Rudolph vs Pickett

[Hines field]

I think they put KP in too early though I agreed with the Jets game. I also think comparing his stats to Rudolph or Manning is assnine. He has looked good arm strength, mobility and accuracy and he makes decisions like a rookie and the offense is JV at best.

I agree, threw manning out just to show the cherry picking of stats. He was our 1st round pick. We are rolling with him for the foreseeable future. Going to have ups and downs.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I don't know. But I think Mason will be gone next year.

Rather keep him and trade Mitch.

 

[Gildong Sack]

Rudolph first 130 passes at age 24.06
83/130 897 yards 9 tds 3 ints

Pickett first 127 passes at age 24.118
87/127 771 yards 2 td 7 int

One is clearly better than the other.

Different offense, different OC, different O-line, etc. Apples and oranges. What's that old saying? " statistics are like a bikini..."

 

[jitter77]

Watching Mason play vs Pickett is not close IMO. Most of Rudolphs tds when filling in for Ben were wide open WRs or WRs breaking tackles. I posted a youtube video of all his td passes in another thread. Pickett seems to have a better arm, more mobility, and just a better presence on the field. Pickett doesnt have the luxury of open WRs and is limited to using 1/3 of the field which is ridiculous. I still think Mitch is the best QB currently, but we are going to endure the growing pains w/ Pickett. I think Pickett will turn into a good QB just need to get him out of this horrific offense.

 

[livingthrudying]

I think they put KP in too early though I agreed with the Jets game. I also think comparing his stats to Rudolph or Manning is assnine. He has looked good arm strength, mobility and accuracy and he makes decisions like a rookie and the offense is JV at best.

My only issue with having Kenny playing is any bad habits or anything else bad he may learn from this offense. It could set him back a little but hopefully not.

 

[SteelerSask2]

My only issue with having Kenny playing is any bad habits or anything else bad he may learn from this offense. It could set him back a little but hopefully not.

Agreed ir simply losing his confidence and seeing ghosts.

 

[FordFairLane]

Different offense, different OC, different O-line, etc. Apples and oranges. What's that old saying? " statistics are like a bikini..."

It’s the epitome of an apples-to-apples comparison. An apples to oranges comparison would be comparing Kenny Pickett to Quay Walker.

 

[FordFairLane]

Have no idea if Kenny is the real deal or not. We know mason is not. But Kenny and any football player on this earth deserves a competent OC before he is judged. Hell Canada even made Ben look like the worst QB to ever play the game. Kenny may still suck, that is a possibility. However i am not sure if there is a human being that exists that could look or do good with Canada. He really is that bad. I mean we are talking bring in someone who has never even watched a game of football and knows nothing about the game and they probably wouldn't do worse. I am really not trying to be a smart *** but this guy is truly pathetic. He could probably make Tom Brady look worse than Ryan Leaf He's that bad.

I do know Mason started off way better than KP.

And the straw man argument of blaming Canada for Kenny but not Fichtner for Rudolph is asinine. Be better. Have a valid point if you are going to refute statistical data.

 

[FordFairLane]

You do realize that Haley was gone for before Mason was drafted right? I mean you are right that Mason had terrible stats under Haley, not even a single completion or anything! LOL

Haley, Arians, Fichtner. They’re all running together as one long line of scapegoats.

 

[ianv2012]

Thank you for not contributing anything intelligent. Buh-Bye

You started it

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Peyton Manning 1st 4 games
81/146 992 yards. 3 tds 11 picks

Clearly he was a bust and shows we should move on from the Kenny experiment.

I agree Rudolph gets a bad rep but he is not elite and is not the long term answer. I have no tie to the Panthers so don’t care as I am not a long term Kenny fan. However it is clear that he has more command of the offense than any other Qb on the roster. He is going to take his lumps this year and learn. No reason to play Rudolph or Mitch, this team is NOT going anywhere this year, to many holes. Might as well let Kenny get his experience this year as opposed to having the team suck this year and then move on to a second year QB in their first live action and throw season 2 down the drain.

