My take on Shazier

[TMC]

I see 2 Lose Lose situations for the steelers. Not much pass rush, Only 1 playmaker in the secondary and weak against the run up the middle.

How is that an advantage for the steelers? If they had Aaron Smith, Hampton and Kemo up front, i'd like the pick, but they don't so i don;t think we will get the best from Shazier.

I'd like this pick better if they trade away Timmons. That way you could pair a more stout LB with Shazier.

How many people did you expect them to take with the first pick? If they took Dennard, how would he change the pass rush or the run defense up the middle? If they took Nix, how would he change the pass rush or secondary? Cannot fix everything with one pick. You just cannot.

 

[Idioteque]

This guy better have the goods the door is halfway open for Colbert and Tomlin. I don't know jack **** about the player, but I will say 237 is pretty light in the pants. I looked at Jarvis Jones skinny wrists last year and was like ok, but he is supposed to be a baller. He was literally enveloped. If you guys want to watch 230 lb linebackers, football starts in a month and a half. The CFL.

Luke Kuechly is listed at 235. Sean Lee at 229. Bobby Wagner 241. Derrick Johnson 242. Daryl Washington 238. Kiko Alonso 235. Alec Ogletree 237.

 

[Chicoman]

I will say this I like this pic because I think Joey Porter can help this kid when it comes to his weaknesses. The speed this kid possesses is amazing and the Steelers see very few holes in this kids game. I hope this pick works out. I know many people here don't like the kid but I will say this is Louis Nix that DT from Notre Dame is there in the 2nd round I wouldn't be upset if the Steelers take him to solidify the middle of our Defense and improve our pass rush. That will greatly improve our secondary without question.

Add a big WR like Donte Moncrief in the 3rd round and I'd say the Steelers definitely filled some holes.

 

[Hallmarky]

I know it was a generation ago, but the complainers said another guy was too light and skinny to play linebacker. I think his name was Jack Lambert. Too light?

I can't argue with that. I've seen Jack shed some big blockers. I haven't seen Ryan do that. Not even on his highlight video.

 

[TMC]

No question he was rocked back onto his heels. But this was a pulling guard in stride who landed a perfect body shot, and Shazier is a 237# LB/S hybrid. I'd expect most of them to be blown back like Shazier was. I just can't watch a play like that and call Shazier weak. (I know you're not doing that, but read through the draft thread. You'd think he was Darren Sproles.)

You're totally right. He's not Farrior. But I'd take a Lavonte David or Mychal Hendricks-level player, and Shazier's athletic upside dwarfs even those guys.

He is more David than Mychal Kendricks. Kendricks is a little shorter, heavier, thicker built. Shazier has more straightline speed, but Kendricks is a little quicker in his COD. A little thicker built, more sturdy when taking on blockers. Kendricks plays bigger (he was almost 240). You have to realize that Shazier was closer to 220 than 240 while playing this season. Now, he has put on good weight, dude is still ripped up, and if that mass translates to him being better able to handle blockers, great. Dunno yet. Again, if we grab some guys later, maybe someone like Hart from Oregon, a couple space eaters (I still like Justin Ellis later too), then he could be fine.

In fact, if Hageman falls, he can be your bigger, mobile NT. I think he can play inside or outside. Maybe they take Nix. Just put some meat in front of him and keep him clean. ****, the Ravens did it with Ray Lewis. Adams and Siragusa were there to keep him clean, anything else was just a bonus.

 

[SteelerSask2]

You better have a monster at nose with a guy that size. You get a 320 lb guard or centre on him, he is giving up almost a 100 lbs.
Weaknesses
Lacks ideal size and bulk. Still developing eyes and instincts -- will diagnose and trigger more quickly down the road. Gets caught in traffic or engulfed by larger blockers when he hesitates to step downhill. Prone to overaggressiveness -- occasionally overruns plays or loses cutback contain. Could stand to improve his eyes, awareness, anticipation and reactions as a zone defender. Took some time to acclimate before making an impact.

