Draft discussion thread.

[antdrewjosh]

I disagree it's "totally different". I think that's blow way out of proportion. I think stopping the run and getting into 3rd and long situation is still the way to win football games. It's still about getting the QB off his spot, smacking him in the mouth and sacking him on occasion. It's about beating the guy in front of you, not running around him. I don't Seattle plays "soft" and I don't think Seattle is forcing speed over toughness. I don't think San Francisco or Cincinnati (two very talented defensive units) are following this "smaller, faster, nickle" talk. Cincinnati has a MLB that runs a 5.0. Their front 4 is dominating with power and ability.

We will see if adding Mitchell and Shazier make up our very week and very thin D-line. The proof is in the pudding. We'll have to wait until the games are played.

I agree which is why I still would under stand a Nix pick. Forcing teams into predictable down and distances is key. I do think because we play a 3-4 its harder for us to combat what teams are doing. The key to our run defense has to come off the field when teams spread us out. The bengals not so much. I dont think they have to take Atkins or Peko out when teams go spread so they are still able to contain the run. San Fran already has what we are now attempting to do two middle linbackers who can cover just as well as they run stuff. So they are fine against spread offenses.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

So much for spence and his clean bill of health... I guess he can be back up till timmmons moves on.

 

[antdrewjosh]

What might have been: Word is that the Steelers really liked North Carolina tight end Eric Ebron, and he may well have been their pick had the Lions not taken him at No. 10 overall. Ebron, who caught 62 passes for 973 yards and three touchdowns last season, would have provided Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger with a tall, athletic target, as well as a future successor to Heath Miller. The Steelers have had the 15th overall pick three times since 1991, and all three times they have used it on a linebacker. They picked Lawrence Timmons No. 15 overall in 2007.

 

[deljzc]

I don't think people understand what the **** they are talking about when saying "spread offenses".

This isn't the ******* 4-wide run and shoot bullshit of the 90's. Most teams are incorporating at least 1 and often 2, 250 lbs TE's. Those with athletic quarterbacks are creating power running games with QB option runs. They are crashing their 320 lbs tackles into the DT's. They are completely letting the DE "free" for the QB to figure out. They are pulling guards onto a side field to create a favorable numbers game.

Does this sound "small" to you? Really?

I have no ******* idea what bullshit Tomlin and Colbert are spewing. All I hear is about Shazier's speed yet we ******* picked a 245 lbs linebacker last year that ran a ******* 4.92. Where was the talk about "speed" last year?

This front office just says stuff to say stuff. No rhyme or reason. No year-to-year consistency.

All our linebackers are now under 6'-2". Worilds barely breaks 250 lbs.

I feel like we're a step behind in our philosophies. I think around the league is already going back to bigger backs again. Teams will copy cat Seattle (and the NFC West in general) and get tougher, get bigger, get more physical. San Francisco is going small WR to combat Seattles big DB's.

It's all cyclical. I just have no idea what we're trying to do or why. Brady and Manning could be out of the league in 3 years. We could be dealing with more and more big QB's that run. More power running games. Bigger TE's.

Everyone wants Bowman and Lee. Both ran 4.72.

Again, now they (and everyone here) is selling me on "speed" when 12 months ago, they (and everyone here) was fine with a 4.92 OLB prospect that was also a bit undersized and needed "time" to develop NFL strength.

We will see.

 

[antdrewjosh]

No one is saying teams are running the run and shoot..lol.

What they are doing with these tight ends who can stretch the field is forcing us to play nickle defenses because we dont have linebackers to cover these tight ends and running backs in base. Then when we go nickle they run it down our throat. Hopefully this pick will allow us to stay in base and be able to cover TEs and Backs without sacrificing getting gashed in the run game..

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

Not sure if tomlin is gettin more power more like Dick is getting who he Needs/wants!

 

[USDA#1]

just a general comment, but missing on T'aamoo and Hawthorne is showing this year.

 

[Superman]

When you look at our three LBs who tested at the NFL combine, what sticks out is they're nearly identical in size and other variables.
Timmons, Worilds and Shazier are all 6'1". Jarvis is 6'3"
Timmons and Shazier shared nearly identical weight at the combine (234 and 237 respectively). I doubt Timmons is still 234, though. Jarvis was/is 241.

Other than Jarvis, they all benched at least 24 (Worilds was at 24 while Timmons and Shazier benched 25) - Jarvis didn't bench
Timmons, Worilds and Jarvis are all in the same "speed" department 4.65-4.74 range

What is interesting is Timmons, Worilds and Shazier are all in the same range in the 3-cone. If I remember correctly, we really liked this drill as it showed COD speed. Shazier is the speediest, obviously, at 6.91. Timmons is 6.92 and Worilds was 6.95

For our changing defensive philosophy, it would appear we have cogs that can be interchanged...on paper, at least. Whether that is good or bad will come out later. Though it would appear we are gearing towards being able to flow to the ball with a quickness.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

So are we going to see Car 2.0 in HOU?