No offense, but this is an idiotic argument. Everyone realizes that the NFL is WAY more QB friendly today than it was 20+ years ago.

The top QB in 1998, B. Favre, threw for ~4,200 31TD's and 26INTs.
The top QB in 2022, Brady, threw for ~5,300 43TD's and 12INTs.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Hell lets take a look at how the rest of our division QB's did during their first 4 games:

	Comp.	Att.	%	Yds	Y/A	TD	INT	Avg Rating
Lamar	52​	89​	58.4%​	600​	6.74​	3​	3​	76%​
Burrow	116​	177​	65.5%​	1121​	6.33​	6​	2​	88%​
Watson	74​	114​	64.9%​	811​	7.11​	7​	4​	88%​
Pickett	87​	127​	68.5%​	771​	6.07​	2​	7​	73%​

I agree its way to early too call him a bust. But it is TOTALLY within reason to say that he better start picking up his play, because this supposed 'pro-ready' QB has fallen behind his peers.

 

[jitter77]

Everyone was calling for Pickett now all the sudden he is a bust because he can't lead our crappy team to win. People need to get a grip. Our offensive scheme is just plain awful. Watch how NE uses Zappe compared to what we do. No QB has a shot in our offense. On a side note NE benched Jones for Zappe and Zappe took them to 2 quick scores.

 

[Omar10213245]

Rudolph first 130 passes at age 24.06
83/130 897 yards 9 tds 3 ints

Pickett first 127 passes at age 24.118
87/127 771 yards 2 td 7 int

One is clearly better than the other.

Jesus Christ man, you still wont shut the hell up about Mason dogshite Rudolph???

 

[Hines field]

No offense, but this is an idiotic argument. Everyone realizes that the NFL is WAY more QB friendly today than it was 20+ years ago.

The top QB in 1998, B. Favre, threw for ~4,200 31TD's and 26INTs.
The top QB in 2022, Brady, threw for ~5,300 43TD's and 12INTs.

No the idiot argument is expecting him to come in and make us a championship team. We are far from one player changing that. How many picks were off our wr hands, one was a Hail Mary. Last night one was a missed pass Interference. 2 were bad a rookie on the road trying to make a comeback. So many here call every player a bust. Hell people were calling Troy a f ing bust. We are a bad team. Coaching is a big reason.
I can look at 4 of his picks and say they were not on him. Can he improve hell yes but he is the least of this teams worries.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

No the idiot argument is expecting him to come in and make us a championship team. We are far from one player changing that. How many picks were off our wr hands, one was a Hail Mary. Last night one was a missed pass Interference. 2 were bad a rookie on the road trying to make a comeback. So many here call every player a bust. Hell people were calling Troy a f ing bust. We are a bad team. Coaching is a big reason.
I can look at 4 of his picks and say they were not on him. Can he improve hell yes but he is the least of this teams worries.

No one expects a rookie QB to make a team an instant contender- although Herbert sort of did that with SD. My issue is that I would expect a 24 year old, pro ready QB with over 50 starts in college, not to make two boneheaded throws which directly lost us the game.

And yes, he is not the only reason we are losing. But whiffing on a 1st round QB can set a team back for years...


Also, let's stop with the interception thing. Every QB deals with wr falling down, droped balls, hailmary's. It's a part of the game. Just another example Ford was making of how people continue to look for excuses.

 

[jitter77]

No one expects a rookie QB to make a team an instant contender- although Herbert sort of did that with SD. My issue is that I would expect a 24 year old, pro ready QB with over 50 starts in college, not to make two boneheaded throws which directly lost us the game.

And yes, he is not the only reason we are losing. But whiffing on a 1st round QB can set a team back for years...


Also, let's stop with the interception thing. Every QB deals with wr falling down, droped balls, hailmary's. It's a part of the game. Just another example Ford was making of how people continue to look for excuses.

