Initial thoughts on browns Game

[Steeltime]

Word of advice: This is simply not going to change until Tomlin decides to retire. The endless string of nail-biters and losses to flaccid losing teams will continue. The "no losing season" 10-7 or 9-7-1 bowl, with a 1st round playoff stomping, will continue. The same predictable offense and failure to utilize weapons will continue. The Groundhog Day of "we don't need to change the scheme, just execute better" will continue.

Don't sweat it. Grown men wearing pajamas and getting paid exorbitant amounts of money to chase a ball are not worth getting upset about. At this point in my life, I just cannot get worked up over what happens with a game involving a bunch of people who don't know me and don't care about me.

 

[TimesAreChanged]

Word of advice: This is simply not going to change until Tomlin decides to retire. The endless string of nail-biters and losses to flaccid losing teams will continue. The "no losing season" 10-7 or 9-7-1 bowl, with a 1st round playoff stomping, will continue. The same predictable offense and failure to utilize weapons will continue. The Groundhog Day of "we don't need to change the scheme, just execute better" will continue.

Don't sweat it. Grown men wearing pajamas and getting paid exorbitant amounts of money to chase a ball are not worth getting upset about. At this point in my life, I just cannot get worked up over what happens with a game involving a bunch of people who don't know me and don't care about me.

Totally agree. As soon as Tomlin retires, they'll be undefeated and each game will be a blowout. Other teams probably know this and pay his salary and expenses. They may even toss him 5 or 10 million in briefcases so he keeps working. Wonder how many teams are in on it. All 3 AFCN teams at least.

 

[Steeltime]

Totally agree. As soon as Tomlin retires, they'll be undefeated and each game will be a blowout. Other teams probably know this and pay his salary and expenses. They may even toss him 5 or 10 million in briefcases so he keeps working. Wonder how many teams are in on it. All 3 AFCN teams at least.

Right, Tomlin is so amazing, incredible. No losing season!!

Took over a team with a HOF QB, a HOF RB, a HOF safety, a HOF guard, a soon-to-be HOF WR, an elite DE, an elite OLB, an elite TE, and won a SB then went to a 2nd SB.

Since then? 3-8 playoff record and the longest drought for a playoff win since the wonderful pre-Noll years.

Repeat, Mike Tomlin has the longest playoff drought for any Steelers teams since before the club hired Chuck Noll.

Tomlin is also 0-3 against the last 3 teams he faced with a record of 2-8 or worse. Yeah, the problem was Bruce Arians, no it was Todd Haley, nope it was actually Randy Fichtner, okay it was actually Matt Canada, no really the problem is Arthur Smith.

Got it. You bet. Tomlin is so amazing, I feel sorry for the next 2-8 or 1-7 team that he ***-kicks.

 

[IndySteel]

 

[NYSteel]

You can't expect big things from any QB in those conditions, I do agree with the rest. The defense is overrated, TJ is great but he can't take over games 100% of the time. Its always the same story, if TJ doesn't play lights out we don't have enough talent to make up the difference.
We have the inability to run the ball in short yardage situations. The 230+ pound Harris is awful in those 3rd an 4th and short,
he's been so bad they don't even attempt it half the time, and that's supposed to be what he is good at? He was looking like a different guy for a short stretch but has shown us the past 3 games he still isn't the guy and never has been consistently. Think of the great Steelers snow games from Jerome Bettis running over Urlacher in the red zone, or Leveon Bell putting up 300 and 3 TD against the Bills.
Snow games are up to the run game and defense to win. Steelers Run game and defense are average at best.

As a counterpoint on the QB play in the snow, Winston looked pretty credible outside of the bad int in 4Q.

Point being, players react differently to the conditions. Our guy was out played last night, in my opinion.

Defense was 0-4 on 4th down I believe too. It's 5pm, and I'm still annoyed.... Lol.... Time for a scotch.

 

[SteelerFan448]

After time to digest...

The offense was built for a game like this. Snow, cold, wind...it was set up for a dominating offensive performance on the ground. Najee should've rolled for 100+ yards and a couple of scores. He looked like he didn't want to run in the cold. Warren had a solid game, but only 11 carries.

