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My take on Shazier

  • Thread starter Thread starter Idioteque
  • Start date Start date
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Idioteque

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Shazier isn't fast like Lawrence Timmons is fast. Ya know, "fast for his position," "builds up to good speed," all the cliches. He's extraordinarily fast. By his workout numbers, he might be the most explosive player in the entire draft - not LB, player. His Pro Day 40 was unofficially a ******* 4.35. Yes, Pro Day 40s are usually inflated, but even you call him a 4.45-4.50 guy, he's still among the NFL's fastest LBs as we speak. At the Combine, where everyone competed on even footing with impartial timers, he topped the field with his vertical and broad jumps. His 3-cone was good. He put up 25 reps on the bench (more than Clowney, more than Mack) despite relatively long arms. Simply put, he and Aaron Donald were the athletic superstars of the draft season.

So, is he a workout warrior like Vernon Gholston? I'd say no. He plays to that speed. His burst off the ball is fantastic and he's a blur as he closes in. Pursues with intensity.

Is he a frightened, shivering weakling incapable of taking on blocks? No, he is not anywhere close to Anthony Barr. He shows a punch when he's first reached by a blocker, and as the current buzzterm goes, he converts speed to power. The explosiveness in his body, particularly his lower half, makes him harder to move than he should be. Watch the bowl v. Clemson, one of the most talented offenses in the country. On the first two snaps, you see him shrug off a guard on the second level and chase Sammy Watkins out of bounds, then toss aside a TE in helping to pinch off Tajh Boyd's running lane. A few plays later, on Tajh Boyd's touchdown run, a pulling guard comes in motion and levels Shazier in stride. Does he knock Shazier on his ***? No, Shazier stays not only upright, but in control of his stance and in the play.

No, this play does not prove Shazier is Levon Kirkland. But to say he's a scrawny weakling who gets taken out of the play with a pinky is major hyperbole. Keep watching the Clemson game and you see him absorbing blocks and redirecting blockers. It's not all about weight; a lot of anchoring has to do with how the guy uses his hands. Merrill Hoge used to talk about Chuck Noll's obsession with hand size and hand power, and that it was a primary factor in his scouting. Shazier has big, strong hands with good punch and control of them. He holds his spot well for a 237-pounder, and in today's NFL, I will happily trade a walrus who can grab a RB five yards downfield and fall down with him but can't move, for an ultra-explosive playmaker who can at least hold his own in the middle.

This wasn't the optimal pick IMO. Fuller and Beckham were by far the top players on the board leading to our pick, and both got stolen. That sucks. But I'm certainly glad we took extreme athleticism over the "safe" pick, someone like Dennard or Mosley that would please Mel Kiper but have a limited impact once the actual football starts.
 
Well said. Like the analysis.
 
I LOVE the pick and if you look at the board and don't you are a ******* RETARD!
 
Great write up. People need to realize that you cannot get overly fixated on height/weight measurables. James Farrior played the 2008 season at 220 pounds. I'd say he had a pretty good career. It's about technique and smarts. If you happen to be a freak athlete on top of that then it really makes for a outstanding package and player. I was shocked in a good way by this pick. The only players I realistically saw the Steelers picking in this spot were Beckham and Fuller......and when they were gone......I was scratching my head because I didn't think there was any way they were taking Dennard there. As far as Shazier goes.......the guy is the epitome of a run and hit backer. He can close and take away angles from sideline to sideline.......and away from the line of scrimmage. I think he was one of the most underrated players in the draft and given the way the draft was projected I didn't think the Steelers were going to take him but I'm excited. He's a dynamic player period. The Steelers needed to take a shot at this guy. Like Idioteque was saying.....his explosion and production was not just good for a LB but for any player in this draft.
 
Good analysis, thanks. I'm also glad to read that Dobs liked the pick. FWIW, local beat reporters had the scoop that the FO loved OBJ but not Fuller.
 
