Players Opting Out of Bowl Games

[GRBman]

The correct analogy is the unpaid intern refusing to work the additional time over Christmas...after his internship is over.

The regular season is over for these guys...the bowl games are exhibitions / money-grabs for everyone EXCEPT the players. Stanford will receive millions for the Sun Bowl...the players might get a new Xbox. If you're not coming back to school, I 100% support skipping some mid-tier bowl game in El Paso or Orlando. Come on...

As for comparing this to NFL players, it doesn't relate. The NFL players are under contract and still working the regular season. Now, if you want to compare, compare the preseason to bowl games. ...and guess what, most starters sit out the preseason. They might play a series here and there, but for the most part they sit out.

 

[FordFairLane]

With all the money that goes into College football I would say the teams could pay an insurance company to cover all draftable players. If you are a first round pick you are insured for x million of dollars. If you are rated a 7th round pick you are insured for 50k but everyone who is rated draftable gets insured. Might cost the team a few bucks but when they are making million on the bowl game I think spending a few dollars to insure the product isn't a big deal.

Just looked it cost Jaylon Smith 50k for 5 million in coverage. So the school ponies up 200k to cover all players and divvy up the 20 million accordingly.

 

[Troglodyte]

With all the money that goes into College football I would say the teams could pay an insurance company to cover all draftable players. If you are a first round pick you are insured for x million of dollars. If you are rated a 7th round pick you are insured for 50k but everyone who is rated draftable gets insured. Might cost the team a few bucks but when they are making million on the bowl game I think spending a few dollars to insure the product isn't a big deal.

Just looked it cost Jaylon Smith 50k for 5 million in coverage. So the school ponies up 200k to cover all players and divvy up the 20 million accordingly.

They already get everything for free, if they want to insure themselves, that's on them. The Mannings did it, the McCafferys certainly could have afforded it.

Like I said, if a football scholarship is such a raw deal, don't take it, start preparing for the draft straight out of highschool. And good luck with that...

 

[nitsuj1225]

They already get everything for free, if they want to insure themselves, that's on them. The Mannings did it, the McCafferys certainly could have afforded it.

Like I said, if a football scholarship is such a raw deal, don't take it, start preparing for the draft straight out of highschool. And good luck with that...

Who is saying a football scholarship is a raw deal? You say the value of the scholarship is the free college degree and I don't disagree with that. For scholarship players with no shot at the NFL this is a really good deal. You could argue these players owe something to the school for the free education and you also won't see these guys sitting out. They also have little to lose if they happened to get seriously injured because they weren't making millions in the NFL anyway.

This isn't the NFL where backups earn much less than starters. A Heisman Trophy winner is essentially earning the same scholarship as the backup kicker. Therein lies the dilemma for those 1-2 players from each of the top FBS schools with 1st/2nd round grades. There is a huge difference between getting drafted and earning NFL money vs having to lean on a free degree earning $50k/year in the workforce.

The law of averages would say the value of this free degree is worth about a $50k/year median salary...working 40 years until retirement, that's a gross of $2m. A first round pick will pay more than that in taxes on their signing bonus. So to equate a free degree as this massive pay day for college athletes is short sided. For the vast majority of college athletes you would be correct, however, we are talking about the select few who have the potential to earn more money than any of us will make on this board combined. To risk losing that on 1 meaningless (in the eye of the athlete) game is somewhat reckless.

Now if there are guys out there like Jaylon Smith who want to take that risk of playing then that's great for them and more power to them. But to chastise and question the character of a couple guys who have decided the risk isn't worth it for that 1 game is not a call you can really make unless you're in that situation yourself.

 

[antdrewjosh]

NFLPA head applauds Fournette, McCaffrey for opting to skip bowl games
http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1190192
(via http://thesco.re/theScore_app )

NFLPA head applauds Fournette, McCaffrey for opting to skip bowl games

Michael McClymont*Dec 22, 2016 11:43 AM

Many in the football community have weighed in on the hot topic of college players skipping bowl games with an eye on their professional futures. While LSU's*Leonard Fournette*and*Christian McCaffrey*of Stanford have drawn both praise and criticism for choosing to skip the final game of their college careers, NFLPA president Eric Winston lauds them for what he sees as a sensible choice.

"This is really the first professional financial decision they have to make. It's whether to risk what they have to play in the bowl game," Winston, a veteran tackle for the*Cincinnati Bengals, told*Albert Breer of The MMQB.

