Maybe i've been wrong...and hope

[Badcat]

Right. I don't view that as giving up attitude. I view that as reality. I enjoy the Steelers. I enjoy talking Steeler football. I enjoy discussing the various philosophies, for lack of a better word, of being a fan. I will see how the year progresses. If they show to be something to invest time in, I will do so to some degree. If not, no big deal. There are fall trout to chase, birds to hunt and so on, which to be honest, I will do even if they are worth investing time in. As I have gotten older the reality hits you that we are all just visiting, and it is getting harder on a beautiful Sunday afternoon to sit in front of the TV regardless of how good they are.

Amen brother.

 

[SojournerSteel]

I know that. That's why I don't listen to a thing he says. I loved Cowher but in listening to him I learned that. Noll never said anything, anyway. It was Cowher where I figured that out, because he'd change his statement to suit his argument. When they were having some tough years from 1998-2000, he was asked why not play younger players to see what you have. He said something about the integrity of the game. But when they made the playoffs they'd sit guys and play the younger guys...what about the integrity of the game? It didn't make me mad or anything, I just laughed and realized not to listen to the bullshiit coaches spew.

I remember in the mid-late 90's it dawned on me that Cowher was more of an emotional firebrand coach than X's and O's and it was sort of a deflating revelation in terms of thinking he would ever win a SB especially after the teams played so right in AFCCGs against lesser competition a few times. It took Big Ben = godsend and missing TB/BB in the playoffs to get over that hump.

Tomlin is not so much a firebrand as a politician riding his salesmanship and lift he gets from a largely sycophant media as "the HC NFL players would most like to play for." Akin to a popular politician who does little but will never face a primary challenge because of his popularity and backing. Giving benefit of the doubt that he is mostly capable with defense, the real Xs and Os deficiency obviously comes with his lack of understanding of modern offense. I feel he's the wrong coach at the wrong time even if the argument can be made that he was the right coach at the right time from 2007-10. That was a long time ago.

"The reason they hire you is the reason they fire you." (or should)

Tomlin would have to hit it VERY big in the QB lottery to ever win another SB here and even that is in question when we look at how mixed the results were with Ben '12-'18. His ceiling right now is maybe winning one playoff game and even that appears far away in the next 1-2 years.

 

[diver]

I remember in the mid-late 90's it dawned on me that Cowher was more of an emotional firebrand coach than X's and O's and it was sort of a deflating revelation in terms of thinking he would ever win a SB especially after the teams played so right in AFCCGs against lesser competition a few times. It took Big Ben = godsend and missing TB/BB in the playoffs to get over that hump.

Tomlin is not so much a firebrand as a politician riding his salesmanship and lift he gets from a largely sycophant media as "the HC NFL players would most like to play for." Akin to a popular politician who does little but will never face a primary challenge because of his popularity and backing. Giving benefit of the doubt that he is mostly capable with defense, the real Xs and Os deficiency obviously comes with his lack of understanding of modern offense. I feel he's the wrong coach at the wrong time even if the argument can be made that he was the right coach at the right time from 2007-10. That was a long time ago.

"The reason they hire you is the reason they fire you." (or should)

Tomlin would have to hit it VERY big in the QB lottery to ever win another SB here and even that is in question when we look at how mixed the results were with Ben '12-'18. His ceiling right now is maybe winning one playoff game and even that appears far away in the next 1-2 years.

I agree with what you say here. But the part I bolded...tell me what coach today that doesn't?

 

[steelhurt]