The passing game put up stats, they just lack consistency to maintain drives. Part of that was all of the presnap penalties. Completely absurd in what sounded like a completely dead atmosphere. Unless the game wasn't mic'ed up outside of the pounding metal sound, that crowd was quiet last night.

I get we say Tomlin lives in his fears and is too conservative, but last night was not the night to go full cowboy mode on fourth downs. It was reckless. Plus, the play calls were uninspiring and fed right into the teeth of the defense. Even when they tried to get creative, it became predictable with Fields. Luckily he is a great athlete and had that terrific run late in the game.

Defensively, you pay these guys that much money to win close games like this. The Steelers have now lost games from blown leads to the two worst teams on their schedule so far. They had another where Joe Flacco carved them up. Is this defense incapable of getting up for a game against a poor opponent?

I am going to double down that the coaches had their worst performance in years. This isn't the same as Matt Canada level incompetence, but rather qualified coaches who flat out did a terrible job against a team that's already planning their offseason vacations.

 

[SteelerSask2]

The official explanation was 68 reported eligible. He was on the right end and even though the left end had the ball at his feet when the QB flung the ball to avoid the sack that are saying that might have been effected by Queen contacting Crab legs as he flung it which is pretty much laughable but I guess not surprising. Like look at the ****** play man.

 

[Steelmann]

My my. It seems like yesterday when after a fake punt failed on 4th and 15 from your own 16 we were being told by some how brilliant Tomlin was….how he doesn’t live in his fears…how.now you lived in fear if you didn’t agree with his call….how he has put the NFL on notice. And various other things.

I’ve said this since the Tebow disaster convinced me in 2011. He will get us close. But never over the hump. I have yet to see anything in the past 13 years since that game to change my mind.
He obviously has many positives as a coach. With many negatives as well. While we are doing better than I expected this season, who here has the confidence that when it absolutely matters he is the guy to lead the team.

Sure every team plays flat during the season. And it was only one game….blah,blah,blah. But how can anyone deny this disturbing trend that just keeps on happening the last 13 years. The fans that watch every snap know. Not the national media that watch the highlights. Yesterday I was told that “all you clowns just live for the bad games” when someone had the audacity to critique the coaching.

Well this “clown “ does certainly not live for the bad games. And has shown up to criticize. I could list numerous points from yesterday,but I’m sure they’ve all been covered. That was one of the worst coached games I have seen in a hell of a long time.

That was a big game to lose. Monday rant over. On to the next game.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I don’t know..
lost some sleep.. buts it’s always cool to watch an outdoor football game in a snow storm!
Just wish the results were different obviously.,

The outdoor game is better in n snow without non stop clanging of trash cans

But it was in the dumpster so it was expected

 

[NoKap#7]

View attachment 13443

The level of stupidity of some Steelers fans. Let me put some perspective on the last 7 seasons of no playoff wins....

1) if you're not winning a SB who cares??
2) the last seven SB winning QBs...Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Matthew Stafford.

There's nothing else to explain beyond that unless you're a complete moron.

 

[steel dino]

Are there any indoor games in snow storms?

negative....

you got me.

 

[Steelr4evr]

The level of stupidity of some Steelers fans. Let me put some perspective on the last 7 seasons of no playoff wins....

1) if you're not winning a SB who cares??
2) the last seven SB winning QBs...Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Matthew Stafford.

There's nothing else to explain beyond that unless you're a complete moron.

The level of nut hugging by some fans gives me a serious belly laugh every time.

I can tell many have lowered their standards. They probably don't even know what the standard is or who set it.


We're not here yet this year,but this is what the last 10+ years has been..


After awhile all of that rah rah **** goes out the door.

