Steeler Identity

[Vader]

This isn't just about the last game against the Iggles but rather a look at the overall scheme of the Steelers. The Steelers obviously have shifted their thoughts on drafting the past few years. They have gotten away from the power running game on offense and moved to a short passing game. On defense they have moved from a "stop the run first" with big DL and LBers to a "stop the pass" defense with smaller quicker LBs and gap shooting DL.

The problem is this team has no identity. What type of offense do they run? Well sometimes it's a no-huddle.. kind of. It's a hurry up, slow motion kind of offense at times. Whatever it is, it is obviously trying to be a more passing oriented team. So why do they go out and get a power running back in Blount but let their top 2 WRs just walk away? Don't misunderstand me. I loved the Blount signing. But he doesn't really fit their philosophy any more. They need a McCoy type RB if they are going to use the type of offense they say they want.

I don't understand their personnel decisions based upon what they want to do. They want to stop the pass and are ok with giving up a few more running yards. So they draft smaller LBs like Spence and Shazier. Ok I get that. But if that's the case then how can you not draft CBs? One CB in the 5th round? And it isn't just this year. They draft Thomas who is a hitter at SS. He isn't a ball hawk. He is a dinosaur before he ever hits the field. He is a faster Ryan Clark. They also haven't drafted a CB any higher than the 5th round since 2011. WTF are they doing? The problem is that teams are passing all over you and you combat this by passing on almost every CB in 3 drafts? Do they really think they can beat NE, Den, etc.. with 5th round CBs and a faster ILB? Really? Ike isn't a #1 CB any more. And there is no help coming.

If the team is really dedicated to stopping the pass and passing the ball more on offense then why are they drafting like this? Why are they signing FAs that don't fit what they are trying to do? I just don't get it.

 

[slashsteel]

does seem at times to be a dartboard with aimless throwing

with trying to find something that works and nothing is sticking

hoping for the best, but I would love yeah to see them develop some sort of identity

 

[Drink IRON City]

Great post Vader, thank you. Definitely need an identity. It seems like the slow starts are pinned to trying to figure out our identity, each and every year. How about acquiring one and build upon it. Draft to build upon it, play to build upon it, PLAN to build upon it. Hell, in the 70s it was an easy identity, 80s had theirs too. 90s & early millennium got theirs. Seems last 8ish years we been struggling to know who we are. I'm all for an identity, lets get it & roll.


Salute the nation

 

[SteelBuckeye]

At one point I thought "OK, they are trying to be that team on offense where since everyone is gearing up to stop the pass, we'll build a strong run game. Wear you down and then pass all over your happy *****." Today ... eh, not so much. We do have sort of an offensive identity under Haley it's "We're not very good until Ben gets to use the no huddle". That's our identity.
On defense. Naw, nada. Can't think of any distinguishing characteristics that say "THIS is who WE are".

 

[SteelerSask2]

I watched Seattle and Chicago last night and Seattle is playing on a whole other evolutionary plane then the Steeelrs and frankly the entire league. They absolutely abused a top ten offense and their physical run game sets up embarrassingly easy pass plays. They have gone counter culture of all the five wide short passing game **** and have the league by the balls. More importantly they have a coach that pays attention to the smallest of details and there is no drop in intensity. They looked like they were playing a big mid season Sunday night matchup last night. The Steeelrs ****** slept walked Thurs. You can talk preseason all you want. You can't turn on that intensity.

 

[Spike]

The identity is going to have to come on offense, the front 7 on defense is the worst we've had in 20 years, no pass rush and seems they can't stop the run or the pass.

and there's no miracle fixes on the horizon

 

[Punxsutawney]

I watched Seattle and Chicago last night and Seattle is playing on a whole other evolutionary plane then the Steeelrs and frankly the entire league. They absolutely abused a top ten offense and their physical run game sets up embarrassingly easy pass plays. They have gone counter culture of all the five wide short passing game **** and have the league by the balls. More importantly they have a coach that pays attention to the smallest of details and there is no drop in intensity. They looked like they were playing a big mid season Sunday night matchup last night. The Steeelrs ****** slept walked Thurs. You can talk preseason all you want. You can't turn on that intensity.

The Seahawks, with Russell Wilson, remind a lot of what the Steelers were in Roethlisberger's first couple seasons: a power running offense, with an accurate young QB who excels at extending the play and executing play action, and an absurdly fast and physical defense.

They definitely have a concrete identity, something the Steelers have basically lacked for pretty much all of Tomlin's tenure.