I’m older and I can tell you advanced age has nothing to do with how you feel about the Steelers.
I look at the team objectively and what I’ve seen around there for a very long time is simply mediocre results. Year in, year out, same old crap, mediocrity.
With Ben, without Ben, with the recent carousel of starting QBs it’s always the same, mediocre results.
Imo most of Ben’s career was wasted with poor coaching.
Aside from Ben’s early years of great success, 2011 thru 2021 with better overall coaching would have gone a long way in getting Ben back to the SB.
What I think the issue is with the Steelers is stubbornness and unwillingness to to move into today’s NFL. That’s on Rooney who just won’t budge.
You simply don’t win today with strong defense and an offense that wants to pound the ball. It’s about lighting up the scoreboard and fast.
KC has that type of offense but their defense is young and fast.
This team is stuck in the mud with an antiquated coach who still thinks you can win with ground and pound offense and strong defense. It won’t work!
You might muck out 8,9,even 10 wins with a moderately weak schedule, but if you make the playoffs the results are the same. You cannot compete with these elite offenses.
Look at SF with Kyle Shanahan. He’s winning and his offense plays the game the way it should be played with Brock Purdy as his QB.
Shanahan had a plan and how he wanted to play offense and he brought in the guys he thought would make his offense work.
Mike Tomlin orchestrates a hodge podge of nothingness with his offense. You really never know what the hell he’s trying to accomplish.
They throw all their money in the defense and all that’s happening is the stars are getting older and closer to the end.
One playoff win since 2016 gets almost ALL HCs fired but not this one.
They are stuck in the middle and the immediate future looks more if the same.

 

[SojournerSteel]

I agree with what you say here. But the part I bolded...tell me what coach today that doesn't?

I guess that's the conundrum as his Super Bowl every year is having the team in contention the last week of the season and of course Tomlin wins the banquet/pro days/gladhanding/offseason championship every year now it seems because the players really love Coach T as Madden likes to say.

They likely aren't going to bottom out enough to land a can't miss guy, and they probably aren't sharp enough at QB evaluation to uncover a Mahomes or even Brock Purdy after pick 20. So, keeping the team in contention until Week 18 is kind of the benchmark now and "standard" although everyone will say Championship is the goal. It might be best for all parties for Tomlin to go to the booth or to another program drafting really high if there is to be change.

 

[SojournerSteel]

I’m older and I can tell you advanced age has nothing to do with how you feel about the Steelers.
I look at the team objectively and what I’ve seen around there for a very long time is simply mediocre results. Year in, year out, same old crap, mediocrity.
With Ben, without Ben, with the recent carousel of starting QBs it’s always the same, mediocre results.
Imo most of Ben’s career was wasted with poor coaching.
Aside from Ben’s early years of great success, 2011 thru 2021 with better overall coaching would have gone a long way in getting Ben back to the SB.
What I think the issue is with the Steelers is stubbornness and unwillingness to to move into today’s NFL. That’s on Rooney who just won’t budge.
You simply don’t win today with strong defense and an offense that wants to pound the ball. It’s about lighting up the scoreboard and fast.
KC has that type of offense but their defense is young and fast.
This team is stuck in the mud with an antiquated coach who still thinks you can win with ground and pound offense and strong defense. It won’t work!
You might muck out 8,9,even 10 wins with a moderately weak schedule, but if you make the playoffs the results are the same. You cannot compete with these elite offenses.
Look at SF with Kyle Shanahan. He’s winning and his offense plays the game the way it should be played with Brock Purdy as his QB.
Shanahan had a plan and how he wanted to play offense and he brought in the guys he thought would make his offense work.
Mike Tomlin orchestrates a hodge podge of nothingness with his offense. You really never know what the hell he’s trying to accomplish.
They throw all their money in the defense and all that’s happening is the stars are getting older and closer to the end.
One playoff win since 2016 gets almost ALL HCs fired but not this one.
They are stuck in the middle and the immediate future looks more if the same.

Since I'm going through some hoops trying to find a better ISP than DSL, let me just say that the Steelers are definitely DSL in a fiber or 5G world. Their infrastructure and philosophy at times seem as antiquated as 1960's phone lines. And they can't seem to get the fiber in their neighborhood even though it's just a few streets over.