 

[jitter77]

You're down coming off the L. One game at a time and they have time to rest and game plan. Minkah is on my list since Bills playoff game. JPJ is solid. I think they split and win the division and make a deep run. 10 months ago no one would have predicted this. Can't be unhappy brother

Not really down after a loss just being realistic. Balt gave us the game and we still almost lost. We didn't score a TD for 7 quarters. Cle has a solid D, but Ravens do not. We just seem to be regressing going into a brutal stretch

 

[Drink IRON City]

Every team has been doing a decent job at that lately. Even if it is simply holding him. Our defense needs to use the double and triple teaming on Watt to our advantage. We simply rush a standard 4 person attack. Vanilla actually.

Tomlin’s team have been relatively easy / consistent targets to scheme against. It’s been that way for quite some time so as that tells me it’s Tomlin’s scheme, more than the players being used to implement it.

Cleveland’s coach would prosper deeply if he were here in Pittsburgh as the HC.


Salute the nation

 

[SteelerSask2]

Gonna say this once. They were gonna lose games. Was afraid they would lose both Washington, Baltimore. Won both. Need to bounce back. That's all.

 

[Drink IRON City]

My my. It seems like yesterday when after a fake punt failed on 4th and 15 from your own 16 we were being told by some how brilliant Tomlin was….how he doesn’t live in his fears…how.now you lived in fear if you didn’t agree with his call….how he has put the NFL on notice. And various other things.

I’ve said this since the Tebow disaster convinced me in 2011. He will get us close. But never over the hump. I have yet to see anything in the past 13 years since that game to change my mind.
He obviously has many positives as a coach. With many negatives as well. While we are doing better than I expected this season, who here has the confidence that when it absolutely matters he is the guy to lead the team.

Sure every team plays flat during the season. And it was only one game….blah,blah,blah. But how can anyone deny this disturbing trend that just keeps on happening the last 13 years. The fans that watch every snap know. Not the national media that watch the highlights. Yesterday I was told that “all you clowns just live for the bad games” when someone had the audacity to critique the coaching.

Well this “clown “ does certainly not live for the bad games. And has shown up to criticize. I could list numerous points from yesterday,but I’m sure they’ve all been covered. That was one of the worst coached games I have seen in a hell of a long time.

That was a big game to lose. Monday rant over. On to the next game.

I’m with you Steelmann, right there. Groundhog Day seems to come year after year after year, but always the same **** different year.

Clevelands HC Coach definately out coached Tom Lin. Stefinowski (sp) I think is pretty solid, minus the Watson forced on him, that the Browns would be foolish to change HC.

No9t advocating for Stefnowski, but saying there is a chance to find better out there.


Saluter the nation

 

[warriors42]

My my. It seems like yesterday when after a fake punt failed on 4th and 15 from your own 16 we were being told by some how brilliant Tomlin was….how he doesn’t live in his fears…how.now you lived in fear if you didn’t agree with his call….how he has put the NFL on notice. And various other things.

I’ve said this since the Tebow disaster convinced me in 2011. He will get us close. But never over the hump. I have yet to see anything in the past 13 years since that game to change my mind.
He obviously has many positives as a coach. With many negatives as well. While we are doing better than I expected this season, who here has the confidence that when it absolutely matters he is the guy to lead the team.

Sure every team plays flat during the season. And it was only one game….blah,blah,blah. But how can anyone deny this disturbing trend that just keeps on happening the last 13 years. The fans that watch every snap know. Not the national media that watch the highlights. Yesterday I was told that “all you clowns just live for the bad games” when someone had the audacity to critique the coaching.

Well this “clown “ does certainly not live for the bad games. And has shown up to criticize. I could list numerous points from yesterday,but I’m sure they’ve all been covered. That was one of the worst coached games I have seen in a hell of a long time.

That was a big game to lose. Monday rant over. On to the next game.

I was probably the the biggest proponent of his 4th down call in that game. I felt it was a great call because nobody expected it. I own that and still stand by that statement. however That is not the same thing as miss managing timeouts and looking totally lost on that illegal touching penalty. It seems like he has no clue as to what to do with TJ. the boner he has for Wilson is mind boggling 90% of the play calling is also mind boggling.

Calling a fake punt on 4th down on your own 16 yard line may seem stupid but to me the element of surprise out weighed the risk, again it was Tomlin no one on the planet saw that coming and it should have worked. Under THOSE same circumstances I would run that play ten out of ten times but that's just me.. I respect your difference of opinion, we just don't see that play the same way and that's cool. I do however agree with pretty much everything else you said.