 

[Steel Not A Player]

I just want to jump in and say...

I think Bridgewater makes Minn really interesting. He really lucked out with Jax taking Bortles instead. Minn is a much better organization, and will likely give him the best shot at success. I think he has alot of Russell Wilson's polish coming out, and could be the best QB in this draft.

I would have puked if he'd gone to CLE.

 

[Steel Not A Player]

So are we going to see Car 2.0 in HOU?

I think that would be comedy.

The fans may hate it, but to be fair, Carr the Original got his *** handed to him on a bad expansion team. I think, under better circumstances, Derek could have been really good.

Some guys are busts because of outside factors, like injuries, not because they're not NFL caliber. I think Derek Carr is one of those. If the Steelers had taken him, he might have a couple of rings right now.

Tim Couch was at least as good as Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford. Those guys are good and serviceable respectively because they don't play for god awful organizations like the Browns. I don't think Couch would ever have lit up the world, but he could have been alot better on a better team.

 

[ZACKB]

I completely agree. CaRr got hosed because he had no protection, and took a beating.

I think that would be comedy.

The fans may hate it, but to be fair, Carr the Original got his *** handed to him on a bad expansion team. I think, under better circumstances, Derek could have been really good.

Some guys are busts because of outside factors, like injuries, not because they're not NFL caliber. I think Derek Carr is one of those. If the Steelers had taken him, he might have a couple of rings right now.

Tim Couch was at least as good as Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford. Those guys are good and serviceable respectively because they don't play for god awful organizations like the Browns. I don't think Couch would ever have lit up the world, but he could have been alot better on a better team.

 

[deljzc]

Not sure if tomlin is gettin more power more like Dick is getting who he Needs/wants!

I think Lebeau and Butler are completely out of the picture. The guy's we're picking aren't anything like the rumor of who Bulter has been linked to liking (Hightower anyone?).

This smells of 95% Tomlin. And Kevin Colbert, who has always been a yes man, does just enough and is along for the ride.

Tomlin is the BMOC. That's as clear to me as it's ever been and he's likely been more in charge of these last couple drafts than any of us realize.

We'll see if the way Tomlin sees this going actually gets us out of our 8-8 slumps.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

Don't forget, we still have Todd's O. I still hate him.

 

[steelc1ty]

When you look at our three LBs who tested at the NFL combine, what sticks out is they're nearly identical in size and other variables.
Timmons, Worilds and Shazier are all 6'1". Jarvis is 6'3"
Timmons and Shazier shared nearly identical weight at the combine (234 and 237 respectively). I doubt Timmons is still 234, though. Jarvis was/is 241.

Other than Jarvis, they all benched at least 24 (Worilds was at 24 while Timmons and Shazier benched 25) - Jarvis didn't bench
Timmons, Worilds and Jarvis are all in the same "speed" department 4.65-4.74 range

What is interesting is Timmons, Worilds and Shazier are all in the same range in the 3-cone. If I remember correctly, we really liked this drill as it showed COD speed. Shazier is the speediest, obviously, at 6.91. Timmons is 6.92 and Worilds was 6.95

For our changing defensive philosophy, it would appear we have cogs that can be interchanged...on paper, at least. Whether that is good or bad will come out later. Though it would appear we are gearing towards being able to flow to the ball with a quickness.

Excellent post and speaks to what I really think is the changing nature of the NFL...its not just that opposing offenses spread out defenses, its that the NFL has been turned into a serious of one-on-one match-ups where the team with the biggest splash play on any down is the one that wins that down. IMO, in that situation, having "specialized" players (ie: double teaming NT, coverage CB, run stuffer ILB, etc) doesn't work anymore because the defense can't funnel plays to those players who are supposed to make them. If you have a short area CB and shade double coverage to his side you used to be able to just leave the coverage CB alone on the other side...but if he can't tackle for $h!t bubble screens will eat him alive. Like-wise if you have ILB's that can't cover the TE the offense puts in x2 TE sets and passes until plut in a safety/CB then they run it down your throats because you don't have the size to take on the blocks (gee, where does that sound familiar?). It used to be a defense could create a scheme to play to a players strengths while hiding their weaknesses, but with the way rules are called (so much easier to move the ball around and very punitive to defensive players) that philosophy is getting harder and harder to maintain.

The response to that is have, as you detailed, very similar players at all positions. If Jones, Shazier, Timmons, and Worilds all start at some point and are at least effective starters they have the ability to play run or pass equally well. IMO, another reason why the DL has been shifting to a more DT/DE style of play versus the separate NT and DE positions we had to past years.

 

[steelc1ty]

Don't forget, we still have Todd's O. I still hate him.

And why I would not be surprised at all to hear Allen Robinson's name called for our second pick.

 

[Idioteque]

Mark this down: Garrett Gilbert of SMU will be the best QB of the crop yet to be drafted.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I don't think people understand what the **** they are talking about when saying "spread offenses".