1 bonehead throw was due to offense ineptness. We went from a converted 3rd and 1 to 3rd and 16 because of penalties. It was not a good choice, but it was borderline desperation. The last int was definitely desperation and maybe miscommunication. Again not the best choice and Pickett could have ran, but Ben has done the same bonehead things. When you are constantly playing from behind and handcuffed 90% of the game these things happen often.

 

[Hines field]

No one expects a rookie QB to make a team an instant contender- although Herbert sort of did that with SD. My issue is that I would expect a 24 year old, pro ready QB with over 50 starts in college, not to make two boneheaded throws which directly lost us the game.

And yes, he is not the only reason we are losing. But whiffing on a 1st round QB can set a team back for years...


Also, let's stop with the interception thing. Every QB deals with wr falling down, droped balls, hailmary's. It's a part of the game. Just another example Ford was making of how people continue to look for excuses.

Disagree people are expecting that and calling to bench him. That is what this thread was about no? Saying the better qb is on the bench. As for interceptions sure every qb has that over a course of a season though the reality in the small window Kenny has played he has been let down several times. Again not an excuse but a fact. You can’t argue that. So I’m not giving him a pass as he has to learn from his mistakes. Overall the team is bad the play calling is bad, the coaching is bad. I just feel it’s a bit of an over reaction to be calling a 1st rounder or any player a bust in 2 full games and 2 halves of their rookie season.

 

[FordFairLane]

No one expects a rookie QB to make a team an instant contender- although Herbert sort of did that with SD. My issue is that I would expect a 24 year old, pro ready QB with over 50 starts in college, not to make two boneheaded throws which directly lost us the game.

And yes, he is not the only reason we are losing. But whiffing on a 1st round QB can set a team back for years...


Also, let's stop with the interception thing. Every QB deals with wr falling down, droped balls, hailmary's. It's a part of the game. Just another example Ford was making of how people continue to look for excuses.

Yep, I will cheer for KP and will judge the season how much he improves. The things that impress me is his arm, accuracy, mobility and his confidence. We need him to develop otherwise the next 2 1/2 years are gonna be rough. But we might as well stick with him. We put our chips all in on 8. Lets hope we win big.

My point is just how it’s funny how all the mouth breathers hated Rudolph for playing way better than Pickett is now and making excuses for Pickett. If you are going to criticize Rudolph at least be consistent and do the same to Pickett.

 

[topseed]

So 30/50 242 yards with 1/1 is a performance. What would a 32/44 257 yards with 1/3 be considered? Or 10/13 120 with 0/3?

Yes, yes it surely was a **** performance. I guess a 70.6 passer rating and 4.84 yards per attempt might impress me if it were my nephew, too. And those KP games you listed there? I'd consider them even shittier, although surprisingly not much worse as far as passer rating, at 66.2 and 65.1, respectively.

I am using the first 130 attempts of Rudolph vs the first 127 attempts of Pickett. You are making excuses for Pickett but vilifying Rudolph. Why the double standard? Rudolph was thrown in at a younger age than Pickett and performed better. He was thrown in vs the Lions with Roethlisberger being a last minute covid scratch and he performed like , remember? Why the excuses for Pickett but not Rudolph ? How about the perfect pass he threw to DJ but incongruously he stopped his route. Or the drive to win the game that Freiermuth fumbled to give the lions the ball back which would have been in FG for Boswell. But **** Rudolph, right?
Maybe all Rudolph will ever be is a backup. But I do know this. He played above the line when called upon and has been unfairly hated by the fan base.

Rudolph was not "thrown in" anywhere. Again, he already had a year in the NFL under his belt before he saw the field. Two minicamps. Two training camps. Two preseasons. A full offseason in the system. He was no longer a rookie like Pickett is now. Even a simpleton like you should be able to discern the difference there.