"Take Leonard Fournette, because he's a consensus top-five pick. You can put a value on that. You say this is what the second pick of the draft is, this is what the seventh pick of the draft is. And what is the upside of going and playing in the bowl game? It might be a lot. It might be none."

The two college running backs made individual decisions to protect their stock, having both announced they'll be entering the 2017 NFL Draft. It's a move that may spark a flood of collegiate players to do the same.

"I don't say, 'This guy's right or this guy is wrong.' I applaud them for standing up and making a decision, just like I applaud (Texas A&M defensive lineman*Myles Garrett) who sounds like he's gonna be a top-five pick and says, 'Hey, I wanna play.' There's no right or wrong answer. I applaud both of them," Winston said.

Winston owns a unique perspective on the subject, not only as head of the players association but as a witness to a college star suffering a major injury on the eve of their draft. He played with Willis McGahee at the University of Miami when the running back tore his ACL and MCL in the 2002 Fiesta Bowl.

"I was thinking, 'All right, get up like usual, Willis,' and he didn't get up," he said. "I was heartbroken."



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[tapeANaspirin2it]

So McGahee should have sat out the Fiesta Bowl?

 

[GRBman]

So McGahee should have sat out the Fiesta Bowl?

So you're equating the National Championship Game with the Sun Bowl and Citrus Bowl? Is this really a thought of yours or are you just trolling now?

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

So you're equating the National Championship Game with the Sun Bowl and Citrus Bowl? Is this really a thought of yours or are you just trolling now?

I was setting a trap because the article didn't mention that Fiesta Bowl was the national championship game. Trap ruiner!

Read the article and apparently The author thinks McGhaee should have skipped the game. And why not? All the same risk factors apply for a championship as any other game. If you think McCaffrey should skip the Sun Bowl due to injury concerns then why would it be different if the game means more?

should Alabama players skip the playoff game? Maybe their top guys should skip it because that game itself is meaningless. If their top defensive player sat out, they could still win anyway and make it to the championship. Then he can play in that game because it means something and he skipped a meaningless playoff game where he could have gotten injured.

The funny thing about McGahee is that he was still a 1st round pick. He got picked ahead of Larry Johnson. So bringing up McGahee actually hurts McCaffrey's cause.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I was setting a trap because the article didn't mention that Fiesta Bowl was the national championship game. Trap ruiner!

Read the article and apparently The author thinks McGhaee should have skipped the game. And why not? All the same risk factors apply for a championship as any other game. If you think McCaffrey should skip the Sun Bowl due to injury concerns then why would it be different if the game means more?

should Alabama players skip the playoff game? Maybe their top guys should skip it because that game itself is meaningless. If their top defensive player sat out, they could still win anyway and make it to the championship. Then he can play in that game because it means something and he skipped a meaningless playoff game where he could have gotten injured.

The funny thing about McGahee is that he was still a 1st round pick. He got picked ahead of Larry Johnson. So bringing up McGahee actually hurts McCaffrey's cause.

I didn't get that he thought that from the reading the article

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[Steeltime]

Read the article and apparently The author thinks McGhaee should have skipped the game. And why not? All the same risk factors apply for a championship as any other game.

Exactly.

What is the magic game designation that makes it inappropriate to sit out? Playoffs?

Well, the college playoffs involve 3 games. So all other games are optional, I guess. That is the only logical conclusion.

And if sitting out the "Sun Bowl" because, hey, it's just the freaking Sun Bowl, is fine and dandy, then why the hell should these guys play in some stupid "rivalry" game? Ohio State-Michigan, USC-UCLA, Auburn-Alabama, etc. - meaningless freaking games, not even to the "Sun Bowl" level.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Damn, i'm totally screwed with this stupid degree from Stanford and no student loan debt.

Most schools lose money overall on thier sports programs. Every sport but football loses money for schools and half the schools lose on football too. The football money allows most schools to pay for the women's field hockey team, etc.

pay football players then you have to pay the women field hockey player. That means universities start dropping sports left and right. So now a school that gave out say 1000 athletic scholarships is giving out 300.

Screwed is the 700 kids who would have had a scholarship but now get nothing and maybe don't even go to college at all. Why? So the football players can afford the new iPhone and a sleeve of tats. Maybe that player will leave a nice tip for the waitress who would have had a volleyball scholarship but instead she works 2 jobs.

