DRAFT 2018 - Quarterback Reports (Pre Combine)
- Thread starter deljzc
- Start date
foles did well a couple years ago. Remember? then there was change over with the HC etc. I need to do more research as to what exactly changed, but he raised eyebrows a few years back.
Some decent later round prospects....but if Im the Steelers....I will pass this year..
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 9,394
- Reaction score
- 6,217
- Points
- 113
I dont disagree. I dont recall if anyone here has listed him there.
I can tell you flat out that the "9 times out of 10" theory is bunk. Just look back in history. Johnny U. was so bad in SB V ---and long past elite status --- he got benched, yet the Colts won; hard to consider Terry Bradshaw "elite" during seasons SB IV or X; Jim Plunkett was not elite, yet managed to rumble, bumble and stumble to 2 SB wins; was Jim McMahon "elite"? Doug Williams? Mark Rypien? Jeff Hostetler? Brad Johnson? Trent Dilfer? Eli Manning? Many of these guys - competent, yes, elite, no...or elite for a day or even a season, but certainly not elite in the way we measure QBs over a longer period of performance. That's 12 SBs right there, off the top of my head....may have missed some.
Sure, it helps to have an elite QB, but it is far from necessary.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 9,394
- Reaction score
- 6,217
- Points
- 113
Why do you keep bringing up what he did this year as if anyone disagrees or that it proves your point?
Maybe it was his supporting cast, maybe not. Could be a ton of things, including that he just now gets it. 1 season <> mean he is an Elite QB. He may even continue to play tbat well elsewhere for a few years. THEN, you can .ake that argument. Until, then you are flapping your gums.
Have you ever written a list of QBs in the NFL by categories of Elite, great , good ,avg, whatever and included Foles in the Elite or even Great group?
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 9,394
- Reaction score
- 6,217
- Points
- 113
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 9,394
- Reaction score
- 6,217
- Points
- 113
Regular season he completed 56.4% of his passes. Is that Elite?
Playoffs that went up to 76%+
Basically, the same supporting cast. I STILL maintain the more important piece is: 7 regular season games, 2 ints. Playoffs 1.
Playoffs that went up to 76%+
Basically, the same supporting cast. I STILL maintain the more important piece is: 7 regular season games, 2 ints. Playoffs 1.
The neil odonnell recipe.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 9,394
- Reaction score
- 6,217
- Points
- 113
Well, except Neil had 2 infamous int's (maybe more) in the playoffs.
Funny thing is, for years, what we remember about Neil is those two interceptions, but, at the time, he was the least intercepted QB in NFL history.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 9,394
- Reaction score
- 6,217
- Points
- 113
The real problem with my theory is that any QB's who would fit that bill have ultimately met up with a cheating sack of **** team for so many years.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2018
- Messages
- 1,126
- Reaction score
- 1,316
- Points
- 113
As an Oklahoma native and Oklahoma State alum/fan I've watched every snap Rudolph ever took in college and a tons of Mayfield.
I know nothing about evaluating talent, but as a layman I would be pissed and terrified if PIT used a 1st round pick on Rudolph or Mayfield
I will be cheering hard for Rudolph as long as the pats don't get him. Great character, has done everything right. However, he inexplicably has these innacurate patches over 2-3 drives that have killed Oklahoma State over the years, his footwork under pressure is terrible, he needs a clean pocket to operate, he's also come up VERY small in the big moments against the best teams in his senior year.
Mayfield imo is a system player who like others said throws to open receivers a lot, we already have Jones who ran a similar system at OU and we see already what that looks like, and the only thing Mayfield has on Jones is mobility. Plus I have a hard time seeing Mayfield behave himself on and off the field sitting behind Ben for 2-3 seasons
I know nothing about evaluating talent, but as a layman I would be pissed and terrified if PIT used a 1st round pick on Rudolph or Mayfield
I will be cheering hard for Rudolph as long as the pats don't get him. Great character, has done everything right. However, he inexplicably has these innacurate patches over 2-3 drives that have killed Oklahoma State over the years, his footwork under pressure is terrible, he needs a clean pocket to operate, he's also come up VERY small in the big moments against the best teams in his senior year.
Mayfield imo is a system player who like others said throws to open receivers a lot, we already have Jones who ran a similar system at OU and we see already what that looks like, and the only thing Mayfield has on Jones is mobility. Plus I have a hard time seeing Mayfield behave himself on and off the field sitting behind Ben for 2-3 seasons
those picks weren't his fault......damn they still piss me off though....especially the last one....
I don't like any of those guys enough to pass on BPA when the Steelers' pick rolls around....