 

[NoKap#7]

The level of nut hugging by some fans gives me a serious belly laugh every time.

I can tell many have lowered their standards. They probably don't even know what the standard is or who set it.


We're not here yet this year,but this is what the last 10+ years has been..


After awhile all of that rah rah **** goes ou

The level of nut hugging by some fans gives me a serious belly laugh every time.

I can tell many have lowered their standards. They probably don't even know what the standard is or who set it.


We're not here yet this year,but this is what the last 10+ years has been..


After awhile all of that rah rah **** goes out the door.

I don't think anybody has lowered their standards...but most of us also understand he hasn't been working with anywhere close to franchise level QBs (2017-2018 season being the exception) at least in the last 7 years...which is typically what it takes to win any playoff games much less a SB. RW was that dude at one time and still has a little left, but hes not franchise anymore. It's called being rational and objective knowing full well any coach in the league would be in the same position, if not worse, if they had the stable of QBs that he's had to work with.

I would have been fine with them not renewing his last contract (although i wouldnt have liked it), but i always felt he deserved to have a another chance to coach another true franchise QB on a rookie contract, because i think he's that good of a coach. If he couldn't win with the rookie on the franchise contract then don't renew his contract to continue beyond the rookie contract.

 

[Steeltime]

Clevelands HC Coach definately out coached Tom Lin.

To be fair, DIC, Tomlin was outcoached in January of 2021 by a Browns coach who was not even at the stadium due to Covid!

Also, please, please, please, please, PLEASE don't call him "Tom Lin" and make him part Asian. The team would NEVER be able to fire him!

 

[Aussie_Steeler]

To be fair, DIC, Tomlin was outcoached in January of 2021 by a Browns coach who was not even at the stadium due to Covid!

Also, please, please, please, please, PLEASE don't call him "Tom Lin" and make him part Asian. The team would NEVER be able to fire him!

Worse still Lin is a female name so that makes Tom Lin the ultimate EEO hire.

 

[SteelerSask2]

I think there is micro level reactions to Tomlin when he is really in charge of the macro level. If you are going to have this reaction to this loss you can't really discount wins vs Commanders and Ravens. In the end the players win or lose the games. It's coaches that try to put them there. Are we gonna pretend that Watt, Herbig, Heyward, Porter isn't wishing they made a play to end that game cause they could have. The 3rd and 7 vs 4th and 2 is hindsight. My guess is analytics got involved but that is tough with weather conditions. Probably best was 4th and 2 zero coverage bring house. Hope for knock down at line. Ball play or hurried throw. But its hindsight.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I think there is micro level reactions to Tomlin when he is really in charge of the macro level. If you are going to have this reaction to this loss you can't really discount wins vs Commanders and Ravens. In the end the players win or lose the games. It's coaches that try to put them there. Are we gonna pretend that Watt, Herbig, Heyward, Porter isn't wishing they made a play to end that game cause they could have. The 3rd and 7 vs 4th and 2 is hindsight. My guess is analytics got involved but that is tough with weather conditions. Probably best was 4th and 2 zero coverage bring house. Hope for knock down at line. Ball play or hurried throw. But its hindsight.

When has Tomlin ever coached with analytics? He coached those situational downs differently than he coaches almost every other week. Ultra-aggressive under those circumstances wasn't the wise move. He just dropped the ball with his decisions.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

i rewatched the game on the NFL Network replay. They showed the alternate Prime analytics version which is shot mostly from the cable cam, so it shows most of the WR routes. Here's my takeaways.

Smith wants to use tight formations with multiple TEs and a dominant run game. That's a good goal and maybe they will be able to do that next year when Fautanu gets back and Frazier and McCormick have more experience, and they draft another TE. But this year it is not gonna happen.

This OL is better than the past few years but it's mediocre overall. They are not a dominant unit. Washington is the only TE that's an above average blocker. Freiermuth is willing but he's a receiver and isn't going to be more than just OK. Pruit and heyward and just OK as well.

