No losing seasons

[ark steel]

Great coaches don't have to. Again, you defend everything that Tomlin does, but then claim that not to be the case. You are the master of hyperbole, no wonder you keep using the word.

So, I'm claiming he DOES have issues, state that I don't think his great and I'm defending everything he does? How do you get from A to B on that.

Great coaches take advantage of every opportunity and that has zero to do with Tomlin.

 

[slashsteel]

A lot of attractive coordinators out there, I am sure one of those x and o guru's is going to make for a great coach.

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[ark steel]

Again, having a 9-8 record without Ben playing in 1-2 games a year is NOT the same as an entire year without Ben. This team will be LUCKY to be .500 without Ben.

Again, replacing Ben long term will not be with just whoever happens to be on the roster at the time either. It may or may not be Rudolph or Dobbs. It might be with a veteran or a newer draft pick.

The only data we have available does not point to a losing team. Doesn't say it is great either.

 

[Steeler Pride]

Sure they do. Green Bay is 5-6 since their SB win.

last time I checked, 5 is better than 3. The Packers just fired McCarthy as well.

Rivers has 1 playoff win since 09

The Chargers have had 6 coaches since 2008. The Chargers have never had anywhere near the talent on either side of the ball that the Steelers have had. Who is the GREAT coach they had, Turner, Shottenheimer?

Brees has 3 playoff wins since his SB win

Considering they have not been to the playoffs in 5 years, again, outside of Brees, who have the Saints had on either side of the ball since their SB win?

Dan Marino with Don Shula after losing the superbowl were 6-6 in 12 years!!

The game passed Shula by in the mid to late 80's. Nobody was removing Shula the legend from his job in Miami.

 

[Ike Kelly]

It's the Browns. Not a win to hang your hat on, even with a backup quarterback. Very obvious to most people.

Not to derail the conversation, but how many wins has Marcia accumulated against the Bills, Phins and Jets? I think the Jets are the only team to make it to a AFCC since 02. How many playoff wins they have? Point being comparing a players record to a team that is on the schedule twice yearly isn’t happenstance.


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[Steeler Pride]

I'm. IMPLYING that I don't know who it is. That is it. You are INFERING that I mean something else.

I am flat out stating that some of the folks mentioned not the past (Harbaugh, whiz arians and Ryan) are not "better"'

Maybe, Munchak would be better. Maybe he is better suited to OL/OC duties. His prior HC stint was unimpressive but too short for him to have had time to get his team and a few drafts under his belt to be able to reach much of a conclusion.

If you look at where they were before he took over Arians did more for the Colts and Cardinals than what Tomlin has done for the Steelers. The adversity that he coached thru in Indy and the turnaround he made in Arizona were impressive. I didn't care much for him as an OC as he got Ben killed in the pocket, but his abilities as a HC were pretty impressive.

 

[ark steel]

Hit a nerve no. Yes 10 points, strip sack 7 + FG=10. Just like olinemen give up sacks, QBs get stripped sacked, it happens. He still tore that defense up, it's funny you won't even acknowledge that. We scored 42 points, even with the two turnovers, that's more than enough to win, and no way you can blame the offense.
As for the sacks, that was a direct result of different offenses, BAs offense was downfield, intermediate to deep routes, thus your QB has to hold the ball longer, Hailey's offense was more horizontal and short routes.


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Exactly, it happens. That is why you don't see me calling for Ben to be replaced. Because of what he CAN do, we can overlook when he ***** up. Doesn't mean we don't acknowledge it though and admit that overcoming 10 points given up by him against a PO caliber team doesn't put the team in a pickle. How much coaching in a game can overcome that?

I've told you directly before, that was an entire team loss, coaching AND players. Just a little better play execution by players (including Ben on those 2 plays) or one less coaching **** up and that game is won. Hell actually calling the PI on juju on the failed 4th and short changes the game.

 

[ark steel]

If you look at where they were before he took over Arians did more for the Colts and Cardinals than what Tomlin has done for the Steelers. The adversity that he coached thru in Indy and the turnaround he made in Arizona were impressive. I didn't care much for him as an OC as he got Ben killed in the pocket, but his abilities as a HC were pretty impressive.

The Indy **** again? That is the absolute very definition of "winning with the other guys team" the whole coaching staff was put together by he other guy. He did do a good job keeping the team focussed an on track. The fact that they kept winning for 2 or 3 after seasons he was in Az indicates there might have been more factored in than just the jobs stains did.

