Mitt "free healthcare for all Mass" Romney. What made Reagan wasn't just his charismatic charm. What made him was his idea of "Broad bold differences" between the two parties.
BTW the reason Romney lost was because he couldn't get his base out. IF a true conservative were running that wouldn't be an issue. Why didn't they turn out? Because Romney was seen as a north eastern liberal republican... which is exactly right.
I voted for Romney because every politician has some "evil" in them... meaning there is something you don't agree with. So everybody ALWAYS votes for the less of 2 or 3 or 20 evils. But I knew about BHO and what he would do. Helen Keller could have seen that coming.
BTW the reason Romney lost was because he couldn't get his base out. IF a true conservative were running that wouldn't be an issue. Why didn't they turn out? Because Romney was seen as a north eastern liberal republican... which is exactly right.
I voted for Romney because every politician has some "evil" in them... meaning there is something you don't agree with. So everybody ALWAYS votes for the less of 2 or 3 or 20 evils. But I knew about BHO and what he would do. Helen Keller could have seen that coming.
What lost the election for Romney was people were afraid they might actually have to look for a job instead of living off of the tax dollars of the middle class... that and the fact that the Dems were bringing bus loads of voters to the polls in key districts in key states...
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Your second part may be accurate, but I believe Vader is correct regarding conservative turnout. Mitt got less votes than McCain, IIRC. Seems weird in one sense because Mitt would be a far superior president than McCain, IMO, but I expect that the conservatives were willing to go along with McCain as an option and when the GOP nominated Mitt, they just said '**** it, you had 4 years of listening to us and did the same damn thing. Enjoy losing. Again."
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I don't doubt that conservatives stayed home because of Mitt and McCain. Where the doubt comes in is this idea that there are enough of them out there to defeat the "gimme gimme" and "war on women" masses.
Like I said, hope I'm wrong. Polls have Hilary beating Paul by 10 points or so. I guess all the conservatives are not responding?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_paul_vs_clinton-3825.html
Like I said, hope I'm wrong. Polls have Hilary beating Paul by 10 points or so. I guess all the conservatives are not responding?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_paul_vs_clinton-3825.html
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And sadly, those polls are after the clusterfuck of the last two terms. The morons in this country still want a Dem president in the midst of this. It's insane.
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The biggest thing about this discussion is that it seems most people want you to be this or that, but not a combination.
I can get behind Ron or Rand Paul because if either were elected their religious beliefs would be marginalized when in office, somewhat like Kennedy.
Short of the Republicans trying something DIFFERENT, we all need to be preparing for the collapse. The tit suckers may very well turn out to vote themselves a bigger tit, but I believe there will be a high percentage of complacent people who will believe that others will vote.
The candidate to put up has to be Fiscally conservitive and Socially moderate. They have to make their position known and repeatedly so. They can not be willing to pull punches or not tell it like it is. That person right now is Rand Paul, he just needs to address his views as "just his". Let those out there know he is strongly Pro-choice, but thinks you have a right to choose for your self. Let those out there know he is strongly anti Gay Marriage, but thinks you have a right to choose for your self. Let those know these choices are better left to the States. Make the campaign about the FINANCIAL MESS this country is in and less about the hot button arguments that accomplish NOTHING.
This would allow the Republicans to vote Libertarian without knowing it.
the Republicans can not win without the Conservitive Dems, Independants, Libertarians or Conservitive Republicans.
I can get behind Ron or Rand Paul because if either were elected their religious beliefs would be marginalized when in office, somewhat like Kennedy.
Short of the Republicans trying something DIFFERENT, we all need to be preparing for the collapse. The tit suckers may very well turn out to vote themselves a bigger tit, but I believe there will be a high percentage of complacent people who will believe that others will vote.
The candidate to put up has to be Fiscally conservitive and Socially moderate. They have to make their position known and repeatedly so. They can not be willing to pull punches or not tell it like it is. That person right now is Rand Paul, he just needs to address his views as "just his". Let those out there know he is strongly Pro-choice, but thinks you have a right to choose for your self. Let those out there know he is strongly anti Gay Marriage, but thinks you have a right to choose for your self. Let those know these choices are better left to the States. Make the campaign about the FINANCIAL MESS this country is in and less about the hot button arguments that accomplish NOTHING.
This would allow the Republicans to vote Libertarian without knowing it.
the Republicans can not win without the Conservitive Dems, Independants, Libertarians or Conservitive Republicans.
it is not insane... it is self preservation... you can really get addicted to having your hand out to the government and it would be a shame if a person would have to work for their money instead of relying on the middle class tax dollars. *sarcasm
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The only way to find out is to do something DIFFERENT. If it does not work we are no worse off.
We have 4 in our imeadiate family who will not vote for someone who wants to deny what they believe are Civil Liberties. They believe that takes priority over ANYTHING else.
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This seems to be an incorrect recollection regarding the total # of votes. Mitt, according to Wiki, got ~100k more votes than McCain and carried 2 more states and had ~30 more electoral votes. BTW, the Republican ticket failed to carry the home state of either candidates....******* sad. Mass would have been obvious from the get-go, though.
The Big O got ~4,000,000 less votes than he did in 2008.
