Planned Parenthood Selling Dead Babies for Parts

[Tim Steelersfan]

Trog, you are so lost trying to defend yourself now, it's embarrassing.

Yes, back to the discussion of selling baby parts. And our corrupt Senate standing ground and continuing to support funding the butcher shops.

 

[IndySteel]

Here's a video where PP admits that they have a "do not resuscitate" policy if the aborted babies are alive.

[video]https://video-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xfp1/v/t42.1790-2/11643025_10153387199638728_600026198_n.mp4?efg=eyJ ybHIiOjMwOSwicmxhIjo3NzB9&rl=309&vabr=172&oh=a6799e8f50b83473996cd0793742c95f&oe=55C39C73[/video]

 

[IndySteel]

....................

 

[Troglodyte]

Can you not see the difference between what you state in that last sentence and abortions of convenience. Regardless we've really gotten off the tracks here.....the issue is the ghastly methods being used and discussed as if these people were dismembering a chicken along with the sale of the parts, again as if they were livestock.

I understand the difference and people's opposition to the law - both morally and the basis of the Roe v Wade ruling.

My point (in response to OFTB calling pro-choicers hypocritical) is that sanctity of life from the moment of conception argument is itself inconsistent with "except in the case of rape, incest, or the mothers health".

You can't say pro-choicers are hypocrites because they think life begins at birth, and then argue life begins dependent upon the circumstances in which the child was conceived.

 

[deljzc]

The debate about Planned Parenthood is not about abortion.

The black/white line people feel about the abortion issues will NEVER go away. Those that feel it's murder the minute the egg and sperm come together and form a zygote are never going to be convinced abortion should be legal in any way, shape or form.

But let's make one thing clear: those that feel that strongly about life starting at conception are in the minority. You are in the minority in this country. You are in the minority in most of the civilized world.

The sooner you realize abortion isn't going anywhere the better because maybe you can get off your religious high horses and moral soap boxes and decide to find way to help people. And that includes reducing abortions (which are going down btw).

I am fine if you want to argue 2nd trimester abortions shouldn't be legal. That's a reasonable position I can understand. I can understand (and agree) it would be criminal for an abortion clinic to purposely delay an abortion so the fetus is worth more money selling it to science.

I can understand (but don't agree) in the position, once the fetus is dead there should be restrictions on what can happen to that body/tissue/cells (whatever you want to call it).

These are all things I would be happy to debate and would actually listen to reasonable positions.

But I'm not going to argue about the legality of abortions in the 1st trimester. I think it is better for our society that women that don't want those pregnancies have a choice to terminate in the first 12 weeks of being pregnant. And I think restricting that ability would do much more harm that good to society. I am strongly of the opinion 1st trimester abortions are not cruel and not some draconian mass-scale murder. It is not the holocaust. Not when we are talking about fetuses that are 1-2" long and lack a majority of brain development. Science just does not support the kind of scare rhetoric the Pro-Life moment makes about this issue.

I also find the resistance by the Pro-Choice side to at least consider some restrictions to 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions to be disingenuous. I find their hard-line stance of woman's rights to be surprisingly similar to the pro-gun lobby's resistance under any circumstance to reasonable gun regulations. People that are on the extremes of ALL these issues (no abortions at all, abortions any time the woman wants, no gun restrictions at all, take all the guns away) are detrimental to the discussion and are on the wrong sides of history.

Compromise is the only outcome. Compromise on religion in government, compromise in gun control, compromise on abortion rights.

 

[oneforthebus]

You can't say pro-choicers are hypocrites because they think life begins at birth, and then argue life begins dependent upon the circumstances in which the child was conceived.

I didn't say they're hypocrites because they say life begins at birth. I said they're hypocrites because they say "Abortion is wrong, I believe in the sanctity of life, but it's none of my business if other people do it." If that were a logical position we'd have no laws against anything at all. When something is clearly wrong we pass laws against it, we don't say "oh, it's wrong alright but it's none of my business".

Life begins at conception, I make no bones about that, as I have repeatedly stated I believe every abortion is a tragedy. Exceptions are not made because that child is not a human or his life is worth less. Exceptions are made because some conditions are so extreme as to make taking a life justifiable. It's up to us as a society to decide when that is, my view on when exceptions should be made may not agree with yours or others, but it's certainly not "none of our business". Unless you believe that all of us have a right to exist solely at our mother's whim. That's the hypocritical part. And even the Supreme Court does not say "it's none of our business". As arbitrary, capricious and medically outdated as that decision may be, it did clearly state that society has an interest in protecting and bestowing certain rights on unborn lives at various stages of development. So clearly from a legal standpoint it's not "none of our business" either.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Compromise is the only outcome. Compromise on religion in government, compromise in gun control, compromise on abortion rights.

