Rudolph vs Pickett

[Troglodyte]

Did KP8 **** your old lady and then piss in your Cheerios while cleaning his schlong on your favorite cardigan?

Do you miss the middle school locker room that much?

 

[FordFairLane]

Yes, yes it surely was a **** performance. I guess a 70.6 passer rating and 4.84 yards per attempt might impress me if it were my nephew, too. And those KP games you listed there? I'd consider them even shittier, although surprisingly not much worse as far as passer rating, at 66.2 and 65.1, respectively.

Rudolph was not "thrown in" anywhere. Again, he already had a year in the NFL under his belt before he saw the field. Two minicamps. Two training camps. Two preseasons. A full offseason in the system. He was no longer a rookie like Pickett is now. Even a simpleton like you should be able to discern the difference there.

I didn't make any excuses for Pickett, other than the fact that you are using a tiny sample size at the start of his rookie season. As I pointed out, Rudolph's numbers have come way down since his first 130 attempts, but that doesn't fit your agenda, so you ignore them (or stupidly attempt to glorify a 70.6 passer rating against a winless team). Yes, we know that you're very proud of Mason for getting the Steelers into the deepest fringe of field goal range in the 70th minute of the Lions game, after putting up 16 points all day, except that when Freiermuth fumbled with 8 seconds left, he was being tackled in bounds. Maybe they get off that 56-yard field goal attempt at Heinz Field, maybe they don't -- either way, it certainly wasn't guaranteed, now was it?

You want excuses? Well one pick was because Claypool can't high-point a football. And another pick deflected off of Freiermuth's hands. And a third pick was on a Hail Mary. And a fourth pick should have been negated by defensive pass interference when Claypool fell/was knocked down. How's that?

I do know that KP has more than 250 attempts coming to help improve his rating beyond Mason's ****** career number of 80.9. Let's wait and compare notes then, Uncle FairLane.

Rudolph didn’t have two senior years starting either. Bottom line is age. When Rudolph was thrown into the lineup he wasn’t expected to play that season. It was because of injury. He played well, not great, then got concussed. Had one horrible 4 int game vs the Browns and the fan base lost their about him. Pickett has already had two 3 int games. But they made excuses for him. There’s no excuse for that last pick Monday night. None. He threw up a hope and prayer into double coverage with the receiver not even expecting it when he had ample room to run for the first and get out of bounds that would have left 36-38 seconds on the clock. If Rudolph would have done that the fan base would probably write him death threats.

 

[livingthrudying]

Haley, Arians, Fichtner. They’re all running together as one long line of scapegoats.

I'll give you Fichtner but Haley and Arians were not in the same class as Canada and Ficthner.

 

[paperclip]

i worry about the kid's demeanor. affable guy being coached by nitwits.

Untenable situation they got him in. i think back to Ben's development - sure he had magic in spades. But it really was the kick-*** team around him that ingrained the Winner inside him. Vick on Falcons is great example as the foil to the situation that Ben had.

i was thinking about these two things this weekend. The team is so young, and I believe that none of the receivers we have now have been "coached up" by previous steelers.

I would think that previous teams had seasoned vets to help the young guys.

 

[Gildong Sack]

It’s the epitome of an apples-to-apples comparison. An apples to oranges comparison would be comparing Kenny Pickett to Quay Walker.

Absolutely not. Mason had better protection and was running an O that allowed for deep throws...and for many games when Ben was hurt all he would do was check down. Finally two years ago we saw him air it out in a late season game against the Browns where he had nothing to lose and the Browns had the playoffs locked up. He did well no doubt(because his strength is the deep ball), it's his intermediate route accuracy that is inconsistent. Now imagine him behind this line throwing across the middle......out of the two vet QBs we have he is the worst choice. I would put Mitch back in before the thought even crosses my mind of putting Mason back in. I've seen enough.

 

[topseed]

You're right. I wasn't clear. I'll try again.

