I knew it was a commin'

[deljzc]

I'm sure Tibs will explain it to you in his typical highly douchery manner.

Actually I only think Elfiero is a racial democrat here. He's a BLM supporter through and through. I think that's pretty obvious.

Tibs is a Bernie Sanders, growing Euro-socialist. He might say he's not there yet. He might say he has some "conservative in him", but that's getting lost with his love of Bernie Sanders' message and support of a $5 trillion/year federal government.

 

[madinsomniac]

You know there is a hell of a lot of stupid statues and art that are potentially offensive... i mean its totally not facist to sterilize art... or books... i mean lets censor all the stuff that we find offensive or dumb... start with 1984 or Fahrenheit 451 and work out��....

I really like Turtles ��

 

[Tibs]

I respect this veteran's opinion. He's got a crystal clear view on all of this.


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[Tim Steelersfan]

If you don't think the Left is driving towards changing the teaching of the Civil War, read this piece from WashPo.

There is debate, and always will be, as to the origins of the Civil War. If you say it was not about States Rights, you are foolish. Likewise if you say it was not about Slavery, you are also a fool. There wasn't a reason for the war. There were many. These are facts. We can get into nuance over what drove what and the inter-relationships of each issue.

But see the push from the media? Because Texas wanted to teach that Slavery was "an" issue leading to the Civil War, and not "the" issue, they are enraged. This article is meant to highlight that this is wrong and to push for a change - the obvious message being that the Civil War was 100% slavery and should be taught as such.

To argue that there is not a current push to change how the Civil War is taught, if it is taught, is ridiculous.



Texas officials: Schools should teach that slavery was ‘side issue’ to Civil War

And when it comes to the Civil War, children are supposed to learn that the conflict was caused by “sectionalism, states’ rights and slavery” — written deliberately in that order to telegraph slavery’s secondary role in driving the conflict, according to some members of the state board of education.

Slavery was a “side issue to the Civil War,” said Pat Hardy, a Republican board member, when the board adopted the standards in 2010. “There would be those who would say the reason for the Civil War was over slavery. No. It was over states’ rights.”

“It’s the obvious question, it seems to me. Not only are we worried about the flags and statues and all that, but what the hell are kids learning?” said Dan Quinn of the Texas Freedom Network, a left-leaning advocacy organization that has been critical of the state’s academic standards in social studies.

If teaching history is how society shows younger generations who they are and where they came from, the Civil War presents unique challenges, especially because of the fundamental differences in the way the cause of the war is perceived 150 years after its last battle.

Nowhere is the rejection of slavery’s central role more apparent than in Texas, where elected members of the state board of education revised state social studies standards in 2010 to correct for what they said was a liberal slant.

Another article with some interesting quotes:

Teaching the Civil War, 150 years later

Jeremy A. Stern, a historian who reviewed state academic standards this year for the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, said differences in the timing and scope of Civil War education across the United States are dramatic. Often, he said, the war is not taught systematically until middle school.

William Davis, a Virginia Tech historian: “Slavery led to secession, and secession led to the war. But even that so oversimplifies it.”

Then there are the Alt Left websites, with expected articles:

The South still lies about the Civil War - In an ongoing revisionist history effort, Southern schools and churches still pretend the war wasn't about slavery

In the spring of 2011, in recognition of the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War, pollsters at the Pew Research Center asked: “What is your impression of the main cause of the Civil War?” Thirty-eight percent of the respondents said the main cause was the South’s defense of an economic system based on slavery, while nearly half—48 percent—said the nation sacrificed some 650,000 of its fathers, sons, and brothers over a difference of interpretation in constitutional law. White non-Southerners believed this in roughly the same proportion as white Southerners, which was interesting; even more fascinating was the fact that 39 percent of the black respondents, many of them presumably the descendants of slaves, did, too.

One reason boils down to simple convenience—for white people, that is. In his 2002 book “Race and Reunion,” Yale historian David Blight describes a national fervor for “reconciliation” that began in the 1880s and lasted through the end of World War I, fueled in large part by the South’s desire to attract industry, Northern investors’ desire to make money, and the desire of white people everywhere to push “the Negro question” aside. In the process, the real causes of the war were swept under the rug, the better to facilitate economic partnerships and sentimental reunions of Civil War veterans.