What compromise has there been on abortion at this point? Those against it have gotten nothing since Roe V. Wade. Those for it have been able to stretch and expanded their reach to the point that they are now able to alter abortions (beyond the law) and sell baby parts for profit.

In the 70s, the thought of that occurring would have been unheard of. The envelope has been pushed well beyond expectations.

There's been "no compromise" yet the Left wants compromise on things like guns?

Please Del, let me know what compromise has occurred on this issue? I'm also still waiting to hear back from you as to when you've been in a Planned Parenthood facility.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Most abortions are caused by the Mother believing that she can not economically care for the child.
So if your against abortion are you for the government economically supporting mothers to care for
their children if they do not choose abortion?.

9 million kids under 5 die from poverty causes each year in the world and 161 million have stunted growth from hunger.
Do these kids have a right to life and do you support the United States sending more funding to prevent these deaths to
these poverty stricken countries?

 

[deljzc]

What compromise has there been on abortion at this point? Those against it have gotten nothing since Roe V. Wade. Those for it have been able to stretch and expanded their reach to the point that they are now able to alter abortions (beyond the law) and sell baby parts for profit.

In the 70s, the thought of that occurring would have been unheard of. The envelope has been pushed well beyond expectations.

There's been "no compromise" yet the Left wants compromise on things like guns?

Please Del, let me know what compromise has occurred on this issue? I'm also still waiting to hear back from you as to when you've been in a Planned Parenthood facility.

I'm a man. I don't need to go to planned parenthood. But I'm not judging them like you are either. Why don't we just both agree to listen to women that go there and use their services to decide what they do, okay?

The compromise on abortion is as follows:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Number_of_Abortion_Restrictions_Per_State_in_2013.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#/media/File:State_abortion_funding.svg

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Most abortions are caused by the Mother believing that she can not economically care for the child.
So if your against abortion are you for the government economically supporting mothers to care for
their children if they do not choose abortion?

Quit being racist.

 

[Rod Farva]

Most abortions are caused by the Mother believing that she can not economically care for the child.

Then either quit ******* or use birth control.

So if your against abortion are you for the government economically supporting mothers to care for
their children if they do not choose abortion?.

We support the **** outta them now........which completely invalidates your initial posit.

9 million kids under 5 die from poverty causes each year in the world and 161 million have stunted growth from hunger.
Do these kids have a right to life and do you support the United States sending more funding to prevent these deaths to
these poverty stricken countries?

How about we worry about our own first......I'm tempted to quote Sam Kinison here......so, no. Once we get our own economic house in order we can revisit international welfare.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

How about we worry about our own first......I'm tempted to quote Sam Kinison here......so, no. Once we get our own economic house in order we can revisit international welfare.

"We have deserts in America too but we don't live in them."
People in other countries are not our problem. Pretty much every third-world shithole is ****** up because of some combination of lack of capitalism, a dictator running the place, Communism, and lack of a fair legal system and private property rights.

 

[ark steel]

9 million kids under 5 die from poverty causes each year in the world and 161 million have stunted growth from hunger.
Do these kids have a right to life and do you support the United States sending more funding to prevent these deaths to
these poverty stricken countries?

I support any citizen of the US who sends any of their own hard earned money to anywhere they want. If it is to send it to foreign countries to feed/clothe/medicate the poor, all the better. I do NOT support the US government sending our money to any foreign nations without intensive scrutiny as to where the money goes. Since we can't give domestic spending that scrutiny, I don't really expect the foreign money to get it either.

 

[Rod Farva]

I'm a man. I don't need to go to planned parenthood. But I'm not judging them like you are either. Why don't we just both agree to listen to women that go there and use their services to decide what they do, okay?

The compromise on abortion is as follows:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Number_of_Abortion_Restrictions_Per_State_in_2013.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#/media/File:State_abortion_funding.svg

Yeah....PP IS about abortions.

An investigation of 30 Planned Parenthood clinics in 27 different states, conducted by pro-life group Live Action, confirmed that the abortion provider does not perform breast-cancer screenings. "We don't provide those services whatsoever," a staffer at Planned Parenthood of Arizona confessed on tape.