He did the exact same thing in AS that whiz did. Got there, won early gets a couple of drafts under his belt and the team turns to ****.

 

[Stryker]

last time I checked, 5 is better than 3. The Packers just fired McCarthy as well.

The Chargers have had 6 coaches since 2008. The Chargers have never had anywhere near the talent on either side of the ball that the Steelers have had. Who is the GREAT coach they had, Turner, Shottenheimer?

Considering they have not been to the playoffs in 5 years, again, outside of Brees, who have the Saints had on either side of the ball since their SB win?

The game passed Shula by in the mid to late 80's. Nobody was removing Shula the legend from his job in Miami.

So you can make excuses for all of those coaches to QBs, but not your own? That is interesting to me.

 

[Stryker]

A lot of attractive coordinators out there, I am sure one of those x and o guru's is going to make for a great coach.

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Now I think the DC can be upgraded. That would be a coaching move I would get behind. But Butler did put together a gameplan that just held Brady to 10 points, so I'm hoping he improves.

 

[Coryea]

Exactly, it happens. That is why you don't see me calling for Ben to be replaced. Because of what he CAN do, we can overlook when he ***** up. Doesn't mean we don't acknowledge it though and admit that overcoming 10 points given up by him against a PO caliber team doesn't put the team in a pickle. How much coaching in a game can overcome that?

I've told you directly before, that was an entire team loss, coaching AND players. Just a little better play execution by players (including Ben on those 2 plays) or one less coaching **** up and that game is won. Hell actually calling the PI on juju on the failed 4th and short changes the game.

Ben more than made up for that. If the defense just has an average game we win by double digits.
The failed coaching came on the defensive side of the ball again, they couldn't figure how to stop their running game and couldn't figure out away to stop the Juggernaut that is Blake Bortles. Yeah you can say that was on everyone, but the offense and Ben did way more than expected, even with the two turnovers. There isn't one Steeler fan that wouldn't have signed up for Ben throwing for 5TDs, 400 yards and 500 yards offense, 1 int, 1 fumble before the game.
Defense is usually the issue in these crap losses, like having no clue how to stop Tebow, or blowing 3 straight games in the 4th quarter prior to NE.

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[slashsteel]

Now I think the DC can be upgraded. That would be a coaching move I would get behind. But Butler did put together a gameplan that just held Brady to 10 points, so I'm hoping he improves.

Doubt he is going to change the scheme up. NO will be a good test to see if he has learned anything.

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[SteelerFan448]

Not to derail the conversation, but how many wins has Marcia accumulated against the Bills, Phins and Jets? I think the Jets are the only team to make it to a AFCC since 02. How many playoff wins they have? Point being comparing a players record to a team that is on the schedule twice yearly isn’t happenstance.

Brady and the Pats beat those teams, clinched a first round bye, got to play a cupcake in the divisional round, got to play at home for a trip to the Super Bowl, rinse, repeat. Maybe the Steelers would have had more chances if they beat the cupcakes on their schedule.

 

[Steeler Pride]

So you can make excuses for all of those coaches to QBs, but not your own? That is interesting to me.

What team that you listed had the same level of talent that we have had in Tomlin's tenure. If you want me to agree that Tomlin is on the same level as McCarthy, Turner, or Shottenheimer then I would probably agree. None of those 3 are great coaches either.

 

[Steeler Pride]

The Indy **** again? That is the absolute very definition of "winning with the other guys team" the whole coaching staff was put together by he other guy. He did do a good job keeping the team focussed an on track. The fact that they kept winning for 2 or 3 after seasons he was in Az indicates there might have been more factored in than just the jobs stains did.

He did the exact same thing in AS that whiz did. Got there, won early gets a couple of drafts under his belt and the team turns to ****.

Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, Carson Palmer...all QB's that Bruce coached and all 4 are or were pretty damn good QB's. He took a young Luck and won quite a few games with him and got NFL coach of the year. He then goes to AZ and brings in Palmer and proceeds to take teh Cardinals to 2 playoff appearances and wins another coach of the year award. So Arians gets knocked for inheriting Whiz's team (that never made the playoffs) yet Tomlin does not get credit for inheriting a SB caliber team.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Good is the enemy of great. Some youngins here never experienced great. Leaves a hole when it's gone.

 

[Stryker]

Good is the enemy of great. Some youngins here never experienced great. Leaves a hole when it's gone.