Good analysis, thanks. I'm also glad to read that Dobs liked the pick. FWIW, local beat reporters had the scoop that the FO loved OBJ but not Fuller.

I can see that. We haven't taken a CB before the 3rd in a decade or so. It surely wasn't going to be a guy like Dennard who broke that streak, that's for sure. I love Fuller (who wouldn't?) but this is a team that looks for system CBs, not franchise-type ones. And rightfully so IMO.
 
Shazier will look good vs finesse teams like Clemson, but he didn't look so good against Michigan State or Wisconsin. He's a chase player. You have to keep him clean and he can run and make plays. Isn't that what Timmons is supposed to do?

I think this is a pick in anticipation of parting ways with Timmons next year.
 
Instead of reaching for other needs, take the guy with solid measurables who ranks higher on the board. I Initially was scratching my head but the pick makes sense, solid player who can play ILB as well as OLB. He'll team up next to Timmons and strengthen the middle of the defense which was a weak spot last season.
 
Watch the bowl v. Clemson, one of the most talented offenses in the country. On the first two snaps, you see him shrug off a guard on the second level and chase Sammy Watkins out of bounds, then toss aside a TE in helping to pinch off Tajh Boyd's running lane. A few plays later, on Tajh Boyd's touchdown run, a pulling guard comes in motion and levels Shazier in stride. Does he knock Shazier on his ***? No, Shazier stays not only upright, but in control of his stance and in the play.

See, here is where we see things a little differently. While he was able to slip the first play and handled the TE well on the second, on the 4th play of the series, he was locked up by the TE down the field. He eventually shrugged it, but those are not NFL caliber TEs either. On the Boyd TD run, he keeps his feet, but he gets blown up and back. They make contact on the 48 and he regains control on the 46. Boyd is by him. He was knocked out of the play. That won't work in the NFL. He gets bumped around a lot. He really needs to be kept clean or work to develop the ability to slip blockers better. To state that he is hard to move is a bit of a stretch for me.

He is what he is, a run and hit linebacker that does not play with a ton of sand in his shorts. It is the hole in his game. But, he can tackle. He is aggressive. He can cover. He has excellent athletic attributes.

There is NOT a LB in the draft outside the top 10 that does not have a hole in his game. Shazier's hole is his ability to take on blockers and shed them. Rather have a fast guy that may be able to learn that than a guy that can do it but cannot make the play because he cannot run.
 
Here's my problem with the pick. The offense lines up with 3 or 4 WRs. Who do you put on the field for the Steelers?
 
Shazier will look good vs finesse teams like Clemson, but he didn't look so good against Michigan State or Wisconsin. He's a chase player. You have to keep him clean and he can run and make plays. Isn't that what Timmons is supposed to do?

I think this is a pick in anticipation of parting ways with Timmons next year.

Against Wisconsin Shazier had 9 total tackles (4 solo and 5 assists). Against Mich. State he had 12 total tackles (10 solo and 2 assists). Against Clemson, Shazier had 9 total tackles (7 solo and 2 assists) ... Seems like his output against Wisc was comparable to how he performed against Clemson and his performance against MSU was better than against Clemson. At the very least, the stats indicate that he didn't get "rag dolled" by Wisc. and/or MSU.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/514180/ryan-shazier
 
Here's my problem with the pick. The offense lines up with 3 or 4 WRs. Who do you put on the field for the Steelers?

With 3 WRs, you can stay in base defense. Or, you can pull the NT and play a nickel. You can do that against 4 as well. Shazier can cover. Timmons would be your lesser coverage LB in that situation.
 
Here's my problem with the pick. The offense lines up with 3 or 4 WRs. Who do you put on the field for the Steelers?

Heyward and McLendon down. Shazier, Timmons, two edge rushers (I like to think we'll soon upgrade from the vaunted Worilds-Jarvis tandem). Five DBs.
 