This isn't the ******* 4-wide run and shoot bullshit of the 90's. Most teams are incorporating at least 1 and often 2, 250 lbs TE's. Those with athletic quarterbacks are creating power running games with QB option runs. They are crashing their 320 lbs tackles into the DT's. They are completely letting the DE "free" for the QB to figure out. They are pulling guards onto a side field to create a favorable numbers game.

Does this sound "small" to you? Really?

I have no ******* idea what bullshit Tomlin and Colbert are spewing. All I hear is about Shazier's speed yet we ******* picked a 245 lbs linebacker last year that ran a ******* 4.92. Where was the talk about "speed" last year?

This front office just says stuff to say stuff. No rhyme or reason. No year-to-year consistency.

All our linebackers are now under 6'-2". Worilds barely breaks 250 lbs.

I feel like we're a step behind in our philosophies. I think around the league is already going back to bigger backs again. Teams will copy cat Seattle (and the NFC West in general) and get tougher, get bigger, get more physical. San Francisco is going small WR to combat Seattles big DB's.

It's all cyclical. I just have no idea what we're trying to do or why. Brady and Manning could be out of the league in 3 years. We could be dealing with more and more big QB's that run. More power running games. Bigger TE's.

Everyone wants Bowman and Lee. Both ran 4.72.

Again, now they (and everyone here) is selling me on "speed" when 12 months ago, they (and everyone here) was fine with a 4.92 OLB prospect that was also a bit undersized and needed "time" to develop NFL strength.

We will see.

This is my concern. People are acting like the NFL has become the Big 12 with everybody throwing slants to 180 Lb WRs from the shotgun every play. Yes, teams are throwing more but look at the so called "spread" teams in the NFL and they still use power.

The Saints spread you out and they still use a FB. The Pats spread you with 2 TEs and they run power RBs up the middle until you can stop it.

Does anybody feel good about the Steelers defense's chances vs the 49ers or Seahwaks right now?

I guess we should hope the Browns don't draft Carlos Hyde

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Mark this down: Garrett Gilbert of SMU will be the best QB of the crop yet to be drafted.

for those who forget. He was the true freshman who got thrust into the National Championship game for Texas vs Alabama when Colt McCoy got injured on the first series of the game. He did pretty well and had Texas close late. But of course, that had zero to do with the outcome, and to suggest otherwise is just being a hater.

After that game, Texas fans thought he'd be great because he was a highly touted recruit and he did look pretty good vs Bama. But the pressure was too much for him and he transferred to SMU.

He's a good thrower but i wonder how mentally tough he is, kind of like Jevon Snead, coincidentally another Texas transfer.

But it doesn't matter for Steeler fans, because we have Landry Jones, that they spent a 3rd rounder to have him sit the bench for likely his entire first contract then leave as a free agent. We're all set at QB.

Then again, since the Steelers are now apparently going with the highest rated guy on their board regardless of position or need, maybe we'll end up with 2 QBs this draft if they are still on the board. I mean they did draft landry Jones last year for no reason in the 3rd. Maybe we better root for QBs to get picked.

 

[dobre shunka]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ryan-shaziers-burst-could-fill-need-for-packers-b99263772z1-258221451.html

 

[dobre shunka]

War room pics:
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-a...1b471ce7#e36f3092-b58f-48b3-a9a5-cd7becd41cff

Best photo is really fuzzy:

Looks like Mosley wasn't on their board, or way down below Shazier. Same with all but one CB. No safeties, fwiw. 4 tackles very high. So Martin was in that cluster maybe, and viewed as a tackle. 2 or 3 WRs higher than Shazier, and a TE. And 2 OLBs. Clowney musta been OLB on their board. No DEs or NTs that high, but one of each a shade below Shazier. Not good news, as one is obviously Nix.

3 blank columns on far right. Those are specialists. K, P, LS. Can't remember without digging if the next two columns in are DT then DE or DE then DT. But one is slightly higher than the other. Dunno who that lone DE is. One of Tuitt, Hageman, maybe Crichton. Maybe that NT is Hageman. I dunno. But it's looking like one of those guys is gonna be their pick as those two close out their top two rows. Next cluster is a group of QBs (ain't happening), one WR, a couple of CBs who are probably already gone, then another ILB.

Anyways, off memory the columns read: FB, RB, QB, WR, TE, OC, OG, OT, S, CB, OLB, ILB, DE(orNT), NT(orDE), P, K, LS.

 

[Super Dave]

Bills just took Koujo......Damn.........TV is 3 picks behind......Their all about the show

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Steelers get Tuitt.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Solid pick and a good complement to Heyward up front. I can't complain.

However, I'll say ONE thing: are they content with what they currently have at WR and CB? They seem to think so.

 

[RollRed]

Love the pick... a defensive lineman that can actually pressure the QB... Plus I'm a Notre Dame fan and I watched damn near every snap this kid played. I dont think he'll disappoint.