I ride the lightning baby!!

 

[DLN907]

I don;t understand the who can replace Tomlin mantra. It is not like we are talking about a coaching god here.

He is poor at game planning.'
He is poor at in game adjustments.
He is poor at clock management.
He is poor at in game coaching.
He is poor at motivating his players as evidenced by the yearly losing to the drags of the NFL.
he is poor at X and Os

It is hard to find something he is good at except the teams wins due to superior talent and a HOF QB. I think a good coach would be a big improvement over Tomlin who is just a guy,

 

[Stryker]

What team that you listed had the same level of talent that we have had in Tomlin's tenure. If you want me to agree that Tomlin is on the same level as McCarthy, Turner, or Shottenheimer then I would probably agree. None of those 3 are great coaches either.

Green Bay and San Diego were loaded with talent.

Dolphins were still very good, had a good D, excellent receivers, but never had a RB.

A lot of people here wanted McCarthy or Peyton. They're supposed to be great coaches, or at least were argued as being greater than Tomlin at the time.

 

[Stryker]

I don;t understand the who can replace Tomlin mantra. It is not like we are talking about a coaching god here.

He is poor at game planning.'
He is poor at in game adjustments.
He is poor at clock management.
He is poor at in game coaching.
He is poor at motivating his players as evidenced by the yearly losing to the drags of the NFL.
he is poor at X and Os

It is hard to find something he is good at except the teams wins due to superior talent and a HOF QB. I think a good coach would be a big improvement over Tomlin who is just a guy,

Tomlin showed he could do all of those things last week.

And that's the circular argument:
Tomlin Wins
Tomlin wins due to his superior talent
Who brings in that talent?
Who coaches up that talent?

See how this argument breaks down to me?

 

[ark steel]

Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, Carson Palmer...all QB's that Bruce coached and all 4 are or were pretty damn good QB's. He took a young Luck and won quite a few games with him and got NFL coach of the year. He then goes to AZ and brings in Palmer and proceeds to take teh Cardinals to 2 playoff appearances and wins another coach of the year award. So Arians gets knocked for inheriting Whiz's team (that never made the playoffs) yet Tomlin does not get credit for inheriting a SB caliber team.

Coach of the Year means jack ****. Like being in the Pro Bowl.

Being a good qb coach doesn't equate to being a good HC.

He did start off awesome in AZ. I don't know what happened. Maybe if he had more time, he could have gotten them back. We will never know.

 

[ark steel]

Tomlin showed he could do all of those things last week.

And that's the circular argument:
Tomlin Wins
Tomlin wins due to his superior talent
Who brings in that talent?
Who coaches up that talent?

See how this argument breaks down to me?

Well, these days Tomlin has nothing to do with the talent that is here. Well, except for the D because they suck. All those good players just showed up.

 

[DLN907]

Tomlin showed he could do all of those things last week.

And that's the circular argument:
Tomlin Wins
Tomlin wins due to his superior talent
Who brings in that talent?
Who coaches up that talent?

See how this argument breaks down to me?

Really .He butchered the end of the half without calling a timeout. He kept using the poor Boswell who missed another kick and stupidly put him out on the field once again. He made a challenge again that he had no chance of winning. He had to call in outside coaches to try and fix his awful defense.

One game does not erase his glaring weaknesses in all the categories I listed. There is nothing Tomlin does -very well and unfortunately this season will again end short of the expectations and talents of this team. If you think Tomlin is a great coach then I don't know what to tell you, the evidence indicates he does less with more than any coach in the league but I guess 3 playoff wins the last 9 years and two of those against backup QBs is a huge indictment of his lack of coaching ability. Imagine the Steelers the last 9 years with a good coach who stressed the details instead of letting us play ad hoc ball.

 

[Steelworth]

The Tomlin-led Steelers won their last game, against a team they hadn't beaten in like 7 years.

Just want to make sure yinz remember.

 

[Steelworth]

One game does not erase his glaring weaknesses in all the categories I listed. There is nothing Tomlin does -very well and unfortunately this season will again end short of the expectations and talents of this team. If you think Tomlin is a great coach then I don't know what to tell you, the evidence indicates he does less with more than any coach in the league

So not only are you telepathic (you're sure this season will end shortly), but you're an expert coaching scout? And he does less with more than any coach in the league? How does he have the 2nd best winning % of HCs then?