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
The Qb's in green are or will be in the pro football hall of fame.
The Qb's in orange were elite level players in their time
To be fair you can be an elite level player and never make the hall of fame, but I think it a pretty good bench mark.
Some takeaways
*** 40 of 51 winning QB of the super bowl are also in the hall of fame. 78.4%!!! ***
*** I would say Phil Simms, and Russell Wilson are elite level players. Simms is nominated for the hall of fame. Mark Rypien was a former NFL MVP, that's elite. Theismann was also elite So move the needle to 44 of 51 were elite or 86.2% of the time. ***
*** At times you have a team with just above average QB winning the superbowl, however he often needs an all time type of defense around him and a non elite level type of QB playing for the other team. ***
When I said 9 times out of ten you 10 an elite level QB to win the super bowl, that was pretty accurate.
NO. DATE RESULT
I Jan. 15, 1967 Green Bay 35, Kansas City 10
II Jan. 14, 1968 Green Bay 33, Oakland 14
III Jan. 12, 1969 New York Jets 16, Baltimore 7
IV Jan. 11, 1970 Kansas City 23, Minnesota 7
V Jan. 17, 1971 Baltimore 16, Dallas 13
VI Jan. 16, 1972 Dallas 24, Miami 3
VII Jan. 14, 1973 Miami 14, Washington 7
VIII Jan. 13, 1974 Miami 24, Minnesota 7
IX Jan. 12, 1975 Pittsburgh 16, Minnesota 6
X Jan. 18, 1976 Pittsburgh 21, Dallas 17
XI Jan. 9, 1977 Oakland 32, Minnesota 14
XII Jan. 15, 1978 Dallas 27, Denver 10
XIII Jan. 21, 1979 Pittsburgh 35, Dallas 31
XIV Jan. 20, 1980 Pittsburgh 31, Los Angeles 19
XV Jan. 25, 1981 Oakland 27, Philadelphia 10
XVI Jan. 24, 1982 San Francisco 26, Cincinnati 21
XVII Jan. 30, 1983 Washington 27, Miami 17
XVIII Jan. 22, 1984 Los Angeles 38, Washington 9
XIX Jan. 20, 1985 San Francisco 38, Miami 16
XX Jan. 26, 1986 Chicago 46, New England 10
XXI Jan. 25, 1987 New York Giants 39, Denver 20
XXII Jan. 31, 1988 Washington 42, Denver 10
XXIII Jan. 22, 1989 San Francisco 20, Cincinnati 16
XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10
XXV Jan. 27, 1991 New York Giants 20, Buffalo 19
XXVI Jan. 26, 1992 Washington 37, Buffalo 24
XXVII Jan. 31, 1993 Dallas 52, Buffalo 17
XXVIII Jan. 30, 1994 Dallas 30, Buffalo 13
XXIX Jan. 29, 1995 San Francisco 49, San Diego 26
XXX Jan. 28, 1996 Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17
XXXI Jan. 26, 1997 Green Bay 35, New England 21
XXXII Jan. 25, 1998 Denver 31, Green Bay 24
XXXIII Jan. 31, 1999 Denver 34, Atlanta 19
XXXIV Jan. 30, 2000 St. Louis 23, Tennessee 16
XXXV Jan. 28, 2001 Baltimore 34, New York Giants 7
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 New England 20, St. Louis 17
XXXVII Jan. 26, 2003 Tampa Bay 48, Oakland 21
XXXVIII Feb. 1, 2004 New England 32, Carolina 29
XXXIX Feb. 6, 2005 New England 24, Philadelphia 21
XL Feb. 5, 2006 Pittsburgh 21, Seattle 10
XLI Feb. 4, 2007 Indianapolis 29, Chicago 17
XLII Feb. 3, 2008 New York Giants 17, New England 14
XLIII Feb. 1, 2009 Pittsburgh Steelers 27, Arizona Cardinals 23
XLIV Feb. 7, 2010 New Orleans Saints 31, Indianapolis Colts 17
XLV Feb. 6, 2011 Green Bay Packers 31, Pittsburgh Steelers 25
XLVI Feb. 5, 2012 New York Giants 21, New England Patriots 17
XLVII Feb. 3, 2013 Baltimore Ravens 34, San Francisco 49ers 31
XLVIII Feb. 2, 2014 Seattle Seahawks 43, Denver Broncos 8
XLIX Feb. 1, 2015 New England Patriots 28, Seattle Seahawks 24
50 Feb. 7, 2016 Denver Broncos 24, Carolina Panthers 10
LI Feb. 5, 2017 New England Patriots 34, Atlanta Falcons 28
Footnote. In super bowl 25, Phil Simms, was hurt, but had he played, the percentage goes up to 45 out of 51 or 88.2% of the time you need an elite level QB to win the super bowl.