Planned Parenthood's Comprehensive Health Center clinic in Overland Park, Kan., admitted: "We actually don't have a, um, mammogram machine at our clinics."



http://cnsnews.com/commentary/miche...ems-recycle-planned-parenthoods-mammogram-lie

Not to say they do NO mammograms.......they do, but.......

The group performs about 330,000 abortions a year, or roughly 30 percent of all the abortions in the country. By its own accounting in its 2013-2014 annual report, it provides about as many abortions as Pap tests (380,000). The group does more breast exams and provides more breast-care services (490,000), but not by that much.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention provides free or low-cost breast and cervical cancer screenings — without aborting babies. State health departments provide free cancer screenings — without aborting babies. Community health centers provide a range of medical services — without aborting babies.

These organizations are genuinely committed to women’s health, with no ideological commitment to abortion.

Planned Parenthood’s twisted conception of “reproductive health” doesn’t extend to the baby that has been reproduced. All you need to know about its priorities is that it only provides 19,000 “prenatal services,” which means that it performs roughly 17 times more abortions.

http://nypost.com/2015/08/03/planned-parenthoods-pathetic-3-percent-lie/

 

[oneforthebus]

Don't forget that some of the services they offer, including pregnancy testing, gyno exams ( which include breast exams) and Pap smears are drive by abortion services. Many women would go elsewhere for these services if they weren't there for a potential abortion.

 

[deljzc]

Why would I believe anything that guy says when he immediately established himself as pro-life? He immediately calls abortions "killing babies". It's not killing babies to a majority of US citizens.

A fetus that is 1" long is not a baby yet and no amount of scare tactics by the pro-life movement is ever going to change that or convince people. Of course planned parenthood is an abortion clinic and they do abortions. So ******* what? Where do you think abortions happen? Mars? They have to happen somewhere.

And why would I go to a place called "Planned Parenthood" to do a breast exam? Do my breasts have anything to do with "Planning" or "Parenthood"? People go there to discuss sex, contraception, pregnancies, reproductive health and choices.

I guess what is getting in your crawl is not abortions but now the MONEY for abortions. That seems to be the new pro-life policy to control the rights of woman to terminate their pregnancies (most of which happen in the first 12 weeks). So even though it's a medical procedure and even though a LOT of medical procedures are fiscally subsidized by the federal government for poor people, abortions can't be. Why? If it's legal, why isn't it the same as a pap smear or a breast exam or a medical required hysterectomy or a cancerous mole removed? It's only different do YOU.

And no one is giving away abortions for free. Everyone still has to pay. You're bitching because maybe a $400 abortion might end up costing $600 if other things happening in the building aren't also being paid for by the government (like the pap smears and the breast exams and the free contraceptives and the consulting) and helps cover the overhead and salaries of all the people working there. That's a bullshit way to tackle the issue. Of course it makes sense for all those things to happen under the same roof. And if the building gets money for one issue it might *** gasp *** help lower the costs of abortions. Stop the world!!!

And that's the kind of underhanded non-compromising way politicians are doing things now that is driving America crazy. If you can't get the votes you want for your issue, write bullshit laws that restrict the money. It's a fiasco that both sides are doing and it's one reason no one likes everyone in congress. They just don't know when to quit on an issue and say what's done is done and move the **** on. Both sides are moaning more about what laws they want to appeal rather that talking about ways to improve things. Makes great sound bites, but it's a load of horseshit.

 

[Rod Farva]

Why so angry?

Why would I believe anything that guy says when he immediately established himself as pro-life? He immediately calls abortions "killing babies". It's not killing babies to a majority of US citizens.

I could ask the same question .....why should I believe what you post from Wikipedia? Anyone can write almost anything there....at least the sources I cited are genuine "journalism" sites. And I don't really care that the "majority" you cite has been so desensitized and brain washed and become so morally bankrupt that they can dissemble and justify and contort reality into what suits them so they can engage in any activity they choose without consequence.

A fetus that is 1" long is not a baby yet and no amount of scare tactics by the pro-life movement is ever going to change that or convince people.

You are now the self anointed arbiter of what is and is not a "baby"?

Of course planned parenthood is an abortion clinic and they do abortions. So ******* what? Where do you think abortions happen? Mars? They have to happen somewhere.

Whether or not abortions "have to happen" is debatable.....but I do NOT want my money used to pay for what I consider to be murder.