 

[diver]

I’m older and I can tell you advanced age has nothing to do with how you feel about the Steelers.
I look at the team objectively and what I’ve seen around there for a very long time is simply mediocre results. Year in, year out, same old crap, mediocrity.
With Ben, without Ben, with the recent carousel of starting QBs it’s always the same, mediocre results.
Imo most of Ben’s career was wasted with poor coaching.
Aside from Ben’s early years of great success, 2011 thru 2021 with better overall coaching would have gone a long way in getting Ben back to the SB.
What I think the issue is with the Steelers is stubbornness and unwillingness to to move into today’s NFL. That’s on Rooney who just won’t budge.
You simply don’t win today with strong defense and an offense that wants to pound the ball. It’s about lighting up the scoreboard and fast.
KC has that type of offense but their defense is young and fast.
This team is stuck in the mud with an antiquated coach who still thinks you can win with ground and pound offense and strong defense. It won’t work!
You might muck out 8,9,even 10 wins with a moderately weak schedule, but if you make the playoffs the results are the same. You cannot compete with these elite offenses.
Look at SF with Kyle Shanahan. He’s winning and his offense plays the game the way it should be played with Brock Purdy as his QB.
Shanahan had a plan and how he wanted to play offense and he brought in the guys he thought would make his offense work.
Mike Tomlin orchestrates a hodge podge of nothingness with his offense. You really never know what the hell he’s trying to accomplish.
They throw all their money in the defense and all that’s happening is the stars are getting older and closer to the end.
One playoff win since 2016 gets almost ALL HCs fired but not this one.
They are stuck in the middle and the immediate future looks more if the same.

I do wonder about some of that. KC and Buffalo where bumbling around some mid year last year, then they focused more on the running game and turned things around. KC wasn't that lighting quick scoring team neasrly as much as they had been in winning the Super Bowl last year. You used SF as an example. They aren't that light it up quick offense, either. A staple of of their offense is running he football.

I think you can win running the ball. I'm not sure that is the issue with the Steeler offense. It's just overall ineptitude.

 

[jitter77]

I agree somewhat, but Cowher helped build the team and he also seemed to let his assistants do their jobs. We also seemed to progress further into the playoffs under Cowher.
Under Tomlin we are having trouble building any kind of identity and alot of time the team lacks intensity. To be fair Cowher didn't have to deal with the wokeness and all the politically correct BS. I still think Cowher is a much much better coach than Tomlin

 

[steelhurt]

I’m older and I can tell you advanced age has nothing to do with how you feel about the Steelers.
I look at the team objectively and what I’ve seen around there for a very long time is simply mediocre results. Year in, year out, same old crap, mediocrity.
With Ben, without Ben, with the recent carousel of starting QBs it’s always the same, mediocre results.
Imo most of Ben’s career was wasted with poor coaching.
Aside from Ben’s early years of great success, 2011 thru 2021 with better overall coaching would have gone a long way in getting Ben back to the SB.
What I think the issue is with the Steelers is stubbornness and unwillingness to to move into today’s NFL. That’s on Rooney who just won’t budge.
You simply don’t win today with strong defense and an offense that wants to pound the ball. It’s about lighting up the scoreboard and fast.
KC has that type of offense but their defense is young and fast.
This team is stuck in the mud with an antiquated coach who still thinks you can win with ground and pound offense and strong defense. It won’t work!
You might muck out 8,9,even 10 wins with a moderately weak schedule, but if you make the playoffs the results are the same. You cannot compete with these elite offenses.
Look at SF with Kyle Shanahan. He’s winning and his offense plays the game the way it should be played with Brock Purdy as his QB.
Shanahan had a plan and how he wanted to play offense and he brought in the guys he thought would make his offense work.
Mike Tomlin orchestrates a hodge podge of nothingness with his offense. You really never know what the hell he’s trying to accomplish.
They throw all their money in the defense and all that’s happening is the stars are getting older and closer to the end.
One playoff win since 2016 gets almost ALL HCs fired but not this one.
They are stuck in the middle and the immediate future looks more if the same.

I do wonder about some of that. KC and Buffalo where bumbling around some mid year last year, then they focused more on the running game and turned things around. KC wasn't that lighting quick scoring team neasrly as much as they had been in winning the Super Bowl last year. You used SF as an example. They aren't that light it up quick offense, either. A staple of of their offense is running he football.

I think you can win running the ball. I'm not sure that is the issue with the Steeler offense. It's just overall ineptitude.

Good points by you. I do think the running game helped both Buffalo and KC but they can score quickly through the air. Now in fairness to the Steelers we don’t have anything close to a Mahomes or Allen and that’s an issue, a big issue.
Hell, we don’t anything close to Brock Purdy and they’d a problem. SF does have a nice running game as well but they can score through the air quickly. They blew up our vaunted defense last season.
I just think for too many years Tomlin’s offense has been nothing more than a hodgepodge of absolute nothingness. No rythem, poor schemes, poor execution, no accountability.