Capitalism, college football makes tons of money for most schools. Communism, the college football revenue keeping things like women's field hockey a scholarship program. I'm for capitalism...if the sport makes money the revenue generators should share in the revenue they are generating (men's football). If the sport loses money let student athletes play the recreational game, not football players responsibility to keep money drains like women's field hockey alive, at least not if you believe in capitalism.

I'd love to see the number of scholarship football players that actually earn their degrees and go on to use them in their fields. Sure schools like Stanford that have excellent academics and a relatively low number of NFL ballers probably do have several graduate and use their degrees, but the Stanfords are more of an exception than the norm if you break down the numbers.

These scholarship athletes in football have to go to school (if they don't fudge the system, which many do), attend practices and workouts and are left little to no time to hold down a job as well. They generate revenue through their play far beyond the money doled out to football scholarships...so paying them only makes sense if you want them to risk future pay for meaningless bowl games that could potentially damage future income possibilities.

 

[Stryker]

Capitalism, college football makes tons of money for most schools. Communism, the college football revenue keeping things like women's field hockey a scholarship program. I'm for capitalism...if the sport makes money the revenue generators should share in the revenue they are generating (men's football). If the sport loses money let student athletes play the recreational game, not football players responsibility to keep money drains like women's field hockey alive, at least not if you believe in capitalism.

I'd love to see the number of scholarship football players that actually earn their degrees and go on to use them in their fields. Sure schools like Stanford that have excellent academics and a relatively low number of NFL ballers probably do have several graduate and use their degrees, but the Stanfords are more of an exception than the norm if you break down the numbers.

These scholarship athletes in football have to go to school (if they don't fudge the system, which many do), attend practices and workouts and are left little to no time to hold down a job as well. They generate revenue through their play far beyond the money doled out to football scholarships...so paying them only makes sense if you want them to risk future pay for meaningless bowl games that could potentially damage future income possibilities.

That's the problem Fiji, the NCAA is the governing body for all Collegiate athletics. Not just Football. My first job was in athletics in the University of Maryland system. To receive any NCAA funding or scholarships, you must have as many women's teams as you have men's teams. That's why people throw out the term 'Field Hockey', since it's a Women's only sport (for the most part) in this country. It balances out the Men's only sport of Football. (Though Field Hockey usually balances out Ice Hockey, and Cheerleading balances out Football).

There is no choice in the system while the NCAA is in charge of scholarships, discipline, and eligibility. They hold the cards. Rock the boat, and your school gets sanctions. It's the way Goodell wants to run the NFL. He wishes he had the power the NCAA has.

 

[nitsuj1225]

All the same risk factors apply for a championship as any other game. If you think McCaffrey should skip the Sun Bowl due to injury concerns then why would it be different if the game means more?

should Alabama players skip the playoff game?

Exactly.

What is the magic game designation that makes it inappropriate to sit out? Playoffs?

Well, the college playoffs involve 3 games. So all other games are optional, I guess. That is the only logical conclusion.

And if sitting out the "Sun Bowl" because, hey, it's just the freaking Sun Bowl, is fine and dandy, then why the hell should these guys play in some stupid "rivalry" game? Ohio State-Michigan, USC-UCLA, Auburn-Alabama, etc. - meaningless freaking games, not even to the "Sun Bowl" level.

Vince Young made a name for himself for his performance in the Championship game. Cam Newton did as well. Zeke Elliot did the same 2 years ago. How many guys can you name who put up big numbers in previous Sun Bowls without looking them up? Having a big game on the national stage in one of the playoff games or especially the National Championship brings much more recognition (from fans and NFL teams) than winning MVP of the Idaho Potato Bowl.

That's like wondering why an ad spot during the Canadian League football championships doesn't cost the same as the lowB repuS.

 

[nitsuj1225]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/t...-mccaffrey-who-skip-bowl-games-183937558.html

...“Fournette and McCaffrey, it really isn’t a big deal,” one NFC North personnel evaluator said. “You can argue the kids made a thoughtful decision based on their situation...."

..."[Fournette and McCaffrey] will definitely get some red-assed questions in [team] interviews, but I don’t think it will really hurt either very much."...

