Derek Chauvin Trial

[Superman]

and before that is picked apart, again - had Chauvin showed any empathy in a fellow human, this thread wouldnt have been created. Chauvin is a POS and GF, while simultaneously being a POS, didnt deserve to go out like that.

 

[Tibs]

imagine for a moment...

Chauvin simply taking his ******* knee off the neck of a subdued, handcuffed man laying face down in the street, stood up and calmly went about his business. Imagine if Chauvin had done that.

we'd not have this thread.

 

[Tibs]

This may not be a bad thing, given there seems to be a high level of incompetence in the MPD. From the shooting of a woman (in her pajamas) who had called police due to a possible intruder a few years back, to the George Floyd death, and the officer who can't tell the difference between a taser and a gun in a critical moment, something needs to change. That's too many people dead due to police mistakes/excess use of force.

George Floyd murder: Minneapolis police to face US federal probe​

George Floyd murder: Minneapolis police to face US federal probe

The justice department announces probe into city police practices after George Floyd murder verdict.

www.bbc.com

A US federal investigation has been launched into policing practices in the city of Minneapolis, a day after one of its former officers was convicted of the murder of George Floyd.

The justice department will look at whether there has been a pattern "of unconstitutional or unlawful policing", Attorney General Merrick Garland said.

 

[Superman]

imagine for a moment...

Chauvin simply taking his ******* knee off the neck of a subdued, handcuffed man laying face down in the street, stood up and calmly went about his business. Imagine if Chauvin had done that.

we'd not have this thread.

and like i said, three minutes before you rushed to reply....

and before that is picked apart, again - had Chauvin showed any empathy in a fellow human, this thread wouldnt have been created. Chauvin is a POS and GF, while simultaneously being a POS, didnt deserve to go out like that.

 

[Steeltime]

Every cop would have to carry E&O Insurance or they would be stupid to remain in law enforcement. The cost of a 20+ million dollar policy would be more in premiums than most cops make in a year. So much for law enforcement.

You are correct, but I am guessing that you are not really aware of how much we are talking about. First, the primary insurance policy would indemnify to no more than $1 million. Anything more than that would have to be an excess policy, and more than $1 million is generally recommended for professions that can result in people being killed - such as doctors and police. Therefore, two policies would be needed.

The primary policy would cost approximately $50,000 per year. The excess policy would cost another $25,000. The primary costs more because it is triggered for EVERY claim and carries with it the cost of lawyers, experts, court costs, etc. Therefore, to get the $20 million coverage you referenced - a reasonable amount of coverage by the way - a police officer would need to spend about $75,000 per year.

Or more than a lot of cops make in a year.

OFTB, there is nothing there about eliminating qualified immunity, but a suggestion to change/modify it. We'd have to see the actual wording in the legislation to find out what means. From what I can tell, it would lower the threshold somewhat of what the requirements are to proceed with a case.

If you don't even know what the proposed legislation says, why the hell are you encouraging people to call their congressional representative and demand it be passed? Oh, I forgot - because you are that stupid.

I highly doubt it would play out, as you suggest, that 'cops can be sued even when there is no evidence of bad faith or incompetence."

I honestly don't know why I bother. You have literally zero knowledge - none, zippo, bupkus, nada, zilch - regarding lawsuits against law enforcement officers, the minimum allegations for such claims, the burden of proof, or the question as to who pays the cost for defending against such claims. I will provide you the information because I have handled defense of law enforcement personnel numerous times and know this issue well. Again, I don't know why I bother, because you are a moron, but here goes.

The term "qualified immunity" means that any action - ANY. ACTION - taken by a public employee in the course of conducting his or her official duties is immune from suit unless the employee's behavior while in the course of official duties violated the plaintiff's “clearly established” statutory or constitutional rights. That is why the Floyd family could sue in this instance, because the plaintiff's alleged a violation of civil rights, assault, battery, etc. - that is, "clearly established statutory and constitutional rights."

The standard for immunity is something called "reasonable belief." Specifically, where the public official (and the immunity applies ONLY to public officials because they are compelled to carry out functions involving public safety so in return they get the immunity) reasonably believes the conduct in question is done in furtherance of the public duty. The standard is "reasonable belief" so that a complainant cannot get around the immunity simply by alleging some unique mindset on the part of the public official. If the public official can show behavior in the course of official duties and a good-faith belief, i.e., qualified immunity, then the public entity is obligated to pay the cost of defense and fees.