I didn't make any excuses for Pickett, other than the fact that you are using a tiny sample size at the start of his rookie season. As I pointed out, Rudolph's numbers have come way down since his first 130 attempts, but that doesn't fit your agenda, so you ignore them (or stupidly attempt to glorify a 70.6 passer rating against a winless team). Yes, we know that you're very proud of Mason for getting the Steelers into the deepest fringe of field goal range in the 70th minute of the Lions game, after putting up 16 points all day, except that when Freiermuth fumbled with 8 seconds left, he was being tackled in bounds. Maybe they get off that 56-yard field goal attempt at Heinz Field, maybe they don't -- either way, it certainly wasn't guaranteed, now was it?

You want excuses? Well one pick was because Claypool can't high-point a football. And another pick deflected off of Freiermuth's hands. And a third pick was on a Hail Mary. And a fourth pick should have been negated by defensive pass interference when Claypool fell/was knocked down. How's that?

I do know that KP has more than 250 attempts coming to help improve his rating beyond Mason's ****** career number of 80.9. Let's wait and compare notes then, Uncle FairLane.

 

[topseed]

I never said that we needed to sit KP8 for MR. I don't think that. I think that KP* should start, and MR back him. I see no need for MT at all. He clearly wasn't the future, so he should not be starting.

Um, yes you did. You said: "Put in MR and see what we have."

I still think we don't know MR's ceiling. It's all guessing. He had decent rookie numbers when he backed up Ben. He might have been the way to go. Who knows? No one. His numbers were not bad for a new guy with little time under center.

We do know MT's ceiling. Not impressive, and with canada's offense he looks worse. No future starter there, IMO.

Well, then we disagree. I'd seen enough of Rudolph after the Lions game. His ceiling is right above the floor. If he proves me wrong somewhere else, God bless the guy.

 

[MT~Forged]

Uh, why the comparison to Rudolph? Rudolph hasn’t accomplished anywhere near what Trubisky has. If Pickett is benched, Trubisky should be the QB. Unless there’s an injury, Rudolph is irrelevant to the QB conversation.

Did KP8 **** your old lady and then piss in your Cheerios while cleaning his schlong on your favorite cardigan?

 

[topseed]

Also, let's stop with the interception thing. Every QB deals with wr falling down, droped balls, hailmary's. It's a part of the game. Just another example Ford was making of how people continue to look for excuses.

Right, but it's A-OK for Ford to make every excuse in the book for Rudolph, and classify his last start against the Lions as a "decent performance." No double standard there, yeah?

 

[steelreeling]

Kenny Pickoff

hope it's just being a rookie

i worry about the kid's demeanor. affable guy being coached by nitwits.

if they keep him in, he's either
1. gonna keep slinging it and take more and more chances trying to hold the ball to extend plays = more picks, a terrible injury. Either way not much results to build on nor learn from - (you learn from success in today's NFL not failure as in Manning's experience. see Herbert, Justin);
or
2. Ken turtles up & gets gun-shy. Starts managing the game. Learns that.

Take him out and risk turning off his competitive nature and emotional vibe; or even stunt his growth in learning the game by disappointing him & letting him watch the suckerific offense make 1 play out of every 10. And of course leaving him in could just as well do both of those things.

idfk.

Steelers' 1st hit on a QB in several decades and they want wring the **** out of the kid his first year in the league?

Untenable situation they got him in. i think back to Ben's development - sure he had magic in spades. But it really was the kick-*** team around him that ingrained the Winner inside him. Vick on Falcons is great example as the foil to the situation that Ben had.

 

[Djfan]

Um, yes you did. You said: "Put in MR and see what we have."

You're right. I wasn't clear. I'll try again.

MT was being offered as an option to KP8 since disappointment with Him was being expressed. My take is that MR was preferable.

Here's where I see us disagreeing - You think MR is just no good. I don't.

I don't have a take on your views of MT except it seems you prefer him to MR. To me, the body of known work on MT is much more than on MR, and that body of work is not impressive, consistently.

The body of work on MR is not as vast, and he did alright, with a few exceptions, IMO.

So we disagree. No worries. Still don't understand how the MT signing - even though we got a great bargain on him - was necessary. Neither he nor MR are the future here.

To be clear, if KP8 is benched or injured, I hope to see MR in the game instead of MT.