For a time, they wanted Roethlisberger to be Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning, carrying the team on his back for 30+ points most weeks, but he just isn't that type of QB. I think realizing that, they brought Haley in to help develop a more balanced offense, but they remain totally impotent in developing a consistently good running game to help Roethlisberger move the chains and score in the redzone. As a result of that, they're basically forced to randomly sling **** against the wall on offensive each week and see what sticks.

They have a pretty consistent schematic identity defensively (3-4 zone blitz-based scheme). The issue is that they have been increasingly drafting personnel that do not seem to fit the scheme, but rather the Tampa 2 scheme to which Tomlin is partial. It's pretty reflective of a proverbial identity crisis to me.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

I don't understand their personnel decisions based upon what they want to do. They want to stop the pass and are ok with giving up a few more running yards. But if that's the case then how can you not draft CBs? One CB in the 5th round? And it isn't just this year. They draft Thomas who is a hitter at SS. He isn't a ball hawk. He is a dinosaur before he ever hits the field. He is a faster Ryan Clark. They also haven't drafted a CB any higher than the 5th round since 2011. WTF are they doing? The problem is that teams are passing all over you and you combat this by passing on almost every CB in 3 drafts? Ike isn't a #1 CB any more. And there is no help coming.
.

wow,, I agree! I have said it earlier , saying it again,, if ike needed to take a pay cut based on his performance,, why isn't there another CB competing for his position.? Mccain was brought in FA but was labeled worst cb in the league last year. Richardson, who may not make the practice squad. Last year it was Terry Hawthorne in the 5th round.. Well great pick,, he isn't on the team or in the league, he is trying to play in Canada. I don't get it either. League is putting premiums on pass rushers and shut down corners... We may have one in Worilds,, but we have no ball hawks or shut down corners. Remember how woodson shut down a whole side of the field? ahhh that was so nice.

 

[SteelerSask2]

To some extent the new CBA unintentionally king made the Seahawks into a possible modern dynasty, by way of them paying their super bowl winning qb less than a million dollars. I'd venture that has not happened since the mid 80s. However, what I really see is the Steelers grasping for trends instead of setting them.

 

[Vader]

Very good discussion. I appreciate the responses. I think this year will tell a lot about the Steelers and their organizational talent. IMHO there is a disconnect between the scouts, FO and the coaches. Something is wrong somewhere. Every year Tombert is elated that they got "their" guys. And almost every year we are asking "WTF are you doing?" I can't think of how many times I've sat and thought about why they are drafting like they are when they play the offense and defense they are playing.

Again, I really like Blount, Shazier, Tuitt etc. I also didn't like Sanders and am glad he is gone. I just think that their personnel decisions have been strange at times and doesn't fit with what they say they want to do. We'll see this coming season if the changes they have made are really going to translate to the field.

 

[jitter77]

The league has evolved into a quick passing scheme for the most part. That scheme has been the achillies heel of this team for as long as I can remember. We also do not have the talent we used to have and the problem is amplified. I think the shazier pick was an attempt to help the problem and close off the short middle. I dont mind the pick, but they should have looked for cb / olb help somewhere. Say what you want, but there is no way the coaches can be happy with how jarvis has looked. To this point Michael Sam has shown more than Jarvis which is sad to me. We are going to have to build the D from scratch again, starting with the D-line. Hopefully McCullers will work out, but that is asking a lot

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Our identity is an easy team to beat.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

wow Charles, youre a damn genius.

 

[Supersteeler]

Having a power running game cannot be overestimated. The Steelers used to punish defenses so badly that they were mailing it in by the 2nd half. They beat them up and wore them out while at the same time keeping their own defense off the field and fresh. Would be great to get that going again somehow. Maybe we just don't have the horses on the O Line anymore. We sure as hell don't have any Alan Faneca's. Hell I'd settle for a Duvall Love or two.

 

[Drink IRON City]

With Bell & Blunt, I thought we were developing a power running game. Like some, It isn't just a definite identity. We have to be able to pass and move the ball quickly, thus the no huddle. But if we can pound, mis a little, SCORE, then we would have a start. I don't want us to just pound or just pass. It needs to be as close to a 50 / 50 as possible. I read somewhere its a very fine line, if you are 21/2% either way, the defense can on ly guess right about 30% of the time. A 2 1/2 to 4% either way, the defense becomes about 50% correct on guess. if around 8%differential run or pass, the defense gets around 85% correct. That is on field anticipation thus the high call for balance, in the offense. If you have the horses, the defense guess won't matter, but todays NFL doesn't let teams aquire that type of team (time studs are with team).