 

[Steelmann]

I agree with what you say here. But the part I bolded...tell me what coach today that doesn't?

I fully agree with you Diver. Looking at SB winning teams it’s obviously easier to win it with the Franchise type QB.
I think what most are saying is Tomlin had the Franchise QB. It’s been since 2010 . We haven’t sniffed a SB since then and the arrow has definitely pointed downwards. It’s been a long time. And let’s face it In the meantime Even with moderate regular season success,In my mind we haven’t even been close to the upper tier teams when it matters. Cheers.

 

[BLITZ]

I fully agree with you Diver. Looking at SB winning teams it’s obviously easier to win it with the Franchise type QB.
I think what most are saying is Tomlin had the Franchise QB. It’s been since 2010 . We haven’t sniffed a SB since then and the arrow has definitely pointed downwards. It’s been a long time. And let’s face it In the meantime Even with moderate regular season success,In my mind we haven’t even been close to the upper tier teams when it matters. Cheers.

It is a big joke here to say that Tomlin has never had a losing season.

You know who will neverb have a losing season?- Big Ben. Tomlin was along for the ride. Ben was a special QB. I am glad we had him for so long.

 

[SteelerFan448]

You know who will neverb have a losing season?- Big Ben. Tomlin was along for the ride. Ben was a special QB. I am glad we had him for so long.

I knew how great Roethlisberger was and appreciated having him at QB the entire time. Even so, I think he was even better than I thought given how this team has gone since he retired.

 

[Punxsutawney]

It is a big joke here to say that Tomlin has never had a losing season.

You know who will neverb have a losing season?- Big Ben. Tomlin was along for the ride. Ben was a special QB. I am glad we had him for so long.

Let's not sell Tomlin short now.

He's managed two additional glorious non-losing seasons since Ben retired.

The Steelers also went 8-8 the year Ben missed with elbow surgery.

Tomlin is just that damned good.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I knew how great Roethlisberger was and appreciated having him at QB the entire time. Even so, I think he was even better than I thought given how this team has gone since he retired.

Though the offense was obviously a lot better with Ben, it's not like the Steelers were killing it overall during his last decade with the team.

I believe they won only three playoff games in the last 10 seasons in which he played.

They've managed winning records and "one and done" without him.

 

[BLITZ]

Though the offense was obviously a lot better with Ben, it's not like the Steelers were killing it overall during his last decade with the team.

I believe they won only three playoff games in the last 10 seasons in which he played.

They've managed winning records and "one and done" without him.

I would take 2020 Ben over any Qb on our roster

 

[steelcan58]

Canada was unqualified to be an NFL OC. He did not have a great track record in college, with one solid season and one very good season as OC. The rest weren't particularly strong, so it's no surprise he failed and he'll never get an NFL OC job again...probably never get a major college OC job again either.

Since you mentioned Austin, he isn't as be as some believe he is, but he's not great either. Playing Fitzpatrick out of position last year and taking away his biggest strength was just dumb.

I'll believe Austin is a decent DC the minute he devises a scheme to get Watt, Highsmith and Herbig on the field at the same time. The impact players we now have on defense (Minkah, JPJ, Queen, Wilson, Heyward if healthy) this should be a top defense in the league. Imagine if LeBeau had these weapons.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Though the offense was obviously a lot better with Ben, it's not like the Steelers were killing it overall during his last decade with the team.

I believe they won only three playoff games in the last 10 seasons in which he played.

They've managed winning records and "one and done" without him.

Football was just fun to watch when he was under center.

 

[BLITZ]

Football was just fun to watch when he was under center.

cause the Steelers were in every game. No matter what. They could be down 28-0 and I swear Ben would win somehow.