 

[Mosh Pitt]

Check it out.....dude´s going to make plays.

 

[BLITZ]

the 3-4 is all about pressure on the qb. we haven't had that in years. at least our draft picks are attempting to address this.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Here's my problem with the pick. The offense lines up with 3 or 4 WRs. Who do you put on the field for the Steelers?

Why do people keep saying this? Jarvis, Shazier, Timmons, Worilds.

Shazier potentially changes our entire defense. He makes Timmons (hands down the fastest backer we've had for about 4 years) seem slow. I'm not worried about the coverage at all.

What I AM worried about is responsibility. Colbert and Tomlin said in not so many words that the plan is to move Timmons over to Buck. I love Timmons, i'm one of his biggest defenders. But dude is a moron. He's been here 8 years and never managed to make the transition despite it being the ideal position for his abilities. How will that change now? They gonna take it out of his hands like they did last season? We saw what not having a proper buck did to the D.

 

[SteelerSask2]

The other piece of this puzzle that doesn't make sense to me is that Sean Spence is supposed to be ready to go. Now I'm sure this guy is supposed to be an upgrade over Spence, but not totally a different type of player. So are you really upgrading that position as much as you could have somewhere else?

 

[Idioteque]

He is more David than Mychal Kendricks. Kendricks is a little shorter, heavier, thicker built. Shazier has more straightline speed, but Kendricks is a little quicker in his COD. A little thicker built, more sturdy when taking on blockers. Kendricks plays bigger (he was almost 240). You have to realize that Shazier was closer to 220 than 240 while playing this season. Now, he has put on good weight, dude is still ripped up, and if that mass translates to him being better able to handle blockers, great. Dunno yet. Again, if we grab some guys later, maybe someone like Hart from Oregon, a couple space eaters (I still like Justin Ellis later too), then he could be fine.

In fact, if Hageman falls, he can be your bigger, mobile NT. I think he can play inside or outside. Maybe they take Nix. Just put some meat in front of him and keep him clean. ****, the Ravens did it with Ray Lewis. Adams and Siragusa were there to keep him clean, anything else was just a bonus.

I'm clearly misremembering Kendricks here.

You better have a monster at nose with a guy that size. You get a 320 lb guard or centre on him, he is giving up almost a 100 lbs.
Weaknesses
Lacks ideal size and bulk. Still developing eyes and instincts -- will diagnose and trigger more quickly down the road. Gets caught in traffic or engulfed by larger blockers when he hesitates to step downhill. Prone to overaggressiveness -- occasionally overruns plays or loses cutback contain. Could stand to improve his eyes, awareness, anticipation and reactions as a zone defender. Took some time to acclimate before making an impact.

Here's the thing. Everyone is predicting doom and gloom for Shazier in terms of taking on blocks, because we're imagining a 320-lb guard mowing him down in the open field. That doesn't happen as often as people think. Shazier is not Pat Willis. He's not going to be slamming into the A gap to shut down runs at the LOS. He's an open-field, big-play LB. He was drafted to chase fast RBs and QBs in space and make plays that Vince Williams can't make. And to make plays down the field in coverage.

Furthermore.. when a huge, lumbering guard is chugging through the open field, he's at a disadvantage because a LB is much smaller, quicker, faster, and more agile. Yes, a massive OL can slaughter Shazier (or Ray Lewis) if he addresses them, lands cleanly on the torso, and drives through. That's only natural. But Shazier is a fast, quick, explosive player. Presumably, he's not going to be a sitting duck in the middle of the field; he'll be utilizing that open-field advantage by evading blockers. That's why Ray Lewis is going to the HOF. It's not because he blows up 320-lb linemen.

Speaking of Ray Lewis.. he said tonight he played in college around 220. And that he was about 260 in the Super Bowl several years later. Like all ILBs from Lambert to Lewis, Shazier will often be dependent upon the DL in front of him. You can't draft an ILB that can absorb a full-speed Mike Iupati in the open field, grab him, and shove him out of the way. That guy doesn't exist.