Salute the nation

 

[Wingman]

I really hate to be the one defending the tombert vs Vaders post which like most of them very accurate but let me interject this into the discussion. The steelers keep trying for best player available or best value at the pick if you will. We have some guys that look pretty good for rookies this year. In past years we have had a bunch of guys that did not work out that well. As to corner back I believe there was one we were looking at in the first round and he was taken ahead of our position. Can't remember the kids name but I thought he had trained with Ike in the off season. Shazier feel to us and they thought he was a better value than the next corner. Next round Tuitt who looks like a real keeper and not a player you pass on for the corners that were left. Our next pick is at the end of the third and the corners that are left are nothing to write home about, there is reason to think we can get just as good as what is available now later.

Now if you look at guys like Jarvis and Hood and a few others that have seemed to be less than good value at their position it is no wonder we have no corners. We have had to draft the same position over and over and still not filled the spot. When trying to find the best player it is possible to miss some positions because the way they fall. I think Jarvis was a reach. We could have drafted something else and might have been better off. When things like that happen it is sometimes tough to fill a spot. We have had I think 2 years that none of the draft picks are on the team so it would be reasonable to say we lost 6 players just from those two years.

I know this does not defend the bad choices that were made in the past but because of them I think it explains the apparent lack of focus of the team where draft picks are concerned.

 

[Steelerfan]

Identity is the responsibility of leadership, both on the field (veteran players) and on the sidelines & front office. This team has ineffective leadership in all three aspects. Short of blowing things up and starting over (which is not the "steeler way"), here we go with another 8-8 season.

 

[Vincent]

Seattle is playing on a whole other evolutionary plane then the Steelers and frankly the entire league.

Its identity theft. They stole ours. Revenge for SBXL.

That's who we were before the current "administration". Now we're just flailing around. The standard is the standard.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Great points all around. They have added a good amount of talent through the draft recently, but a lot of these players haven't maxed out or have had a lower than anticipated ceiling. The lack of identity could be a big part of that. I accepted a long time ago that the offense was without an identity, but the defense has now fallen into that trap as well.

 

[steelpastor]

Its identity theft. They stole ours. Revenge for SBXL.

That's who we were before the current "administration". Now we're just flailing around. The standard is the standard.

Vincent,

I agree.


But the avatar? LOL... NOT cool!

.

 

[Vincent]

But the avatar? LOL... NOT cool! .

Hey, its who they are. Remember Ryan Clark running his mouth about all the stoners on the team and we don't know who they are? This incident with our presumed backfield tandem indicates that its OK and they don't need to take their business any more seriously than that. The whole team plays that way.

What's the difference between the Reefers and the Seahawks? We have 5 #1s and 3 #2s on our defense and they can't get off the field. Seattle mauls everybody they play with lesser talent. What's the difference? It all starts at the top.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

"They are who we thought they are" ~Dennis Green

 

[SteelChip]

Good article on the defensive part of this discussion was on the Steelers Depot this morning,,,

It all starts with this Fanpost comment...

The defense played their nickel the entire time the starting defense was in, there was only twice where they brought in the base defense in the first half, on a 3rd and 1 and on a goal line play. They played a 2-5-4 ( with Troy acting as a fifth linebacker playing in the box), the two down linemen were Heyward and Tuitt for the most part and the Eagles had great success running the ball against two down lineman, which isn’t surprising. This also left Worlids and Jones against the tackles 1 on 1 for the most part. The troubling part is that they played nickel and still couldn’t stop the passing game.

The fact that they played the entire first half in the same exact defensive formation shows, at least to me, that they were experimenting with it. They wanted to see these guys execute that defense, which they did at times but when they didn't it went real bad. So there wasn't much of a game plan here but basically working in the nickel defense. Hopefully they got what they wanted and can work the kinks out because its tough to stop the run in a two down lineman set. But you would think they could stop the run better in their base 3-4 defense. Then work on stopping the pass, does that make sense?

Alright then, that comment feeds perfectly into this article...
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2014/08/steelers-defense-broken-fix/

...like Vinny says "What's the difference? It all starts at the top."

 

[ZonaBurgh]

So is the 2-5-4 the new base defense? Or is it just an experiment like Tomlin telling Suisham not to kick the ball through the end zone so coverage could be tested?

If they're just toying with all of this, hope the team is ready for Sept. 7

 

[RollRed]

I am of the opinion that many of this team's problems stem from the coach. The players just don't seem to be responding to him. I know one thing for sure... being buddy buddy with your players does not work in the NFL... and I'm afraid that's exactly what's going on here. As soon as a player thinks he has some extra leeway to underachieve because the coach won't be right up his *** as soon as he does, in many cases that's what he's going to do. Don't get me wrong, there are self-starters in the league that don't need the pressure of knowing they're a **** up or two from being out on their ***, but I think most do need it. All the talent in the world won't make you a good football player on the NFL if you slack off... even a little bit. Talent alone will keep you on the field in high school and college, but not in the pros.