MT was being offered as an option to KP8 since disappointment with Him was being expressed. My take is that MR was preferable.

To be clear, if KP8 is benched or injured, I hope to see MR in the game instead of MT.

Yes, if you still believe KP should remain as the starter, you were quite ambiguous. Because in that same post, you also said: "(MR) is better than MT, and for now (note that) better than KP8." So it remains unclear to me why you wouldn't want Rudolph to start if you feel that (for now) he's better than Pickett is.

Here's where I see us disagreeing - You think MR is just no good. I don't.

Correct.

I don't have a take on your views of MT except it seems you prefer him to MR. To me, the body of known work on MT is much more than on MR, and that body of work is not impressive, consistently.

The body of work on MR is not as vast, and he did alright, with a few exceptions, IMO.

So we disagree. No worries. Still don't understand how the MT signing - even though we got a great bargain on him - was necessary. Neither he nor MR are the future here.

I liked the Trubisky signing, but he has been disappointing to me. I think it was necessary and prudent at the time, because a) the Steelers didn't have any confidence in Rudolph as their starting quarterback (obviously they still don't), and b) they didn't think that Pickett was going to be available to them at #20.

 

[topseed]

Rudolph didn’t have two senior years starting either. Bottom line is age. When Rudolph was thrown into the lineup he wasn’t expected to play that season. It was because of injury. He played well, not great, then got concussed. Had one horrible 4 int game vs the Browns and the fan base lost their about him. Pickett has already had two 3 int games. But they made excuses for him.

A fun fact for "mouth breathers": College isn't the NFL.

Nonetheless, Rudolph started for his last three years at Oklahoma State while averaging over 450 attempts per season, so he had plenty of collegiate experience. Yet another baseless excuse from you.

There’s no excuse for that last pick Monday night. None. He threw up a hope and prayer into double coverage with the receiver not even expecting it when he had ample room to run for the first and get out of bounds that would have left 36-38 seconds on the clock. If Rudolph would have done that the fan base would probably write him death threats.

There sure isn't. And nobody is making an excuse for that particular play, certainly not me. In fact, in another thread, I said this:

"The interceptions were bad, no doubt. But on the last one, I believe Pickett was thinking a bit too much about the clock -- he thought for a split-second about just taking off with the ball, but he feared (I guess) getting tackled in bounds and running out of time, so he tried to force it downfield. Looking at the replay, he could have easily picked up the first down with his legs inside the 20, and gotten out of bounds with about 18 seconds left. He'll learn."

So, no, there weren't 36-38 seconds left, it was 18 seconds, but the fact remains that KP made a poor decision in that situation. No one has said otherwise.

 

[livingthrudying]

I do know Mason started off way better than KP.

And the straw man argument of blaming Canada for Kenny but not Fichtner for Rudolph is asinine. Be better. Have a valid point if you are going to refute statistical data

You mean have a point that agrees with what you want? I mean I could say that at least Fichtner understood to use the whole field. That alone shoots your whole statistical data down the tube. But you don't want that do you. You want to pick and choose the things that support what you want to believe. Anyone else that says anything that is, might or could be valid is wrong and your gonna get butt hurt and insult them in a back handed way if not straight up. What rich is watching you tell people that they bring nothing intelligent to the conversation yet you discuss things like a 2 year old. When it doesn't fit your narrative you throw a politician level tantrum with comments to deflect from the point that you just simply aren't the football savant that you think you are (far from it actually, and no I am not one either). Remember that stats alone do not prove or disprove any apples to oranges comparison.

It's really simple man we are all steelers fans and there's no need to be a jerk just cause someone doesn't agree. There's no need for childish comments just cause other view points or stats or thoughts are presented that might show another side or even god forbid that what you want to be true just isn't at times.