Heyward and McLendon down. Shazier, Timmons, two edge rushers (I like to think we'll soon upgrade from the vaunted Worilds-Jarvis tandem). Five DBs.

Same as last season except except Troy plays safety instead of ILB.
 
On the Boyd TD run, he keeps his feet, but he gets blown up and back. They make contact on the 48 and he regains control on the 46. Boyd is by him. He was knocked out of the play. That won't work in the NFL. He gets bumped around a lot. He really needs to be kept clean or work to develop the ability to slip blockers better. To state that he is hard to move is a bit of a stretch for me.

No question he was rocked back onto his heels. But this was a pulling guard in stride who landed a perfect body shot, and Shazier is a 237# LB/S hybrid. I'd expect most of them to be blown back like Shazier was. I just can't watch a play like that and call Shazier weak. (I know you're not doing that, but read through the draft thread. You'd think he was Darren Sproles.)

You're totally right. He's not Farrior. But I'd take a Lavonte David or Mychal Hendricks-level player, and Shazier's athletic upside dwarfs even those guys.
 
TLDR...


Ill just say I idont know what to feel at this point. Disappointment ,,,, or elation we address the vacant mack? is he the mack? Can he be more than special teams this year.? F'n bungles , stains and rat birds all took people we thought the steelers would take... so I need to sit back and read TMC thoughts and Dobres... and figure out this pick.
 
With 3 WRs, you can stay in base defense. Or, you can pull the NT and play a nickel. You can do that against 4 as well. Shazier can cover. Timmons would be your lesser coverage LB in that situation.

Heyward and McLendon down. Shazier, Timmons, two edge rushers (I like to think we'll soon upgrade from the vaunted Worilds-Jarvis tandem). Five DBs.

I see 2 Lose Lose situations for the steelers. Not much pass rush, Only 1 playmaker in the secondary and weak against the run up the middle.

How is that an advantage for the steelers? If they had Aaron Smith, Hampton and Kemo up front, i'd like the pick, but they don't so i don;t think we will get the best from Shazier.

I'd like this pick better if they trade away Timmons. That way you could pair a more stout LB with Shazier.
 
I see 2 Lose Lose situations for the steelers. Not much pass rush, Only 1 playmaker in the secondary and weak against the run up the middle.

I'd say that's the fault of Worilds and Jarvis, who should be the primary rush threats.

I'd like this pick better if they trade away Timmons. That way you could pair a more stout LB with Shazier.

Like you said earlier, I think at least part of this pick came with an eye on Timmons being gone within two years. Shazier is a more athletic and talented version of him.
 
Farrior played at a lighter weight but he had a bigger NT in front of him. Can this guy get pressure with McLendon in front of him? He might get pressure with the Fire blitz because of his speed.
 
Is that what the Steelers are doing now? Drafting for 2 years down the road? I loved the Spence pick a few years ago because i wanted an athletic chase LB who could cover. A situational player who didn't cost much. I don't like investing such a high pick in a guy like that.

Is Shazier that good a prospect that you just had to have him at the expense of a other possible impact players at need positions? I'd rather have rolled the dice on Benjamin or even Deone Buchanon who could be an impact safety, or Dennard, or even Dee Ford, or Tuitt.

Part of this pick is that Timmons needs to be told what to do. They see Shazier as a smart enough player to handle that.

I guess i'm just tired of the steelers picking guys who seem to be attempts to spackle over past draft mistakes.
 
This guy better have the goods the door is halfway open for Colbert and Tomlin. I don't know jack **** about the player, but I will say 237 is pretty light in the pants. I looked at Jarvis Jones skinny wrists last year and was like ok, but he is supposed to be a baller. He was literally enveloped. If you guys want to watch 230 lb linebackers, football starts in a month and a half. The CFL.
 
I know it was a generation ago, but the complainers said another guy was too light and skinny to play linebacker. I think his name was Jack Lambert. Too light?
 
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