...“Look, if [Fournette] is Zeke [on the NFL level], nobody is going to care about him sitting out of a bowl game to get his health where it needs to be,” the NFC North evaluator said. “What are the [Carolina] Panthers doing with Luke Kuechly? He’s probably going to sit the rest of the season because of concussion [concerns]. That’s probably smart by the Panthers. If we’re fair to Fournette, we have to say, ‘This kid is being smart about the long-term picture.’ For lesser guys who still have something to prove, maybe it’s not smart. But for Fournette and probably McCaffrey, they’ll be fine.”...

..."All of which spells out the case-by-case nature the NFC North evaluator was speaking to. Something like this:

• Sitting out a bowl game isn’t a seismic event to NFL teams if a combination of these factors exist: it’s an elite player who doesn’t have a litany of character concerns; there’s a foundation of nagging injuries that have impacted play; and a bowl game isn’t part of the college football playoff, and is in effect, meaningless.

• Sitting out a bowl game is a seismic event to NFL teams if: there are character red flags; there aren’t injuries that require time to heal; the bowl game is part of the college football playoff.

As one NFC general manager put it succinctly: Either it’s a continuation of something they’ve already seen about a player’s character, or it’s an outlier driven by circumstance.

“It’s not like, ‘He sat out, so he’s just a bad guy,'” the GM said. “It’s basically just one more part of the picture – and it might just be a really small part.”


Straight from the mouth of an "NFC North evaluator"...basically what myself, antdrewjosh, GRBman and some others have been saying this whole thread. If a player has proven to be a top player for 2-3 years with no hints of character issues and is projected to go 1st round or even 2nd, the player has nothing left to prove for the NFL (aside from the combine) and therefore has much more to lose by playing in a meaningless bowl game and risking serious injury.

 

[SteelerFan448]

The correct analogy is the unpaid intern refusing to work the additional time over Christmas...after his internship is ove

So you're equating the National Championship Game with the Sun Bowl and Citrus Bowl? Is this really a thought of yours or are you just trolling now?

National Championship Game = unpaid internship that requires additional time after Christmas

When players sign on, bowl games are almost a certainty, so I find it hard to accept the idea of an unpaid internship as a comparable example, but if it is, it must also apply to the title game.

 

[Steeltime]

Vince Young made a name for himself for his performance in the Championship game. Cam Newton did as well. Zeke Elliot did the same 2 years ago. How many guys can you name who put up big numbers in previous Sun Bowls without looking them up? Having a big game on the national stage in one of the playoff games or especially the National Championship brings much more recognition (from fans and NFL teams) than winning MVP of the Idaho Potato Bowl.

That's like wondering why an ad spot during the Canadian League football championships doesn't cost the same as the lowB repuS.

Yeah, except that McCaffrey expressly fears injury from North ******* Carolina's football team.

And we should trust that he is not going to fear injury when playing adults?!?

 

[SteelerSask2]

A national championship is a team and personal accomplishment that every NCAA athelete should strive for. That is something to look back on as one of your lifetime achievements. The Sun Bowl is not. Sorry. Because of the nature of football they can't have a tournament like the road to the final four. But these bowl games for the most part are the equivalent of a friendship final. Meaningless match ups.

 

[nitsuj1225]

Yeah, except that McCaffrey expressly fears injury from North ******* Carolina's football team.

And we should trust that he is not going to fear injury when playing adults?!?

The opponent is irrelevant. Injuries can happen against anyone at any time. Whether it's against Alabama or Tennessee Tech. The idea is to minimize the risk of injury between now and the draft.

If an NFL GM doesn't have an issue in the cases of Fournette or McCaffrey, why should fans? GMs depend on these players for their jobs so I think their opinion means more than the average fan.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I didn't get that he thought that from the reading the article

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Really? If that's not the point then why even bring up McGahee?

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

The opponent is irrelevant. Injuries can happen against anyone at any time. Whether it's against Alabama or Tennessee Tech. The idea is to minimize the risk of injury between now and the draft.

If an NFL GM doesn't have an issue in the cases of Fournette or McCaffrey, why should fans? GMs depend on these players for their jobs so I think their opinion means more than the average fan.

That's right and i'm saying if i was a GM, i would now have a far lesser opinion on McCaffrey. Now i'm thinking he will be a guy who is just a money player, always thinking of his value over the team. Will probably quit to become a broadcaster or something after a few years.

What makes this decision even worse is that McCaffrey grew up with money. His dad made lots of money in the NFL so it's not like he's in some Eminem 8 Mile situation where this is his one chance at life to make it.