 

[FordFairLane]

When Roethlisberger announced that the upcoming Browns game

You mean have a point that agrees with what you want? I mean I could say that at least Fichtner understood to use the whole field. That alone shoots your whole statistical data down the tube. But you don't want that do you. You want to pick and choose the things that support what you want to believe. Anyone else that says anything that is, might or could be valid is wrong and your gonna get butt hurt and insult them in a back handed way if not straight up. What rich is watching you tell people that they bring nothing intelligent to the conversation yet you discuss things like a 2 year old. When it doesn't fit your narrative you throw a politician level tantrum with comments to deflect from the point that you just simply aren't the football savant that you think you are (far from it actually, and no I am not one either). Remember that stats alone do not prove or disprove any apples to oranges comparison.

It's really simple man we are all steelers fans and there's no need to be a jerk just cause someone doesn't agree. There's no need for childish comments just cause other view points or stats or thoughts are presented that might show another side or even god forbid that what you want to be true just isn't at times.

Here's the facts. Please refute with an actual fact. Mason Rudolph started off better statistically speaking than Kenny Pickett. Could Pickett turn things around and do better? Yes. Does anyone know if he will? No. Arguing about a former inept OC was better than our current inept OC is a straw man argument.

Fact
Rudolph first 130 passes at age 24.06
83/130 897 yards 9 tds 3 ints
Fact
Pickett first 127 passes at age 24.118
87/127 771 yards 2 td 7 int

Those aren't picking and choosing. Those are the FACTUAL DATA AND STATISICS OF BOTH QB'S!

 

[FordFairLane]

A fun fact for "mouth breathers": College isn't the NFL.

Nonetheless, Rudolph started for his last three years at Oklahoma State while averaging over 450 attempts per season, so he had plenty of collegiate experience. Yet another baseless excuse from you.


There sure isn't. And nobody is making an excuse for that particular play, certainly not me. In fact, in another thread, I said this:

"The interceptions were bad, no doubt. But on the last one, I believe Pickett was thinking a bit too much about the clock -- he thought for a split-second about just taking off with the ball, but he feared (I guess) getting tackled in bounds and running out of time, so he tried to force it downfield. Looking at the replay, he could have easily picked up the first down with his legs inside the 20, and gotten out of bounds with about 18 seconds left. He'll learn."

So, no, there weren't 36-38 seconds left, it was 18 seconds, but the fact remains that KP made a poor decision in that situation. No one has said otherwise.

Well, age is age. Mason Rudolph's first NFL throw was at a younger age than Kenny Pickett's. Refute that fact.

You are right I was thinking the play before the snap was at 42 seconds but the clock kept running because Muth was tackled in bounds.

 

[FordFairLane]

Absolutely not. Mason had better protection and was running an O that allowed for deep throws...and for many games when Ben was hurt all he would do was check down. Finally two years ago we saw him air it out in a late season game against the Browns where he had nothing to lose and the Browns had the playoffs locked up. He did well no doubt(because his strength is the deep ball), it's his intermediate route accuracy that is inconsistent. Now imagine him behind this line throwing across the middle......out of the two vet QBs we have he is the worst choice. I would put Mitch back in before the thought even crosses my mind of putting Mason back in. I've seen enough.

Ok, well then let me make my OWN straw man argument. KP has far better weapons. Rudolph had a rookie DJ, Juju, Old McDOnald and the team leader in receiving James Washington while KP has a pro bowler in DJ, Claypool, rookie Phenom Pickens and Freiermuth.

 

[topseed]

Well, age is age. Mason Rudolph's first NFL throw was at a younger age than Kenny Pickett's. Refute that fact.

You are right I was thinking the play before the snap was at 42 seconds but the clock kept running because Muth was tackled in bounds.

Yes, with a full year in the NFL under his belt, Mason Rudolph was 24 years and 59 days old when he threw his first professional pass. While Kenny Pickett was 24 years and 117 days old when he threw his. A difference of a whopping 58 days...irrefutable! Why, that's almost two WHOLE months! Wow!