And why would I go to a place called "Planned Parenthood" to do a breast exam? Do my breasts have anything to do with "Planning" or "Parenthood"? People go there to discuss sex, contraception, pregnancies, reproductive health and choices.

Hey, PP is the origin of that excuse, not me.....they use it as a source of plausible deniability for being an abortion factory so ask them that, not me.

I guess what is getting in your crawl ( or craw I suppose) is not abortions but now the MONEY for abortions. Damn right it's part of it.....see above. That seems to be the new pro-life policy to control the rights of woman to terminate their pregnancies (most of which happen in the first 12 weeks). So even though it's a medical procedure and even though a LOT of medical procedures are fiscally subsidized by the federal government for poor people, abortions can't be. Why? If it's legal, why isn't it the same as a pap smear or a breast exam or a medical required hysterectomy or a cancerous mole removed? It's only different do YOU.

You tell me.....shouldn't 'bamacare make PP moot? I mean everything's free now for everyone, right?

And no one is giving away abortions for free. Everyone still has to pay. You're bitching because maybe a $400 abortion might end up costing $600 if other things happening in the building aren't also being paid for by the government (like the pap smears and the breast exams and the free contraceptives and the consulting) and helps cover the overhead and salaries of all the people working there. And you still don't understand what I'm bitching about? That's a bullshit way to tackle the issue. Of course it makes sense for all those things to happen under the same roof. And if the building gets money for one issue it might *** gasp *** help lower the costs of abortions. Stop the world!!!

And that's the kind of underhanded non-compromising way politicians are doing things now that is driving America crazy. If you can't get the votes you want for your issue, write bullshit laws that restrict the money. It's a fiasco that both sides are doing and it's one reason no one likes everyone in congress. They just don't know when to quit on an issue and say what's done is done and move the **** on. Both sides are moaning more about what laws they want to appeal rather that talking about ways to improve things. Makes great sound bites, but it's a load of horseshit.

And please.....can we get back to the completely inhuman, tortuous and barbaric methods of destroying human life designed to "minimize" damage to those oh so important organs that are extracted from those inconsequential blobs of dna?

 

[Yinzerlyn]

I've never met an aborted, dead baby who has said "thank you for aborting me."

 

[deljzc]

This is the extremism of the debate I can't deal with. If you think life starts at conception and the zygote deserves protection as a "human", then you are the extreme. You are the GREAT minority and there is no debating with you how to legislate the United States or how to change the laws for the better. Your point of view will never come to fruition. Never.

So your opinion is really pointless. It doesn't help anything or anybody.

In every political debate there are about 20% so entrenched in each side that will never compromise. It's the 60% in the middle that run this country. You are welcome to be apart of the real movers of policy or you can be an outsider.

It is clear on the issue of abortion, you will not be apart of it.

 

[ark steel]

This is the extremism of the debate I can't deal with. If you think life starts at conception and the zygote deserves protection as a "human", then you are the extreme. You are the GREAT minority and there is no debating with you how to legislate the United States or how to change the laws for the better. Your point of view will never come to fruition. Never.

So your opinion is really pointless. It doesn't help anything or anybody.

In every political debate there are about 20% so entrenched in each side that will never compromise. It's the 60% in the middle that run this country. You are welcome to be apart of the real movers of policy or you can be an outsider.

It is clear on the issue of abortion, you will not be apart of it.

I'd say it is the extremism is not considering it life, but go your own way, dude. It does help somebody, just not somebody you believe in, I guess.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Why would I believe anything that guy says when he immediately established himself as pro-life? He immediately calls abortions "killing babies". It's not killing babies to a majority of US citizens.

A fetus that is 1" long is not a baby yet and no amount of scare tactics by the pro-life movement is ever going to change that or convince people. Of course planned parenthood is an abortion clinic and they do abortions. So ******* what? Where do you think abortions happen? Mars? They have to happen somewhere.

And why would I go to a place called "Planned Parenthood" to do a breast exam? Do my breasts have anything to do with "Planning" or "Parenthood"? People go there to discuss sex, contraception, pregnancies, reproductive health and choices.

I guess what is getting in your crawl is not abortions but now the MONEY for abortions. That seems to be the new pro-life policy to control the rights of woman to terminate their pregnancies (most of which happen in the first 12 weeks). So even though it's a medical procedure and even though a LOT of medical procedures are fiscally subsidized by the federal government for poor people, abortions can't be. Why? If it's legal, why isn't it the same as a pap smear or a breast exam or a medical required hysterectomy or a cancerous mole removed? It's only different do YOU.