Sorry, it's a ***** move. I wouldn't draft him unless he fell to the 3rd round at least.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/t...-mccaffrey-who-skip-bowl-games-183937558.html

...“Fournette and McCaffrey, it really isn’t a big deal,” one NFC North personnel evaluator said. “You can argue the kids made a thoughtful decision based on their situation...."

..."[Fournette and McCaffrey] will definitely get some red-assed questions in [team] interviews, but I don’t think it will really hurt either very much."...

...“Look, if [Fournette] is Zeke [on the NFL level], nobody is going to care about him sitting out of a bowl game to get his health where it needs to be,” the NFC North evaluator said. “What are the [Carolina] Panthers doing with Luke Kuechly? He’s probably going to sit the rest of the season because of concussion [concerns]. That’s probably smart by the Panthers. If we’re fair to Fournette, we have to say, ‘This kid is being smart about the long-term picture.’ For lesser guys who still have something to prove, maybe it’s not smart. But for Fournette and probably McCaffrey, they’ll be fine.”...

..."All of which spells out the case-by-case nature the NFC North evaluator was speaking to. Something like this:

• Sitting out a bowl game isn’t a seismic event to NFL teams if a combination of these factors exist: it’s an elite player who doesn’t have a litany of character concerns; there’s a foundation of nagging injuries that have impacted play; and a bowl game isn’t part of the college football playoff, and is in effect, meaningless.

• Sitting out a bowl game is a seismic event to NFL teams if: there are character red flags; there aren’t injuries that require time to heal; the bowl game is part of the college football playoff.

As one NFC general manager put it succinctly: Either it’s a continuation of something they’ve already seen about a player’s character, or it’s an outlier driven by circumstance.

“It’s not like, ‘He sat out, so he’s just a bad guy,'” the GM said. “It’s basically just one more part of the picture – and it might just be a really small part.”


Straight from the mouth of an "NFC North evaluator"...basically what myself, antdrewjosh, GRBman and some others have been saying this whole thread. If a player has proven to be a top player for 2-3 years with no hints of character issues and is projected to go 1st round or even 2nd, the player has nothing left to prove for the NFL (aside from the combine) and therefore has much more to lose by playing in a meaningless bowl game and risking serious injury.

Problem is, McCaffrey is not injured as far as i know, so by your own source, it is a red flag on McCaffrey but not Fournette, as i stated earlier.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Really? If that's not the point then why even bring up McGahee?

Because Winston was a teammate of McGahee.

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[SteelerSask2]

I totally disagree. His father played the game for 13 years. He knows exactly what it is. It's a business. When you are hurt and can't do anything with you they cut your *** and tell you sorry it's just business. So tell me why the player should view it in any other light. Sure he should want to win a championship. If he didn't care I wouldn't want him on my team. But as a GM I could sort that out one way or the other in a 20 minute conversation.

 

[nitsuj1225]

That's right and i'm saying if i was a GM, i would now have a far lesser opinion on McCaffrey. Now i'm thinking he will be a guy who is just a money player, always thinking of his value over the team. Will probably quit to become a broadcaster or something after a few years.

What makes this decision even worse is that McCaffrey grew up with money. His dad made lots of money in the NFL so it's not like he's in some Eminem 8 Mile situation where this is his one chance at life to make it.

Sorry, it's a ***** move. I wouldn't draft him unless he fell to the 3rd round at least.

Maybe that's why you aren't a GM. An actual GM has come out and said McCaffrey's decision won't effect his draft status. McCaffrey's own teammates have expressed their support for him. Literally everyone that matters has expressed support for his decision except for pissed off fans who think the college stars owe something to these colleges in a meaningless bowl game.

 

[Steeltime]

Maybe that's why you aren't a GM. An actual GM has come out and said McCaffrey's decision won't effect his draft status.

Not quite. Somebody - identified only as "one NFC North personnel evaluator" reportedly (that means, the recitation as to what the guy said and $4 will get you a coffee at Starbucks) said, “You can argue the kids made a thoughtful decision based on their situation...."

Additionally, the same article noted that "Sitting out a bowl game is a seismic event to NFL teams if ...there aren’t injuries that require time to heal."

So what is McCaffrey's injury? Is it the same one that "limited" him to 30 carries against Rice?

McCaffrey's own teammates have expressed their support for him.

Oh for **** sake ... what the **** do you expect them to say??? "That McCaffrey is a selfish ****"??