Rod or Ron have both posted here about how ****** up the GOP campaign was. I bet they didn't learn anything, either.
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Nobody cares about that anymore. Or at least very few do. We're better off making it about who has some cool celebrity friends, sings or plays saxophone or can come up with some good tag lines. That's what people care about these days. Serious people who talk about serious issues are boring. Deficit? Whoozits whatsis? Just make the rich corporations pay for it, and gimme my Obamaphone! Problem solved.
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Sorry, this is the most defeatist I've ever been in the nearly 30 years I've been a voter. I should probably not even bother with this forum anymore.
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The real problem is that things haven't gotten worse for the Democratic base. They're already at the bottom, so they perceive even the illusion of maintaining the status quo for them as a win. They're going to keep voting, especially if there's a free ride to the polls (and whatever other enticements might be legally or illegally offered on Election Day). The middle class people, for whom it's been steadily getting worse, don't see how Republicans are going to turn anything around for them, so they have no incentive to vote either. McCain didn't offer much, Romney offered even less, and so far the Republican field is looking just as lackluster as the last several elections. No incentive at all.
I don't think that an ultra-right-wing candidate is going to make the country any better than Obama at this point, but what the Republican party needs is an honest-to-god political firebrand, someone with a strong opinion on something that can motivate the Republican voters that aren't turning out. The party-line voters will still vote (R) regardless, and I suspect the party would gain more voters for a strong right-wing conservative candidate than they would lose in voters who would be turned off by the strong conservative platform. The difficulty is that I don't think they can run a big Bible-thumping campaign... given the political climate right now, with the Hobby Lobby thing, if the Republicans were to go too far down the Christian path, they would inspire a lot more voters to go the other way out of fear of too much religious control over government. Given that, I don't see what planks the Republicans can lay out...
* Gun rights and shootings play well in the media, but politically, every shooting that happens does that argument more harm than good, and so does every picture or video the liberal media can show of people exercising their open carry rights by walking around with AR-15s.
* GLBTI rights and acceptance are on the upswing, so the family values/morality position will be perceived as homophobia and outdated, especially since the young, liberal hipster crowd can be highly motivated on topics like this one.
* The Supreme Court has thrust women's rights and religion into the limelight with Hobby Lobby, and Democrats and moderates are sure to be motivated to give Congress a liberal mandate in that arena.
* Nobody really cares about health care - everyone is ready for the whole topic to just stop being talked about, it's all we've heard about for a decade, and it's hasn't gotten markedly better or worse in all that time. It's more of a three-card monty game, where nothing has really changed, they've just shuffled everything around and confused everyone.
* Likewise, I think there's no one that really expects either party to solve the lingering economic crisis, or even make truly positive steps toward fixing the economy. Unemployment hasn't gotten significantly better, the national debt is crushing, and the economic recovery we've been promised for years has been pretty uninspiring.
I don't think that an ultra-right-wing candidate is going to make the country any better than Obama at this point, but what the Republican party needs is an honest-to-god political firebrand, someone with a strong opinion on something that can motivate the Republican voters that aren't turning out. The party-line voters will still vote (R) regardless, and I suspect the party would gain more voters for a strong right-wing conservative candidate than they would lose in voters who would be turned off by the strong conservative platform. The difficulty is that I don't think they can run a big Bible-thumping campaign... given the political climate right now, with the Hobby Lobby thing, if the Republicans were to go too far down the Christian path, they would inspire a lot more voters to go the other way out of fear of too much religious control over government. Given that, I don't see what planks the Republicans can lay out...
* Gun rights and shootings play well in the media, but politically, every shooting that happens does that argument more harm than good, and so does every picture or video the liberal media can show of people exercising their open carry rights by walking around with AR-15s.
* GLBTI rights and acceptance are on the upswing, so the family values/morality position will be perceived as homophobia and outdated, especially since the young, liberal hipster crowd can be highly motivated on topics like this one.
* The Supreme Court has thrust women's rights and religion into the limelight with Hobby Lobby, and Democrats and moderates are sure to be motivated to give Congress a liberal mandate in that arena.
* Nobody really cares about health care - everyone is ready for the whole topic to just stop being talked about, it's all we've heard about for a decade, and it's hasn't gotten markedly better or worse in all that time. It's more of a three-card monty game, where nothing has really changed, they've just shuffled everything around and confused everyone.
* Likewise, I think there's no one that really expects either party to solve the lingering economic crisis, or even make truly positive steps toward fixing the economy. Unemployment hasn't gotten significantly better, the national debt is crushing, and the economic recovery we've been promised for years has been pretty uninspiring.
Bingo. Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
I was intimately involved at the county level. Mitt's campaign was a clusterfuck.
I wants my BommaMoney from His stash. I votes for Him ten time.
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I am sick to death of hearing a Moderate can't win. It all depends on your definition of a moderate. I do not want an ultra right social conservative. I want an Ultra Fiscal Conservative, Pro military, Speak softly but carry a big stick foreign policy, but stay the **** out of my religion and bedroom candidate. That person would win hands down if he or she was passionate, articulate and able to debate. Frankly I am not sure anyone with those qualities exists.
You know how Helen Keller burnt the side of her face? She answered the iron.
You know how she burnt the other side? They called back.
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