By giving public officials this immunity, the legislature further allows courts to winnow out claims that are not meritorious early on, via something called a demurrer or, in Federal Courts, a Rule 12(b)(6) challenge. That challenge will assert that even believing the plaintiff's allegations to be true, so what? There is no possible case to be made. Example: I sue a police officer for false imprisonment by alleging he pulled me over for lack of registration, when in fact I had the car registered but just forgot to put the tags on.

A reasonable person would believe the stop was valid. Therefore, even if I believe the allegation, so what? No case - qualified immunity. That immunity is nowhere near the level of protection that the mob wants to claim. For example, the Supreme Court held in Malley v. Briggs, 457 U.S. 335 (1986), that qualified immunity does not apply to a police officer when the officer wrongfully arrests someone on the basis of a warrant, if the officer who could not reasonably believe that there was probable cause for the warrant. "Reasonability" is determined by the action that an objectively reasonable officer would take.

The genius mob want to change that (as do you, even if you are too stupid to realize that) to a much less protective standard:

It shall not be a defense or immunity in any action brought under this section against a local law enforcement officer ... that— (1) the defendant was acting in good faith, or that the defendant believed, reasonably or otherwise, that his or her conduct was lawful at the time when the conduct was committed.

Two things, neither of which you are smart enough to realize. First, the bill essentially eliminates intent as an element of the claim. That intent is necessary to remove protection from those we pay to do jobs that involve issues of public safety. It is needed to have people willing to do those jobs. Want some evidence of that?

Second, notice who this law applies to? Look carefully, little man. Federal legislators are so brave - soo, sooo brave - in taking away qualified immunity, they did so for ALL police officers right? Amirite?

Ehhh, no. They KEEP qualified immunity for their officers, Federal law enforcement, since they are not "local law enforcement." See that little trick, Decaf? Bet you didn't.

So of course a Federal officer can shoot an unarmed 120 lb. woman in the face and nothing happens cuz the evil qualified immunity.

If it did, I too would be staunchly against such a measure.

No you wouldn't. You are your illiterate hoard riot, threaten, burn, and loot when a cop shoots a guy after the guy (1) rapes a girl, (2) violates a restraining order and returns to the girl's apartment to steal her car so the girl understandably calls the cops, whereupon the guy (3) resists arrest, (4) wrestles two cops to the ground, (5) shakes off a taser, and (6) is reaching for a knife in the back seat of his car when shot.

 

[Tibs]

Oh Squealtime, such a mixed bag you are. Sometimes, it seems you're ready to join an adult conversation, make some good points, add to the discussion. Then you **** it up with your usual childish, petty diatribe.

Would be great if you ever found the remote to your brain and was able to bring it down a notch. I dunno from maybe 11 to an 8 or a 9. But no, you're always wound up, ready to go through the roof.

Every time I read any of your posts I imagine a small child throwing a tantrum, thrashing around, arms flailing, drawing all over the walls and furniture with markers, until he storms off to his room and slams the door. This is one of those times. You should take a timeout. Take a long, deep breath, drink a glass of cold water, maybe splash some on your face. Try to settle down and gather yourself, before you post.

I'm looking for a better, calmer, smarter version of yourself. You can do this. Good luck!

 

[Steeltime]

Yep, called it. Decaf too stupid to read, too dumb to understand points raised that completely disprove his claims.

But of course not too dumb to recommend calling your congressional representative to demand passage of a bill he knows nothing about and has not read!!

 

[wig]

The police in Minn should just stop policing. Nit quit, mind you. Just stop policing. Pull up on a robbery in progress, pull around the corner, eat a sandwich and 30 minutes later call for backup.

 

[wig]

Car speeding down the highway, pot smoke billowing out the windows - turn on some Barry Mannilow and set the cruise control 5 miles below the speed limit.

 

[wig]

Get a call for domestic disturbance, pull over and start googling online counseling degrees.