 

[Stewey]

I agree somewhat, but Cowher helped build the team and he also seemed to let his assistants do their jobs. We also seemed to progress further into the playoffs under Cowher.
Under Tomlin we are having trouble building any kind of identity and alot of time the team lacks intensity. To be fair Cowher didn't have to deal with the wokeness and all the politically correct BS. I still think Cowher is a much much better coach than Tomlin

We overlook the fact that like Tomlin, Cowher also had the gift of gab which helped land him a TV job.
My impression is that Cowher came across more sincere and down to earth.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I knew how great Roethlisberger was and appreciated having him at QB the entire time. Even so, I think he was even better than I thought given how this team has gone since he retired.

It is a monumental task to drag Shades to the Lombardi, Ben did it…somehow, against all odds he drug a guy that can’t get out of his way for a single playoff win to a streak of them that resulted in the most unlikely hoisting of a Lombardi

Simply amazing and I’d argue the hardest task every completed in the NFL

Had Ben not made a career of shaking guys off like fleas when they tried to drag him down he would have never been prepared to schlepp Shades to a SB

 

[Steelr4evr]

The Bridge on the River Kwai. That's old school.

I was introduced to many classics at a young age by my father. The same goes for music.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I’m older and I can tell you advanced age has nothing to do with how you feel about the Steelers.
I look at the team objectively and what I’ve seen around there for a very long time is simply mediocre results. Year in, year out, same old crap, mediocrity.
With Ben, without Ben, with the recent carousel of starting QBs it’s always the same, mediocre results.
Imo most of Ben’s career was wasted with poor coaching.
Aside from Ben’s early years of great success, 2011 thru 2021 with better overall coaching would have gone a long way in getting Ben back to the SB.
What I think the issue is with the Steelers is stubbornness and unwillingness to to move into today’s NFL. That’s on Rooney who just won’t budge.
You simply don’t win today with strong defense and an offense that wants to pound the ball. It’s about lighting up the scoreboard and fast.
KC has that type of offense but their defense is young and fast.
This team is stuck in the mud with an antiquated coach who still thinks you can win with ground and pound offense and strong defense. It won’t work!
You might muck out 8,9,even 10 wins with a moderately weak schedule, but if you make the playoffs the results are the same. You cannot compete with these elite offenses.
Look at SF with Kyle Shanahan. He’s winning and his offense plays the game the way it should be played with Brock Purdy as his QB.
Shanahan had a plan and how he wanted to play offense and he brought in the guys he thought would make his offense work.
Mike Tomlin orchestrates a hodge podge of nothingness with his offense. You really never know what the hell he’s trying to accomplish.
They throw all their money in the defense and all that’s happening is the stars are getting older and closer to the end.
One playoff win since 2016 gets almost ALL HCs fired but not this one.
They are stuck in the middle and the immediate future looks more if the same.

Well orchestrated and very to the point. Thanks for all yiour great post(s) along the way Steelhurt.


Salute the nation

 

[Lloyd]

It is a monumental task to drag Shades to the Lombardi, Ben did it…somehow, against all odds he drug a guy that can’t get out of his way for a single playoff win to a streak of them that resulted in the most unlikely hoisting of a Lombardi

Simply amazing and I’d argue the hardest task every completed in the NFL

Had Ben not made a career of shaking guys off like fleas when they tried to drag him down he would have never been prepared to schlepp Shades to a SB

Well said, Ben was the ultimate "difference maker." Not only did Shades have him, he also has Dick LeBeau's D that was very special. As it turns out, Tomlin needed both to secure a Lombardi trophy. Many of us knew it at the time, as well.

 

[Drink IRON City]

cause the Steelers were in every game. No matter what. They could be down 28-0 and I swear Ben would win somehow.

His last season, despite being incredibly handcuffed, I think he had 7 come from behind victories.

I also thin k he leads the NFL in that category as well.


Salute the nation

 

[diver]

Well said, Ben was the ultimate "difference maker." Not only did Shades have him, he also has Dick LeBeau's D that was very special. As it turns out, Tomlin needed both to secure a Lombardi trophy. Many of us knew it at the time, as well.

Yeah...Noll needed the Steel Curtain and Bradshaw to secure his Super Bowls as well.

Still, so what? He was the coach when they won it. Would you rather he lost?

In no way am I saying that should mean a lifetime appointment as head coach. It should not, Tomlin should be gone. But who cares how he won what he did.