But an equally important reason was a vigorous, sustained effort by Southerners to literally rewrite history—and among the most ardent revisionists were a group of respectable white Southern matrons known as the United Daughters of the Confederacy.

 

[Buster]

I've come around on this issue. I can't wait for all of the confederate statues to come down so racism will be over once and for all. Just like when our first black president was elected.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

I've come around on this issue. I can't wait for all of the confederate statues to come down so racism will be over once and for all. Just like when our first black president was elected.

#butwhatwilltheleftbitchaboutnext.

 

[Steelr4evr]

#butwhatwilltheleftbitchaboutnext.

Trisexual inbred poodles wanting their *** shaved,welfare and free doggie abortions. Who knows what the insurgent shitbags will come up with next. Bunch of nonsense.

 

[deljzc]

When you decide your platform is to punish a side for the sins of the past, then often there never is an end. Every step just leads to you in believing more punishment is needed.

The whole "tone" of the debate now with race in this country (and I blame much of it on our last President and his leadership) is about payment, retribution and punishment. The "white privilege" narrative feeds into this (because what that means is "white guilt"). The double standard of violence and looting when it comes to protest. The new "safe spaces" and rise of the snowflake culture. All about special treatment and embarrassment to one part of society in favor of another as if "eye for an eye" has ever worked in history.

The race narrative hasn't been about equality for a long time in this country. Not in the truest sense of the word. The race narrative has always been about taking/giving and righting the wrongs of the past through inequality in the present.

I think that is the wrong side of history to cure our social ills and violence will result. But who am I to decide. I am just a voter in a democratic republic. The millstone of time marches on whether I want it to or not. Just like weather/global warming/climate change, what is coming is coming. We either adapt as a species and evolve as a country or perish.

I just strongly think the conservative course of action will lead to less bloodshed, violence, disruption and economic instability than a leftist, socialist platform. But that's me.

 

[Steelr4evr]

When you decide your platform is to punish a side for the sins of the past, then often there never is an end. Every step just leads to you in believing more punishment is needed.

The whole "tone" of the debate now with race in this country (and I blame much of it on our last President and his leadership) is about payment, retribution and punishment. The "white privilege" narrative feeds into this (because what that means is "white guilt"). The double standard of violence and looting when it comes to protest. The new "safe spaces" and rise of the snowflake culture. All about special treatment and embarrassment to one part of society in favor of another as if "eye for an eye" has ever worked in history.

The race narrative hasn't been about equality for a long time in this country. Not in the truest sense of the word. The race narrative has always been about taking/giving and righting the wrongs of the past through inequality in the present.

I think that is the wrong side of history to cure our social ills and violence will result. But who am I to decide. I am just a voter in a democratic republic. The millstone of time marches on whether I want it to or not. Just like weather/global warming/climate change, what is coming is coming. We either adapt as a species and evolve as a country or perish.

I just strongly think the conservative course of action will lead to less bloodshed, violence, disruption and economic instability than a leftist, socialist platform. But that's me.

I hope for the best,but prepare for the worst. The enemy is within and it's rooted deep. This obstructionist insurgency has clearly shown me that. Absolutely nothing I can do about it. I can only defend my keep. You're going to see the leftists doing a lot more attacks and instigating violence. Just wait until the presidential campaigning starts up again. Just nasty nasty stuff coming.

 

[Tibs]

You're going to see the leftists doing a lot more attacks and instigating violence.

Remind me who murdered a woman, ganged-up on and brutally beat a man in a garage and put 20 people in the hospital - several of them in critical condition - this past weekend in Charlottesville? Asking for a friend.

 

[Tibs]

The fallout from Trump's revolting 'both sides' comments continues.

Member of Trump's Evangelical Advisory Board resigns over 'conflict in values'
http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...board-resigns-over-conflict-in?rnd=1503095245

The pastor of a New York megachurch said Friday that he has resigned from President Trump's Evangelical Advisory Board, citing "a deepening conflict in values" with the administration.

Rev. A.R. Bernard, who leads the Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn, said in a statement that he had "quietly stepped away" from the panel several months ago, but submitted his formal resignation on Tuesday.

"In a social and political climate such as ours, it often takes a gathering of unlikely individuals to shape the future of our nation on issues of faith and inner city initiatives," Bernard said. "I was willing to be one of those individuals, and that is why I agreed to serve on the President's Evangelical Advisory Board."