The point is, when the steelers use big personnel and tight formations, it invites the defense to load the box. In this situation the steelers are actually at a disadvantage against a good defense that loads the box. They just aren't good enough to run against a loaded box on a consistent basis.

When they use these formations, it means fewer routes being run. Routes that are easy to cover if the run game isn't working.

Wilson played a great game. The WRs were barely open on most completions and Russ completed a bunch of throws with anticipation into tight windows.

Detroit has a great run game that opens up thier pass game. That's what the Steelers want. But Detroit has an excellent OL and blocking TEs, plus they have St Brown, Jameson Williams, and some other good WRs i don't feel like looking up right now.

Steelers don't have the dominant blocking. If you can't outmuscle a defense then you have to spread them out. Steelers used more spread out formations in the 2nd half and the offense was better. They have to start using more multiple WR sets over the big formations.

 

[Punxsutawney]

The level of stupidity of some Steelers fans. Let me put some perspective on the last 7 seasons of no playoff wins....

1) if you're not winning a SB who cares??
2) the last seven SB winning QBs...Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Matthew Stafford.

There's nothing else to explain beyond that unless you're a complete moron.

You forgot the Eagles winning a Superbowl with the great Nick Foles. The 49ers nearly won it all with Jimmy Garappolo not long ago.

A franchise QB is definitely a huge advantage, but it is possible to win at least a playoff game or two every seven years without one.

Regardless of the perspective you try to apply to it, the inability to do so reflects pure ineptness on Tomlin's part, as they've hardly even been competitive in their last five playoff losses with their opponents averaging around 40 points per game. Is that all because of the QB position?

Plus, it's not like Tomlin was killing it in the playoffs for much of Roethlisberger's prime prior to the elbow surgery, especially considering there were years they missed all together. The cherry on top was probably Ben's last prime year in 2018 when the team started 7-2-1, only to collapse and end up sitting at home in January.

 

[Punxsutawney]

i rewatched the game on the NFL Network replay. They showed the alternate Prime analytics version which is shot mostly from the cable cam, so it shows most of the WR routes. Here's my takeaways.

Smith wants to use tight formations with multiple TEs and a dominant run game. That's a good goal and maybe they will be able to do that next year when Fautanu gets back and Frazier and McCormick have more experience, and they draft another TE. But this year it is not gonna happen.

This OL is better than the past few years but it's mediocre overall. They are not a dominant unit. Washington is the only TE that's an above average blocker. Freiermuth is willing but he's a receiver and isn't going to be more than just OK. Pruit and heyward and just OK as well.

The point is, when the steelers use big personnel and tight formations, it invites the defense to load the box. In this situation the steelers are actually at a disadvantage against a good defense that loads the box. They just aren't good enough to run against a loaded box on a consistent basis.

When they use these formations, it means fewer routes being run. Routes that are easy to cover if the run game isn't working.

Wilson played a great game. The WRs were barely open on most completions and Russ completed a bunch of throws with anticipation into tight windows.

Detroit has a great run game that opens up thier pass game. That's what the Steelers want. But Detroit has an excellent OL and blocking TEs, plus they have St Brown, Jameson Williams, and some other good WRs i don't feel like looking up right now.

Steelers don't have the dominant blocking. If you can't outmuscle a defense then you have to spread them out. Steelers used more spread out formations in the 2nd half and the offense was better. They have to start using more multiple WR sets over the big formations.

I'm with you on Wilson

I'm not sure about "great," but I thought he played really well. He averaged around 10 yards per pass, and despite people complaining about him holding onto the ball, around half of the few incompletions he had were throw aways.

The inability to convert in short yardage situations is what killed them against the Browns.

As you said, the OL is not able to consistently overpower defenses and they try to force it too much, especially on early downs in the redzone.

I'm also not crazy about them substituting Fields as often as they did. The offense just doesn't operate as smoothly with him in there. Everything seems rushed, with pre snap penalties being a common occurrence.

The timing was ten ways of ****** up on the first 4th down attempt.