Man, you are really grasping at straws at this point.

 

[FordFairLane]

Yes, with a full year in the NFL under his belt, Mason Rudolph was 24 years and 59 days old when he threw his first professional pass. While Kenny Pickett was 24 years and 117 days old when he threw his. A difference of a whopping 58 days...irrefutable! Why, that's almost two WHOLE months! Wow!

Man, you are really grasping at straws at this point.

A full year of riding the bench. Pickett had a full extra year of playing time.

I don't think their age is much of a difference. That is why I pointed out how close it was in my original post. The difference is 58 days and 3 pass attempts. The big difference is the 9 vs 2 td passes and the 3 vs 7 int's and the 16% more yardage in the air.

The fact people are arguing that Rudolph didn't start off much better is just laughable. I mean listen to how dumb your argument is.

 

[Superman]

if you can't see the difference in play between Kenny and Mason, you're not watching the same game everyone else is.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

if you can't see the difference in play between Kenny and Mason, you're not watching the same game everyone else is.

Or perhaps you may be viewing the game with a less than impartial lense.

-Mason certainly looked awful compared to pre-injury, Killer-B era, HOF number's, Ben Roethlisberger.

-While Kenny looks "Promising" because we are comparing him to a broken-down Big Ben who couldn't throw further than 15 yards. Not to mention he has a legion of Pitt fans willing to defend him at every turn.

 

[Gildong Sack]

Ok, well then let me make my OWN straw man argument. KP has far better weapons. Rudolph had a rookie DJ, Juju, Old McDOnald and the team leader in receiving James Washington while KP has a pro bowler in DJ, Claypool, rookie Phenom Pickens and Freiermuth.

I wasn't making a straw man argument. I was saying it's apples and oranges and it clearly is. Pouncey, Villanueva, Foster, De Castro....funny how you don't mention the O-line compared to the one Pickett plays behind . Mason had all kinds of time to find open receivers and most times couldn't, that's why he was labeled"one read Mason", but that is not his overall problem, his problem is making multiple reads in the intermediate game and his accuracy in that zone...he is what he is. Apples and oranges..no straw man building here, just straight facts.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

i worry about the kid's demeanor. affable guy being coached by nitwits.

if they keep him in, he's either
1. gonna keep slinging it and take more and more chances trying to hold the ball to extend plays = more picks, a terrible injury. Either way not much results to build on nor learn from - (you learn from success in today's NFL not failure as in Manning's experience. see Herbert, Justin);
or
2. Ken turtles up & gets gun-shy. Starts managing the game. Learns that.

Take him out and risk turning off his competitive nature and emotional vibe; or even stunt his growth in learning the game by disappointing him & letting him watch the suckerific offense make 1 play out of every 10. And of course leaving him in could just as well do both of those things.

idfk.

Steelers' 1st hit on a QB in several decades and they want wring the **** out of the kid his first year in the league?

Untenable situation they got him in. i think back to Ben's development - sure he had magic in spades. But it really was the kick-*** team around him that ingrained the Winner inside him. Vick on Falcons is great example as the foil to the situation that Ben had.

If KP is so dang fragile he can’t handle some adversity then we should probably take a QB in the upcoming not ****** QB class with our top 10 pick he earns us

If he’s our best he should play…
If he’s not our best it’s yet another in a long line of poor coaching decisions to rush him in

 

[Superman]

Or perhaps you may be viewing the game with a less than impartial lense.

-Mason certainly looked awful compared to pre-injury, Killer-B era, HOF number's, Ben Roethlisberger.

-While Kenny looks "Promising" because we are comparing him to a broken-down Big Ben who couldn't throw further than 15 yards. Not to mention he has a legion of Pitt fans willing to defend him at every turn.

allow me to retort

1. I'm not comparing Kenny Pickett to Ben
2. I'm not a Pitt fan at all
3. Kenny's decision making and pocket presence is much better than Mason's
4. Mason's ball sails whereas Kenny's does not
5. Ben absolutely could throw the ball more than 15 yards. With a little less zip than Mason, about on par with Mitch.