"However, it became obvious that there was a deepening conflict in values between myself and the administration," he continued.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My statement regarding my resignation from the President's Evangelical Advisory Board. <a href="https://t.co/Ocae6SQxjZ">pic.twitter.com/Ocae6SQxjZ</a></p>— A. R. Bernard (@ARBernard) <a href="https://twitter.com/ARBernard/status/898661983146397700">August 18, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Troglodyte]

Why the hysterics?

You new around here?

 

[Tibs]

You new around here?

 

[oneforthebus]

When I grew up, I lived about 20 minutes away from Gettysburg. As you can imagine, in my small town school of predominantly white (but not all) children the Civil War was a big thing. I always think I was taught more about it then most through middle school. We had field trips there every year. I went with my parents often in addition.

I'm not here to try to argue about how much slavery and the economics of slavery had to do with the war. Some believe it was 99% of it. Others believe is was less than 50%. I'm of the opinion it was most but certainly not all of the reason the Southern States felt "enough was enough" and took such violent acts and declared War.

But all that said, one of the basic tenets of studying our Civil War was that is was "brother against brother". That is was Citizen against Citizen. That it tore our country apart and without heroic (almost impossible) leadership somehow it was brought back together. I was never taught everyone in the south was a "traitor". I was never taught that the War of Succession meant every soldier, general, leader, et. al. was an evil bigoted person. I was never taught to gloat over the North's victory or to treat people from the South differently.

For all the historic study the actual War gets, we don't often talk about reconstruction and the time period of our country's history from 1865-1920, except in the context that this was another period of racial injustice (another white guilt era like so many others) that opened our borders to Europeans in unfathomable numbers and colonized the west as the expense of Native Americans. Or the rise of our economic power and world influence culminating in our involvement in a European World War.

The Civil War might have ended with an official document/treaty in 1865, but the reconciliation of the North and South is still going on. To me, they are still my brothers. They are still fellow citizens. I will not gloat over the North's victory even if I believe it was the correct side and better for history (but certainly not perfect). Racism is wrong. To act upon bigotry and anger against a person based on the color of their skin is deplorable. To feel superior because of race alone is a path to darkness. Character is all that matters. Actions. How you live your life every ******* day. How you treat people no matter what is inside. No matter what demons you carry. No matter what statues are around or flags are flown or government is in office.

I was taught and believe Robert E. Lee actually had character. He wasn't perfect. As a military man from a southern military school, he fate was probably set given his time on earth. But I bet his character is better that half those people that protested to removing his statue. That's my gut feeling on it.

Good post. I agree that most people who grew up "Yankee" are willing to let bygones be bygones and not bash our Southern ancestors over the head for all eternity over their misguided (and common for the time period) views on slavery. I will say though that having lived in the South I feel there is an undeniable undercurrent of racism in some people's celebration of the Confederacy as heritage. Some of it was very overt 30 year ago when I lived there, probably less so now. But I can see why it gets under people's skin, and I think it's only common decency to have some sensitivity to that.

But there has to be some middle ground between proudly waving Confederate flags over modern government buildings and destroying historic artifacts.

 

[Elfiero]

I think they could be proud that they rose above terrible circumstances.

That they brought upon themselves, then for good measure they erected monuments outside courthouses and other public places to remind ex slaves and their descendants that master was still in control.

What kind of justice did they get(to this day) in those courthouses?

 

[Supersteeler]

That they brought upon themselves, then for good measure they erected monuments outside courthouses and other public places to remind ex slaves and their descendants that master was still in control.

What kind of justice did they get(to this day) in those courthouses?

Funny, I just read an article where a group of African Americans is very opposed to those statues coming down and has been protesting the rallies to get rid of them. Their reason is they feel their is real danger in washing away all traces of a history of oppression. They feel having those statues remain is a reminder of how far things have come and how much Black people have achieved in America. They think it's an insult to try and wipe out reminders that slavery happened in this country and serves an injustice to Black people everywhere.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Now that is an excellent point, one that I have no answer for. But I stand by my basic premise there's no good reason to have statues in public places and government buildings representing the losing side in any war.

Doesn't mean the losing side didn't have their fans. The Browns have fans.