 

[wig]

Somebody in the community starts bitching about lack of police presence, point out politely that you aren't adequately trained in the areas they are complaining about.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Get a call for domestic disturbance, pull over and start googling online counseling degrees.

I love the Libs who want to replace the police with "community patrols".
They forget that George Zimmerman was the community patrol in his community.

 

[NCSteelerfan]

Again, I don't know why you and your ideological brethren keep whaling away on these strawmen - again and again and again. *sob* "Why do you think Adolf Chauvin should be free and acquitted on all counts?"

Can you please find one post on this thread - ONE POST - suggesting Chauvin did nothing wrong and should face no punishment? The argument has been about degree of guilt. I tried to explain why under Minnesota law, a lack of intent to kill means manslaughter is the charge most likely to stick. The indifferent failure to summon medical assistance may well have played a role in his death. That would be manslaughter.

Citing evidence from the coroner about the cause of death is not a wild trip into excuse land. In fact, in basically ever murder trial conducted, the prosecution calls one witness on cause of death - the coroner, the one person whose job it is to determine cause of death. Why would the prosecution here need to call three medical experts, none of whom is a pathologist, to discuss cause of death, rather than the doctor who performed the autopsy, obtained the lab samples from the autopsy, and whose job it is to determine cause of death?

Did you ever ask yourself that? And cause of death is a factor in any murder trial. The debate on that point is not some "golden ticket" that means Chauvin committed no potential criminal wrong, but instead - once again - a legitimate point of debate. Only the very dumb or mentally challenged, window-lickers if you will, ascribe evil motive to those who actually know what the hell a trial is and what constitutes evidence and wonder if the evidence can support a certain charge.so

Good lord, take a breath. Didn't state that people think Chauvin should be acquitted.........sob. Not sure why you think that's what my post meant, and I don't follow any specific "ideology" . I hold my own opinions on things without any influence from one side or the other. Eh, whatever. You have your opinion I have mine. As I didn't watch the entirety of the trial and neither did you, but the jury did and they decided based on the evidence, testimony and what the charges meant.

 

[oneforthebus]

I love the Libs who want to replace the police with "community patrols".
They forget that George Zimmerman was the community patrol in his community.

Test

Edit: sorry about my test, for some reason I'm unable to reply in the covid vaccine thread. Getting an error message every time. Just checking to see if it's sitewide.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Yep, called it. Decaf too stupid to read, too dumb to understand points raised that completely disprove his claims.

But of course not too dumb to recommend calling your congressional representative to demand passage of a bill he knows nothing about and has not read!!

He likes his communist Liberal ideology and won't open his mind to facts. He's here to preach, label, condescend. Not to debate, exchange, learn. I.e., troll.

Thank you for the reasonable level-headed legal explanation.

I was unaware of the differences between what they want to do at the local level v. the federal level. Good stuff man.

 

[Superman]

I saw it. Yeah, she was 15 but she was a heavyweight with a knife. The cop saved the other girl's life. Here's what's going to end up happening soon:

In the near future – cop gets call from dispatch about incident – cop steps on gas and turns on lights and siren – cop asks dispatch, are any black people involved, dispatch responds , yes – cop steps off gas, turns off lights and siren.

If you’re a police officer just stop responding to the black community. Let them stab and kill each other. Riots solved.

this is ****** up all the way around.

and not just a dig at you, Indy.

the thing is, we want unity and everyone helping everyone else. i have black friends, i have white friends, i have brown friends. I even have a green friend who lives in a swamp and owes me some nectar of the gods. thing is, i call them all friends. and **** with them without impunity, treating each of them equally worthless and subject of barbs per their actions and words.

while indy's post is wild, it does show that there are different communities, despite the dem-cry for "Yoonatee".

years ago, there was a plea for more black cops in black neigborhoods. I believe we came a step closer to that - to communities essentially policing themselves. While this can be beneficial in one aspect, it reeks of segragation. but this is a long-time coming. as we've seen neighborhoods undergo gentrification, and those gentrifiers being viewed as evil. we also see the aspect of race appropriation becoming a hot topic. which would only become more volatile.

in the coming days, i'd watch for those calls for separate but equal policing in communities, "common sense" laws that are designed with more leaning to one community or another, and further racial divide perpetuated by the ignorant attempting to assuage their faux "white guilt".