 

[Superman]

oh, and Mason looks awful after the first series. Sometimes he can stretch it to the 2nd or 3rd series, but after he's sliding face first on Down's Hill. Bad decisions, zero pocket presence, zero athleticism, so on and so forth.

 

[FordFairLane]

I wasn't making a straw man argument. I was saying it's apples and oranges and it clearly is. Pouncey, Villanueva, Foster, De Castro....funny how you don't mention the O-line compared to the one Pickett plays behind . Mason had all kinds of time to find open receivers and most times couldn't, that's why he was labeled"one read Mason", but that is not his overall problem, his problem is making multiple reads in the intermediate game and his accuracy in that zone...he is what he is. Apples and oranges..no straw man building here, just straight facts.

And it is CLEARLY a better receiving and running back core. He has a zillion times better weapons. So much so that the time difference in offensive line isn't a factor at all anymore.

And you want Pickett throwing more deep balls? He threw 6 over 10 yards and 3 were intercepted. It is the same issues we saw in preseason. Rudolph was the best at throwing the ball down field. The routes ARE there. Watch the tape. I am not a big Canada fan but we do have routes going deep. KP just isn't hitting them.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

allow me to retort

1. I'm not comparing Kenny Pickett to Ben
2. I'm not a Pitt fan at all
3. Kenny's decision making and pocket presence is much better than Mason's
4. Mason's ball sails whereas Kenny's does not
5. Ben absolutely could throw the ball more than 15 yards. With a little less zip than Mason, about on par with Mitch.

Not saying you personally compared anyone to Ben, but when Mason came in, we all were accustomed to a high level of QB play. So he had a MUCH more difficult comp, as compared to Kenny.

I will readily admit that Pickett is VERY comfortable in the pocket than most rookies, and especially Mason. But I am not sure how you can say his ball sails and Kenny's doesn't. Most of Kenny's deep shots have had way too much air under them with little/no zip- Including the 1st INT to Claypool.

The one thing I strongly disagree with you on is Ben's arm strength. Every NFL fan could see that his arm was shot last year (which is understandable considering his surgery).

 

[livingthrudying]

Things I learned today:

Barcode functions in Adobe Illustrator
I like Colby Jack cheese on a sandwich
Ford Fairlane knows everything and your dumb if you think otherwise! (Don't believe me just ask him he will tell you)

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

oh, and Mason looks awful after the first series. Sometimes he can stretch it to the 2nd or 3rd series, but after he's sliding face first on Down's Hill. Bad decisions, zero pocket presence, zero athleticism, so on and so forth.

ok coach,

 

[bermudasteel]

Kenny is a Steeler. So I'll continue to support him.

I want to go on the record.

Berm was not in the Kenny pick before or during the draft. I felt that there were (& I still do) way better franchise options coming out this year.

Oh well. We're stuck now so buckle up and enjoy the, er, ah, ride...

 

[Gildong Sack]

And it is CLEARLY a better receiving and running back core. He has a zillion times better weapons. So much so that the time difference in offensive line isn't a factor at all anymore.

And you want Pickett throwing more deep balls? He threw 6 over 10 yards and 3 were intercepted. It is the same issues we saw in preseason. Rudolph was the best at throwing the ball down field. The routes ARE there. Watch the tape. I am not a big Canada fan but we do have routes going deep. KP just isn't hitting them.

.

Dude...you are really reaching. Running back doesn't matter( See O-line problems) if you can never get the running game established. You can't hit deep routes when guys are constantly in your face. Mason would sit back there looking for the 1 deep route constantly, then check down. Once in a while he would attempt a crossing route throw if it was open by a mile, to JuJU usually. We just disagree..which is fine, but Mason is what he is and that's a mediocre QB with serious flaws in his game.