Funny, I just read an article where a group of African Americans is very opposed to those statues coming down and has been protesting the rallies to get rid of them. Their reason is they feel their is real danger in washing away all traces of a history of oppression. They feel having those statues remain is a reminder of how far things have come and how much Black people have achieved in America. They think it's an insult to try and wipe out reminders that slavery happened in this country and serves an injustice to Black people everywhere.

I was gonna say, wipe out the history of slavery and the Civil War and blacks and Democrats don't have any excuses.
See, that's what I think this whole thing is about. Dems are realizing that some blacks have caught on to them after 50 years and figured out that the Dems aren't really their friends. So then they have to gin up some more racial flames.

 

[Elfiero]

The fallout from Trump's revolting 'both sides' comments continues.

Member of Trump's Evangelical Advisory Board resigns over 'conflict in values'
http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...board-resigns-over-conflict-in?rnd=1503095245




<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My statement regarding my resignation from the President's Evangelical Advisory Board. <a href="https://t.co/Ocae6SQxjZ">pic.twitter.com/Ocae6SQxjZ</a></p>— A. R. Bernard (@ARBernard) <a href="https://twitter.com/ARBernard/status/898661983146397700">August 18, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The evangelicals voted for Trump at about 80%. They have a lot of repenting to do, now they want to distance themselves....how you can consider yourself a Christian and still go into a voting both and vote for Trump is a great example of just how deluded the religious are.

 

[Tibs]

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[Elfiero]

Funny, I just read an article where a group of African Americans is very opposed to those statues coming down and has been protesting the rallies to get rid of them. Their reason is they feel their is real danger in washing away all traces of a history of oppression. They feel having those statues remain is a reminder of how far things have come and how much Black people have achieved in America. They think it's an insult to try and wipe out reminders that slavery happened in this country and serves an injustice to Black people everywhere.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't think it's a valid one though when you consider how those symbols were used as part of a greater oppressive strategy.

History can be taught in the classroom, and if need be those symbols can be moved to a central area away from public institutions to be visited on field trips.

 

[Elfiero]

When you decide your platform is to punish a side for the sins of the past, then often there never is an end. Every step just leads to you in believing more punishment is needed.

The whole "tone" of the debate now with race in this country (and I blame much of it on our last President and his leadership) is about payment, retribution and punishment. The "white privilege" narrative feeds into this (because what that means is "white guilt"). The double standard of violence and looting when it comes to protest. The new "safe spaces" and rise of the snowflake culture. All about special treatment and embarrassment to one part of society in favor of another as if "eye for an eye" has ever worked in history.

The race narrative hasn't been about equality for a long time in this country. Not in the truest sense of the word. The race narrative has always been about taking/giving and righting the wrongs of the past through inequality in the present.

I think that is the wrong side of history to cure our social ills and violence will result. But who am I to decide. I am just a voter in a democratic republic. The millstone of time marches on whether I want it to or not. Just like weather/global warming/climate change, what is coming is coming. We either adapt as a species and evolve as a country or perish.

I just strongly think the conservative course of action will lead to less bloodshed, violence, disruption and economic instability than a leftist, socialist platform. But that's me.

So you're against the death penalty?

Here let me save us some time........NOT!



CONservatives...........................................

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't think it's a valid one though when you consider how those symbols were used as part of a greater oppressive strategy.

History can be taught in the classroom, and if need be those symbols can be moved to a central area away from public institutions to be visited on field trips.

Why did it take people 125 years to figure this out?

 

[Steelin]

Why did it take people 125 years to figure this out?

Obviously our privilege was blinding us to the truth. Duh.

 

[jitter77]

Charles Barkley the voice of reason?!?

Here is his comments on the statues

“I’ve always ignored them!” he said. “Rick, I’m 54 years old. I’ve never thought about those statues a day in my life. I think if you asked most black people to be honest, they ain’t thought a day in their life about those stupid statues. What we as black people need to do: We need to worry about getting our education, we need to stop killing each other, we need to try to find a way to have more economic opportunity and things like that. Those things are important and significant. You know, I’m wasting time and energy [if I’m] screaming at a neo-Nazi, or [saying] ‘Man, you’ve got to take this statue down.’ ”

 

[deljzc]

The Round Mound of Rebounds is right.... He has always said blacks need to take care of their own problems instead of always finding something to blame.