 

[SteelerSask2]

But you can't also fill a linebacker corp with 225 230 lb guys neither. If so, you would just move big safeties down who all run real fast.

 

[TMC]

Here is the thing, Heyward is likely going to eat two blockers. Almost has to, he is the main guy to block right now. McLendon will occupy one. Jones and Worilds will get one. If we can find a DE to play (maybe even bring Keisel back) that can actually beat a OL, then you have both ILBs on inside runs. If he gets washed, you should still have Timmons to clean up. If Timmons fills, then he should clean up. That is WHEN teams play with a fullback. I admit, I like my ILBs to be a little more stout inside, but in this draft, there just is not a thumper inside that can cover. He just is not there. Do you wait another year?

And, you can bet that Phillip Gaines in on the radar at corner, maybe in the 2nd. Colbert and Tomlin were enamored with Shazier's speed. Said in this age of passing offenses, you have to have speed. Watch for leaner, faster defensive picks.

Finally, and no offense to Jarvis Jones, at least if they miss this year, they missed taking a ******* athlete. Tired of seeing guys that have no core strength or speed..........

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

But you can't also fill a linebacker corp with 225 230 lb guys neither. If so, you would just move big safeties down who all run real fast.

Says who?

This isn't Cowher's NFL where every backer had to be 260 pounds. We need speed. We need rangy sideline to sideline guys. It's been three seasons now of watching Steelers backers get to the play a couple of split seconds too late, or torn up on seams or drags across the middle .

 

[SteelerSask2]

TMC the guy is a three down player, could you take Nix if he falls in the second who is at best a two down player, but would completely nullify Shazier's size limitations. He would likely eat up two blockers to McLendon's one. I do agree about athlete over college production. After about 10 you can't usually get both and I'll take athlete too.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

TMC the guy is a three down player, could you take Nix if he falls in the second who is at best a two down player, but would completely nullify Shazier's size limitations. He would likely eat up two blockers to McLendon's one. I do agree about athlete over college production. After about 10 you can't usually get both and I'll take athlete too.

According to the bolded part, you should like the Shazier pick. He's an athlete and he has produced at a major college program. I was shocked by the pick at first, but as I look at it, it makes sense for what they are trying to do (Get faster and have more options when it comes to sub packages against spread type teams).

 

[Idioteque]

But you can't also fill a linebacker corp with 225 230 lb guys neither. If so, you would just move big safeties down who all run real fast.

No, and Shazier may need a stout run-stuffer to pair with to maximize each other's talents. Maybe we snag Preston Brown 2-3 rounds from now.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Maybe I get my wish and they actually go for Hageman. We need one more guy on the D line who can command a double team.

 

[TMC]

TMC the guy is a three down player, could you take Nix if he falls in the second who is at best a two down player, but would completely nullify Shazier's size limitations. He would likely eat up two blockers to McLendon's one. I do agree about athlete over college production. After about 10 you can't usually get both and I'll take athlete too.

You could, but Nix is a very limited guy. As you say, 2 down player. The feel I got from Colbert/Tomlin is they are very concerned about having speed because the league is going more to spreading the ball around. They want guys that they do not have to worry about getting caught in a defense. In essence, they would prefer a NT that can plug inside and give them some pass rush.

I think that would be Hageman, not Nix. And, Nix's injury history scares me. I have little doubt that he will play closer to 350 than his current weight.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

With 3 WRs, you can stay in base defense. Or, you can pull the NT and play a nickel. You can do that against 4 as well. Shazier can cover. Timmons would be your lesser coverage LB in that situation.

Heyward and McLendon down. Shazier, Timmons, two edge rushers (I like to think we'll soon upgrade from the vaunted Worilds-Jarvis tandem). Five DBs.

How many people did you expect them to take with the first pick? If they took Dennard, how would he change the pass rush or the run defense up the middle? If they took Nix, how would he change the pass rush or secondary? Cannot fix everything with one pick. You just cannot.