 

[Superman]

I love the Libs who want to replace the police with "community patrols".
They forget that George Zimmerman was the community patrol in his community.

or those who say a perp could be tased.
yeah, about that...

 

[wig]

this is ****** up all the way around.

and not just a dig at you, Indy.

the thing is, we want unity and everyone helping everyone else. i have black friends, i have white friends, i have brown friends. I even have a green friend who lives in a swamp and owes me some nectar of the gods. thing is, i call them all friends. and **** with them without impunity, treating each of them equally worthless and subject of barbs per their actions and words.

while indy's post is wild, it does show that there are different communities, despite the dem-cry for "Yoonatee".

years ago, there was a plea for more black cops in black neigborhoods. I believe we came a step closer to that - to communities essentially policing themselves. While this can be beneficial in one aspect, it reeks of segragation. but this is a long-time coming. as we've seen neighborhoods undergo gentrification, and those gentrifiers being viewed as evil. we also see the aspect of race appropriation becoming a hot topic. which would only become more volatile.

in the coming days, i'd watch for those calls for separate but equal policing in communities, "common sense" laws that are designed with more leaning to one community or another, and further racial divide perpetuated by the ignorant attempting to assuage their faux "white guilt".

I think they call that "Sharia Law".

 

[IndySteel]

while indy's post is wild, it does show that there are different communities, despite the dem-cry for "Yoonatee".

Just FYI, I wasn't serious about not responding to 911 calls. It's got to be frustrating to be a cop though. They can't win, even when saving someone's life.

 

[wig]

Just FYI, I wasn't serious about not responding to 911 calls. It's got to be frustrating to be a cop though. They can't win, even when saving someone's life.

Uh. I kinda am. Although I'm not suggesting they racially profile what emergency calls they respond to. I'm just suggesting that it is in the police officers' best interest to fail to engage any policable event. They simply lack the proper training and knowledge to appropriately minster to the needs of all parties. Basically, police should drive around in their cruisers in order to serve as deterrents although they ought never actually engage.
They simply cannot be successful in the current atmosphere. Better to let darwinism sort it all out.

Nope, not really kidding. Let them eat cake and have it too.

 

[warriors42]

imagine for a moment...

Chauvin simply taking his ******* knee off the neck of a subdued, handcuffed man laying face down in the street, stood up and calmly went about his business. Imagine if Chauvin had done that.

we'd not have this thread.

Imagine for a moment..

George Floyd wasn't a criminal piece of **** that was once again breaking the law; wasn't breaking the law. Chauvin nor Floyd would have been in the situation they were in. hey but I get Black folk need to be left to do what they want to with no regard to the law or other human beings, only the white folk should be held accountable. FOR EVERY ******* THING..

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Candace doesn’t hold back.

 

[bermudasteel]

I think the jury got it wrong but I respect their decision, The jurors are going to have to live with that decision. I think we will see an exodus of officers from the MPD.

Got it wrong how???

 

[bermudasteel]

It is going to impact a lot more than just MPD. This insane rhetoric is nationwide and departments across the country are losing officers at alarming rates. Many departments have increased shift hours or taken away off days to cover shifts. When violent crime and crime in general spikes 30-40% higher, then the nut jobs will ***** about why cops aren't doing more to stop it. It's a no-win situation.

The nation is only asking for ACCOUNTABILITY. Period. Don't make this more than that...

 

[bermudasteel]

Have you seen the Ma-Khia Bryant bodycam video out of Columbus? So now apparently a police officer cannot shoot someone even if they are in the act of stabbing someone else.

I guess we don't care about the life of the girl who was about to be stabbed?

What is wrong with the George Floyd policing act? The most glaring example is ending qualified immunity. Subjecting indivdual officers to harassing lawsuits every time someone doesn't like the outcome of a police action, even if the officer was acting in good faith. So what happens when an officer in this Columbus situation comes upon someone in the act of stabbing someone? If they shoot they will be sued. If they don't shoot and the girl gets stabbed to death they will be sued.

Would literally be the end of policing.

I don't see how the two incidents are related. Trust me - the Black community is not outraged over Makhia's shooting now that the body cam footage has been released.

She was absolutely wrong and the police officer made the right decision.