^^^ Is the above grading fair? I think so.
Last edited:
so 13/51 are not elite....so 1.3/5.1 or 2.6/10.2....were not elite.....so only 7.4/10.2 were elite.....that disproves your 9 out of 10 theory
hmmmm....you edited your post after I posted this....you're still wrong....
hmmmm....you edited your post after I posted this....you're still wrong....
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
I came out with 86.2% you need an elite to QB to win. Close enough to 9 out of ten. To be fair I did not list Jim Punkett ( who is or was nominated for the hall of fame ) even though he won TWO super bowls and awards.
If chose to add Jim Plunkett, my initial call without any research would be spot on. Take look back at the chart I posted, you will have a tough time saying I wasn't fair. And let's keep it real Coolie, you pretty much know I'm right.
Some takeaways
*** 40 of 51 winning QB of the super bowl are also in the hall of fame. 78.4%!!! ***
*** I would say Phil Simms, and Russell Wilson are elite level players. Simms is nominated for the hall of fame. Mark Rypien was a former NFL MVP, that's elite. Theismann was also elite So move the needle to 44 of 51 were elite or 86.2% of the time. ***
*** At times you have a team with just above average QB winning the superbowl, however he often needs an all time type of defense around him and a non elite level type of QB playing for the other team. ***
When I said 9 times out of ten you 10 an elite level QB to win the super bowl, that was pretty accurate.
Footnote. In super bowl 25, Phil Simms, was hurt, but had he played, the percentage goes up to 45 out of 51 or 88.2% of the time you need an elite level QB to win the super bowl.
Last edited:
after you edited your findings you came up with that....you have McMahon,Simms, WIlliams, Rypien, and Wilson as elite and all are questionable....not sure what year you think Rypien won the NFL MVP...I don't see him on the list anywhere.....
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
Williams was stuck on a bad tampa team for years. Maybe you can take him off.
If a player more than one pro bowl, he's elite. This is very true back in the day when guys didn't duck out of the game.
Rypien was a two time pro bowl player, an All pro, a super bowl MVP winner, and 5-2 in the playoffs. I'd count him.
McMahon is iffy, and All pro one year and come back player of the year
Wilson is elite for sure. He's been in four pro bowls already
So if you want to cross out McMahon, I might just add Plunkett.
Nothing is going to change.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 9,394
- Reaction score
- 6,217
- Points
- 113
What you do, is come up with your theory, then massage the #'s to fit.
Im having a hard time remembering that Rypien was elite. Good, yes. Elite? Have to look back at that. I always confused him with another guy whose name i cannot remember.
Im having a hard time remembering that Rypien was elite. Good, yes. Elite? Have to look back at that. I always confused him with another guy whose name i cannot remember.
Williams was stuck on a bad tampa team for years. Maybe you can take him off.
If a player more than one pro bowl, he's elite. This is very true back in the day when guys didn't duck out of the game.
Rypien was a two time pro bowl player, an All pro, a super bowl MVP winner, and 5-2 in the playoffs. I'd count him.
McMahon is iffy, and All pro one year and come back player of the year
Wilson is elite for sure. He's been in four pro bowls already
So if you want to cross out McMahon, I might just add Plunkett.
Rypien, Williams, McMahon were not elite and Plunket was not even close...Wilson is borderline. ...also...Unitas went down in the first half of Super Bowl V...does he still get credit for the win? Hell all of the early Super Bowls were won by the running game and defense more so than the QB play....
edit...Ryien's first pro bowl (1989) he was a replacement after two others bailed due to injuries......1991 was his best season....
Last edited:
well that would add, Delhomme, McNabb and Ryan to the non elite list......
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 9,394
- Reaction score
- 6,217
- Points
- 113
Rypien had 2 years with a QR over 90. He was 5-3 in the Playoffs with a 53.85% completion rate and a 72.2 QR. These last two numbers are below Joe Flacco in the playoffs
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
Add Kurt Warner to the elite list.
Actually the only super bowl game where New England was caught cheating was in 2002. A different question is how many games did they cheat during the process of the regular season / playoffs? Unknown. A few for sure.
Two super bowl wins for New England were close, decided by a kick, or in Ryan's case stupid coaching!
I do think McNabb was good enough to be called elite level QB. Not hall of fame, but very good / pro bowl type.
Similar threads