Dennard would have upgraded the coverage and the steelers pathetic turnover ratio.
Benjamin would have brought a big WR they lack and helped in the redzone
Nix or Jernigan would have helped both the pass rush and the run defense and helped keep the ILBs clean.
Deone Buchanon would be an impact player this year and replace Polamalu next
Dee Ford gives them a speed rusher that they lack. Maybe a boom or bust guy but talented.
Hageman could potentially be a beast DE in a 3-4

I would rather roll the dice on athletic guys like Prince Shembo or Kevin Pierre-Louis later to fill the role Shazier will.

And again, it appears the Steelers had a prime opportunity to trade back and didn't.

I just think they could have done a lot more with the #15 pick. They better grab Jernigan in Rd 2 or Beau Allen later to cover up the soft middle.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

If they want faster guys I think Beau Allen is off their board.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Dennard would have upgraded the coverage and the steelers pathetic turnover ratio.

And again, it appears the Steelers had a prime opportunity to trade back and didn't.

Not taking a shot here. But I hadn't heard that anyone offered them a trade that they turned down. Who was it?

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

And again, it appears the Steelers had a prime opportunity to trade back and didn't.

I just think they could have done a lot more with the #15 pick. .

This is my thought too. Yet again I have to acquiesce (sp) to smart guys and dick Lebeau.

 

[TMC]

Dennard would have upgraded the coverage and the steelers pathetic turnover ratio.
Benjamin would have brought a big WR they lack and helped in the redzone
Nix or Jernigan would have helped both the pass rush and the run defense and helped keep the ILBs clean.
Deone Buchanon would be an impact player this year and replace Polamalu next
Dee Ford gives them a speed rusher that they lack. Maybe a boom or bust guy but talented.
Hageman could potentially be a beast DE in a 3-4

I would rather roll the dice on athletic guys like Prince Shembo or Kevin Pierre-Louis later to fill the role Shazier will.

And again, it appears the Steelers had a prime opportunity to trade back and didn't.

I just think they could have done a lot more with the #15 pick. They better grab Jernigan in Rd 2 or Beau Allen later to cover up the soft middle.

Dale Lolley just tweeted that the Steelers had no offers for the pick. Albert Breer tweeted that Dallas had 4 players targeted (Barr, Donald, Shazier, and Martin). They would have taken Shazier with the next pick. According to Steelers.com, Shazier was on the phone with them and they had his name on the pick already.

There are also other corners available. It was said prior to the pick that the Steelers were not interested in Fuller or Dennard in the first. Obviously, something about them did not settle with them. They have had a better track record at finding middle round DBs than they have at finding ILBs. Same with WRs. Still plenty of tall WRs, not that many coverage ILBs. Nix would not help the pass rush. Two down lineman. Jernigan lacks the bulk and does not fit us. I am sure Buchanon was an option, as was Clinton-Dix and Pryor. I'll pass on Ford. Hageman is still there, could still be the pick as Nix could as well.

Have to kind of allow this thing to unfold. Again, needs to get bigger and handle blocks better, but at least he can run and tackle. Plenty of ILBs out there that just do not tackle well enough.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I like the Shazier pick better than Jarvis last year. At least Shazier is an athlete worthy of his draft position. I just don't like the fit and again we run into issues with Timmons being way overpaid for what he delivers.

If Timmons was not on this team, i'd love the Shazier pick, because then we could just plug in Vince Williams or any other dime a dozen run stuffing LB next to him in run situations. Williams sits on passing downs and is replaced by a DB who can cover. Shazier is free to roam.

Steelers don't want to be caught in a defense but my fear is they just did that to themselves because now it seems they will be staying in the base 3-4 most of the time even against 3 WR sets. I mean if they grab a CB in Rd 2, when does he get on the field now? When does Shamarko see the field?

I don't like this front 7. I hate it and that's the whole strength of the steeler scheme. I was hoping Jarvis would be transitioned to ILB, but i guess that won't happen now. Instead he'll just continue to not rush the passer because he lacks the athletic ability and size.

Maybe they will end up swapping Shazier and Jarvis. Shazier doesn't shed blocks well but at least he's fast.