And no one is giving away abortions for free. Everyone still has to pay. You're bitching because maybe a $400 abortion might end up costing $600 if other things happening in the building aren't also being paid for by the government (like the pap smears and the breast exams and the free contraceptives and the consulting) and helps cover the overhead and salaries of all the people working there. That's a bullshit way to tackle the issue. Of course it makes sense for all those things to happen under the same roof. And if the building gets money for one issue it might *** gasp *** help lower the costs of abortions. Stop the world!!!

And that's the kind of underhanded non-compromising way politicians are doing things now that is driving America crazy. If you can't get the votes you want for your issue, write bullshit laws that restrict the money. It's a fiasco that both sides are doing and it's one reason no one likes everyone in congress. They just don't know when to quit on an issue and say what's done is done and move the **** on. Both sides are moaning more about what laws they want to appeal rather that talking about ways to improve things. Makes great sound bites, but it's a load of horseshit.

abortion is not the issue with PP for me. The issue is they should not be getting any taxpayer money. The reason they get money is they have been able to portray themselves as an essential overall women's health service provider. Their shills pretend that PP is the only place women can possible get any kind of medical care. It's a lie. It's also a lie that they require any assistance as they clearly turn a profit.

These videos are a big deal because they shatter that myth that PP is a health clinic that just so happens to perform a few abortions from time to time.

You mentioned it being a minority opinion that life begin at conception. That's true. You know what is an even smaller minority position? People who believe late term abortions are NOT murder. That's right. The vast majority, even a majority of those who consider themselves pro-choice (what joke of newspeak hooey) are against late term abortions.

These videos show that PP routinely performs late term and they've found a way to further monetize the grotesque practice.


Why would anybody support PP for any reason other than a political agenda?

I support gun ownership but if they posted undercover videos of a gun shop selling guns to criminals out the back door, i'd be demanding they go to jail, not supporting them.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

abortion is not the issue with PP for me. The issue is they should not be getting any taxpayer money. The reason they get money is they have been able to portray themselves as an essential overall women's health service provider. Their shills pretend that PP is the only place women can possible get any kind of medical care. It's a lie. It's also a lie that they require any assistance as they clearly turn a profit.

That's where I'm at. Take abortion out of the equation, I still don't think they should be getting government money, especially now that BommaCare is supposed to pay for all that anyway, including abortions. I thought Democrats didn't like corporate welfare? Or is welfare for corporations they like okay?

 

[Troglodyte]

I've never met an aborted, dead baby who has said "thank you for aborting me."

Ironically, there's no shortage of people who should have been aborted.

 

[Rod Farva]

This is the extremism of the debate I can't deal with. If you think life starts at conception and the zygote deserves protection as a "human", then you are the extreme. You are the GREAT minority and there is no debating with you how to legislate the United States or how to change the laws for the better. Your point of view will never come to fruition. Never.

So your opinion is really pointless. It doesn't help anything or anybody.

In every political debate there are about 20% so entrenched in each side that will never compromise. It's the 60% in the middle that run this country. You are welcome to be apart of the real movers of policy or you can be an outsider.

It is clear on the issue of abortion, you will not be apart of it.

So now that you've completely ignored the questions and points that I've made you're next move is to write me off as too "extreme" to debate. That's fine, but what it says to me is that you know you're wrong and hold an indefensible position and your best move is to ignore me as too "extreme."

Compromise has its place and is not a foreign concept to me so let me ask......when does one's point of view become "pointless" like mine? Is it if I'm part of the 49% side of an argument? 40? Where's the pointless line?

Are you willing to "compromise" on any of your core principles? Because I call that weakness of will rather than compromise.

I compromise on a daily basis by living with the onerous, unwanted, unnecessary rules and regulations that all Americans deal with because the wishy washy "60%" you cite are so willing to compromise. Your middle "60%" is so "entrenched" in "compromise" that I would say they have become the pointless dishrags on which government counts to be their willing dupes.

I don't want to be a "real mover of policy" if it's just to be a real mover of policy. I want to be a real mover of policy with which I agree. Apparently that to you is somehow wrong. So you continue to capitulate your true beliefs and principles to the "majority." I'll continue to fight for mine.

 

[Vader]

Ironically, there's no shortage of people who should have been aborted.

Are you one of those?